[Epstein] Hello madda / Hello fadda / Gotta syndrome / Called Havana!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Epstein] Hello madda / Hello fadda / Gotta syndrome / Called Havana!

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taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

poo poo POST MALONE posted:

toys r us had a mascot named Geoffrey. was he mossad?

Literally almost everyone is a mossad asset. What can I say, they really are the best at this game.

# ? Dec 5, 2019 21:07

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# ? May 24, 2024 05:20

inferis: Dec 30, 2003

Still can�t stop thinking about like six separate publications publishing editorials comparing Epstein to Sandra Bland to prove that suicides are normal and common in prisons.

# ? Dec 5, 2019 21:08

inferis: Dec 30, 2003

comparing epstein to Sandra bland is like if they brought up darren Wilson�s acquittal to argue that police brutality isn�t a problem

# ? Dec 5, 2019 21:11

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

poo poo POST MALONE posted:

toys r us had a mascot named Geoffrey. was he mossad?

do giraffes have hyoid bones

# ? Dec 5, 2019 21:14

Harold Stassen: Jan 24, 2016

taqueso posted:

Literally almost everyone is a mossad asset. What can I say, they really are the best at this game.

I am a Mossad asset (a mossasset if you will) and you are all going down!!! :twisted:

everyone who failed to get this thread gassed: I will see you in my office (my office is a helicopter over the sea)

# ? Dec 5, 2019 22:26

Regulus74: Jul 26, 2007

Mariana Horchata posted:

Jeffrey Epstein

# ? Dec 5, 2019 22:53

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

inferis posted:

Still can�t stop thinking about like six separate publications publishing editorials comparing Epstein to Sandra Bland to prove that suicides are normal and common in prisons.

way more than 6 if you look at my post history itt

# ? Dec 5, 2019 22:57

Eat This Glob: Jan 14, 2008; God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Who will wipe this blood off us? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent?

lol reminds me I was watching jeopardy on netflix (sorry for the self tweet, it's where I have the image available easily) and hyoid bone was a clue lol

https://twitter.com/RecreationalAn1/status/1201633895898370048?s=20

# ? Dec 6, 2019 01:59

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Helsing posted:

It is possible that this all started with Wexner and that Epstein's time at the Dalton School and Bear Sterns were just the sort of weird coincidences that happened back in the 70s. Especially since Wexner has his own weird links to the shadowy world of the Bronfmans, the Canadian bootlegging dynasty who got rich working with Meyer Lansky during prohibition. So yeah not only did Wexner have money and access to women he also had connections to the world of organized crime.

My problem with this explanation is that even if we ignore all the odd circumstantial evidence indicating Epstein had a connection with some kind of intelligence agency, we still have to somehow explain how he gained protection from prosecution. He reportedly became an informant for the FBI and this may be what Acosta meant when he said that Epstein "belonged to intelligence" but the question still remains: why would he get this deal? Why did the federal government seemingly go out of its way to provide a fig-leaf of an excuse for his ridiculous 13 month prison sentence? None of this definitively proves anything but it sure is weird.

Similarly, why was Epstein able to operate in plain sight for so long, even in the presence of secret service agents. Were the CIA, FBI and NSA were all completely uninterested in Epstein's behaviour over the years? If he was truly not in any way working with them or under their approval then his behaviour would seem to constitute a serious risk to America's international security, yet the FBI protected him. It's possible he just greased all the right palms and that general incompetence and communication failures between agencies let Epstein continuously slip through the cracks but that's hardly an airtight story itself.

I think it's reasonable he had at least some level of contacts with at least one intelligence service by the time of his first arrest, I'm just not particularly convinced they were responsible for his rise - iirc his pops had connections at the Dalton school which explains that adequately, rich people have done dumber and weirder things than hire their kid's favorite teacher for entry level hedge fund flunkeying, and from there him getting in good with Wexner (possibly in the course of Epstein's money crimes, or possibly just contemporaneously) isn't unreasonable, and we're off.

# ? Dec 6, 2019 02:18

Bulgakov: Mar 8, 2009; рукописи не горят

Atrocious Joe posted:

do giraffes have hyoid bones

that�s a whole lot of neck

# ? Dec 6, 2019 02:40

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

Fun fact, giraffes can't hang themselves without breaking their hyoid bone, it's physically impossible.

# ? Dec 6, 2019 02:45

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Giraffrey Epstein

# ? Dec 6, 2019 03:25

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

gradenko_2000 posted:

Giraffrey Epstein

# ? Dec 6, 2019 03:27

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

where ghislaine maxwell

# ? Dec 6, 2019 04:12

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

Al! posted:

where ghislaine maxwell

She inexplicably fell off a boat. It's quite sad, really.

# ? Dec 6, 2019 04:13

OregonDonor: Mar 12, 2010

I don�t have the patience to find it, but special commendations to the goon who parodied the MASH theme (�Suicide Is Painless�) with Epstein.

and old men break their neck bones with their knees

In all of my cracking and pinging I have not laughed harder at something Epstein-related

# ? Dec 6, 2019 05:45

Torpor: Oct 20, 2008; .. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

GreyjoyBastard posted:

I think it's reasonable he had at least some level of contacts with at least one intelligence service by the time of his first arrest, I'm just not particularly convinced they were responsible for his rise - iirc his pops had connections at the Dalton school which explains that adequately, rich people have done dumber and weirder things than hire their kid's favorite teacher for entry level hedge fund flunkeying, and from there him getting in good with Wexner (possibly in the course of Epstein's money crimes, or possibly just contemporaneously) isn't unreasonable, and we're off.

whoa

whoa

whoa

who the gently caress do you think you are coming into a place like this and saying poo poo like that?
:dogbutton:

# ? Dec 6, 2019 23:52

GWBBQ: Jan 2, 2005

Perry Mason Jar posted:

Found this while digging up Drake blinds:

Why are these blinds in 2018?

2013: Wyman was 47 years old when he began dating a 13-year-old girl � of course, with the approval of her mother. Wyman�s former band, The Rolling Stones, later flaunted their dalliances with underage groupies on merchandise sold during their 1994 Voodoo Lounge tour.

2011: In 1975, Aerosmith singer Steven Tyler, then 27, began dating a 16-year-old girl named Julia Holcomb, whose mother signed over her guardianship to him. She soon became pregnant, but then their relationship went south. Their apartment caught on fire, and she ended up in a hospital, during which time Tyler forced her to have an abortion. �When I returned home to my mother, I was a broken spirit,� Holcomb recounted in a 2011 essay. �I could not sleep at night without nightmares of the abortion and the fire. The world seemed like a dark place.� Some people have suggested that Tyler set the fire with the intent of killing her.

More contemporary rock stars like Anthony Kiedis of Red Hot Chili Peppers also bragged about committing statutory rape with no repercussions. In his 2005 autobiography, Scar Tissue, Kiedis recounts his sexual relationship with a 14-year-old Catholic school girl. Kiedis was 23 years old at the time; and after learning of her age, he proceeded to have sex with her again. He writes:
�The next day we drove to Baton Rouge, and of course, she came with us. After we got offstage, she came up to me and said, �I have something to tell you. My father�s the chief of police and the entire state of Louisiana is looking for me because I�ve gone missing. Oh, and besides that, I�m only fourteen.� I wasn�t incredibly scared, because in my somewhat deluded mind, I knew that if she told the chief of police she was in love with me, he wasn�t going to have me taken out to a field and shot, but I did want to get her the hell back home right away. So we had sex one more time.�

# ? Dec 7, 2019 10:03

GWBBQ: Jan 2, 2005

double post

# ? Dec 7, 2019 10:03

Perry Mason Jar: Feb 24, 2006; "Della? Take a lid"

GWBBQ posted:

Why are these blinds in 2018?

