|
Big Taint posted:Dude this is the all-goat season. Lmao i was just about to post this
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 03:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 23:51 |
|
|
Groupthink is ugly as gently caress and it's so easy to fall into. I wish more Survivors were aware of it and could just admit that's what happened. Like "yeah, we all just kept piling onto her and got caught in a vicious feedback loop of reinforcing each other's confirmation bias. We couldn't see in the moment how lovely we were being, but watching it back, yeah we were kind of awful." I feel like that at the very least would carry a lesson about how easy it is to fall into that trap.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 04:58
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:It's Karishma so I'm taking it with a grain of salt, but oof, it certainly doesn't sound like a nice time out there. And yeah, I'd have a lot more sympathy for this cast if they were out there saying "its terrible to watch back and I'm embarrassed by my behavior and owe X an apology." But the fact that they're all in hiding and skipping what we thought was mandatory exit press that pretty much every Survivor has done forever just makes them look so much worse to me. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Dec 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 05:17
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:And yeah, I'd have a lot more sympathy for this cast if they were out there saying "its terrible to watch back and I'm embarrassed by my behavior and owe X an apology." But the fact that they're all in hiding and skipping what we thought was mandatory exit press that pretty much every Survivor has done forever just makes them look so much worse to me. Yeah. It was really telling, to me, how utterly silent Elizabeth's and Missy's Twitters were immediately preceding and following that episode (and in Elizabeth's case ever since), until their their requisite "apology" statements. They knew full well how this poo poo was going to be portrayed to the general public, probably as a result of their time on Ponderosa and at the FTC, and they accordingly kept their heads down. It's not leaving me with a lot of confidence that everything between the players was smoothed over in the end and it's all just water under the bridge now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 05:45
|
|
|
Reminder that Aaron 'Mansplaining' Meredith is the best character to walk away from that hot mess.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 06:11
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:There's some irony in that Noura was dragging Karishma across the sand at the swap, but let's not pretend that she's not only swimming because Dan is dragging her.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 14:50
|
|
|
This season would at least be a fun mess if loving Dan wasn't there. Everything surrounding Dan just demonstrates more and more that the show had no idea how badly they stepped in it with this whole situation and by the time they knew, it was too late to change anything.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 15:18
|
|
|
For the "Dan wins" theorizers: on one of the recent RHAPs (maybe the live KIA?) a listener floated the idea that Dan might not be in attendance at the reunion and Rob responded with a kind of dark knowingness, "Oh, I think he will be..." Might just be because he's pegging Dan as a finalist goat though, or knows Survivor is going to want Dan there to demolish or will withhold his payment. Listened to Karishma's exit interview with Rob and she was great. Seemed like a nice, fun, upbeat person. I did originally get the feeling on the show that all the women considered her one of them and then she isolated herself by calling them a sorority, saying she didn't fit in, etc., but yeah maybe everyone else just sucked who knows Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Dec 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 16:24
|
|
|
If Dan wins, which I am skeptical about since I think Rob, Sandra, or Chris will suddenly be thrust into the game at the finals and win -- but if Dan wins, I hope he only shows up to grab his check but otherwise isnt spoken to or heard from.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 18:44
|
|
|
Three months ago I was terrified that rob or Sandra would be put in the game and now it’s the only thing I want
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 19:40
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Looks like Elizabeth didn't do any exit press, because Karishma's is out: Paragraphs explaining casual bullying and mob mentality after we literally watched it happening all season. "It's Karishma so I'm taking it with a grain of salt." 
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 20:54
|
|
|
Well obviously, sometimes it's the victim's fault they think they are being bullied.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
Fast Luck posted:For the "Dan wins" theorizers: on one of the recent RHAPs (maybe the live KIA?) a listener floated the idea that Dan might not be in attendance at the reunion and Rob responded with a kind of dark knowingness, "Oh, I think he will be..." Might just be because he's pegging Dan as a finalist goat though, or knows Survivor is going to want Dan there to demolish or will withhold his payment.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 22:07
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:And Rob's theory was that Dan and Elaine were real close (and the narrative was hiding Elaine a bit so we didn't dislike her for it) This is interesting to hear. I soured on Elaine when I saw how readily she took part in the "Aw, Poor Dan"-powwow after the Kellee vote and, if I remember correctly, also joined in on ragging on Kellee with the others.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 23:10
|
|
|
Man, the way Karishma goes out of her way to say she thinks that all the people who were bullying her are genuinely good people, and attributes it to island groupthink and mob mentality just goes to show that she is a very generous and kind person. She's immediately offering them all an out, and an easy way to apologise with "You're right, that's not me, I got caught up, etc etc."
