|
Bread Set Jettison posted:LUBE MAN to BLUE MAN gently caress
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 04:59 |
|
|
Bread Set Jettison posted:My bold take is The senator does kill manhattan, but fails to become superpowered because of the Millenium Clock does ???? and everyone briefly celebrates. Then somehow that clock does something squid-bomb-esque like mind control people. OR memory wipe people even. "I anagrammed my name 35 minutes ago"
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:49
|
|
|
Also anagrams to "male bun," another obvious nod to Dr. M.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:49
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:How is it being careless? He saw the future. He can't change the future any more than anybody else in the Watchmen universe can see the future. But like, those things made sense for Will and Angela to do. Just like say, not preventing JFK's assassination meant Manhattan just had to not deliberately alter history. Him getting shot by the cannon required him to do absolutely nothing about the cannon and literally walk right in front of it for no reason while saying Hey its gonna shoot me now! It'd be like if he shot JFK because he knew JFK gets shot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:52
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:But like, those things made sense for Will and Angela to do. Just like say, not preventing JFK's assassination meant Manhattan just had to not deliberately alter history. Him getting shot by the cannon required him to do absolutely nothing about the cannon and literally walk right in front of it for no reason while saying Hey its gonna shoot me now! It'd be like if he shot JFK because he knew JFK gets shot. If he knew he was the one who did it, he would have to. Because he already did. Acting like he could change something is a misunderstanding of how his precognition works in watchmen. This isn't back to the future where you can spawn new timelines. There's just one consistent reality that always was.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:55
|
|
|
Lube Guy anagrams to "bug yule," so I'm guessing the series will end on Christmas Eve in Tulsa with another "extra-dimensional event" (real or fake) involving giant insects. Orchestrated by Petey of course.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:56
|
|
|
Bread Set Jettison posted:My bold take is The senator does kill manhattan, but fails to become superpowered because of the Millenium Clock does ???? and everyone briefly celebrates. Then somehow that clock does something squid-bomb-esque like mind control people. OR memory wipe people even. Or he does become Manhattan and has a 'Lex Luthor becomes Superman' moment where he finally comprehends the intrinsic nature of everything and, suddenly, personal or political agendas don't matter anymore.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:56
|
|
|
It all depends on how ripped the actor is IRL.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:57
|
|
|
What happens when the forum obsessed with dissecting and judging every character's narrative choices meets the character who can make no choices. The assassination of JFK is of no more significance to Dr. M than making waffles, or getting blasted with a tachyon cannon. It happened because it happened. He can no more change what we perceive as the future than we can change what we perceive as the past.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:57
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:If he knew he was the one who did it, he would have to. Because he already did. Acting like he could change something is a misunderstanding of how his precognition works in watchmen. It's kind of more like seeing the future in Dune, where precognition locks in that future. Jon always knew he was getting shot by that cannon in the same way it was a surprise to him when he did get shot by the cannon, because he's getting shot by the cannon in the moment he's with Laurie on Mars and talking to Angela at the bar. It's not the future, it's just all now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 17:58
|
|
|
Even though Manhattan says "I get shot in ten minutes" he truly doesn't know he gets shot until it happens. Which is confusing and probably why Alan Moore had him nude all the time. To distract people with blue dick if they couldn't quite grasp what he was writing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:02
|
|
|
Cash Monet posted:BOLD PREDICTION: The senator is Veidt. It was set up in the third episode when Petey said "I heard he got plastic surgery". The suicide bomber being another red herring assassin like in the book would be another clue. Veidt isn't a white supremacist.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:03
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:If he knew he was the one who did it, he would have to. Because he already did. Acting like he could change something is a misunderstanding of how his precognition works in watchmen. I get that. It's the execution of it that bugs me. The other predestination stuff feels organic; they're things that happened and he isn't altering them. Comedian getting slashed and then shooting the woman for example. This one feels like he DID change the timeline, by making it happen, because it would not happen otherwise. It's not a matter of whether to use his precognition to avoid a surprise: there's no scenario where Dr Manhattan gets shot here without thinking "hey I want to get shot by that ray gun".