2013: Wyman was 47 years old when he began dating a 13-year-old girl � of course, with the approval of her mother. Wyman�s former band, The Rolling Stones, later flaunted their dalliances with underage groupies on merchandise sold during their 1994 Voodoo Lounge tour.

What is this?

quote:

Last week an 82-year-old household name was arrested as part of Operation Yewtree, set up to look into sexual abuse claims following the Savile investigation.

The article just ends abruptly with no further elaboration let alone naming the "household name"? What?

# ? Dec 7, 2019 17:40

Perry Mason Jar: Feb 24, 2006; "Della? Take a lid"

Hmm...

quote:

Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad asset who was used by Israeli intelligence to blackmail American politicians, according to a former Israeli spy.

Ari Ben-Menashe, a former Israeli spy and alleged �handler� of Robert Maxwell, told the authors of a new book, Epstein: Dead Men Tell No Tales, that Epstein ran a �complex intelligence operation� at the behest of Mossad.

Believing that Epstein planned to marry his daughter, Maxwell introduced him and Ghislaine Maxwell to Ben-Menashe�s Mossad circle.

�Maxwell sort of started liking him, and my theory is that Maxwell felt that this guy is going for his daughter,� Ben-Menashe said.

�He felt that he could bless him with some work and help him out in like a paternal [way].�

Israeli intelligence bosses gave the green light and Epstein then became a Mossad asset.

�They were agents of the Israeli Intelligence Services,� said Ben-Menashe.

When it became clear that Epstein wasn�t very competent at doing much else, his primary role became �blackmailing American and other political figures.�

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/epstein-was-mossad-agent-used-blackmail-american-politicians-says-former-israeli-spy

# ? Dec 7, 2019 18:23

Colonel Cancer: Sep 26, 2015; Tune into the fireplace channel, you absolute buffoon

Surprising absolutely nobody, artists and actors are pretty bad people

# ? Dec 7, 2019 18:27

I AM GRANDO: Aug 20, 2006

Yewtree still grabbing people six years later?

# ? Dec 7, 2019 18:30

Perry Mason Jar: Feb 24, 2006; "Della? Take a lid"

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Yewtree still grabbing people six years later?

Article's from 2013 my guy.

# ? Dec 7, 2019 18:59

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

GreyjoyBastard posted:

I think it's reasonable he had at least some level of contacts with at least one intelligence service by the time of his first arrest, I'm just not particularly convinced they were responsible for his rise - iirc his pops had connections at the Dalton school which explains that adequately, rich people have done dumber and weirder things than hire their kid's favorite teacher for entry level hedge fund flunkeying, and from there him getting in good with Wexner (possibly in the course of Epstein's money crimes, or possibly just contemporaneously) isn't unreasonable, and we're off.

I've never heard of Epstein's father - who worked for the NYC Park's Department - having a connection at one of Manhattan's most elite schools. Do you have a source for that?

As for the rest: you're right, everything about Epstein's career in the 1970s and 80s is possible to explain with more mundane reasoning. It's just the sheer number of overlapping coincidences combined with the knowledge of where his career would subsequently take him. I'm curious to know what your thinking is regarding Epstein and Wexner's acquisition of Southern Air Transport or Epstein's close relationship with Maxwell.

# ? Dec 7, 2019 19:31

GWBBQ: Jan 2, 2005

Perry Mason Jar posted:

What is this?

The article just ends abruptly with no further elaboration let alone naming the "household name"? What?

Name couldn't re released for legal reasons, apparently. Who was 82 in 2012 and has a riverside home in Berkshire?

edit: It was Rolf Harris https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-22212131

GWBBQ has issued a correction as of 19:38 on Dec 7, 2019

# ? Dec 7, 2019 19:32

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Helsing posted:

I've never heard of Epstein's father - who worked for the NYC Park's Department - having a connection at one of Manhattan's most elite schools. Do you have a source for that?

As for the rest: you're right, everything about Epstein's career in the 1970s and 80s is possible to explain with more mundane reasoning. It's just the sheer number of overlapping coincidences combined with the knowledge of where his career would subsequently take him. I'm curious to know what your thinking is regarding Epstein and Wexner's acquisition of Southern Air Transport or Epstein's close relationship with Maxwell.

It's possible I misremembered that first thing.

I find Maxwell and her relationship with Epstein super interesting and don't really have an opinion on how strong a link she had with Israel / Mossad other than "probably not zero". Scuttlebutt is that she actually was super into Epstein and was annoyed he never popped the question, lol, so maybe the causation flows in the other direction and any interaction with her shadowy contacts was her trying to help her boyfriend out. Weird evil power couple thing. The SAT thing definitely feels like, at minimum, a favor they were doing for one or more somebodies.

# ? Dec 7, 2019 20:53

SlimGoodbody: Oct 20, 2003

Colonel Cancer posted:

Surprising absolutely nobody, artists and actors are pretty bad people

A depressing realization for me was when I came to understand that a huge number of creative people are extremely broken psychos and narcissists who make art instead of go to therapy.

# ? Dec 7, 2019 21:05

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

The following excerpts are taken from a book called "Prelude to Terror" by a mainstream journalist named Joseph J. Trento. I am not necessarily endorsing everything Trento writes but I thought it would be helpful to quote from a comparatively mainstream reporter who has a bunch of experience doing interview and digging up dirt for well established venues like 60 Minutes, Nightline, CNN, NPR and Meet the Press.

I urge people to read these excerpts in full because I think they provide very helpful background information about how the CIA was changing during the 1970s and 1980s. Increasing scrutiny from Congress and the first revelations about some of the CIA's illegal activities on domestic soil combined with the general pessimism of the 1970s era American establishment to create an atmosphere in which huge expansions of the CIA's 'off book' operations were used to evade government scrutiny and secure large pools of unregulated funding.

In particular pay attention to the references to the Bank of Credit and Commerce International. I will follow this post with some quotations from a senate report on the BCCI:

Prelude to Terror: Edwin P. Wilson and the Legacy of America's Private Intelligence Network, 2006, Joseph J. Trento, Chapter 13, Politicizing Intelligence, p. 92-98 posted:

Politicizing Intelligence

AMONG THE PROBLEMS George Bush inherited at CIA
headquarters was a profound dispute between the CIA's professional intelligence staff and political conservatives on the outside.
These critics were people like Richard Perle, Richard Pipes, Sr.,
Major General Daniel O. Graham, and other hawks who said the
CIA was being too soft on the Soviets in their military assessments.
It was a dispute that removed barriers that eventually allowed the
ultimate privatization of American Intelligence. The CIA had
claimed for years that since it did not set policy, its research and
information were not clouded by political bias. But some conservatives believed that CIA estimates were tinged by the liberal views of
many high-ranking CIA officials. The conservatives charged that
faulty CIA estimates of Soviet strategic strength had allowed the
United States to sign the SALT I Treaty, which had permitted the
Soviets to catch up in strategic weapons.

