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Friday Facts #324 was posted. Trees moving in the wind, biters getting better sound, optimisations. All of that is pretty good to say the very least. Nearly always some pretty great things to read in these.
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Dec 7, 2019 02:38
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| # ? May 25, 2024 23:09 |
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Don't think this has been posted here, but if I missed it, sorry about that. This makes anything I've done, or ever will do in Factorio just completely pathetic by comparison. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY2nxVNBHQs
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Dec 8, 2019 21:14
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The Locator posted:Don't think this has been posted here, but if I missed it, sorry about that. I'm slightly scared. This is some genuine Von Neumann apocalypse poo poo.
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Dec 9, 2019 03:40
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Dude probably could have single handedly ended cancer with less effort, but he chose to build a virtual factory. ... He made the right choice.
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Dec 9, 2019 04:15
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What's insane is how little time it took him to do all that; I did a pretty casual cell LTN krastorio/IR game and it took me ~160 hours to get to this (all research complete+1 level in infinites). I wonder if the game clock slows down in proportion to the FPS, so the "time" he took is several multiples of that as his FPS goes down, or maybe I'm just really slow. (my cell size is twice his - you can tell because I used a very similar locomotive staging area, one left from the middle)
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Dec 9, 2019 05:08
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Bhodi posted:What's insane is how little time it took him to do all that; I did a pretty casual cell LTN krastorio/IR game and it took me ~160 hours to get to this (all research complete+1 level in infinites). I wonder if the game clock slows down in proportion to the FPS, so the "time" he took is several multiples of that as his FPS goes down, or maybe I'm just really slow. (my cell size is twice his - you can tell because I used a very similar locomotive staging area, one left from the middle) Another interesting detail about his build. The cells are all square, but everything larger (whatever he called his sections, as well as the overall factory) was built in perfect 16:9 for your viewing pleasure (assuming you have a 16:9 aspect ratio monitor of course).
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Dec 9, 2019 05:30
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26 hours and a base something like the biggest i've ever built: "so i began to build the real starter base" 
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Dec 9, 2019 10:50
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Wallrod posted:26 hours and a base something like the biggest i've ever built: "so i began to build the real starter base" Yeah. It was right at that point I was thinking, drat this is pretty and impressive. and then welp Shalebridge Cradle fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 11:30
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The Locator posted:Don't think this has been posted here, but if I missed it, sorry about that.  Factorio goals, Jesus Christ.
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Dec 9, 2019 11:39
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NachtSieger posted:Factorio goals, Jesus Christ. I'm not sure that's a great goal...please note the 2-3 times the dude was like "and here's the point where I ragequit factorio for 2 months"
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Dec 9, 2019 12:42
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Half-wit posted:I'm not sure that's a great goal...please note the 2-3 times the dude was like "and here's the point where I ragequit factorio for 2 months" Yeah but that's how I play Factorio. I enter a fey mood, play it until I blend several days together into a strange depression funk, and then start dropping off like a cliff until I get sick of it and then quit to repeat. I enjoy it 
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Dec 9, 2019 12:52
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Bhodi posted:What's insane is how little time it took him to do all that; I did a pretty casual cell LTN krastorio/IR game and it took me ~160 hours to get to this (all research complete+1 level in infinites). I wonder if the game clock slows down in proportion to the FPS, so the "time" he took is several multiples of that as his FPS goes down, or maybe I'm just really slow. (my cell size is twice his - you can tell because I used a very similar locomotive staging area, one left from the middle) I have to wonder how much time he must have put in before this run to have everything perfectly planned out in advance like this. Even his (gigantic) “pre-starter” base has exactly the right amount of space left everywhere for additional stuff he doesn’t until hours later.
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Dec 9, 2019 14:48
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What's up with a cell structure? I've never seen it before. Is it a megabase thing?