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:03
|
|
|
ThanosWasRight posted:Veidt isn't a white supremacist. No, but he seems like the kind of guy who might view them as the "lesser evil" and be willing to work with them in service of whatever his grand design is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:05
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:I get that. It's the execution of it that bugs me. The other predestination stuff feels organic; they're things that happened and he isn't altering them. Comedian getting slashed and then shooting the woman for example. This one feels like he DID change the timeline, by making it happen, because it would not happen otherwise. It's not a matter of whether to use his precognition to avoid a surprise: there's no scenario where Dr Manhattan gets shot here without thinking "hey I want to get shot by that ray gun". Y'all gotta get past "changing the timeline" and poo poo, this ain't back to the future. Also see how you phrase that "Dr. Manhattan wants": want has nothing to do with it. He's just as bound to time as any human or entity, he just knows it. He didn't make a choice to get shot, from his position, there are never any choices to make. If it's frustrating, it pissed off the characters in the comics too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:06
|
|
|
My read on why Dr Manhattan doesn't change history is because he's experiencing all times at once. Him telling Angela "Im going to be captured" is less predicting the future and more him experiencing his capture as he is experiencing his meet cute with Angela. He as a character learns poo poo on a linear timeline while having experienced the future where he already knows this poo poo. So it spills into the past but he still evolves as a character on a linear timeline. Which is why I think he did regretable stuff in vietnam despite experiencing the repercussions in the future at the same time. Its the same kind of confusion mindfuck that someone mentioned earlier with Slaughter House V. The only thing he didnt really experience was the years when the thing was in his head, and I guess a period of time before squidbomb because of magic science. I love weird time travel poo poo but also 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:09
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:I get that. It's the execution of it that bugs me. The other predestination stuff feels organic; they're things that happened and he isn't altering them. Comedian getting slashed and then shooting the woman for example. This one feels like he DID change the timeline, by making it happen, because it would not happen otherwise. It's not a matter of whether to use his precognition to avoid a surprise: there's no scenario where Dr Manhattan gets shot here without thinking "hey I want to get shot by that ray gun". Yeah... I dunno, I kinda like it though. It seems kinda poetic to me? Manhattan is so god-like powerful that he can't really die to normal means. But while he's seemingly invincible, his precognition almost makes him more fragile than humans. Like I said a few pages ago, seeing the future kinda pushes him into this fatalist mentality where he definitely can't change things because they have to be the way he already knows they will be. So he just kinda stops caring. Why would you? I think there's something kinda beautiful in the idea that he dies in a way that wouldn't even happen if he himself didn't let it happen. Yes, with the chicken-and-egg paradox of Will and Angela, they were both doing things they should have done. But it still creates a paradox. Angela can't ask Will about Judd until Will investigates Judd, but Will can't investigate Judd until Angela tells him about it. The only way it works is for it to always have already been that way. Its the same with Manhattan's death. How you wind up there is confusing, but that being how things work is internally consistent, and unchanging. Its constant. The only person who could ever kill Manhattan is Manhattan. Or put even better, the only thing that could kill Manhattan is Time itself.  Something like that.And see the comments above, where most of us are thinking that Jon has some planned end-game here we haven't fully seen yet. That'd make it a bit less of a "Well, guess I'll go stand here and get hit by this raygun because I'm supposed to". But honestly... I'm fine with that. He's not a normal person, and weirdo time paradoxes that are still internally consistent are totally how this universe works. They've proven that and showed it to us in multiple ways. Ugly In The Morning posted:It's kind of more like seeing the future in Dune, where precognition locks in that future. Jon always knew he was getting shot by that cannon in the same way it was a surprise to him when he did get shot by the cannon, because he's getting shot by the cannon in the moment he's with Laurie on Mars and talking to Angela at the bar. It's not the future, it's just all now. It is like Dune, and also like the conflict that Paul Muad-dib the Kwisatz Haderach struggled with, and then what Leto II took up. But it also isn't, in that in Dune there were still an infinite tree of choices he could make, and each of those decisions would spawn infinite trees of choices. He could try to predict the trees but ultimately, eventually, they all ended up going the same way. Except for the one, golden path. Watchmen isn't like that because there's only ever one path. There's no decision trees. There's no doubt. There's never any possibility for anything to go other than the way that Manhattan has forseen. There's zero ambiguity or alternative. What is, is. Bread Set Jettison posted:My read on why Dr Manhattan doesn't change history is because he's experiencing all times at once. Him telling Angela "Im going to be captured" is less predicting the future and more him experiencing his capture as he is experiencing his meet cute with Angela. He as a character learns poo poo on a linear timeline while having experienced the future where he already knows this poo poo. So it spills into the past but he still evolves as a character on a linear timeline. Which is why I think he did regretable stuff in vietnam despite experiencing the repercussions in the future at the same time. Yes!