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 23:15
|
|
|
Yeah, she comes off really great in that exit interview. Obviously really forgiving and has moved past it, isn't attacking anyone by name, and is offering all the room in the world for people to publicly say "I'm sorry." It makes it all the more glaring that the people who owe that apology are in hiding. And I had a good laugh at "Thanks for having me, Stephen." It turns out Karishima is funny when she's not being bullied and made an emotional mess. Beantown posted:This is interesting to hear. I soured on Elaine when I saw how readily she took part in the "Aw, Poor Dan"-powwow after the Kellee vote and, if I remember correctly, also joined in on ragging on Kellee with the others. I don't really remember he ragging on Kellee but she definitely told Dan she had his back and she was comfortable with him. Now we don't really know what Elaine knew about everything that was happening with Dan, Kellee, Missy/Elizabeth, and Janet so its hard to figure out how she fits into that mess. Its possible she was ignorant to what was happening like the guys say they were. But Rob's theory was basically that Elaine and Dan were super close and Elaine getting less tv time the last few weeks was because the editors didn't want us associating her with him or getting poisoned like others. But it was mostly just speculation on his part and the fact that Dan said they should vote out Elaine this week would seem to undermine the theory a bit. Elaine still could have been loyal to Dan I guess, but its definitely not as tight as Rob was theorizing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 6, 2019 23:33
|
|
|
Dan loving sucks. This season would suck without him but holy poo poo does it suck with him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 01:03
|
|
|
I'm just waiting for that moment when we all realize how the reunion show is gonna be hella awkward and lovely no matter how it goes. Either they ignore the bad poo poo and its weird and gross. Or the confront the bad poo poo and Dan, Missy, Elizabeth, etc are weird and gross. Or they let Kellee, Jamal, Karishima, whoever speak and its kind of weird and gross that they're put in that position. Just weird and gross.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 01:32
|
|
|
Let's hope they just replace it with a half-hour performance from Sia
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 01:47
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I'm just waiting for that moment when we all realize how the reunion show is gonna be hella awkward and lovely no matter how it goes. Either they ignore the bad poo poo and its weird and gross. Or the confront the bad poo poo and Dan, Missy, Elizabeth, etc are weird and gross. Or they let Kellee, Jamal, Karishima, whoever speak and it's kind of weird and gross that they're put in that position. Just weird and gross. I really can't see any possible way for it to go well. It's already always super rushed, everyone has to talk as fast as possible to fit in before getting cut off, and they've only been feeling faster over time. Unpacking the stuff is going to feel really weird. A bunch of serious stuff to say rushed out on a program that's also supposed to be a big promo for the next season. I wouldn't be surprised if the reunion stuff is just short with most of it being hyping up next season more than anything. Between "seriously examine and unpack the events, productions response, and how it's actually been part of many seasons since the beginning" or "[/spoiler]omg s40 looks who is back, people you actually liked![/spoiler]"
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 02:35
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I'm just waiting for that moment when we all realize how the reunion show is gonna be hella awkward and lovely no matter how it goes. Either they ignore the bad poo poo and its weird and gross. Or the confront the bad poo poo and Dan, Missy, Elizabeth, etc are weird and gross. Or they let Kellee, Jamal, Karishima, whoever speak and its kind of weird and gross that they're put in that position. Just weird and gross. Maybe they can just extend the episode section of the finale an extra 10-20 minutes (Thus like 30 minutes with commercials), then just reveal the winner (probably Dan) and then do a super long 10 minute season 40 preview.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 03:03
|
|
|
I imagine that’s what they’ll do. Like season 30 finale.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 04:50
|
|
|
I mean, yeah. I think its a question of whether they address it or ignore it. And if they choose to ignore it they'll probably just intentionally overrun and ignore the reunion as best they can. But ignoring it will feel sleazy all on its own. Especially with all those people being cowards and hiding from addressing it and with Kellee having to sit silent while Dan made himself a victim and attacked her.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 04:54
|
|
|
They’ve already ignored it. Every episode since. And they’ve been giving Dan visibility. They’ve ignored the vast majority players during reunions before on seasons where a contestant didn’t repeatedly sexually assault his castmates despite being asked to stop. They’re going to speed through the reunion and hope hype for 40 is enough to sweep this season away.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 05:17
|
|
|
I think there's a difference in ignoring it when the parties are absent/removed and ignoring it when everyone is collected and you're supposed to be doing a retroactive. But I'm not disagreeing that they might just ignore it and rush through to S40. I just think it will be the disgusting, rotting cherry on the season any way they play it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 05:26
|
|
|
It's going to be a Dan apology gush which will include the phrase "not who I am" and pats on the back from a bunch of gormless goobers that buy his faux sincerity
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 05:33
|
|
|
As someone from an Indian background, I feel like I know dozens of Karishmas, and ultimately I feel she brought a lot of the problems she faced on herself. She isolated herself because she didn’t identify with anyone around her, and there was no one going out of their way to include her in the group. It happens a lot with people who come from insular backgrounds - they are skeptical of anything different, which makes everyone around them reject them and they end up as an outcast.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 05:45
|
|
|
I don't really get what it is about Karishima that makes so many fans unwilling to accept that she was bullied when we saw it on the show, it matches what she says, other survivors acknowledged it, and the people in question did plenty of other lovely things. She might have been introverted or emotionally fragile or whatever but none of that made people like Missy and Noura treat her like poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 05:57
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I don't really get what it is about Karishima that makes so many fans unwilling to accept that she was bullied when we saw it on the show, it matches what she says, other survivors acknowledged it, and the people in question did plenty of other lovely things. She might have been introverted or emotionally fragile or whatever but none of that made people like Missy and Noura treat her like poo poo. It's because she's an annoying weenie
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 06:32
|
|
|
when I catch up on a day of lots of posts sometimes I forget this isn't the wwe thread
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 06:36
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:when I catch up on a day of lots of posts sometimes I forget this isn't the wwe thread Be a Star, Missy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 06:53
|
|
|
When does Australian Survivor All Stars start?