In August 1975, the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory
Board (PFIAB), chaired by Admiral George W. Anderson (Ret.),
wrote President Ford a letter proposing that an outside group of
strategic experts be given access to the same intelligence as the
CIA analysts and be allowed to prepare a competing National
Intelligence Estimate (NIE). This outside group would be called
the B Team. The official intelligence community would be the A
Team. The effort became officially known as the A Team B Team
Experiment.

The importance of bringing in outside consultants to review the
CIA's work "crossed a line that had never been crossed before.
Bringing in outsiders legitimized the idea that the CIA was no
longer immune from outside influences," Hank Knoche said.

"The B Team was the first official recognition that CIA could be
challenged by outsiders," William Corson said. "So it was natural
that once outsiders could get their nose under the tent, the cloistered
days of the CIA old boys were over. . . ."

The influence that Richard Perle and others of similar political
persuasion were able to exert over intelligence operations would
dramatically increase in the coming years and decades. Intelligence
veterans consider the approval of the A Team B Team Experiment
the watershed.

William Colby, still DCI at the time, understandably was not
happy with the whole idea. He intuitively knew that to allow critics
to gain access to the estimates would politicize a process that was
supposed to be apolitical and strictly empirical. After President
Ford fired Colby on January 30, 1976, Admiral Anderson kept
pressing the new CIA Director, George Bush, to set up the outside
team. Bush, the first politician to hold the job, authorized the competition in June 1976.1 Hank Knoche, Bush's top deputy, said Bush
was in love with the idea. Knoche, a career bureaucrat, signed off on
the experiment and "lived to regret it." What Bush approved and
Knoche agreed to was revolutionary in American Intelligence. For
the first time, outsiders, many already skeptical of the CIA's work,
would be given free access to National Intelligence Estimates going
back to 1959. They would be given access to all of America's classified knowledge about the Soviet military.

CIA professionals had two major worries about the experiment.
One was that conservatives on the B Team might leak highly classified material to the press in order to promote their cause. The other
was that the CIA's reputation for impeccable strategic research
would be forever damaged. In the end, both of these fears came true

Since the experiment required the clearance of massive amounts
of classified documents and thousands of hours of follow-up, the
liaison position between the CIA and the B Team was a key appointment. This person would control the documents the outsiders saw
and the information they got. In early 1976, John Arthur Paisley was
chosen to be the CIA Coordinator for Team B.2

Paisley was an unprepossessing man who had worked in both the
covert and overt sides of the CIA. Officially a high-level analyst in
the CIA's Office of Strategic Research, Paisley was, in reality, a longtime covert operative.3 Paisley was the official CIA liaison to the
White House "plumbers," a group of security specialists, anti-Castro
Cubans, and assorted CIA second-story men. He had challenged
Henry Kissinger over the question of Soviet strategic capabilities
and had broken into foreign embassies with the White House
"plumbers." Paisley was the subject of the book Widows the author
wrote with Susan Trento and Bill Corson in 1989. Paisley's career
was fascinating. There was a suspicion that he had been recruited by
the Russians during World War II, having been a radio operator on
merchant vessels that visited Russia during the war.

By the time Bush came on the scene, Paisley was officially retired
but, in fact, was still working clandestine operations.

Naming Paisley as coordinator of the A Team B Team Experiment was a controversial choice. It meant putting in position as
the conduit for any information the B Team received a man who
had spent his entire career developing the very methods the B
Team was critically evaluating. Paisley's appointment may well
have been the CIA's effort at protecting its own interests against
Bush and the conservatives.

The entire effort was supposed to be secret. Both sides understood
that any press leaks could endanger national security. So on December
26,1976, when the lead story in the New York Times by David Binder
said that the B Team had reversed the National Intelligence Estimate
180 degrees, the CIA charged that the experiment had caused
important national security data to be compromised. The B Team's
version concluded that the CIA had underestimated Soviet strategic
intentions and technical capability. Members of the B Team would
later go on to advise the Reagan campaign of 1980 and provide the
force behind the so-far failed Strategic Defense Initiative ("Star
Wars"). Conservatives on the B Team, including Richard Pipes, Sr.,
and General Daniel O. Graham, were accused of the leaks.4 But
Binder, a veteran newsman known for his ties to conservative members of the intelligence community, including James Angleton,
claimed that it was the liberal Paisley who had leaked the story to him,
a story Binder said was one of the "most important of my career."5

Paisley was the most mysterious character involved in the A
Team B Team Experiment.6 He had ties to Watergate, and he also
had complete access to Bush while he was at the CIA. Bush's private
telephone numbers, including those at home, were in Paisley's
phone books.

During this period, Paisley was constantly snooping around the
CIA, using an unescorted visitor's badge. Paisley called on old colleagues in the Soviet Division and even in Shackley's Directorate of
Operations. He made people nervous. Soviet Division official
Leonard McCoy suspected that Paisley was trying to elicit information about McCoy's relationship with a young ex-Marine analyst
named David Sullivan. Paisley was clearly trying to get to the
bottom of something.

Sullivan, who was later forced to resign from the CIA for leaking
classified data to Richard Perle, told Robert Gambino in the Office of
Security that he suspected that Paisley was in fact a Soviet agent.7
Two years later, Paisley mysteriously disappeared while sailing on
Chesapeake Bay. A subsequent investigation revealed that a body
later recovered and initially identified as Paisley's was in fact not
his. Paisley has never been heard from again.8

Hank Knoche finds it hard to believe that Paisley was the source
of a story that so badly damaged the Agency.9 It is worth noting that
the leak took place after Jimmy Carter had won the election and
Bush had found out that he would not be staying on as CIA Director.

Under Bush, the Directorate of Operations had begun to radically
redesign itself in its continuing efforts to find a way to operate
without real accountability to Congress. Bush allowed the Directorate of Operations, being run by William Wells and his deputy Ted
Shackley, to operate almost without restraint. If the Justice Department, for example, made a request for its investigations into CIA
officials connected to criminal wrongdoing regarding Chile, Bush,
according to Justice Department files, routinely blocked such a
request. "The reforms of the CIA started by the Church Committee
in its 1975 hearings came to a dead halt under Bush . . . the goal was
to better hide things, not fix things," said William Corson. By
"taking operations and putting them in the hands of private businessmen and other countries, Congressional accountability could be
avoided, and that's what Bush allowed," said former CIA associate
director Robert Crowley.

Most looked upon the A Team B Team Experiment as a way of
opening up the CIA, but a close examination of the experiment and
the personalities involved point more to its being another step on
the way to the kind of privatization in which rogue intelligence officers would thrive: CIA operations run by a series of White
House-controlled units with no accountability to Congress.

In the A Team B Team Experiment, Bush allowed the conservatives a foot in the CIA door and at the same time discredited the liberals and their work inside the Agency. These conservatives would
one day control the policy and practices of the intelligence community under presidents Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and
George W. Bush. They would report in the early 1980s that America
was falling behind the Soviet Union militarily and would encourage
the massive buildup of American military hardware that occurred
under Reagan. Under the elder Bush, they would encourage the
1991 Persian Gulf War, and under the younger Bush support the
unproven missile defense system and another war in Iraq.

