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Top down wrpgs are what I think of when talking about genres that died then came back like most of those genres they showed that there were solid reasons why they died.
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Dec 5, 2019 03:21
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah that's the thing, like JA2, SMAC, original X-Com, they are actually still playable today (I never played MoO2 so I don't know about that one). It's just that you will miss a lot of modern conveniences we've gotten used to. They still hold up as games but design has moved on and it's hard to jump back. It's why people keep trying to make sequels or spiritual successors; they want to try to recapture that lightning in a bottle in a way that will be more appealing to a modern audience. The problem is they always tend to drill down on specific aspects of the original game that they think was the magic X-factor that made everyone like it, but really they're holistic products and you can't just pick out one or two elements and have it feel like the same game. X-Com : Enemy Unknown had it right when they basically remade the original as best as they could, and then, from there, streamlined what was annoying (like having to count movements points, etc.) and any other QoL they could think of. It's also why, as they take more and more chances with the following X-Coms, I'm not expecting 3 to be all that remarkable. I guess that's my unpopular opinion: (/edit/ i was lacking a few brain cells and thought I was reading the unpopular opinions thread somehow. comment stands! /edit/) of the remakes, I think X-Com 2 is a better game than X-Com 1, but I found the first more enjoyable with a way better atmosphere. War of the Chosen started raising little red flags for me when they had the chosen call you on the phone constantly, with cinematics showing you the interactions between the chosen and the elders (a clear case of show, don't tell; but in game form) and with the screen overlays you get whenever you selected the Reaper. All little signs making me wary for the future. Popoto fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Dec 5, 2019 |
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Dec 5, 2019 03:32
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Ham Sandwiches posted:The endless remakes are very much a thing and they don't seem to be going away. On a more philosophical note, I find it odd that small teams of 5-20 people could create wholly novel gameplay and experiences in the 1990s. This was brand new gameplay that had never been seen before. Xcom and JA2 had to forge the way for tactical games, MOO had to figure out how to make space 4x work, and SOTS had to figure out how to merge the realtime tactical and strategic gameplay. None of those things were new. XCOM was an iteration of Laser Squad. MOO followed Reach for the Stars, CA released Shogun Total War six years before SotS and they weren't even the first to merge different gameplay styles. (SotS doesn't really belong in this category, it's good but more cult good than exceptional).
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Dec 5, 2019 08:43
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Is it me or is EUIV incredibly hard to play now? Just seems the update and such have made it difficult to play. Unless you're one of the major nations, it's really difficult to expand and grow. Edit: Also I'm sad that Theatrum Terris Orbitum is no longer updated, as it was the best looking map mod.
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Dec 5, 2019 09:14
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I've had the same thoughts about how small teams could make such great games back in the day. And yes I realize much of it is nostalgia and it being impossible to relive the magic of being a kid again but it still feels like some of the the spark of turn-based strategy was lost. If new XCOM spurred new interest in the genre, that's great! I used to think it was the arms-race of 3D graphics from the playstation era forward that made development more expensive and time consuming, but today I imagine the toolkits are much better and 3D rendering isn't such a hurdle. On an 8-bit cartridge you had to have your poo poo optimized, organized, and lean as could be if you wanted any amount of content in there. Fast forward to 2019 and indie studios are banging out some amazing games (Star Ruler 1/2 did indeed own) but I wonder if some of the artificial tech constraints of the old days might have been more a blessing and a curse. Even MOO 1 and MOO 2 basically had to fit on a 700MB CD, right? Then again, 20 years from now someone will make the same argument about how the golden age of gaming was when they were a teenager playing Stellaris or CK2 and marrying a horse or whatever.
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Dec 5, 2019 09:20
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Ham Sandwiches posted:The endless remakes are very much a thing and they don't seem to be going away. On a more philosophical note, I find it odd that small teams of 5-20 people could create wholly novel gameplay and experiences in the 1990s. They still do. We got a lot of new genres like roguelites (like FTL or Binding of Isaac), puzzle RPGs (like Puzzle Quest), narrative games like whatever Alexis Kennedy does, survival thing like Minecraft, battle royals, DOTA, autochess - all of those things were made by small teams after 2000, some were made in 2019.