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:12
|
|
|
Bread Set Jettison posted:My read on why Dr Manhattan doesn't change history is because he's experiencing all times at once. Him telling Angela "Im going to be captured" is less predicting the future and more him experiencing his capture as he is experiencing his meet cute with Angela. He as a character learns poo poo on a linear timeline while having experienced the future where he already knows this poo poo. So it spills into the past but he still evolves as a character on a linear timeline. Which is why I think he did regretable stuff in vietnam despite experiencing the repercussions in the future at the same time. To be fair, it's literally impossible for beings who perceive time linearly to even conceive of perceiving time holistically, so it's not really understandable. We can only kind of hint around it. It reminds me of reading Blindsight and trying to conceive of the idea of intelligence without consciousness.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
No one's asking "why didn't Dr. Manhattan just blow up the gun" in the literal sense of asking why this was a decision Dr. Manhattan made. They're asking it in the sense of "why did the writers have this extremely powerful character get taken out like a dumbass?"
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:16
|
|
|
Also I just realized Dr M may have not been able to see the tachyon cannon quite literally
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:17
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:
Maybe things are kind of building towards that golden path scenario. Kind of like how Leto II (tagged for God Emperor of Dune Spoilers)created enough people that were immune to prescience that it didn't really work anymore, Manhattan is using the 7K's plan to do something that'll shart out enough tachyons that he isn't experiencing everything at once anymore. He talked about there being no God when he was Cal, now maybe he's getting rid of the next closest thing..
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:17
|
|
|
I remember in high school once, during study hall, I was reading Slaughterhouse V and this girl I was sitting next to got really audibly annoyed. I asked her what was wrong and she wanted to know how on Earth I could read an entire series of books about slaughterhouses like that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:19
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:No one's asking "why didn't Dr. Manhattan just blow up the gun" in the literal sense of asking why this was a decision Dr. Manhattan made. They're asking it in the sense of "why did the writers have this extremely powerful character get taken out like a dumbass?" I know and my answer is in response to the latter question.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:19
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:I remember in high school once, during study hall, I was reading Slaughterhouse V and this girl I was sitting next to got really audibly annoyed. I asked her what was wrong and she wanted to know how on Earth I could read an entire series of books about slaughterhouses like that. Peaked at Slaughterhouse III - Dresden Strikes Back imo
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:20
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:I remember in high school once, during study hall, I was reading Slaughterhouse V and this girl I was sitting next to got really audibly annoyed. I asked her what was wrong and she wanted to know how on Earth I could read an entire series of books about slaughterhouses like that. Slaughterhouse 3 is pretty lazy, not Vonnegut's best work zoux posted:Peaked at Slaughterhouse III - Dresden Strikes Back imo JFC zoux 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:20
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:I remember in high school once, during study hall, I was reading Slaughterhouse V and this girl I was sitting next to got really audibly annoyed. I asked her what was wrong and she wanted to know how on Earth I could read an entire series of books about slaughterhouses like that. There is an alternate universe where "Slaughterhouse V" is the fifth installment in a critically panned but immensely profitable gore film franchise. "Saw" is Kurt Vonnegut's novel about a time-traveling carpenter's professional rivalry with Joseph of Nazareth. Weedle fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Dec 10, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:20
|
|
|
Slaughterhouse 3D
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:21
|
|
|
Slaughterhouse X: doublespace, doubletime
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:22
|
|
|
Weedle posted:There is an alternate universe where "Slaughterhouse V" is the fifth installment in a critically panned but immensely profitable gore film franchise. "Saw" is Kurt Vonnegut's novel about a time-traveling carpenter's professional rivalry with Joseph of Nazareth. Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time, but he as become stuck as gently caress in this aquarium tank full of syringes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:27