Prelude to Terror: Edwin P. Wilson and the Legacy of America's Private Intelligence Network, 2006, Joseph J. Trento, Chapter 14, Bush and the Safari Club, p. 99-106 posted:

ONE OF GEORGE BUSH'S most significant accomplishments
in his year as CIA Director was to switch the Agency's reliance, for
regional intelligence, from Israel to Saudi Arabia. The CIA and the
State Department's Arabists had long resented Counterintelligence
Chief James Jesus Angleton's "special relationship" with Israel. His
firing in December 1974 allowed the Operations Directorate to
play�for the first time� an unfettered role in Middle East operations. The covert staff had long sought to treat Saudi Arabia and
other Arab states in a more evenhanded manner than Angleton
would allow. While Israel enjoyed a productive if wary relationship
with both Saudi Arabia and Iran, Near East officials at the CIA were
convinced that Israel withheld huge amounts of intelligence about
the region from the United States. Bush's longstanding family and
business relationships with the Gulf states hurried the transition.

While the switch had begun under Colby with the firing of
Angleton, Bush's personal relationship with members of the Saudi
royal family sent events into high gear. The consequence was to pit
Israel's highly competent intelligence service against Israel's most
loyal friend, the United States, since the Israelis now had to spy on
the Americans to find out what we were doing with the Saudis.
Although Bush has been given much of the responsibility for the
shift, in reality he had always been a strong supporter of Israel,
despite ties to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states that went back to
his father and grandfather.

During George Bush's Zapata-Offshore years, he had met most of
the Gulf region's royals and had developed close personal relationships with several of them. When Saudi money began flowing into
Texas in the 1970s, Bush and his family became very friendly with
the most influential Saudis living in the United States.

The most important friendship Bush had was with a quiet, dignified man named Sheikh Kamal Adham, Director of Saudi Intelligence, whom Bush had met through his father. Bush has told
reporters, "I never met Kamal Adham personally." But according to
lawyers for the late Saudi Intelligence head and several officials at
the CIA who served under Bush, there were several official meetings
inside and outside the United States, both before and after Bush was
the DCI. "Bush and Kamal were old friends. I was present when
they met in New York when Bush was still United Nations Ambassador," Sarkis Soghanalian said. Bush and Adham shared a fascination with intelligence. Bush also took a deep interest in the sheikh's
American-educated nephew, HRH Prince Turki bin Faisal Al Sa'ud.

Prince Turki had been a subject of CIA interest ever since his
father had sent him to prep school at The Lawrenceville School in
New Jersey. Agency talent spotters on the faculty at Georgetown
University kept close track of Turki until he dropped out of Georgetown to return home at the outbreak of the 1967 war with Israel.
After later completing his education in England, Turki again
returned home to prepare himself to eventually succeed his uncle
Kamal Adham as Director of Saudi Intelligence.

"On his visits here," Robert Crowley recalled, "Agency management made Turki welcome, knowing full well that at some point
Saudi Arabia's General Intelligence Department [GID] would fall
under his control." As a young Saudi bureaucrat, Prince Turki was
cultivated by various CIA operatives, including Shackley, Clines,
and Terpil. In the early 1970s, when Terpil and Wilson first started
operations in Libya, Terpil set Wilson up with a Geneva lawyer
named Robert Turrettini, who also handled banking matters for
Turki. Terpil told Wilson that he went back years with Turki through
Turki's personal assistant. When Wilson needed financial backing
for several large-scale operations, Prince Turki put up the cash.1 In
1992, Wilson said he shared millions of dollars with Turki in a Swiss
bank account from an old operation.

Both Prince Turki and Sheikh Kamal Adham would play enormous roles in servicing a spy network designed to replace the official CIA while it was under Congressional scrutiny between the time
of Watergate and the end of the Carter administration. The idea of
using the Saudi royal family to bypass the American Constitution
did not originate in the Kingdom. Adham was initially approached
by one of the most respected and powerful men in Washington,
Clark Clifford, who rose to power under Harry Truman and had
enjoyed a relationship with the intelligence community for years.
"Clark Clifford approached Kamal Adham and asked that the
Saudis consider setting up an informal intelligence network outside
the United States during the investigations," Robert Crowley said.
Crowley, in his role as the CIA' s liaison to the corporate world, was
privy to the plan, in which worldwide covert operations for the
Agency were funded through a host of Saudi banking and charity
enterprises. Several top U.S. military and intelligence officials directed
the operations from positions they held overseas, notably former CIA
Director Richard Helms, at this time Ambassador to Iran.

Ed Wilson and his associates supported the network. According
to Wilson, Prince Turki was used to finance several of his intelligence operations during this time period. According to Wilson, the
amounts were in the millions of dollars. According to Tom Clines,
the relationship between the Saudis and the private U.S. intelligence
network that grew out of the activities of Clines and his colleagues
was "vital . . . these operations were so sensitive, they could not be
revealed." Mike Pilgrim, who also played a role in the operations of
the private network during the 1980s, said, "It got to the point where
we were used to support GID operations when the CIA could not."
According to those involved, there was no line drawn between what
was official and what became personal business.

Prince Turki himself acknowledged the private network for the
first time in an uncharacteristically candid speech given to Georgetown University alumni in February 2002: "And now I will go back
to the secret that I promised to tell you. In 1976, after the Watergate
matters took place here, your intelligence community was literally
tied up by Congress. It could not do anything. It could not send
spies, it could not write reports, and it could not pay money. In order
to compensate for that, a group of countries got together in the hope
of fighting Communism and established what was called the Safari
Club. The Safari Club included France, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,
Morocco, and Iran. The principal aim of this club was that we would
share information with each other and help each other in countering
Soviet influence worldwide, and especially in Africa. In the 1970s,
there were still some countries in Africa that were coming out of
colonialism, among them Mozambique, Angola, and I think Djibouti. The main concern of everybody was that the spread of Communism was taking place while the main country that would
oppose Communism was tied up. Congress had literally paralyzed
the work not only of the U.S. intelligence community but of its foreign service as well. And so the Kingdom, with these countries,
helped in some way, I believe, to keep the world safe at the time
when the United States was not able to do that. That, I think, is a
secret that many of you don't know. I am not saying it because I look
to tell secrets, but because the time has gone and many of the actors
are gone as well."

Turki's "secret" was that the Saudi royal family had taken over
intelligence financing for the United States. It was during this time
period that the Saudis opened up a series of covert accounts at Riggs
Bank in Washington. Starting in the mid-1970s, bank investigators
say, these accounts show that tens of millions of dollars were being
transferred between CIA operational accounts and accounts controlled by Saudi companies and the Saudi embassy itself. Turki
worked directly with agency operatives like Sarkis Soghanalian and
Ed Wilson. "If I needed money for an operation, Prince Turki made
it available," Wilson said. Clifford's request for Saudi help came at a
very critical time for the royal family. Although the House of Saud
had long placated domestic conservative clerics by allowing an education system that targeted the West�especially the United States�
as evil, they were still deathly afraid of the establishment of any
Muslim fundamentalist regime in the region. Their interests
included keeping the shah in charge in Teheran and keeping an eye
on an increasingly militant Libya. Although normally Israeli and
Saudi interests were in conflict, in this case they converged. It was in
the interest of Albert Hakim, Frank Terpil's sometime employer, to
serve as a bridge between the two.