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Dec 5, 2019 09:52
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Communist Bear posted:Is it me or is EUIV incredibly hard to play now? Just seems the update and such have made it difficult to play. Unless you're one of the major nations, it's really difficult to expand and grow. I had a moment like that but really it made me happy in the end. AI is rational enough to see a weakling he can annex. This might mean a rough start for OPM, you are not guaranteed to get a good ally. So I'd say there's that element of an uncertainty in the very beginning, and sometimes you might feel locked between unbeatable alliances. But the game has a lot of tools to overcome stuff like that now, at least with DLCs.
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Dec 5, 2019 10:03
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SlothfulCobra posted:A lot of genres just kinda died after the 90s for some reason, and it took a long while for them to come back in a reasonable capacity. New XCOM really spurred a larger-scale revival of turn-based strategy. I like digging up and playing older games, but there are a lot of quality of life improvements in newer games that it can be hard to go without. Now that anyone with internet can self-publish and/or sell on steam, things are looking up again tho.
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Dec 5, 2019 10:14
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There are still innovative and well made games being made today. I kind of have to just lol @ people who says that's gone away, because really it means that all you do to shop games is look at whatever is being blasted with ads or topping out on twitch. Creativity chiefly comes from small teams, and always has. Large corporate productions are not suited to it, though there are notable exceptions here and there. Thing is, in the past pretty much all gaming studios were small, relative to the industry today. But there are still a lot of small studios making great games. They just won't have slick AAA graphics and their marketing budgets are small, so they aren't blasted all over the internet when they release. Saying that video games don't innovate anymore betrays that you just play the biggest and most hyped releases from major studios. It's like only watching Marvel films and then remarking about how movies are all the same these days. There are so many great games out there it's crazy. And most of the best, imo, do not come from the major players. My rule of thumb is that if a game's upfront asking price at release is $0 or $60, it sucks. Most good games today retail for $15 to $40 (full asking price at release). Get out of your comfort bubble and look up some of the gems out there. Awesome games for every genre are still being made, but they don't have Super Advanced Production Values and they won't blast ads on twitch streams. Great small studio games from recent memory off the top of my head... Age of Decadence: excellent single player RPG with great writing and many different character builds/paths. For the real roleplayers out there. On the hardcore side. Features "what the gently caress is going on here" revelations that exceed Bloodborne's (for example). Battle for Wesnoth: Tactical fantasy combat game. Literally free. As in, no upfront cost, no DLC or microtransactions of any kind. Many single player campaigns. Full online multiplayer support. Expeditions: Conquistador/Viking: Pair of games about leading a conquistador/viking party. Done in a kind of Magical Realism way. Combat is standard hex based tactical fare. Strong writing and roleplaying elements. For The King: Weird but charming hybrid of RPG/Roguelike. Control a party of three characters in classic JRPG style combat. Clear dungeons, get loots, and race against time to save the king! Can play alone or with friends, splitting control of characters. Northgard: Strategy game where you play a Viking clan trying to get made ruler of the clans in a mythical land. Great multiplayer game, but you may need to bring your own friends to play. Single player is limited. Star Traders: Frontiers: Single player "be a space captain" game. Think Sid Meier's Pirates but cooler. Trade poo poo, shoot poo poo, be a spy, be and explorer, lead a crew. Throne of Lies: Online Social Deduction game. Think Werewolf but online and more complex. And this is just a few random examples I thought of on the spot. So stop complaining there aren't good creative games anymore, and go play some! Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Dec 5, 2019 |
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Dec 5, 2019 17:26
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StarMinstrel posted:X-Com : Enemy Unknown had it right when they basically remade the original as best as they could, and then, from there, streamlined what was annoying (like having to count movements points, etc.) and any other QoL they could think of. It's also why, as they take more and more chances with the following X-Coms, I'm not expecting 3 to be all that remarkable. It's weird in that many ways, yes Xcom2 is a better game, but I did not like it's themes, timers, or just how strong they made your soldiers. In Xcom1 your abilities were really limited, while in Xcom2 your turn could be spectacular because of the bullshit the new abilities let you pull. It removes the 'tactical purity' of me just having the options of shoot ayy, overwatch, grenade, rocket, maybe run and gun.