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Dec 9, 2019 15:14
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It's probably easiest to compare it to the bus structure that you're already familiar with. Both are ways of organizing your base so that all the various materials get to where they need to be. If you've played through to launching a rocket and beyond with everything built off a main bus, you've probably noticed some shortcomings in that design - most notably throughput. You need to keep making the bus wider (taking up more space) and adding extra lines of resources in order for machines at the end of the bus to have enough resources to work with. Also the bunch of messing around with belts for everything you need to add to the end. A cell structure solves that throughput issue by not using belts as the main backbone, and instead uses trains as the primary way of moving resources around. You lay out a rail network (like the one in the map screenshot, though obviously you'd start smaller to begin with and build it out as you needed the space), and then build individual cells to handle individual aspects of production. Each cell has train stops for input and output, and you use trains to get materials and components to the cells that need them. Adding a new cell to produce a new component is straightforward - you just add a train to bring the appropriate inputs from where they're created to the new cell, and the train pathfinding handles the the fiddly details instead of you having to manually mess around with belts.
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Dec 9, 2019 15:27
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The LTN mod really is at the heart of all these cell-type bases. My goal last game was to try out the cell format with logistic train network (LTN) mod and I absolutely loved it. LTN cuts down on a lot of organization hassle; if you wire it up properly (or copy someone's design) you can just slap down provider station with literally no configuration, run some belts to it, and you're done. Then you can slap down a requester station, select what type of goods you want and how much the station should keep stocked - the LTN mod handles the rest. The best part is if you have a mod that includes warehouses and loaders you can have a single station feed 6+ belts of different kinds of materials, all supplied from a single station. You can do it with filter inserters but it's harder to get belts saturated. Either way, you get to compartmentalize production of a particular product into a single area, organized all from a single material dropoff. You don't have to configure trains at all, they just self-organize. It's fantastic. I was never super happy with my roundabouts or the track book I used, but copied and improved on the provider and requester stations I found online. Getting the stations to work correctly was the largest hassle because all the guides on it were 45 minutes of some guy slowly talking over a youtube video and presenting flawed designs and then going "but this doesn't work because..." when all I really wanted was a few screenshots and/or a blueprint book. I ended up having to load up a sandbox game and paste their designs and then copy the circuit network from there. If anyone is interested in trying LTN for the first time and wants such a thing, let me know. Here are some screenshots of a few iterations of my stations. After trying the cell format with LTN I'm not going to look back. It was such a pleasure to try something new beyond the normal bus and it's really a timesaver. You don't even have to name the train stops. It doesn't matter! You never open the info window. This is one of my early requester stations. If you look on the right, I've moused over the combinator. That -4000 means "try and keep 4000 coal stocked at this". That's literally the only configuration you need to do once you put the blueprint down. Provider stations need no configuration at all.  Early provider  Late-game provider example of multiple products in one station (sensor on the belt only keeps 20k of each type stocked so the warehouse doesn't fill up with one type of good). Multiple good provider stations don't work with belts as above because goods will sit on the belt but late game stack inserters can feed directly faster than it can feed a belt anyway if you have a long-handled stack inserter mod of some kind.  Late-game requester example with multiple products and belts for high-capacity export. Belts work fine in requester stations.  I just put filters on the loaders (you can do the same with filter inserters) and each belt gets a different product:  Example of wanting to use the warehouse as a intermediate storage depot as well, I funnel all from the top immediately into the bottom and then directly pull/place into it for convenience. Ugly, but it works: 
Bhodi fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 17:49
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The Locator posted:Another interesting detail about his build. The cells are all square, but everything larger (whatever he called his sections, as well as the overall factory) was built in perfect 16:9 for your viewing pleasure (assuming you have a 16:9 aspect ratio monitor of course). He created the world to be a specific size, it looks like. He did a LP of the first small base as he rushed rails and loco, You can watch him do a bunch of the early game on his channel. There was a big skip where he did the first few cells and then you can see him stream some of the rest. He didn't use LTN at all which is absolute madness. I looked around and I don't think he made blueprints either, just used the copy-paste tool on individual cells once he built them by hand? 
