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Safari Zone time 
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Nov 27, 2019 03:50
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:04 |
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You're right, you can't have two Pokemon frozen at once. I forgot about the Freeze clause.
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Nov 27, 2019 03:54
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Did you fight that Cueball three times?
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Nov 27, 2019 07:19
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Mraagvpeine posted:Did you fight that Cueball three times?
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Nov 27, 2019 07:34
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Have Dodrio and Joltion always been Yellow and Hi-vis Green?
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Nov 27, 2019 07:48
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mateo360 posted:Have Dodrio and Joltion always been Yellow and Hi-vis Green?
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Nov 27, 2019 08:14
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Route 17: What's The Matter, Trainer? I've been putting this update off for over a week now. I just... I really, really don't want to deal with what comes next. Sometimes, though, you just have to bite the bullet and get it over with.    Not this part, this is fine. Our worst obstacle in the whole gym s some random Juggler's Hypno after THE BOY gets confused and hits himself three times in a row. WEEST actually takes more damage from the poison walking back than he does from the whole battle with Koga.   Toxic! The primary weapon of any stall Pokemon that can use TMs for seven generations. It's not as effective in RBY as later, as due to technical limitations, Toxic turns into regular poison when a Pokemon is switched out. But against an AI, who rarely retreats unless they literally can't do anything? We're in for some fun times.   ...later. Fun times later.  Not really, but I don't have much of a choice.  For those of you who haven't played older Pokemon games, the Safari Zone is an excellent and innovative minigame section. We'll talk about how wonderful it is in just a little bit, we've got some errands first.    There's a couple TMs here. Egg Bomb, a 100 power, 75% accuracy Normal move that might be interesting if it had better distribution and Mega Kick didn't exist. The other is Skull Bash, a move which is... a slightly better Razor Wind?  At least Double Team is good. (Evasion-boosting moves are actually banned in most forms of competitive singles, as in the early days, there was only one move that ignored accuracy, and Swift is... not great. I don't suspect I'll be using Double Team, that's practically cheating, but if I do need it, it's nice to have.The TMs aren't why we're here, though. We're here for the-  Dammit, hang on.     There we go. We're here for the HMs! Surf is just given to us directly, and we trade the Gold Teeth for Strength. Both are solid with 100% accuracy, Water and Normal, respectively. They're not exciting, having no secondary effects or interesting quirks, but they're reliable work horses, and Surf has nearly the same average damage as Hydro Pump, after accuracy. You don't mind needing to carry these moves on Pokemon, especially ones that get STAB, unlike some other HMs I could name. coughcutcoughcoughflashcough Sorry, must be coming down with something.   TUBE picks up both, replacing Bite and Bubblebeam. THE BOY also grabs Surf, but passes on Strength, as Body Slam is better in every regard.  Now, that's taken care of, let's go back and catch some Pokemon!     Each and every one of these Pokemon is hard to find, and even harder to catch, and they're worth it. (Mostly.) Exeggcute   Viability: 4/5 You do not know how much it kills me to rank Exeggutor this low. Eggcelent stats (  ), Psychic type, a sleep move, Explosion, aaand... a complete and utter dependence on high value TMs to have any kind of offensive presence whatsoever. No recovery besides Leech Seed means it can't even serve the back-up role as a wall that its level-up movepool tries to suggest it should, and that Grass typing gives it some easily-exploitable weaknesses, especially Ice.It's far from a bad Pokemon, and using Psychic on Eggsy isn't a move you'll regret. But I just can't justify rating it higher than Starmie, who also wants that TM, and can do so much more both with and without it. Rhyhorn   Viability: 4.5/5 Another RBY OU staple, and the true first Pokemon, Rhydon is often in direct competition with Golem for a team slot. I'll write up the full comparison of who would win out if both were accessible, but for this run, that's irrelevant. Rhydon is, no questions asked, the best physical wall we've got. 105 HP, 120 Defense, Rock typing, and the monstrous offensive presence of STAB Ground and Rock coming off of a ridiculous 130 Attack. Normally, this is where I go into a long spiel about how it's murdered by its lack of depth. And, to be fair, that depth is atrocious, even worse than Exeggutor. Here's the thing, though: The TMs Rhydon needs are in much lower demand. Rock Slide isn't actually that great without STAB, and, unlike most viable users of the Earthquake TM, Rhydon can also learn Dig. In PvE, that is almost as good, as they have the exact same base power in RBY. Yeah, maybe the AI will switch to a Flying type in response, but the only one of those that Rhydon fears is Articuno, who has... other problems. Even Fighting types can't guarantee they'll win a 1v1, especially if they eat an Earthquake on the switch. Terrible Speed and a horrendous list of Special weaknesses keep Rhydon away from a 5/5, but only just. Chansey  Viability: 5/5 The superstars just keep coming, don't they? Chansey is, in some ways, a counterpart to Rhydon. Whereas Rhydon is the premier Physical wall, Chansey is the undisputed lord of Special walls. Chansey's obnoxiously high 250 base HP is completely unmatched in RBY. Soft-Boiled provides recovery, Reflect shores up its weak Defense, while Counter punishes trying to exploit it, and Seismic Toss gives it offensive presence without use of a valuable Special TM. In PvE, where the AI doesn't like switching, it's also an excellent user of Toxic. Hell, it even learns Sing by level-up, if you're feeling extra cheeky. Normally, I avoid giving 5s to Pokemon that can only do one thing, but Chansey's thing is so unique and completely unparalleled, there's no way I can justify any less than a perfect score. Kangaskhan  Viability: 3.5/5 I feel really bad for Kangaskhan, honestly. 