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Nostalgic Cashew posted:322 seems reasonable in terms of energy. And abrp has been very accurate for me to date provided I was honest with the inputs. If you put in like 125% reference speed and like 85 mph top speed it should give accurate numbers. If you roll in to a 12 space gas station during a heavy travel time and find all the pumps are full and you're sixth in line waiting, how long do you think you'd have to wait before getting a pump? If we assume that on average it takes five minutes for someone to pull in, start the pump, fill their tank, close up, and clear the way for the next person (which seems long to me) then statistically you're looking at a space opening up every 25 seconds and around three minutes to wait to get a pump. You'll almost certainly be back on the highway in less than 10 minutes. If you imagine the same scenario at a 12 space DCFC station, even with an optimistic half hour per vehicle turnaround time, you're looking at two and a half minutes per space or roughly 15 minutes before you're even plugged in and 45 before you're back on the road. If anyone in the lineup has an older car that can't charge as fast, needs to get every last kWh in there to get across a charging gap, or just wanders off and doesn't come back immediately when their car's done you could easily lose an hour even if you only need 20 minutes of charge time. It takes a lot more DCFC plugs than gas pumps to support the same vehicles-per-hour refueling throughput. Genderfluent posted:It will get better over time, but we have to be realistic. Ola posted:This is cool. In my home town Bergen, Norway, we're getting some new trolley buses. They've been around for many decades, only one line still has the overhead cables. Now they're extending the line through the city centre and building cables on the other side of it. The buses have a 55 kWh battery which charges while it's driving so it can cross through the city on battery power and hook up to the cables while moving afterwards. wolrah fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 22:14
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Ola posted:This is cool. In my home town Bergen, Norway, we're getting some new trolley buses. They've been around for many decades, only one line still has the overhead cables. Now they're extending the line through the city centre and building cables on the other side of it. The buses have a 55 kWh battery which charges while it's driving so it can cross through the city on battery power and hook up to the cables while moving afterwards. Cool. They tried to get rid of downtown Vancouver's overhead trollies in the 70s and replace them with diesel buses but didn't succeed. With the way Vancouver is spread out now being able to jump between population centres could be a real benefit.
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Dec 7, 2019 03:17
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Hexigrammus posted:Cool. They tried to get rid of downtown Vancouver's overhead trollies in the 70s and replace them with diesel buses but didn't succeed. With the way Vancouver is spread out now being able to jump between population centres could be a real benefit. They wanted to do that here in Seattle because some of the busses running gear was from 1979 but they ended up ordering new ones that can go off wire for 3 miles or so, which is nice if there's some kind of accident or detour or whatever. I'm curious how the electric bus trial is going here, haven't seen any news on them lately. Edit: some of those old Skodas in light rail form are legendary and still in use in a lot of places.
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Dec 7, 2019 03:34
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Charles posted:They wanted to do that here in Seattle because some of the busses running gear was from 1979 but they ended up ordering new ones that can go off wire for 3 miles or so, which is nice if there's some kind of accident or detour or whatever. I'm glad they're keeping these around, it's such a great idea, especially when the infrastructure is already built. I have fond memories of riding the electric buses through the bus tunnels as a kid. My dad designed most of the substations that convert the 23kV grid to, uhhhh, like 1.4kV? For the busses, it's an awesome system. The area's converting a lot of ferries to "hybrid" soon too, so they'll charge every time they dock, then do part if their route on battery power. I'm all for this, when I was growing up in Seattle the air was always clear, and there were never any major fires in the Western part of the State, in fact it was part of my home state's mythos that the Japanese tried to ignite our forests with incendiary balloons, but failed because they were too damp. I recently returned to WA after a decade on the East Coast, and the change in air quality is dramatic, there's a ton more visible haze from pollutants, and wildfires are a regular occurrence, it's a painful and visceral indication of climate change for me. Speaking of, my old Ranger is guzzling gas, and I think the motor is about shot, in any case I'm not keen on it being my DD anymore, and I'm pretty sold on my new daily driver being an EV. Right now I'm looking at a CPO Nissan Leaf, 2016 or 2017, with the 30kW battery and 6.6kW charger, my commute to work is 46 miles round trip, but mostly highway which is outside the Leaf's efficient regime, basically I should be able to get to work and back, run errands, charge a little, and visit my GF who lives 50 miles round trip in the other direction, all without any fear of range anxiety. I think I can even make it up to the local ski slopes that are ~130ish miles away if I plan ChaDeMo charging appropriately. The Leafs I'm looking at are about $14k-16k, they come with a 7yr/100,000mi warranty from Nissan, is there any reason anyone can see that I shouldn't pull the trigger on one of these, or that I should go with another EV besides the 2016-2017 Leaf? I'm flirting with the idea of living a carbon-neutral lifestyle, I think with an EV that charges off a 90% carbon-free grid, growing a significant portion of my own food, and heating my house with wood that grows on my 3 acres by sustainably harvesting Alder, and planting big Firs in their place, I can get pretty close, when you consider all the variables inherent in where base load power production ends up and the inherent burden of being a consumer and whatnot.