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Dec 5, 2019 19:34
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Chomp8645 posted:Great small studio games from recent memory off the top of my head...
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Dec 5, 2019 21:50
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I am literally waiting for Victoria 3
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Dec 6, 2019 02:39
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A Buttery Pastry posted:You forgot the spiritual sequel to Victoria, Disco Elysium. Or, if you will, Age of Decadence but not terrible.
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Dec 6, 2019 07:22
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Vicky 2 question: which files determine where/how often crises happen? I'm playing on a mod that keeps throwing up crises for liberating Bulgaria from the ottomans and they always end with Bulgaria getting all of its core territories so suddenly there is this huge splotch of territory stretching from Macedonia and the Aegean to the Black Sea. Usually what I'll do is just change tags to whatever country is getting the crisis offer and decline it, but that also breaks the AI so I unpause, let the crisis fail, save, then close the game and restart it. And then bulgaria gets another crisis a few years later.
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Dec 6, 2019 15:13
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Inst Age of Decadence related to that no mutants allowed forum where they hate every RPG past the 90s? Anyway I have it here but never played
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Dec 6, 2019 18:03
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Elias_Maluco posted:Inst Age of Decadence related to that no mutants allowed forum where they hate every RPG past the 90s? RPG Codex, not NMA. Well, it might have had NMA links as well, there's some overlap I think. IIRC it's one of these games like Underrail where you need to use a build guide and specialise heavily or be totally screwed. Underrail's pretty fun, by the way, if you cheat yourself infinite points for character building.
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Dec 6, 2019 18:14
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:IIRC it's one of these games like Underrail where you need to use a build guide and specialise heavily or be totally screwed. I'm not sure what you mean by "screwed" in this context. There are many possible permutations on the way the game ends, and events before that point as well. If you mean "unable to finish the game" I think that's pretty unlikely. Almost any build should be able to complete the main quest and end the game, there are so many ways to get there. I think it was harder at launch, but they added a few extra helping hands to later to make sure basically anyone could finish. If you just don't try to make a hybrid character your very first time you should be fine. I think the game even tells you this and recommends "just make a fighter your first time". If you stick to the recommended skills on basically any class you should be ok. If someone willfully ignored this advice, makes a hybrid, and ignores the recommended skills, well maybe they'll get stuck I guess.
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Dec 6, 2019 18:39
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Chomp8645 posted:If you just don't try to make a hybrid character your very first time you should be fine. I think the game even tells you this and recommends "just make a fighter your first time". If you stick to the recommended skills on basically any class you should be ok. (some dumb words are cut cause I thought you're talking about Underrail) But anyway, Age of Decadence feels like exercise in restarting till you know which skills you need in each chapter for your chosen path. There's probably a path you can follow by screwing every skill check though. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 19:55
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ilitarist posted:(some dumb words are cut cause I thought you're talking about Underrail) Most paths have permutations that cater to multiple skills and sometimes you can simply switch to another path, often by betraying your old side. The game's immensely replayable because of this.
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Dec 6, 2019 20:55
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:RPG Codex, not NMA. Well, it might have had NMA links as well, there's some overlap I think. IIRC it's one of these games like Underrail where you need to use a build guide and specialise heavily or be totally screwed. no mutants allowed is also a forum where they hate every game released since 1999 too though
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Dec 6, 2019 21:05
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Cease to Hope posted:no mutants allowed is also a forum where they hate every game released since 1999 too though Now now. I'm sure there are some of them that like Arcanum.
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Dec 6, 2019 22:35
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cool dance moves posted:Vicky 2 question: which files determine where/how often crises happen? It's in defines.lua in the common folder. CRISIS_COOLDOWN_MONTHS.