105 HP, 95 Attack, a decent 90 Speed, and a pretty good (if one-note) level-up moveset... It's got a lacking Special, which means it can't really take advantage of its good movepool, but that can be said for a lot of Normals. If it showed up earlier, around Vermillion or Celadon, it'd be a sensible upgrade from Raticate as a fast Normal-type attacker. Unfortunately, it does not, and this leaves its in the same kind of lurch as Pidgeot and Wigglytuff: Kangaskhan is ompletely outclassed in every meaningful way by something obtainable in almost exactly the same area. Lower Attack, lower Speed, much lower Special... Kangaskhan's only advantage over Tauros is access to Surf, but even with a 4x weakness, it still doesn't have enough oomph to OHKO Golem and Rhydon. "Budget Tauros" isn't a badge of shame, but there's no situation or niche where it's strictly better than the bull, and that's left Kangaskhan trapped in "good enough to use if it's one of your favorites" mediocrity.  And our king Tauros  Viability: 4.5/5 In RBY competitive, you don't need reasons to use Tauros, you need reasons not to use Tauros, and that's a short list. It's fast, it's strong, it's got just enough coverage to get through drat near anything that stops its Body Slams and Hyper Beams, and it's even got passable 75/95/70 bulk. However, in this LP, those reasons do exist. First, without trades, that coverage comes in the form of Blizzard and Earthquake, which are TMs that keep coming up as high-value. They're very well-used here, but I can't overlook the opportunity cost. Much more damningly, with Stadium lacking the 'skip the recharge on kill' glitch that makes Hyper Beam so critical in RBY, Tauros' most damaging move is Double-Edge. This drop in power is significant, and while DE has more versatility as a general-purpose attack, the recoil also severely cuts into Tauros' long term survivability and leaves it vulnerable to getting outsped or worn down. In Stadium's 3v3 format, that's something of a liability. I'm going to get drawn and quartered for this, but with all the changes and obstacles this LP brings, Tauros just isn't as good as in cart battles. It's still absolutely excellent, don't take this the wrong way. Tauros's combination of speed, power, and coverage is unmatched in a physical attacker, but there are drawbacks now. The king has been made to bleed, and now all of his subjects know he is mortal. Does that make Snorlax Leonidas? I guess? I dunno. Don't think about the metaphor too hard, I certain't didn't.  There's also other Pokemon here, mostly chaff. This is the best/only place to catch Dratini and Scyther/Pinsir if you don't feel like Game Corner grinding, as well as Pokemon like Venomoth and Parasect to save you some Dex-completion leveling. Seems like a neat area, right? What makes it so annoying that I've been dreading it since the LP started? Well, a few things. The Safari Zone is, as the name suggests, a nature reserve, and thus you can't bring in outside Pokemon that might disrupt the delicate ecosystem of endangered Pokemon here. (I have to assume the common ones are here as prey animals.) So, instead of battling, your three options when encountering a Pokemon are throwing a Ball, some Bait, or a Rock. A Pokemon that is eating Bait is half as likely to flee, but is also twice as difficult to catch, while one that is angry from getting a rock thrown at it is twice as easy to catch, but four times as likely to flee.  This means that you are always, always best off just throwing Safari Balls and praying that you get lucky. Okay, that's not technically true. There's a well-known exploit where you can turn in place without using up steps. If you're using this, it's best to throw a rock first, as you can always just encounter more Pokemon, but running out of Balls boots you out immediately. However, this turn in place requires frame-perfect inputs, and I spend enough time on this LP as it is without also needing to practice speedrun tricks.  Oh, and yes, I did say "flee." Every Pokemon in the Safari Zone, at the end of every turn, has a chance to run away. Faster Pokemon are more likely to run away, and there's gently caress all you can do about it except go back to encountering other Pokemon and hoping you get luckier next time. Did I mention that most of these Pokemon have an encounter rate of between 4% and 1%, based on which screen you're in? Try to catch a Chansey in the wrong zone, and you will need to wait, on average, one hundred battles before your next chance. Hey, at least if you're in the right zone, it's only one every twenty five battles. And nowhere in the game are you told which zones are best for catching which Pokemon.    gently caress you. To hell with it, we'll come back later. I'm angry and I want to go somewhere and beat someone up.    This'll do. Next Time on Multi-Track Battling: Kiss my Lapr-rear end, Giovanni. Complete Available Roster 5.0:      4.5:      4.0:      3.5:        3.0:           2.5:    2.0:      1.5:    1.0:       Other: 
girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Dec 5, 2019 |
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Dec 5, 2019 08:17
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Ha, looks like the viability explanation masterpost just hit the character limit. First time I've ever had a post do that. Time to split it into two, I guess!