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Dec 7, 2019 08:25
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My gut feeling tells me you'll be cutting it close. Are you able to charge at work? Does this not have the quick charge? Are you going to have solar panels?
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Dec 7, 2019 08:58
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I'm not too concerned about work, 107mi range should get me 46mi round trip without issue, right? I could probably work something out to slow charge at work if need be. Quick charge is a necessity, actually I'm confused on this point, "quick charge" means the 6.6kW onboard charger, because all 16-17 Leafs come with ChaDeMo DC quick charge, right? This info is a gently caress to Google. Looking at adding solar to the roof when we redo it in a couple years, I might have wind potential too. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 09:21
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It will be fine for that trip. Maybe try thinking about how it would work if you needed to go to a few places during a long day. Maybe that type of scenario isn't common for you
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Dec 7, 2019 09:53
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I have a few detours I hit regularly, pet store/lunch/groceries, but that's single-digit mileage, anything work-related puts me in the Dodge Caravan, or Polaris Ranger (EV) that kinda inspired me to look at EVs in the first place. Anything longer and I'll be looking at spending time at home, or ChaDeMo, which is robust in the greater Seattle area.
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Dec 7, 2019 10:05
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Keep in mind the reduced range in the winter too.
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Dec 7, 2019 16:23
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Tesla owners, I was looking at reddit (yeah, I know it's bad) and found this (https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/e7f2y0/psa_new_owners_rotate_your_tires_and_dont_floor/) thread where people are reporting having to change their tires at 30,000 miles or less. Is this common on Teslas? Seems almost impossible to go through tires that fast
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Dec 7, 2019 16:39
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Genderfluent posted:Tesla owners, I was looking at reddit (yeah, I know it's bad) and found this (https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/e7f2y0/psa_new_owners_rotate_your_tires_and_dont_floor/) thread where people are reporting having to change their tires at 30,000 miles or less. Is this common on Teslas? Seems almost impossible to go through tires that fast Someone who’s never owned a sports sedan or sports car before. My GTO ate a set of tires ever ~25k miles.
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Dec 7, 2019 16:42
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Genderfluent posted:Tesla owners, I was looking at reddit (yeah, I know it's bad) and found this (https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/e7f2y0/psa_new_owners_rotate_your_tires_and_dont_floor/) thread where people are reporting having to change their tires at 30,000 miles or less. Is this common on Teslas? Seems almost impossible to go through tires that fast Better grip generally requires a softer compound that wears faster. It's a tradeoff. Long-lasting tires tend not to be high performance tires. 30,000 miles is actually pretty good for decent tires. I'll be lucky if the ones I've got last 20,000.
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Dec 7, 2019 16:42
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My Miata's factory tires only lasted 20ish thousand miles before needing to be replaced.