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Dec 7, 2019 01:16
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The Cheshire Cat posted:It's in defines.lua in the common folder. CRISIS_COOLDOWN_MONTHS. Cooldown months wasn't quite what I was looking for, but you put me on the right track! Theres another setting in that part of defines.lua that controls flashpoint relationship to population, so I changed that. It seems to have worked! Thanks for the tip! E: drat, no dice. That lousy Bulgarian Liberation Movement is real strong--stronger than any of the other liberation movements on the planet. cool dance moves fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 19:21
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can you remove their cores in the save file?
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Dec 8, 2019 03:08
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I can remove the cores, but frankly I'd rather figure out how crises work and fix it that way so it doesn't crop up each time I start a new game. If possible, I'd prefer to limit crises geographically so released countries dont get all their cores, just the lands that are the target of the crisis. Or at least find out what makes liberation movements tick, so I can use that knowledge to tailor mods to my own preferences.
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Dec 8, 2019 04:46
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Eimi posted:CoH2 was trash because of how it treated the Soviets, leaning heavily on myths about the Red Army than actual facts. Days back but CoH2 is actually a pretty fun game to play now and is pretty much the last good RTS out there in my opinion. It's a loving shame that Relic pretty much did away with all the stuff they had that was good when they made Dawn of War 3. The game is still being updated by the way, and is a real fun multiplayer game, the player base has even recently been growing due to the base game being available for free. I've never played the campaign because that poo poo just isn't why I'm interested in the game, but there's like no myths or cartoonish villainy in the actual gameplay depiction of the Soviets if that concerns you. e: Looking up the plot of of the campaign on the wiki (I'm not going to bother to play it because the CoH2 AI is not fun to play against), it kind of looks like the developers mostly just tried to tell a story that they weren't really equipped to tell well as far as their knowledge and writing skills go. The framing device is an inmate in a gulag who's a war veteran being interviewed/interrogated and recounts his experiences in the war. As regards German war crimes there appears to literally be a mission where you liberate a concentration camp. I would guess that a lot about this campaign has been blown out of proportion on the internet, particularly by Russian nationalists, even though it most likely has major flaws as regards portrayal, themes and writing quality. It's a shame though, because as an RTS game it is genuinely a very good game, and one that is still being worked on and and has an active player community. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 18:03
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Playing through it's really not blown out of proportion. Like I don't know anything about this dude other than this video but he goes through all the problems with it from a Russian pov. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m4SCUaBHS8
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Dec 9, 2019 18:34
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Well, blown out of proportion was more my guess than anything else. I'll take your word for it rather than bothering to watch the video though. Still, very good game. Shame that people seem to dismiss it on the basis of a campaign that most likely does not reflect the actual gameplay at all and instead just provides a wrong-headed and poorly told story. Would have been better to just remove the campaign I think, though maybe someone would feel cheated by that. No one I know who plays the game has played the campaign though. e: Anecdotally, in my experience, plenty of Russians play CoH2. Though I guess most of those are of the variety that haven't played and don't care about the campaign. Also lots of them play axis, and I make asusmptions about that, but that said I mostly play Allies (and almost exclusively so in team games), so I mostly encounter others playing Axis in any case. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 18:39
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The most egregious thing is there's a mission as the Soviets where you have to burn down houses with Soviet civilians inside. And then it ends with you burning a field of your own soldiers. It's entirely nonsensical and something that did not happen in reality.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:42
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Well I say the best move is to just remove that campaign then, really. The people who play the game are the type who don't really bother with the campaign and may even be ignorant of its content, while the people who care about the campaign are likely going to be people who don't play the game and may even have been turned off from playing the game because of playing or hearing about the campaign. Win-win if you ask me.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:51
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*Is a Relic developer* Hmm... time to start making the COH2 campaign. I guess I'll do some historical research. *Watches first 15 minutes of Enemy At The Gates* Ok I'm all caught up!