Sarkis Soghanalian was close to Sheikh Kamal Adham during this
period. Adham frequently asked Soghanalian " about what kind of
shape the shah was in. He complained the CIA was not giving him
the full picture of how the shah was losing control." Adham
believed that binding Saudi Arabia with the United States would
increase the House of Saud's chances of surviving an Islamic resurgence. "Believe me," Soghanalian said, "Kamal did not do these
things out of charity, but survival."2

Adham worked closely with George Bush on the plan to provide
covert banking services for CIA operations. Like most things the
Saudis do, there were benefits for the royal family. The arrangement
would give the Saudis a comprehensive knowledge of U.S. intelligence operations. In 1976, when the CIA needed an influx of cash for
operations, Adham agreed to allow Nugan Hand Bank's Bernie
Houghton to open a branch in Saudi Arabia.

On the surface, the GID was organized along the same lines as a
miniature version of the CIA, but the hiring of case officers was very
different. Part of Prince Turki's job was to reach out to mullahs to
provide religious officers for the GID. Turki, perhaps the most savvy
politician in the royal family, tried to recruit those who practiced the
reform version of Islam fathered by Ibn Abd al-Wahhab. From an
intelligence viewpoint, bringing the extreme Wahhabis into the GID
would make them loyal to the royal family and help ensure the survival of the state.

In 1975, the royal family was approached by Pakistan's government
for help in financing a pan-Islamic nuclear weapon. Adham and his
advisers had simultaneously reached the conclusion that the royal
family could not survive if they let the Israeli nuclear-weapons program stand unchallenged.

One of Adham7 s closest American advisers3 said, " A decision was
taken to pursue a two-track policy: placate religious Muslims by
starting a covert effort to develop a pan-Islamic military capability....
The second policy would be to operate in conjunction with the
United States on undermining extreme Islamic movements that
might lead to the installation of an Islamic state/' The Saudis were
adamant, however, that the funding for the Pakistani program be for
research only and that no bomb be tested.

Adham understood that creating a single worldwide clandestine
bank was not enough to assure the kind of resources necessary to
stave off the coming Islamic revolutions that threatened Saudi
Arabia and the entire region. The Safari Club needed a network of
banks to finance its intelligence operations. With the official blessing
of George Bush as the head of the CIA, Adham transformed a small
Pakistani merchant bank, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), into a worldwide money-laundering machine,
buying banks around the world in order to create the biggest clandestine money network in history. Bush had an account with BCCI
established at the time he was at the CIA. The account was set up at
the Paris branch of the bank. Subsequent Senate and other investigations concluded that the CIA, beginning with Bush, had protected
the bank while it took part in illicit activities. One source who investigated the bank and provided information about the Bush account
in Paris was Jacques Bardu, who, as a French customs official, raided
the BCCI Paris branch and discovered the account in Bush's name.4

Time magazine reported that the bank had its own spies, hit men,
and enforcers. What no one reported at the time was that the bank
was being used by the United States and Saudi Arabia as an intelligence front.

There had never been anything like it. Paul Helliwell may have
made the mold, but Adham and BCCI founder Sheikh Agha Hasan
Abedi smashed it. They contrived, with Bush and other intelligenceservice heads, a plan that seemed too good to be true. The bank
would solicit the business of every major terrorist, rebel, and underground organization in the world. The invaluable intelligence thus
gained would be discreetly distributed to "friends" of BCCI.
According to Wilson and Crowley, Bush ordered Raymond Close,
the CIA's top man in Saudi Arabia, to work closely with Adham

Adham had other important roles too. He arranged through DCI
Bush to put Egypt's Vice President Anwar Sadat on an intelligenceagency payroll for the first time. This made Adham, in effect, Sadat's
case officer. This relationship gave Adham leverage when the time
came to persuade Sadat to sign the Camp David Accords.5

Adham and Abedi believed the United States needed monitoring.
After Adham left the GID in 1977, he and Abedi, using Clark Clifford, began infiltrating the American banking system with surreptitious purchases of major regional banks. Because Adham, through
his relationships with Shackley and Bush, had intimate knowledge
of just how desperate U.S. Intelligence was for the services of a convenient, Washington, D.C.-based bank, acquiring one became one of
his main goals. Meanwhile, as Clifford was making the connection
between the CIA and Adham, he was also calling on Attorney General Edward Levi to kill the probe� of the perjury investigation of
Helms's lying to the Senate about Chile� that was threatening the
future of Shackley and Helms, as well as the use of the Safari Club.6

Adham did not rely simply on money to carry out the plan.
Adham and Abedi understood that they would also need muscle.
They tapped into the CIA's stockpile of misfits and malcontents to
help man a 1,500-strong group of assassins and enforcers. Time magazine called this group a "black network." It combined intelligence
with an effort to control a large portion of the world's economy.

There were those at the CIA who fretted over Bush's proximity to
Shackley and the Directorate of Operations, and over his relationship
with Jennifer Fitzgerald, who was still serving as his "personal aide."
One of those was the late Executive Director of the CIA, Benjamin
Evans. Ben Evans was a highly disciplined West Point graduate who
was about as traditional as they come at the Agency. Because of his
job, his contact with Bush was frequent and personal. Evans told colleagues inside and outside the Agency that he thought "Bush was
taking a terrible chance . . . exposing himself not only to compromise
. . . but to sharks in the Agency," said a former high CIA official who
asked not to be identified.

Others also worried about Fitzgerald's history� specifically
about her father. According to William Corson, Peter Fitzgerald had
been "in one of British Intelligence's most important and classified
units. . . . Further, he never returned to England after World War II.
One of the worries some of the counterintelligence people had was
that Jennifer might be spying on Bush for the British."

Despite Evans's problems with Shackley and Fitzgerald, his
friendship with Bush was genuine. When Bush needed big favors�
especially, ten years later, when he was running the Iran-Contra .
operation for Ronald Reagan�he turned to Evans. For example, 1
Evans helped persuade an Indiana freshman senator named J. Dan- .
forth Quayle to provide cover in his Senate offices for some covert *
operatives. Evans's nephew, Daniel F. Evans, had coincidentally J
been a longtime Quayle supporter and fundraiser.7

# ? Dec 7, 2019 21:11

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

The following is a taken from a senate report on the Bank of International Credit and Commerce authored by John Kerry and Hank Brown. The full report runs over 500 pages long so I haven�t had a chance to read it yet.

The key thing to understand here is that the foundation of the BCCI coincides with the creation of something called the �Safari Club�, an organization set up after Watergate to allow continued covert operations that were beyond the reach of Congressional oversight and discussed in the excerpts from �Prelude to Terror� that I posted above. You could also do worse than perusing the wikipedia page.

I�m struck by how similar this seems to aspects of the Epstein case. In addition to many of the same names and countries and organizations being implicated there is also the use of financial organizations to help cover the transfer of narcotics, weapons, money and people. Also note the use of prostitutes and in particular teenage or prepubescent children to gain control of influential individuals.