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Dec 7, 2019 16:44
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Plus you have to factor in people using instant torque all the loving time because "bro your Miata can't beat my Tesla"
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Dec 7, 2019 17:19
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Imagine being irate about getting 30k out of tires on a ~5000lb sedan with ~400 hp.
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Dec 7, 2019 17:32
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Elviscat posted:....The Leafs I'm looking at are about $14k-16k, they come with a 7yr/100,000mi warranty from Nissan, is there any reason anyone can see that I shouldn't pull the trigger on one of these, or that I should go with another EV besides the 2016-2017 Leaf? Having not done the work, I'd say see how a 16/17 Kia Soul EV compares. They seem very comparable, but you may prefer various features/dimensions. I don't know if a 16/17 Leaf still uses a passive thermally managed battery, the Soul at least is heated/cooled via the temp in the cabin. There's a couple comparison videos on youtube.
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Dec 7, 2019 17:55
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Genderfluent posted:Tesla owners, I was looking at reddit (yeah, I know it's bad) and found this (https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/e7f2y0/psa_new_owners_rotate_your_tires_and_dont_floor/) thread where people are reporting having to change their tires at 30,000 miles or less. Is this common on Teslas? Seems almost impossible to go through tires that fast
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Dec 7, 2019 18:15
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Elviscat posted:I'm not too concerned about work, 107mi range should get me 46mi round trip without issue, right? I could probably work something out to slow charge at work if need be. Quick charge is a necessity, actually I'm confused on this point, "quick charge" means the 6.6kW onboard charger, because all 16-17 Leafs come with ChaDeMo DC quick charge, right? This info is a gently caress to Google. 6.6kW is what you get from an AC charger. Not sure on 16/17 but the newer model chargers it comes with can plug into a 14-50 outlet and draw 240V / 32 amps. Any public J1772 should be able to provide that too. The CHAdeMO DC is way faster, not sure what the numbers are on that. Also all the people burning wood when it's 50F / 10C out right now are making me literally sick. Put on catalytic converters if you get a wood stove.
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Dec 7, 2019 18:46
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MrYenko posted:Someone who’s never owned a sports sedan or sports car before. It's true. The Bolt is the sportiest car I've ever owned.
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Dec 7, 2019 19:00
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Elviscat posted:I'm glad they're keeping these around, it's such a great idea, especially when the infrastructure is already built. I have fond memories of riding the electric buses through the bus tunnels as a kid. Your situation was very similar to mine, and I was strongly considering 3 options based on max value per $: 1. 30kWh leaf (exactly like you) 2. Used 2017 -18 Bolt 3. Model 3 SR+ In my situation, I have a charger at home, but with the situation as it is, I probably wouldn't be able to charge every night. If that might ever be an issue, you might consider a longer ranged option. Also 40 miles is probably on the edge of what you can charge daily with a level 1 charger, so I would say you need level 2. I ended up driving the bolt and the model 3. Both were nice. What really helped me though, was doing lots of what if's on A Better Route Planner at different temperatures/destinations to really get a good feel of the range reality. In the end I went with the Model 3 SR+, but could have easily gone with the leaf if I wanted to keep my outlay lower. You also might try a used Bolt - in the Seattle area, (where I was looking) you could find Bolts ~$20-23K.
