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Great write up on Colombia ThanosWasRight, it's nice to see actual numbers regarding Colombian public opinion. When I was a kid. when I would go visit my grandparents in Santander, I wasn't allowed to leave the house after sundown because of the violence. One time I ran outside after dark to say goodbye to my cousin and my mother had a panic attack because she thought that I had gotten kidnapped in the 2 minutes I was out of her sight. Another time I walked from my grandparents' neighborhood to my cousin's house because he had borrowed my ninja turtles and I wanted them back. By the time my grandparents found me they had called in anybody they knew with a gun to show up at their house in a show of force to scare the ransomers into giving me up without a fuss. I was 8 years old at the time, which would have been around 91-92. I didn't understand what the fuss was about, I walked all over town back in America. When I moved to Bogotá in 2011 it was like night and day, you could even walk around La Candelaria after sundown and you probably wouldn't get mugged (probably). My first week there I got so drunk from aguardiente that I stumbled out of the club, vomited all over the curb, and passed out next to the club. Someone picked me up, put me in a cab, and the taxi driver even pulled over to let me puke put the window and accepted my $10USD after dropping me off at my uncle's house. The next morning my aunt asked me what the gently caress happened last night and I told her. She was absolutely mortified and told me that not even five years prior I would probably be dead in a ditch, and I still believe her. I wonder if this weekend the protests are gonna calm down due to the Immaculate Conception being kinda a big deal in Colombia what with Día de las velitas and all.
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Dec 5, 2019 21:30
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Both are Presidents! Both were elected! They both use media such as TV and the Internet! They are absolutely the same holy poo poo this stuff quote:Both are reactionaries in the purest sense, conjuring up an imagined golden past. Mr Bolsonaro lionises Brazil’s military dictatorship of 1964-85. amlo, who stresses that he is a democrat, believes that everything was better in Mexico before a turn to “neoliberalism” in the 1980s. exactly the same thing, really In passing I like how one is "Mister Bolsonaro", while the other is just amlo, not even in uppercase. (Technically, it is typed in uppercase, but with a stylistic tweak on it that converts it to lowercase.) quote:They are believers, and have inserted religion into the political discourse of hitherto secular states. Mr Bolsonaro, a Pentecostal protestant, campaigned on the slogan “Brazil above all, God above everyone”. amlo implicitly compares himself to Christ, who was “sacrificed …for defending the poor”. "one wants to establish a theocracy, the other wants to help the poor: again, exactly the same thing" combined with just flat out claiming AMLO believes himself to be the Second Coming of Christ. quote:Both defend traditional family values, though they see different threats to them: left-wing political correctness in Mr Bolsonaro’s case, neoliberalism for amlo.
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Dec 5, 2019 22:15
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MikeStmria posted:Yeah, I in fact voted for a different party with different views. It's well known that there are issues with petrol and fracking and all this. I read once that This analysis in my opinion is quite poor. I would like to see someone with a proper analysis on AMLO. And naturally yes, AMLO is going to give poor people money. That's the goal of leftists to improve the lives of poor people. I think Colombian, being amongst the most conservative of countries in South America after Chile and maybe Paraguay has a really interesting situation here when it comes to giving money to poor people. The entire country is built on a subsidy system based on the class of neighborhood you live in from the cost of electricity to natural gas, cable and internet. There is also a program similar to Lula's family handout program called "Familias en Accion" that provides cash money to lower income families with children, alongside other programs that provide cash handouts to single mothers. There's also a entirely free public health insurance program called the SISBEN. Mind you that is the poorest of the nations medical program with long waiting times for operations and very little funding for drug access. Not to mention there are quite a few housing subsidies and Santos and Uribe put a lot of money into building public housing that seemed to be quite successful.