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Dec 5, 2019 08:44
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GAH the Safari Zone, never liked them, never will. It gets even worse in Yellow, since Tangela is made exclusive to this place, where it's of course very rare and VERY FAST, so it has a ridiculously high chance of bolting on the first turn. Oh, and you have to catch 2 cause you can trade it for something, uh, poo poo or whatever, don't remember. Otherwise just gotta huck balls and pray.
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Dec 5, 2019 09:36
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Crosspeice posted:GAH the Safari Zone, never liked them, never will. I want to say you can trade it for Raichu in the Cinnabar lab, since you can't evolve Pikachu normally in Yellow?
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Dec 5, 2019 09:47
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Tauros is such a massive pain in the rear end to catch that despite it's power I almost never bother trying to catch one.
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Dec 5, 2019 09:49
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As a kid with Red AND Blue, Kangaskhan was the only Pokemon in Generation 1 that I never caught. Was denied a complete Pokedex (across the two games) thanks to that jerk.
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Dec 5, 2019 10:29
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The only redeeming thing about gen 1 safari zone is that the cinnabar exploit exists for you to ignore it.
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Dec 5, 2019 11:48
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And because Chansey's Defense is so goddamn low, for it to be PVP viable you really want one with max defense DVs, so that means catching dozens of them and checking all their stats. Although you can find them in the Unknown Dungeon, which at least lets you use your stack of duplicated Master Balls.
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Dec 5, 2019 16:05
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I cannot remember where I read it, but I remember the story of early competitive sleeping on Chansey until some guy rocked a tournament with his complete rear end in a top hat of a chansey
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Dec 5, 2019 16:49
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I've always wanted to have a Chansey or Blissey on my main team but I always get underwhelmed by them, especially considering how rare they are
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Dec 5, 2019 17:16
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Rabbi Raccoon posted:I've always wanted to have a Chansey or Blissey on my main team but I always get underwhelmed by them, especially considering how rare they are They're pretty bad for playing through the game normally because they don't really have offenses (except Chansey in gen 1 with special TMs). Their value in competitive is how difficult they are to kill and that's just not valuable in game.
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Dec 5, 2019 17:28
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WrightOfWay posted:They're pretty bad for playing through the game normally because they don't really have offenses (except Chansey in gen 1 with special TMs). Their value in competitive is how difficult they are to kill and that's just not valuable in game. SEY-CHAN ain't nothing to gently caress with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzA724Izj5o&t=215s
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Dec 5, 2019 17:32
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FoolyCharged posted:The only redeeming thing about gen 1 safari zone is that the cinnabar exploit exists for you to ignore it.
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Dec 5, 2019 19:29
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Dec 5, 2019 19:45
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Yeah gen 1 Chansey is fairly usable attacker with 105 base special. Ice beam, Blizzard, fire blast, thunderbolt, psychic. Just have to also clone some tms, is all!
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Dec 5, 2019 20:11
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Reading all this just makes me realize how huge reusable TMs were in gen5 onwards. Unovan engineering at its finest.