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Dec 7, 2019 19:50
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Thanks for all the replies! What's really motivating me on the Leaf is that they're available for so cheap, and with an excellent manufacturer's warranty. I haven't had a car payment in 10 years, and I don't want one now, so $15k is about the top of my price range, there's some used eGolfs and Focus EVs around for a similar price, but I don't trust the compliance cars in a state where they weren't really sold. I was a journeyman electrician in a past life, so adding any sort of charging is trivial, my garage is set up as a weld shop right now so I have a 60amp/240V service out there right now, that should be sufficient. Speaking of, finding clear data on charging options is way harder than it should be, my understanding is that if I feed the Leaf's J1772 240V via the included charging cable, and a NEMA 15-40 outlet (or whatever 240v outlet) that it'll horf down 6.6kW, is that correct? Can I set the car up to only draw 3.8kW if I want to charge it on a 20A circuit? Or do I need to get a separate L2 charger from Clippercreek or whoever to charge the car? All I really need is for the car to get me to work and back, and be able to recover that range overnight, I think that 107mi should cover that, with allowances for weather and battery degradation, I'm in Western WA, so temps outside 20F-90F are pretty rare. I'm also keeping the Danger Ranger because I need a truck for truck stuff, and I have 2 ICE powered motorcycles, so if the power goes out, or I get drunk and forget to plug the bike in, or I need to go somewhere and don't have time to charge etc I'm spoiled for options. I'll probably try and make a trip up to Steven's Pass or something (140ish miles) with ChaDeMo charging just for fun at some point, but it's not a necessary use case. E: I downloaded A Better Route Planner, and now I'm having too much fun fiddling around with settings and routes, for my commute it adds about 10 minutes on some slower back roads, but cuts a few miles off, looks like I could experience 45% battery degradation, and still make it to work and back in the worst possible weather without having to charge. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 20:42
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On my brother's 2019, the included charger only works with a standard wall outlet or a 14-50 plug.
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Dec 7, 2019 21:07
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I think you're on the right track using it as a commute car and more limited use. Having gas cars for long trips, etc makes sense. I believe only the 2019 charger has the 14-50 + regular adapter.
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Dec 7, 2019 21:10
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Elviscat posted:Can I set the car up to only draw 3.8kW if I want to charge it on a 20A circuit? Or do I need to get a separate L2 charger from Clippercreek or whoever to charge the car? It should draw whatever is capable on the plug it's on. I hope you're not looking to setup a 20 amp circuit on a 40 amp plug.
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Dec 7, 2019 21:12
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LRADIKAL posted:I believe only the 2019 charger has the 14-50 + regular adapter. Yeah maybe I should go back to basics, thought they had it understood, but, I should use proper terminology which I didn't in the post above. The charger is actually part of the car. In the first-gen Leaf, you could have a 3.6kWh charger or an optional 6.6kWh charger. The Chademo port was only on the SL trim too I believe. In the 2nd gen, they all have a 6.6kWh charger or 50kWh Chademo. The thing you plug into the wall is called an EVSE. Not all Leafs come with one. On the second-gen, it's SL or higher trim standard, otherwise it's about a $1000 accessory. That one is standard outlet or 14-50 only. Despite plugging into a 14-50 outlet, it draws ~30amps max, which is just a limitation of the charger built into the car. If the car you're buying doesn't come with a portable EVSE, just buy a Clippercreek or whatever that matches what you have in your garage. Edit: They all should come with a portable charge cable (EVSE) for 120V Kia Soul Enthusias fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 21:26
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Charles posted:Yeah maybe I should go back to basics, thought they had it understood, but, I should use proper terminology which I didn't in the post above. Ok, this is very helpful,, about the EVSE, looks like all Leafs support 3.3kW charging, and 6.6 is an option, so all I have to do is get the EVSE that my Leaf supports, and wire appropriately I think I was overthinking it. 3kWish should be fine to get near 100% with overnight charging. Nitrousoxide posted:It should draw whatever is capable on the plug it's on. I hope you're not looking to setup a 20 amp circuit on a 40 amp plug. I have a bunch of 20amp and 30 circuits feeding 50 amp plugs for my welders, it's totally permissible as long as the wire is fused correctly, and the actual load is within the capacity of the fusing and wire (plus derate to 80% for "continuous" loads, i.e. if your 6.6kW charger draws 27 amps, you have to go up to a 40amp breaker and wiring, because a 30amp breaker and #10 is only good for 24 amps continuous according to the NEC) The reason chargers use 50A NEMA outlets seems to be mostly for commonality and ubiquity, you can run out to any hardware store and pick up a stove outlet, if they used a bunch of different twist-lock/pin-and-sleeve etc connectors sourcing them would be a pain.
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Dec 7, 2019 22:03
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I should probably shut the gently caress up and test drive some cars, huh?