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Dec 5, 2019 23:08
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Good post
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Dec 5, 2019 23:55
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MikeStmria posted:Adding to this, the south part of Mexico is way more poor than the north part. In a note I read time ago it said that it was becuase the south has all the resources they need, water, food, natural resources. While the north parth has the lack of everything you need. So the north people develops and looks for ways to improve, while the south, sits and waits for the next orange to be ready for pick up from the tree. Oh OK so "welfare queen" poo poo
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Dec 6, 2019 01:38
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Oh OK so "welfare queen" poo poo This is a theory called tropical languor, which the British developed in order to assert the superiority of northern europeans over the lazy and indolent people they violently butchered on the way to their global empire. It's ironic to see it be deployed by people from a country that itself was colonized by violent Europeans.
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Dec 6, 2019 01:44
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:This is a theory called tropical languor, which the British developed in order to assert the superiority of northern europeans over the lazy and indolent people they violently butchered on the way to their global empire. It's ironic to see it be deployed by people from a country that itself was colonized by violent Europeans. Is it? Or is it sensible given they were successfully colonized? Anyway bottom line that guy's opinions are trash.
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Dec 6, 2019 01:49
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One thing I forgot to mention about Uribe is that he is someone that comes from outside the traditional powers that have governed Colombia. Who are specifically the political Bogota Oligarchy. In general there have been few Colombian Presidents that were not from a political dynasty. The Bogota Oligarchy has been consistently been able to win the presidency and control the most important parts of Colombian Politics for well over 50 years. When Uribe won the presidency he broke a 50 year duopoly on the presidency that was shared between the center-left Liberal party and the right wing Conservative party. The result of his presidency was the destruction of the two party system and the opening of the country to a multitude of parties. Congress is currently made up of 17 different ones. The Bogota Oligarchy did not exactly like him for that. Uribe's minister of defense Juan Manuel Santos, and his chosen successor (and member of the Bogota Oligarchy) who won the following presidential election ended up betraying him, because he believed himself to be above the dirty handedness of Uribe's tactics. He prided himself as being a cultured neoliberal and diplomat and that is the main reason for the peace accord with the FARC.
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Dec 6, 2019 02:17
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That dude just evoked environmental determinism to explain social inequality, what the gently caress.
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Dec 6, 2019 02:18
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Is it? Or is it sensible given they were successfully colonized? Occasionally Useful Trivia there is a reason pretty much every country has a north/south culture divide. it is because latitude effects agriculture, and pretty much everything about civilization and society is built around when the harvest comes in and what we have to do to make it do so. as a result, across the northern hemisphere, from England to Italy to Mexico, it is generally agreed that northerners are more industrious than the lazy-rear end southerners, who sit around fanning themselves in the sun all day, with the stereotype predictably inverting once you cross the equator. (because they have a longer and more productive growing season, and as a direct result don't need to bother busting their rear end all day to make their fields productive. no poo poo New Englanders were more industrious than the gadflies in Charleston, getting wheat out of cold rocks takes a lot more work than throwing down some tobacco seeds and calling it a day.)
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Dec 6, 2019 02:23
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Dias posted:That dude just evoked environmental determinism to explain social inequality, what the gently caress. It seems to me that when it comes to talking to Central Americans and Mexicans they have no loving clue about their politics and don't understand their own countries or how they work. They don't understand the reasons for poverty. The level of political education in South America tends to be quite high. Or at least in nations like Chile, Peru, Ecuador and Colombia people don't have any illusions about this poo poo. In Ecuador, Peru, and Colombia there is an almost universal reverence for agricultural workers, farmers, and the productive regions of the country. These being tropical nations those tend to be everywhere mind you.. Denigrating regional cultural groups as poor, lazy and stupid due to being farmers is something I have never loving seen in South America.
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Dec 6, 2019 02:25
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Oh OK so "welfare queen" poo poo That’s why the military had to invade those greedy zapistas hording all the oranges.
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Dec 6, 2019 03:12
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:Occasionally Useful Trivia Oh yeah you have this poo poo a lot here in Brazil with the south/southeast vs north/northeast discourse. It also has a lot of race in the mix since the Southern States consider themselves whiter due to massive late 1800s immigration while the Northeast had large slave plantations and indigenous communities.
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Dec 6, 2019 03:20
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Oh OK so "welfare queen" poo poo Maybe not coincidentally, afaik the southern parts of Mexico are demographically more indigenous than the north.