Again, this is all happening just before or concurrent to the start of Epstein�s career. I quote all this mostly to emphasize that at bare minimum Epstein�s operations closely resemble the kind of honeypot organizations that the intelligence networks he is most closely connected to were known to be running at exactly the moment that Epstein�s career took off. Once again all circumstantial but nevertheless the parallels are quite interesting.

quote:

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
1. BCCI CONSTITUTED INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL CRIME ON A MASSIVE
AND GLOBAL SCALE.
BCCI's unique criminal structure -- an elaborate corporate spider-web with BCCI's founder,
Agha Hasan Abedi and his assistant, Swaleh Naqvi, in the middle -- was an essential component
of its spectacular growth, and a guarantee of its eventual collapse. The structure was conceived
by Abedi and managed by Naqvi for the specific purpose of evading regulation or control by
governments. It functioned to frustrate the full understanding of BCCI's operations by anyone.

Unlike any ordinary bank, BCCI was from its earliest days made up of multiplying layers of
entities, related to one another through an impenetrable series of holding companies, affiliates,
subsidiaries, banks-within-banks, insider dealings and nominee relationships. By fracturing
corporate structure, record keeping, regulatory review, and audits, the complex BCCI family of
entities created by Abedi was able to evade ordinary legal restrictions on the movement of
capital and goods as a matter of daily practice and routine. In creating BCCI as a vehicle
fundamentally free of government control, Abedi developed in BCCI an ideal mechanism for
facilitating illicit activity by others, including such activity by officials of many of the
governments whose laws BCCI was breaking.

BCCI's criminality included fraud by BCCI and BCCI customers involving billions of dollars;
money laundering in Europe, Africa, Asia, and the Americas; BCCI's bribery of officials in most
of those locations; support of terrorism, arms trafficking, and the sale of nuclear technologies;
management of prostitution; the commission and facilitation of income tax evasion, smuggling,
and illegal immigration; illicit purchases of banks and real estate; and a panoply of financial
crimes limited only by the imagination of its officers and customers.

Among BCCI's principal mechanisms for committing crimes were its use of shell corporations
and bank confidentiality and secrecy havens; layering of its corporate structure; its use of frontmen and
nominees, guarantees and buy-back arrangements; back-to-back financial documentation among BCCI
controlled entities, kick-backs and bribes, the intimidation of
witnesses, and the retention of well-placed insiders to discourage governmental action.

2. BCCI SYSTEMATICALLY BRIBED WORLD LEADERS AND POLITICAL
FIGURES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

BCCI's systematically relied on relationships with, and as necessary, payments to, prominent
political figures in most of the 73 countries in which BCCI operated. BCCI records and
testimony from former BCCI officials together document BCCI's systematic securing of Central
Bank deposits of Third World countries; its provision of favors to political figures; and its
reliance on those figures to provide BCCI itself with favors in times of need.

These relationships were systematically turned to BCCI's use to generate cash needed to prop up
its books. BCCI would obtain an important figure's agreement to give BCCI deposits from a
country's Central Bank, exclusive handling of a country's use of U.S. commodity credits,
preferential treatment on the processing of money coming in and out of the country where
monetary controls were in place, the right to own a bank, secretly if necessary, in countries
where foreign banks were not legal, or other questionable means of securing assets or profits. In
return, BCCI would pay bribes to the figure, or otherwise give him other things he wanted in a
simple quid-pro-quo.

The result was that BCCI had relationships that ranged from the questionable, to the improper, to
the fully corrupt with officials from countries all over the world, including Argentina,
Bangladesh, Botswana, Brazil, Cameroon, China, Colombia, the Congo, Ghana, Guatemala, the
Ivory Coast, India, Jamaica, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritius, Morocco, Nigeria, Pakistan, Panama,
Peru, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, the
United States, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.

4. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MISHANDLED ITS INVESTIGATION AND
PROSECUTION OF BCCI, AND ITS RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER
GOVERNMENT AGENCIES CONCERNING BCCI.

Federal prosecutors in Tampa handling the 1988 drug money laundering indictment of BCCI
failed to recognize the importance of information they received concerning BCCI's other crimes,
including its apparent secret ownership of First American. As a result, they failed adequately to
investigate these allegations themselves, or to refer this portion of the case to the FBI and other
agencies at the Justice Department who could have properly investigated the additional
information.

The Justice Department, along with the U.S. Customs Service and Treasury Departments, failed
to provide adequate support and assistance to investigators and prosecutors working on the case
against BCCI in 1988 and 1989, contributing to conditions that ultimately caused the chief
undercover agent who handled the sting against BCCI to quit Customs entirely.
The January 1990 plea agreement between BCCI and the U.S. Attorney in Tampa kept BCCI
alive, and had the effect of discouraging BCCI's officials from telling the U.S. what they knew
about BCCI's larger criminality, including its ownership of First American and other U.S. banks.
The Justice Department essentially stopped investigating BCCI following the plea agreement,
until press accounts, Federal Reserve action, and the New York District Attorney's investigation
in New York forced them into action in mid-1991.

Justice Department personnel in Washington lobbied state regulators to keep BCCI open after
the January 1990 plea agreement, following lobbying of them by former Justice Department
personnel now representing BCCI.

Relations between main Justice in Washington and the U.S. Attorney for Miami, Dexter
Lehtinen, broke down on BCCI-related prosecutions, and key actions on BCCI-related cases in
Miami were, as a result, delayed for months during 1991.

Justice Department personnel in Washington, Miami, and Tampa actively obstructed and
impeded Congressional attempts to investigate BCCI in 1990, and this practice continued to
some extent until William P. Barr became Attorney General in late October, 1991.

Justice Department personnel in Washington, Miami and Tampa obstructed and impeded
attempts by New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau to obtain critical information
concerning BCCI in 1989, 1990, and 1991, and in one case, a federal prosecutor lied to
Morgenthau's office concerning the existence of such material. Important failures of cooperation
continued to take place until William P. Barr became Attorney General in late October, 1991.

Cooperation by the Justice Department with the Federal Reserve was very limited until after
BCCI's global closure on July 5, 1991.

Some public statements by the Justice Department concerning its handling of matters pertaining
to BCCI were more cleverly crafted than true.

I'm skipping past this section but it's interesting to note that this report describes how during the late 1980s the Miami DA was instrumental in obstructing investigations of BCCI whereas the New York DA was instrumental in bringing a case against BCCI and inadvertently brought about the bank's closure. I point this out because while this may just be a coincidence it's interesting that the Miami authorities were instrumental in covering up for Epstein at multiple points whereas it was the New York DA who finally triggered his downfall.

quote:

7. THE CIA DEVELOPED IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON BCCI, AND
INADVERTENTLY FAILED TO PROVIDE IT TO THOSE WHO COULD USE IT.
THE CIA AND FORMER CIA OFFICIALS HAD A FAR WIDER RANGE OF
CONTACTS AND LINKS TO BCCI AND BCCI SHAREHOLDERS, OFFICERS, AND
CUSTOMERS, THAN HAS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED BY THE CIA.

By early 1985, the CIA knew more about BCCI's goals and intentions concerning the U.S.
banking system than anyone else in government, and provided that information to the U.S.
Treasury and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, neither of whom had the
responsibility for regulating the First American Bank that BCCI had taken over. The CIA failed
to provide the critical information it had gathered to the correct users of the information -- the
Federal Reserve and the Justice Department.

After the CIA knew that BCCI was as an institution a fundamentally corrupt criminal enterprise,
it continued to use both BCCI and First American, BCCI's secretly held U.S. subsidiary, for CIA
operations.