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Dec 7, 2019 22:06
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Elviscat posted:Thanks for all the replies! That's rational. I will say however that it could still meet yours (or others) criteria. For example I just bought a used 2016 Soul EV for $14k total (43k miles), in Arizona where it was never sold. There is a Kia dealership in my metro area certified to work on the EV version (I called around to verify, like you say this is important), so I know I'm covered in the event of an issue. Though I bought it used I found out they had just replaced the battery, and regardless of that the EV components are still covered under original warranty until Nov 2026, so still a long warranty. I can buy an extended if I'm worried, was already quoted $1600. Not trying to persuade you so much as help everyone see available options. I honestly feel that now is the time for everyone to shoot for having a gas vehicle for road trips, and an EV for around town. This increases EV adoption rate while still allowing people to road trip easily. The used EV market is getting flooded by low cost lease returns, and people are snatching them up. It's awesome and can help with chicken/egg adoption. Elviscat posted:I should probably shut the gently caress up and test drive some cars, huh? Absolutely. Per my earlier post a few pages back, no amount of research uncovers all the stuff you want/need to know. Test drives are good for that. 
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Dec 7, 2019 22:47
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angryrobots posted:Imagine being irate about getting 30k out of tires on a ~5000lb sedan with ~400 hp. Elon told them his cars don’t cost anything to run or maintain.
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Dec 7, 2019 23:54
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Imagine their surprise when they need new shocks or, heaven forbid, tie rods.
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Dec 8, 2019 00:00
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What was the cause of all the whompy wheels, bad lower control arms?
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Dec 8, 2019 00:55
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I think the factory mxm4 tires on my model 3 awd will be on the wear bars by 15k, the car has 12k on it now and they’re already not fantastic. The pair originally on the back was a few 32nds worse when they were rotated. I don’t think I drive it that hard but 
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Dec 8, 2019 02:42
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I might drive my cars too hard because 30k MILES for a set of tire sounds fantastic, let alone 30k KMs...and this is on a golf TDI.
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Dec 8, 2019 09:48
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I think you said that backwards
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Dec 8, 2019 13:49
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Crap you're right but english isn't my first language. Aanyways I'm sure people get the point..
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Dec 8, 2019 16:40
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sanchez posted:I think the factory mxm4 tires on my model 3 awd will be on the wear bars by 15k, the car has 12k on it now and they’re already not fantastic. The pair originally on the back was a few 32nds worse when they were rotated. I don’t think I drive it that hard but You should find a Michelin authorized tire retailer. You can likely file a warranty claim due to faster tread ware.
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Dec 8, 2019 18:31
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Tesla's offering premium connectivity now, no idea when my Model 3 loses it. If I can use my phone's hotspot, I won't need the live traffic and satellite maps. Edit: as it stands right now, I can't connect to my hotspot while the car's driving. Edit 2: For all Model S, Model X and Model 3 with Premium Interior ordered on or after July 1, 2018, a Premium Connectivity trial is provided for one year, beginning at the delivery date. After the trial ends, Premium Connectivity will be available as a subscription via your Tesla Account. Nfcknblvbl fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 05:09
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Nfcknblvbl posted:
You need to reconnect while driving iirc. Perhaps not an intended feature.
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Dec 9, 2019 07:03
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I wonder how that affects OTA updates? Do you need premium to get them over something other than Wi-Fi? I remember them saying safety updates would always be free OTA, but I don't see them doing a separate software version for essential and non essential updates. I saw someone on a Facebook thread raging the other day that they specifically bought the long range for the premium connectivity, and were not only enraged at standard range buyers having an option to get it, but also that theirs didn't last the lifetime of their car.  As far back as I've read, this was always intended to be a subscription piece with a free year trial for premium interior.Edit: apparently lifetime premium connectivity WAS promised for some cars, but the person had only recently bought their car. Westy543 fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 07:16
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Do I even want to ask about Caraoke?
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Dec 9, 2019 07:16
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