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Dec 6, 2019 03:20
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Related (from Bacurau) https://twitter.com/dcucomics/status/1201154867861098499
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Dec 6, 2019 12:15
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Elias_Maluco posted:Related (from Bacurau) That was a strange movie and I can't say I really liked it despite initially thinking the premise was good.
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Dec 6, 2019 16:46
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100YrsofAttitude posted:That was a strange movie and I can't say I really liked it despite initially thinking the premise was good. It was one of my favorite movies of the year but I'm honestly heavily biased as a Nordestino
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Dec 6, 2019 16:55
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Plutonis posted:It was one of my favorite movies of the year but I'm honestly heavily biased as a Nordestino It definitely had its moments but it felt a bit disjointed overall. Still, I'm always happy when we get a movie from the region over here, they don't come very often.
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Dec 6, 2019 17:02
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Plutonis posted:It was one of my favorite movies of the year but I'm honestly heavily biased as a Nordestino Mine too, and Im from São Paulo. Great movie, weird, fun, and very relevant to what we are living
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Dec 6, 2019 17:33
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ThanosWasRight posted:This analysis in my opinion is quite poor. I would like to see someone with a proper analysis on AMLO. I agree that it was a poor analysis. I am no where close a politic expert or sociologist or anything. Just regular citizen, and Mexico tends to not follow too much on Politics. In fact we know who our president is gonna be and "research" them in the 3 months or so duiring their electoral campaign. Trying to research here about politics is stupidly hard as 98% of the news agency owners are politicians. So you get to read how great they are or how much they suck, hardly an in between. From my point of view, his goal is not to imrpove their lifes. They are his main supporters, giving them money is ensuring that they keep voting for him. I found this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ti-protest-laws It might not be a full analisis, but if you start the research from there and what he has done, and what he is doing, you can see why a lot of people in mexico are mad.
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Dec 6, 2019 17:54
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MikeStmria posted:From my point of view, his goal is not to imrpove their lifes. They are his main supporters, giving them money is ensuring that they keep voting for him. That dastardly AMLO, winning votes by giving his poor supporters money that they can use to improve their lives.
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Dec 6, 2019 18:17
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Yeah, of course the poor are going to vote for politicians helps them be less poor That sounds like the same kind of bullshit we heard in Brazil, about PT buying the vote of the ignorant masses with Bolsa Família
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Dec 6, 2019 18:22
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So Morales is a dictator and now AMLO is? Sheesh these strongmen keep popping up everywhere!
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Dec 6, 2019 18:27
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vyelkin posted:That dastardly AMLO, winning votes by giving his poor supporters money that they can use to improve their lives. Would love to see that this was true, but they do not improve their lives with. Instead of looking for better educations or oportunites. They use it to buy drugs, buy the newest iPhone, instead of actually using to improve their quality of life. He also has a program called NiNi program, in which you receive 3600 mxn/mo if you don't work or study. Which is far more than the minimum wage of a worker that works 48 hours per week. As I said a few posts above, I think that his idea to improve the QoL of the poor is great, the approach of doing it is what is terrible and not working. Right now there is an amnesty law being discussed https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/english/mexicos-amnesty-law-could-fail That I have mixed feelings about. I will rather see the justice system improved than some one being pardoned because "poor him", when there are people in the same situations that work their rear end off and do not commit crimes. Mexican political experts consider this law to gain more votes for his upcoming (new thing in Mexico) mid term election, where "we" choose if he stays another 6 years, or he gets removed. Mexico Constitution states that you can only be president for one term. Which is 6 years. He just started his second year in the office and mid term will be next year apparently. I do not consider AMLO a dictator, he is just not smart enough to get to that point. I do consider him a power hungry person, but after all he is a politician so its somewhat expected. What I think AMLO is, is a person full of vendettas against "the people that took his first 2 wins off his hands" and he wants to gently caress everyone he can and doesn't likes. He has a special hate for people that has something, literally something. He made a law, that ofc got approved inmediatly. That if he suspects that you have been getting "rich" in ilicit ways he can seize everything you have before even starting a proper investigation. If after the investigation, that could take years, they find you not guilty, they will pay you back what they seized from you, except they will pay what they think what got seized is worth and not its actual worth. You don't get your stuff back.