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 11:50
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:It's because she's an annoying weenie Yeah, I mean this seems pretty obvious to me. The way I see it, the 'in group' / 'out group' dynamic is at the core of Survivor gameplay and also the way that bullying works so uhhhh if you can't stand the heat stay off the island. But i also just have very little time for anyone over the age of 15 complaining about being bullied. They were assholes and treated her like poo poo, but nobody stole her lunch or gave her swirlies in the ocean. Grow up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 15:38
|
|
|
The core of survivor gameplay is to vote people out while getting them to like you enough to give you a million dollars. Way to miss the point in order to justify bullying
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 16:08
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I don't really get what it is about Karishima that makes so many fans unwilling to accept that she was bullied when we saw it on the show, it matches what she says, other survivors acknowledged it, and the people in question did plenty of other lovely things. She might have been introverted or emotionally fragile or whatever but none of that made people like Missy and Noura treat her like poo poo. Karishma got bullied after making herself an outcast. That doesn’t excuse the actions of Missy and co., but it lessens sympathy towards her. She made herself an outsider, got treated like an outsider, then wallowed in self-pity about being the outsider and made very weak attempts to try to get back in with anyone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 16:13
|
|
|
Another Bill posted:Yeah, I mean this seems pretty obvious to me. This is a lovely way to view the world
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 16:14
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:I don't really get what it is about Karishima that makes so many fans unwilling to accept that she was bullied when we saw it on the show, it matches what she says, other survivors acknowledged it, and the people in question did plenty of other lovely things. She might have been introverted or emotionally fragile or whatever but none of that made people like Missy and Noura treat her like poo poo. Sounds like everyone is bad here. People shouldn't bully people. Karishma also walled herself off. It was a self-cycle where she believed that she was going to be isolated and left out, so she did it to herself. Reminds me of... Nina from Worlds Apart, who was deaf, and complained that Jenn and Hali wouldn't invite her to skinny dip or something. Not that she would have, she just wanted to be asked because she didn't fit in.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 17:07
|
|
|
Karishma rules and was treated unfairly, but even if that weren't true the players really ought to treat each other with some level of decency. It's easy to say "they're jerks, ignore them!" in everyday life when you can more easily walk away and go home and spend time with loved ones, it's a lot harder to let that stuff roll of your back when you're literally stuck with those people and only those people for over a month (over 3 months on Big Brother!). Also with regards to why it seems like no one is playing well and no one has really made any moves: because the horrible Dan stuff took up most of the first two episodes, we missed out on a ton of strategy that shaped the post-merge and now none of it makes sense and everything feels like random dumb moves. We still have no real idea (1) why Tommy/Lauren/Dan stuck with the post-swap tribe for the first 2 votes instead of the original tribe (especially given how heated their one post-swap Tribal was!), (2) why Dean was the only one who flipped on his post-swap tribe those first 2 votes (including casually abandoning Kellee who seemed like his only real ally the entire game), (3) how and why original Vokai came back together and why Janet and Noura seem to think it's good in the longterm to stay with them. There's also seems to be a general inconsistency episode-to-episode about which original Lairo are working with the original Vokai and why (Elaine and Dean seemed semi-solidly in with them until this episode when they suddenly weren't, Karishma worked with Elaine to help them but then was working with Elizabeth who she voted against the next episode, etc.). It's easy to write this all off as "what dumb players, none of it makes sense!!" but someone at some point is making some decisions about these moves and we're just seeing who's doing it and what their reasoning is. It's easy to write off Dean as an idiot (I personally think he is too!) but it's tough to say because the show is just not showing us why he did what he did, where he thinks he stands in either group, and what his longterm plans are. He casually mentioned having an alliance with Dan and Tommy in a confessional this week and who the heck knows if that's a real Final 3 all three of them agreed to or if it's just Dean's delusions or somewhere in between.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 17:51
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Sounds like everyone is bad here. Seconding. Also adding that Karishma didn't really seem to try to be a player until later on. She mostly just claimed victim or talked about how she was alone or played weak (e.g. her automatic reaction when being called out for being gone so long hunting for an idol... Was to play sick/weak. That was her go-to response. I don't understand how that would be someone's automatic defense) and people on survivor don't hold much sympathy for the sick/weak since it's seen as a liability. Karishma's ponderosa was what made me see her as someone other than frail/fragile/mopey, which was a nice change.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 18:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 23:51 |
|
|
AWarmBody posted:She mostly just claimed victim Thoughts like this are just so gross. Between people bullying vs someone who has a hard time ingratiating themselves with their bullies... there's no "Well BOTH SIDES" here. One side is objectively awful and the other is a bummer of a situation but understandable. Stop victim blaming or playing the "both sides" game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 7, 2019 19:45
|
|