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Dec 9, 2019 18:54
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Anyway. I just jumped at the chance to talk up the game, because really it's a good game and I saw it mentioned and the thread for it is long dead, so I jumped at the chances because I like it I really want more RTSes like it to be made.* There was recently a World Championship that went down about a month ago with a $10,000 first prize. Some very good Soviet play in the finals (and a hilarious US jeep strat in the group stage). *I also seriously think it's a shame that is seems like a poorly done and wrong-headed campaign mode might possibly be turning people away from the game based on factors that have nothing to do with the actual game (where I remind you the Soviets are actually really well represented as regards range and variety of equipment and the potency of the faction and all that) Randarkman fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 18:57
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It's actually an unfun game. But relic is really good at making games with potentially interesting ideas that fall apart in implementation and are prone to enormous abuse. It will never cease to amuse me that in both CoH games, the Germans get stronger as the game goes on while the Allies get weaker.
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Dec 9, 2019 19:03
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Minenfeld! posted:It's actually an unfun game. But relic is really good at making games with potentially interesting ideas that fall apart in implementation and are prone to enormous abuse. The first 40k game they did is the only RTS I've ever played which was actually fun to me so I have something of a soft spot for them
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Dec 9, 2019 19:09
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I'm really surprised the CoH2 is still being developed. Didnt the game come out close to a decade ago and was a complete failure at the time?
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Dec 9, 2019 19:10
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Minenfeld! posted:It's actually an unfun game. But relic is really good at making games with potentially interesting ideas that fall apart in implementation and are prone to enormous abuse. I'd say that's not so much an issue anymore at least not in 1v1s now that they've done away with the old call-in meta. All heavy tanks in the game are dependent on commanders nad previously were only locked behind command points gained throughout the match from engaging in combat, so you could do pretty well by ignoring teching and instead waiting until you unlocked that heavy tank then get it out fast with the resources you saved up from forgoing teching. This particularly benefitted the Germans who normally have to do alot of traditional teching. This has been done away with now and good riddance. The game is terribly unbalanced in larger team games though due to the rest of the game not really scaling well with heavy tanks and there not really being a downside to them besides cost compared to medium tanks (which is less of an issue in large team games). That and indirect fire and especially rockety artillery becoming supremely important in the later stages of team games. This is somethign that benefits mostly just the German factions and the Soviets because those have universal access to rocket artillery and lots of viable commanders with the heavy tanks. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I'm really surprised the CoH2 is still being developed. Didnt the game come out close to a decade ago and was a complete failure at the time? Don't really know much about it. I started playing in about ~2016 and it seems that it's really just had a steady player base, increased exposrue via streaming and replay casts on youtube and a slow increase in the number of players over the years due to word of mouth stuff and there not really being that many other RTSes out there still. I also think there was a pretty big infusion of new players in December of last year when the main game became free (you still have to buy the Western front factions if you want to play them). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 19:11
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RabidWeasel posted:The first 40k game they did is the only RTS I've ever played which was actually fun to me so I have something of a soft spot for them I enjoyed both 40k games. The second warhammer game was a bit janky since it included a lot of CoH2 which doesn't always make sense for 40k, but I like that there was no base building. Doesn't excuse CoH2's story mode but, the gameplay is separate from that.
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Dec 9, 2019 19:11
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I never knew City of Heroes was so pro-nazi and anti-soviet.
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Dec 9, 2019 19:19
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the CoH2 Battle of the Bulge campaign (Ardennes Assault?) is actually very good and kind of makes up for how horrifyingly stupid the the base campaign is... kind of
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Dec 9, 2019 19:25
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COH2 is a lot of fun, just don't play the campaign. Even skirmish mode vs the AI is pretty fun until you get the hang of things. The player base is actually a little higher now than it was a few years ago and it still gets regular balance patches, new free commanders and new maps.Minenfeld! posted:It will never cease to amuse me that in both CoH games, the Germans get stronger as the game goes on while the Allies get weaker. The Soviet IS-2 is arguably the best heavy tank in the game in the current meta. I don't think any faction has a clear late game advantage at this point.
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Dec 9, 2019 19:34
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