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Dec 6, 2019 05:20
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Pokemon Center 4: It's A Head-On Collision: Power Versus Power!  With Graveler as its only other competition, Rhydon is the clear winner as best Rock type in this LP. However, what if its rival was accessible? How would Golem stack up against a Rhydon? What if I could make trades, or there was one available as an in-game trade? How would that impact my decision? You know the drill by now: Power, Bulk, Speed, Width, and Depth. Power: Rhydon's 130 Attack is tied for second-highest we've got access to, and none of the others can brag about having excellent STAB options to take advantage of it. Excepting Self-Destruct/Explosion, Rhydon is the most damaging physical attacker in the game. Again, Golem is no slouch, either, 110 Attack gives it quite a kick, and its Explosion is the second-most damaging attack in RBY, just a hair behind Snorlax's Self-Destruct. Still, in a contest of moment-to-moment power, Rhydon is the clear winner. Bulk: Golem has higher Defense and Special, but Rhydon has higher HP. Normally, this would shake out as about even, but Golem's low HP gives it greater vulnerability to Seismic Toss, one of the only non-Special attacks that can reliably be used to hurt it. This is accentuated even more by another factor: While both Golem and Rhydon can learn Substitute, Rhydon's HP is high enough that its Sub will survive a Toss from full health, while Golem's will not. Outside of that, with similar stat-spreads and identical weaknesses, they come out very even. It is still an edge, though, and so Rhydon comes out on top again. Speed: It is an incredibly marginal win, but Golem takes it here. Both are extremely slow; Golem's 45 Speed compared to Rhydon's 40 does not give it many meaningful Speed wins or ties, that Rhydon doesn't get, and all the ones it does have are unevolved Pokemon like Drowzee and Squirtle. That makes this just barely more than a tie. Width: Golem's main advantage over Rhydon in this category is access to Explosion, a move that can seriously dent or even kill a Pokemon coming in to try and take it out. Rhydon has a larger Special movepool, but has no business using it, and its access to Horn Drill means absolutely nothing; OHKO moves automatically fail against faster Pokemon in Gen 1. So, Golem takes this one, another slight edge on a very similar moveset. Depth: This is Golem's real advantage over Rhydon. That Explosion is learned by level-up, as is Earthquake, and a Rock STAB move, Rock Throw. That last one doesn't mean much, unfortunately. Rock Throw's 65% accuracy is absolutely horrendous on a move with only 50 BP, and so it wants Rock Slide just as badly as Rhydon does. However, learning Earthquake by level-up frees up both Dig and Earthquake to be used by other Pokemon, ones who might very much appreciate the coverage. Meanwhile, Rhydon's most damaging level-up move is Take Down, which for some reason it doesn't learn until level 64, long, long after I've got access to the TM. Golem wins. Overall: In a vacuum, without any TMs, Golem wins, with EQ, Explosion, and a terrible but still technically usable Rock move by level-up. However, if I can spare the Dig and Rock Slide TMs, and if I don't want to rely on Explosion, Rhydon's greater power and niche but slightly more substantial bulk wins out. It's a close thing, but given the situation I'm currently in, even if I had access to Golem, I'd still probably use Rhydon. There may be other situations where Golem's advantages would win out, though... girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Jan 13, 2021 |
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Dec 6, 2019 06:32
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PMush Perfect posted:Pokemon Center 4: It's A Head-On Collision: Power Versus Power! Huh, never would've guessed they're that evenly matched when it comes down to it. I suppose Rhydon being a pokemon without an evolution (until later) really hurts it with that Take Down at 64. Most of the games are usually over by 50 from what I know, so that's a rough deal. Of course, having to trade with someone to get Golem is also kind of a pain. Explosion's always been a risky tactic anyways.
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Dec 6, 2019 06:56
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MR. J posted:Reading all this just makes me realize how huge reusable TMs were in gen5 onwards. Yeah, but that came with it's own caveat. Suddenly all the good moves started cropping up stupid late in the game. In gen 1 thunderbolt was a badge 3 reward. In black and white 2 you dont see it until victory road.
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Dec 6, 2019 12:24
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FoolyCharged posted:Yeah, but that came with it's own caveat. Suddenly all the good moves started cropping up stupid late in the game. In gen 1 thunderbolt was a badge 3 reward. In black and white 2 you dont see it until victory road. I think that's a fair trade off, since there were other, still-useful moves to grab in the meantime. And depending on the game you'll still get some of them earlier than otherwise. XY gives you thunderbolt at gym 5, SM gives you scald at brooklet hill (USUM replaced it with charge beam but you know, still) and so on. we don't talk about SWSH, though
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Dec 6, 2019 14:30
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rannum posted:I think that's a fair trade off, since there were other, still-useful moves to grab in the meantime. And depending on the game you'll still get some of them earlier than otherwise. XY gives you thunderbolt at gym 5, SM gives you scald at brooklet hill (USUM replaced it with charge beam but you know, still) and so on. Why? i thought that the changes to TM and TRs were pretty cool.