|
|
|
Slaughterhouse no. V by Lou Bega
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:28
|
|
|
This show: The sheriff of Tulsa is hanged, turns out he had a Klan robe hidden in his closet, turns it really was the old man in a wheelchair, also he's the main character's grandfather, and he was actually the thought-to-be-white first superhero, and he got the sheriff to hang himself using white supremacist cult brainwashing technology, also his granddaughter unwittingly gave him the idea to do it via communicating with him through a being who experiences time- : BUT WHY DIDN'T HE BLOW UP THE TELEPORTER GUN?The characters explicitly talk about acting in the face of inevitability in between egg laying metaphors. Jon tells Angela in 6 months they'll argue, she'll say "get out", and he will leave; she can alter the details ("Leave"), but it still happens. She explains the unfairness of Jon not having to make sacrifices or fear the future like she does; he falls in love with her because she tries to save him despite knowing the outcome. He wants to do the same for her, because it would be one of those lofty achievements he's fond of, and 'dying' fighting the 7th Cal. offers a means to do so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:30
|
|
|
Mother Knight, the acclaimed prequel to Batman Begins.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:30
|
|
|
Bread Set Jettison posted:My bold take is The senator does kill manhattan, but fails to become superpowered because of the Millenium Clock does ???? and everyone briefly celebrates. Then somehow that clock does something squid-bomb-esque like mind control people. OR memory wipe people even. I suspect something like HJ, Sister Night, the Senator, and 7K getting Manhattan powers and a brief race war ensuing between omnipotent omniscient beings before the clock goes off and does something to create mass amnesia. So everyone is in the tunnel of love at the end, and forgets they have Manhattan's abilities, so the balance is set to a new status quo at the end, hopefully where the nazis lose.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:40
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:But like, those things made sense for Will and Angela to do. Just like say, not preventing JFK's assassination meant Manhattan just had to not deliberately alter history. Him getting shot by the cannon required him to do absolutely nothing about the cannon and literally walk right in front of it for no reason while saying Hey its gonna shoot me now! It'd be like if he shot JFK because he knew JFK gets shot. Nope he couldn't see exactly how it happens because of the tachyons. For all he knew, running away from the deactivated cannon was how he'd end up getting got. You're still thinking about it from your linear perspective.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:No one's asking "why didn't Dr. Manhattan just blow up the gun" in the literal sense of asking why this was a decision Dr. Manhattan made. They're asking it in the sense of "why did the writers have this extremely powerful character get taken out like a dumbass?" The writers didn't. He didn't do anything dumb.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:44
|
|
|
We're also not considering that Manhattan may have wanted to be involuntarily teleported to wherever Keene is. Keene's clearly shielding himself with tachyon emitters so Jon has no other way to find and confront him. I'm waiting for the memes of Keene pointing a tachyon weapon at Manhattan, then the Dr turns it to steam and tells him "Tachyon these nuts."
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
Antifa Turkeesian posted:Mother Knight, the acclaimed prequel to Batman Begins. Good pull, Mother Night is a lovely connection to Watchmen in the exploration of why we pretend to be a role and how the act of pretending changes us.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
crazy cloud posted:I suspect something like HJ, Sister Night, the Senator, and 7K getting Manhattan powers and a brief race war ensuing between omnipotent omniscient beings before the clock goes off and does something to create mass amnesia. So everyone is in the tunnel of love at the end, and forgets they have Manhattan's abilities, so the balance is set to a new status quo at the end, hopefully where the nazis lose. So, The Big-O basically? I could see them going in a direction of "all the masked supers now have actual powers, what does that mean?" although that'd also cost a lot of money. Everybody getting powers but forgetting they have them would be cute but that feels a bit too simple for me...
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:48
|
|
|
He made waffles for his last supper, walked on water, and then for sooooooooooome reason just happened to let himself die mysteriously even when he had the power to stop it hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 04:59 |
|
|
That reminds me, big ups for Regina King and her delivery of "Get the gently caress up off the pool"
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2019 18:51
|
|