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Dec 6, 2019 18:51
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Also aren't Mexican presidents term-limited to a single term? So AMLO can't exactly be buying future votes since he's already president, unless... *scary music starts* you consider abolishing term limits so that the popular leftist can continue making poor people less poor instead of being replaced by a neoliberal empty suit.
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Dec 6, 2019 18:51
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MikeStmria posted:Would love to see that this was true, but they do not improve their lives with. Instead of looking for better educations or oportunites. They use it to buy drugs, buy the newest iPhone, instead of actually using to improve their quality of life. lmao it's nice to see that apparently conservatives are the same no matter where you go.
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Dec 6, 2019 18:55
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MikeStmria posted:Would love to see that this was true, but they do not improve their lives with. Instead of looking for better educations or oportunites. They use it to buy drugs, buy the newest iPhone, instead of actually using to improve their quality of life. Really? Even if they are buying an iphone, having a smartphone is a huge help in life in general. Just having access to the internet gives you a leg-up in many ways. Seems a bit excessive to just go "Dumb poors, they don't even know how to spend money well!"
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Dec 6, 2019 18:57
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MikeStmria posted:Would love to see that this was true, but they do not improve their lives with. Instead of looking for better educations or oportunites. They use it to buy drugs, buy the newest iPhone, instead of actually using to improve their quality of life. Ah yes, welfare queens. Glad to see that trope about the lazy undeserving poor cuts across all borders. quote:As I said a few posts above, I think that his idea to improve the QoL of the poor is great, the approach of doing it is what is terrible and not working. From the article you posted the amnesty sounds like a way to get wrongly-convicted people out of jail who were put there by corrupt cops, and the only reason they think it might fail is because it wouldn't free everyone in that situation, only people in federal prisons. That sounds pretty good to me even as a half-measure. It certainly doesn't sound like rewarding people who committed crimes compared to those who "work their rear end off and do not commit crimes". quote:I do not consider AMLO a dictator, he is just not smart enough to get to that point. I do consider him a power hungry person, but after all he is a politician so its somewhat expected. What I think AMLO is, is a person full of vendettas against "the people that took his first 2 wins off his hands" and he wants to gently caress everyone he can and doesn't likes. That sounds like civil asset forfeiture, which I agree is complete bullshit but if that's hating people with wealth then every police department in the United States hates people with wealth.
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Dec 6, 2019 18:58
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Every single refugee I know has a smartphone. Alot of the "toys" they have are actually extremely useful for an extremely deprived person. Also it doubles a computer and a television!
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Dec 6, 2019 19:00
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and a radio
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Dec 6, 2019 19:02
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Zurakara posted:Every single refugee I know has a smartphone. Alot of the "toys" they have are actually extremely useful for an extremely deprived person. Also it doubles a computer and a television! And smart phones can be had for cheaper than a tv or dedicated computer in many places.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:02
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100YrsofAttitude posted:Really? Even if they are buying an iphone, having a smartphone is a huge help in life in general. Just having access to the internet gives you a leg-up in many ways. Seems a bit excessive to just go "Dumb poors, they don't even know how to spend money well!" I believe there is a big difference between having internet access (government already gives free tablets if you go to gov schools) and "needing" the newest iPhone 11 Pro Max to get access to it. I don't think I said they don't know how to spend their money, is just what their social media pics show (which is another debate if true or not but lets just assume its half true and from experience of friends that I have that get under this programs wing) vyelkin posted:Also aren't Mexican presidents term-limited to a single term? So AMLO can't exactly be buying future votes since he's already president, unless... *scary music starts* you consider abolishing term limits so that the popular leftist can continue making poor people less poor instead of being replaced by a neoliberal empty suit. He says its a stupid law that has sunk the country in the neo-liberalisim we live in and its what loving up everything. vyelkin posted:Ah yes, welfare queens. Glad to see that trope about the lazy undeserving poor cuts across all borders. As I said I have mixed feelings, while for me it seems like a good idea even for the people who got convicted for the petty crimes. Mexico Corruption is into soo drat high levels that a murderer could pay to make it look like he just stole an apple from a selfservices store. That is my issue. Also the law states that its to pardon people that have commited abortion. But the government and AMLO (for some reason no one calls him president, unless on wierd ocassions) have stated multiple times that they are not gonna make it obligatory for states to make abortion legal. So each state has its own law. And as this link says it doesn't involves anything but Federal Prision. So to me it is like a white elephant. Not sure if I am explaining myself on this.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:15