While the reporting concerning BCCI by the CIA was in some respects impressive -- especially
in its assembling of the essentials of BCCI's criminality, its secret purchase of First American by
1985, and its extensive involvement in money laundering -- there were also remarkable gaps in
the CIA's reported knowledge about BCCI.

Former CIA officials, including former CIA director Richard Helms and the late William Casey;
former and current foreign intelligence officials, including Kamal Adham and Abdul Raouf
Khalil; and principal foreign agents of the U.S., such as Adnan Khashoggi and Manucher
Ghorbanifar, float in and out of BCCI at critical times in its history, and participate
simultaneously in the making of key episodes in U.S. foreign policy, ranging from the Camp
David peace talks to the arming of Iran as part of the Iran/Contra affair. Yet the CIA has
continued to maintain that it has no information regarding any involvement of these people,
raising questions about the quality of intelligence the CIA is receiving generally, or its candor
with the Subcommittee. The CIA's professions of total ignorance about their respective roles in
BCCI are out of character with the Agency's early knowledge of many critical aspects of the
bank's operations, structure, personnel, and history.

The errors made by the CIA in connection with its handling of BCCI were complicated by its
handling of this Congressional investigation. Initial information that was provided by the CIA
was untrue; later information that was provided was incomplete; and the Agency resisted
providing a "full" account about its knowledge of BCCI until almost a year after the initial
requests for the information. These experiences suggest caution in concluding that the
information provided to date is full and complete. The relationships among former CIA
personnel and BCCI front men and nominees, including Kamal Adham, Abdul Khalil, and
Mohammed Irvani, requires further investigation.

A few other suggestive tidbits from the report:

quote:

In his July 29, 1992 indictment of BCCI's former heads, Agha Hasan Abedi and Swaleh Naqvi,
and two of BCCI's front-men, Ghaith Pharaon and Faisal Saud Al Fulaij, New York District
Attorney Robert Morgenthau alleged, in some detail, how BCCI systematically engaged in
criminal activity with officials and prominent political figures from many countries to generate
assets for BCCI's Ponzi scheme, both from the governments involved, and from innocent,
legitimate depositors.

As the indictment alleges:

. . . members of the BCC Group, acting to further the conduct and affairs of the criminal
enterprise, assisted various nations, including Pakistan, Senegal, Zambia and Nigeria, to evade
fiscal restraints placed on them by such world institutions as the World Bank and the
International Monetary Fund. . . . The BCC Group agreed to bribe employees, agents and
fiduciaries entrusted with Third World money to place it at risk in the BCC Group, which was
insolvent.

Members of the enterprise sought to secure a preferential position for the BCC Group in various
countries through the use of corrupt payments of monies and other benefits to powerful
individuals and to make and cause to be made deposits of money with the BCC Group.
Specifically, defendants Abedi and Naqvi plotted to deliver cash and other benefits to countries'
finance ministers, head of countries' central banks and senior executives of international and
regional organizations to obtain deposits. . .

Among the countries in which members of the BCC group made such corrupt payments for
deposits and favorable treatment were the Congo, Nigeria, Morocco, Senegal, Tunisia, the Ivory
Coast, Argentina and Peru. Among the institutions defrauded were the World Bank, the
International Monetary Fund, the African Development Bank and the Economic Cooperation of
West African States.(2)

Similarly, over the past four years, the Subcommittee has developed extensive documentary and
testimonial evidence of BCCI's systematic reliance on relationships with, and as necessary,
payments to, prominent political figures in most of the 73 countries in which BCCI operated.
BCCI records and testimony from former BCCI officials together document BCCI's systematic
securing of Central Bank deposits of Third World countries; its provision of favors to political
figures; and its reliance on those figures to provide BCCI itself with favors in times of need.

As BCCI's former senior official for the Caribbean, Abdur Sakhia, testified:

BCCI's strategy globally had been to be very well-known, to make an impact in the marketplace,
to have contacts or relationships . . . with all the people who matter. . . You name it, we would
develop relationships with everyone of consequence . . . In the Caribbean, every major country I
knew the heads of state, I knew the finance ministers, I knew the governors of the central bank. I
knew heads of all the major banks in the area, the heads of foreign banks. I knew the people in
various official agencies, like the Caribbean Development Bank, Inter-American Development
Bank, Organization of American States. Everyone of consequence in this region I knew. . . .(3)

These relationships were systematically turned to BCCI's use to generate cash needed to prop up
its books. BCCI would obtain an important figure's agreement to give BCCI deposits from a
country's Central Bank, exclusive handling of a country's use of U.S. commodity credits,
preferential treatment on the processing of money coming in and out of the country where
monetary controls were in place, the right to own a bank, secretly if necessary, in countries
where foreign banks were not legal, or other questionable means of securing assets or profits. In
return, BCCI would pay bribes to the figure, or otherwise give him other things he wanted in a
simple quid-pro-quo. For example, BCCI would help an official move flight capital out of his
country to a safe haven elsewhere, to launder funds skimmed by the official from an official
bank account or official commercial transaction, create a foundation for a head of state to
provide charitable services for his home village or province, take him on a shopping spree at a
fancy London department store, or secure him sexual favors.

The result was that BCCI had relationships that ranged from the questionable, to the improper, to
the fully corrupt with officials from countries all over the world, including but certainly not
limited to Argentina, Bangladesh, Botswana, Brazil, Cameroon, China, Colombia, the Congo,
Ghana, Guatemala, the Ivory Coast, India, Jamaica, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritius, Morocco,
Nigeria, Pakistan, Panama, Peru, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Tunisia,
the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, the United States, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.

Typically, these relationships were handled personally and in secrecy by BCCI's top two officials
-- Abedi and Naqvi -- with the occasional assistance of trusted lieutenants. Accordingly, a full
accounting of these relationships may not be possible. Sakhia told the Subcommittee that he
believed there was a list of BCCI's payments to political figures somewhere at BCCI's
headquarters in London, held closely by Abedi and Naqvi, that contained all the names. When
BCCI's headquarters were moved to Abu Dhabi in the spring of 1990, the list, if it still existed,
was likely moved there with BCCI's other records:

There was a world wide list of people who were in the payoff of BCCI. The family of Indira
Gandhi. President [Ershad] of Bangladesh. General Zia of Pakistan. Many of the leaders of
Africa. I went to a World Bank meeting in Seoul, Korea and [BCCI official] Alauddin Shaikh
was handing out cash in the hall to the staff of the Central Bank of Nigeria . . . Abedi's
philosophy was to appeal to every sector. If you were religious people he would help you pray.
President Carter's main thing was charity, so he gave Carter charity. [Pakistani] President Zia's
brother-in-law needed a job, he got a job. [Bangladeshi] President [Ershad]'s mistress needed a
job, she got a job. You needed the admission of your son to a top college? Abedi would arrange
it somehow.(4)

According to Sakhia, the form of the payoff varied with the needs of the customers, but the
purpose was always the same -- "to buy influence."(5)

quote:

Prostitution

BCCI's involvement in prostitution arose out of its creation of its special protocol department in
Pakistan to service the personal requirements of the Al-Nahyan family of Abu Dhabi, and on an
as-needed basis, other BCCI VIPs, including the families of other Middle Eastern rulers.

Several BCCI officers described the protocol department's handling of prostitution to Senate
investigators in private, and two -- Abdur Sakhia and Nazir Chinoy -- confirmed their general
knowledge of the practice in testimony.