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Dec 6, 2019 14:33
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Kikas posted:Why? i thought that the changes to TM and TRs were pretty cool. They took almost every good TM and put it into a one-use TRs that you have to grind Raids (OR grind watts and pay the big fake-bucks for them from a random daily selection) for, which you have little control over, don't spawn many per day and the matchmaking is garbage and I have myriad other issues with Raids. Meanwhile TMs became a dumping ground for all the middling moves and just absolute trash. Oh boy Screech. the best TM addition was probably putting the punches there, but that only goes so far. Even late in the game I was picking up TMs and wishing I hadn't bothered.
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Dec 6, 2019 14:44
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rannum posted:They took almost every good TM and put it into a one-use TRs that you have to grind Raids (OR grind watts and pay the big fake-bucks for them from a random daily selection) for, which you have little control over, don't spawn many per day and the matchmaking is garbage and I have myriad other issues with Raids. This got me curious so I looked up the TM/TR list to see what each has, and: 1) There are 99 of each, so good loving luck getting the TR you want for your team. 2) The only moves on TMs that deal more than 75 with no negative side effects are Mega Punch/Kick, and those have trash accuracy. Otherwise you have Hyper Beam/Giga Impact, Solar Beam/Solar Blade, Fly/Dig/Dive/Bounce/Phantom Force, and Explosion. You want something with actual punch that doesn't have a way to screw you over? Better grind out TRs. Hell, Surf is now a TR. Surf. The move that has been really good since gen 1 because you can toss it on everyone without having to worry about TM limits.
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Dec 6, 2019 15:04
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I really wish they'd inverted TMs and TRs. Put the possibly situationally useful things into TRs and keep useful things in TMs.
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Dec 6, 2019 17:18
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Omnicrom posted:I really wish they'd inverted TMs and TRs. Put the possibly situationally useful things into TRs and keep useful things in TMs. But then how would they force everyone to participate in their latest unnecessary gimmick?
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Dec 6, 2019 17:28
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Black Robe posted:But then how would they force everyone to participate in their latest unnecessary gimmick? By offering the chance to get special giant pokemon with multiple guaranteed Max IVs and candies necessary to power up the latest unnecessary gimmick?
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Dec 6, 2019 17:38
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Hey, how about that funny Tauros I drew, huh?
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Dec 6, 2019 18:16
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PMush Perfect posted:Hey, how about that funny Tauros I drew, huh? As a Taurus I am greatly offended and I would like to speak to your manager
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Dec 6, 2019 18:18
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You fool, I'm a Capricorn! I am the manager.
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Dec 6, 2019 18:34
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PMush Perfect posted:Hey, how about that funny Tauros I drew, huh? i know tauros is being a giant pain to catch but removing two of its tails is just mean e:  mistakes were made, i flew too close to the sun rannum fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 18:41
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rannum posted:the best TM addition was probably putting the punches there, but that only goes so far. Yes, somehow Thunder Fang is on my shortlist of "best TMs".
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Dec 6, 2019 19:00
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Just to add my take, having played Sword and Shield, it's trivially easy to collect most of the best TRs, because they show up in three-star max raids (or less), which are extremely easy. The only trick is needing to figure out which dens have which pool of TRs, which is as easy as a quick Google search. Very few worthwhile moves are locked behind four- or five-star max raids (the ones that can actually be a hassle), and solid alternatives are usually provided (for example, I'd say Scald is a pretty good move to use until Surf becomes available, Waterfall's not a bad stand-in for Liquidation or Razor Shell, etc.). The only TR I genuinely felt the absence of was Earthquake, which does, admittedly, strike me as a kinda lovely move, given that it's the only easily-learned physical ground-type move (High Horsepower and Drill Run are decent moves, but a lot of ground-types can't learn either), and they'd already hamstrung physical ground-types by removing Magnitude. On the other hand, not a single move in the entire game requires me to engage with the Battle Tower, which is great, because the Battle Tower and its various permutations are terrible. Also, as a small correction, due to there being TM/TR00, there's an even hundred of each category.
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Dec 6, 2019 22:34
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You forgot an incredibly important part of your assessment, PMush. Rhydon is both cooler and cuter looking than Golem by 50.
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Dec 7, 2019 00:27
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 10:04 |
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Scald is so much better than Surf that it’s completely eclipsed the latter.
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Dec 7, 2019 00:50
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