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MikeStmria posted:Would love to see that this was true, but they do not improve their lives with. Instead of looking for better educations or oportunites. They use it to buy drugs, buy the newest iPhone, instead of actually using to improve their quality of life. Oh my loving god
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Dec 6, 2019 19:17
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MikeStmria posted:Would love to see that this was true, but they do not improve their lives with. Instead of looking for better educations or oportunites. They use it to buy drugs, buy the newest iPhone, instead of actually using to improve their quality of life. lol You would be a good bolsonarista Anyway, do you have any numbers to back your assertion that the poor are buying drugs and iphone 11s with assistance money?
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Dec 6, 2019 19:22
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I did some cursory research and about 40% of Mexico's prison population are pre-trial detainees. You're buying into the same discourse that led Bolsonaro to be elected in Brazil. Most people in prison aren't bloodthirsty criminals, they're petty criminals or just people that were at the wrong time in the wrong place. Brazil's prison population spiked as soon as they loosened up the definition for "drug trafficking" while making it a felony, so you have way too many people just rotting behind bars because of pretty minor crimes. Of course, most of those people are poor and black too.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:30
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People still consider owning smart phones a luxury? I just got back from Kenya and Uganda and you can go to the shanty town slums and almost everyone still owns some type of Android phone. Smart phones aren't that much of a luxury anymore since they are so cheap to make.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:38
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Elias_Maluco posted:lol I don't have numbers, I only have the media images(That as I stated before can be an arguable proof since we can't be sure how true they are) and my personal friends experience on using it. This are the type of images you can find  There is a Twitter thread with lots of info and more images on the miss use of it but its in spanish. Then again, as I stated in my initial post ITT I got interested in here, not to defend or proof my vs AMLO position, but to know what the world thinks and sees on AMLO.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:42
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I'm all for taking about difficult discussions, but not one of those images show people buying anything.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:45
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Jesus Christ look at those brown freeloaders buying luxurious stuff with taxpayers' money! Can you imagine the political elite doing the same??
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Dec 6, 2019 19:48
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Dias posted:I did some cursory research and about 40% of Mexico's prison population are pre-trial detainees. You're buying into the same discourse that led Bolsonaro to be elected in Brazil. Most people in prison aren't bloodthirsty criminals, they're petty criminals or just people that were at the wrong time in the wrong place. Brazil's prison population spiked as soon as they loosened up the definition for "drug trafficking" while making it a felony, so you have way too many people just rotting behind bars because of pretty minor crimes. Of course, most of those people are poor and black too. This is true, mexico is flooded with people waiting for trials and takes years. I have read that there are times where there are about 14 people living in a single cell. Mexico laws need a revamp we have been using lawas made in 1917 if I'm not remembering wrong. There has been very few additions to this laws. Which I believe might be causing major issues. As example in Mexico you having 0.1mg of weed is the same for the law as you had 1 ton. Both are considered crimes against the health and that you had intention to distribute. I think recently some people is trying to move ropes to make a personal consumtion ammount. So that you dont get as hosed as an actual dealer, but you can still go to jail for possesion. To me this is stupid, if you are a guy smoking that is minding his own bussines and not doing harm, what the gently caress you care if he is smoking. On the other side, if you are smoking and are doing mayhem, then even with personal amounts you need to get a bit hosed. I read a lot of how US justice system is so poo poo, but oh God, you have no idea how lovely things can be in coutries like mine regarding justice.
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Dec 6, 2019 19:49
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