The prostitution handled by BCCI was carried over from practices originally instituted by Abedi
at the United Bank, when working with a woman, Begum Asghari Rahim, he cemented his
relationship with the Al-Nahyan family through providing them with Pakistani prostitutes.

Among BCCI bank officials in Pakistan, Begum Rahim was reputed to have in United Bank first
won the favors or attention of the royal family by arranging to get virgin women from the
villages from the ages of 16 to 20. Rahim would make payments to their families, take the
teenaged girls into the cities, and there taught them how to dress and how to act, including the
correct mannerisms. The women would be then brought to the Abu Dhabi princes. For years,
Rahim would take 50-60 of these girls at a time to large department stores in Lahore and Karachi
to get them outfitted for clothes. Given the size of Rahim's retinue and her spending habits --
$100,000 at a time was not unusual when she was engaged in outfitting her charges -- her
activities became notorious in the Pakistani community generally, and there was substantial
competition among clothiers and jewelers for her business.(73)

According to one U.S. investigator with substantial knowledge of BCCI's activities, some BCCI
officials have acknowledged that some of the females provided some members of the Al-Nahyan
family were young girls who had not yet reached puberty, and in certain cases, were physically
injured by the experience. The official said that former BCCI officials had told him that BCCI
also provided males to homosexual VIPs.(74)

# ? Dec 7, 2019 21:26

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

GreyjoyBastard posted:

It's possible I misremembered that first thing.

I find Maxwell and her relationship with Epstein super interesting and don't really have an opinion on how strong a link she had with Israel / Mossad other than "probably not zero". Scuttlebutt is that she actually was super into Epstein and was annoyed he never popped the question, lol, so maybe the causation flows in the other direction and any interaction with her shadowy contacts was her trying to help her boyfriend out. Weird evil power couple thing. The SAT thing definitely feels like, at minimum, a favor they were doing for one or more somebodies.

Consult the sources I posted and see if they change your intuition at all. I find your perspective understandable and also helpful because threads like this require skeptical voices and demands for evidence to keep them grounded. A dialogue between people who do not fully agree or share all the same views is generally preferable to an echo chamber where any dissent is treated with open hostility.

One thing I'd urge you to consider is that the kind of power game Epstein and Wexner were playing was exceptionally dangerous. For Epstein and Wexner to have freelanced their way right into the middle of this clandestine world of child prostitution and narcotics and arms trafficking without any kind of institutional backing or support seems a tad implausible don't you think? Just think of it as you would any other major criminal organization: if a new drug cartel or human trafficking ring suddenly appears in an over-saturated market you would expect them to be challenged. We call cartels cartels for a reason after all. If Wexner and Epstein were really just a couple of horny American businessmen then I'm skeptical that they could have survived for years playing such a dangerous game. It feels like the equivalent of a Wall Street trade just randomly quitting his job to become a mafia don: unless you're already part of the club you're just asking to get killed.

I don't want to set too much stock in a line of thinking that is inherently speculative but thoughts like that one are why I struggle with the notion that this affair was strictly limited to Epstein and Wexner.

# ? Dec 7, 2019 21:34

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

I mean, I suspect Wexner already had those connections, and acquired them in the course of becoming a (genuinely good at his moderately evil day job) marketing mogul who by definition needed to involve himself with skeezy financiers and skeezier international modeling stuff and so on. If anything, him being a notionally aboveboard rich guy other than the sex trafficking adjacent stuff (and let's be frank, relatively few shits are given by the population at large about modeling industry exploitation TODAY) makes him more useful for Money Favors a la the airline thing.

The Dalton school thing is definitely the weirdest point in the pre-Wexner process (esp since I couldn't find anything about Seymour Epstein there on a quick skim just now so *shrug* guess I was wrong or remembered an unsourced remark or something), but assuming there was something nefarious going on there just pushes the mystery back a step - why would the CIA recruit a random-rear end college dropout to go teach math at an elite school as part of a decades-long scheme? Why would they recruit this particular random-rear end college dropout?

On the other hand, there are obviously LOTS of reasons for them to at least cultivate loose ties with Les Wexner's sex trafficking protege who is also a financier and pedophile.

Goatse James Bond has issued a correction as of 21:58 on Dec 7, 2019

# ? Dec 7, 2019 21:56

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

With the school you might have gotten some wires crossed since it was Bill Barr's dad who got Epstein the job?

# ? Dec 7, 2019 21:58

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

StashAugustine posted:

With the school you might have gotten some wires crossed since it was Bill Barr's dad who got Epstein the job?

not just got him the job, hired him

and yeah it's possible I wound up confusing the two in the usual way human memories are unreliable

# ? Dec 7, 2019 22:00

Taintrunner: Apr 10, 2017; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

well, I guess we're never gonna get justice now that it's just some commercialized lovely meme

# ? Dec 8, 2019 03:39

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

https://twitter.com/TrueAnonPod/status/1203505821826473986?s=19

# ? Dec 8, 2019 03:54

Regulus74: Jul 26, 2007

GreyjoyBastard posted:

why would the CIA recruit a random-rear end college dropout to go teach math at an elite school as part of a decades-long scheme? Why would they recruit this particular random-rear end college dropout?

Because barr recognized their shared paraphilia and knew he could make use of it.

You don't want your blackmailing pimp to the stars to have his own independent source of power because then he could theoretically use it to fight back should he need to be suicided.

# ? Dec 8, 2019 04:11

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

GreyjoyBastard posted:

I mean, I suspect Wexner already had those connections, and acquired them in the course of becoming a (genuinely good at his moderately evil day job) marketing mogul who by definition needed to involve himself with skeezy financiers and skeezier international modeling stuff and so on. If anything, him being a notionally aboveboard rich guy other than the sex trafficking adjacent stuff (and let's be frank, relatively few shits are given by the population at large about modeling industry exploitation TODAY) makes him more useful for Money Favors a la the airline thing.

The Dalton school thing is definitely the weirdest point in the pre-Wexner process (esp since I couldn't find anything about Seymour Epstein there on a quick skim just now so *shrug* guess I was wrong or remembered an unsourced remark or something), but assuming there was something nefarious going on there just pushes the mystery back a step - why would the CIA recruit a random-rear end college dropout to go teach math at an elite school as part of a decades-long scheme? Why would they recruit this particular random-rear end college dropout?

On the other hand, there are obviously LOTS of reasons for them to at least cultivate loose ties with Les Wexner's sex trafficking protege who is also a financier and pedophile.

Epstein was recruited at Interlochen, Dalton was just his first assignment, look into Barr Sr.s abuse as headmaster, he left right after hiring Epstein, with a month overlap where he was still there for "handover".

# ? Dec 8, 2019 04:20

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

The pedo cabal extends from the music industry, to Hollywood and tv, modeling, etc. it's not just a couple people lol

# ? Dec 8, 2019 04:21

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# ? May 24, 2024 05:20

Dr. Killjoy: Oct 9, 2012

I've done the obligate crazy person "a lot of tv shows and films have employed themes of child trafficking and what not right around the epstein explosion" but holy poo poo even the DC cartoon Young Justice revival did it and I have no idea what to make of this now.

big ole carl jung's human collective unconsciousness poo poo going on

# ? Dec 8, 2019 10:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Epstein] Hello madda / Hello fadda / Gotta syndrome / Called Havana!

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