Bhodi fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 18:33
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Equally impressive is this 32x32 factory challenge that's going around. Here's the first one I've seen that does self-contained power generation. https://old.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/e866e9/32x32_factory_powered_3_science_per_minute/ The record is around 9 SPM for one that gets its power from outside of the cell.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:38
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Bhodi posted:
Well, I know what I’m doing when I get home from work...
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Dec 9, 2019 18:51
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about LTN
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Bhodi posted:If anyone is interested in trying LTN for the first time and wants such a thing, let me know. I've used LTN for some time, but you should  this, I'd love to see how you solved some of the same challenges.I have an LTN station that combines with another mod (Ghost scanner, I think) that will request any ghosts in its logistic network from the train network, then dump any overages (really anything that it doesn't have as a static request) to a trash train for recycling. It owns and I'd post it but I'm out of town this week, so if people want it, I can post next week when I'm back.
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Dec 9, 2019 18:57
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Haven't played Factorio in a few months, (save a short attempt at a modded game with friends where we got quickly overwhelmed by the demands of whatever mod it was we tried) and just reading this thread and seeing people talk train setups is making me want to find time to play (despite having a dozen other things I need to get through) because getting your trains set up and automated is such a satisfying feeling.
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Dec 9, 2019 19:12
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For Industrial Revolution, has anyone figured any really good ore processing setups for ore washing? This has turned out to be the biggest challenge of the mod for me, because when you have to move around water and dirty water in those huge quantities, you end up hitting the practical limits of the fluid mechanics pretty quickly in a way that's never been an issue for me in any other part of the game. I know I've got the ratios right, and I've tried a bunch of different stuff, but it's usually not quite enough and I end up having to add extra pipe spaghetti and a whole bunch of pumps just to keep the machines from backing up. Plus it's often hard to even diagnose the problem and find the bottleneck, because the fluid mechanics are kind of opaque.
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Dec 9, 2019 19:26
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nullfunction posted:I've used LTN for some time, but you should LTN Quick how-to. Imgur Album: https://imgur.com/a/GnzlySr Blueprint Book: https://pastebin.com/AB0NjRGN (This only has basic stock stations, not the krastorio ones I posted above) These are for right hand drive trains (the correct drive) LTN stations come in 3 flavors: provider station, requester station, and depot. The depot is where trains sit waiting to be dispatched from provider to requester stations. It's a holding area for idle trains and you'll want 1:1 depot/loco at start, then gradually more depots as needed. In a busy base trains won't sit at the depot so you won't need strict 1:1. LTN Station Lights Green light: Station ready and waiting Yellow light: Locomotive queued for pickup or dropoff Blue light: Train currently at station. For depot, train idle and waiting for dispatch. Purple light: Invalid Configuration. Track not connected? Miswire? Two non-depot stations have the same name? (most common) SUPER QUICK SETUP 1. Get the blueprint book 2. Slap down a provider station, requester station, and a few depots. Remember, you can still use blueprints without bots. Mouse over the ghost, hit q, then left click. 2a OR slap down the stubs and at provider+requestor stations, from the pole, wire green to all the chests and red to all filter inserters to/from the cargo cars; set your filter inserters to "Set Filters" mode. 3. Name your depot station(s) 'depot', Add a locomotive or two down, send it to the depot. The light at the depot should turn blue. 4. Add in your material type and a negative amount that you want at the requester station's constant combinator (-4000 coal to request 4000 coal to be delivered to your requester station) 5. Have that amount available in any of the provider stations (minimum of 1000 units) 6. That's it, you're done. You should see a yellow light and a train should be dispatched to load the goods at the provider to be delivered to the requester and offloaded. If you remove some of the materials, another train will be filled and delivered automatically. More in-depth guide: PROVIDER Station  Place the LTN Stop. Place a pole, constant combinator, arithmetic combinator. The LTN stop has 3 valid connections: Input, Output, and Stop itself. The arithmetic combinator has an Input and an Output side. The constant has a single Output. Wire as follows:  pre:Set Arithmetic Combinator input to "Each (yellow star) * -1", Output to "Each (yellow star)" Set Constant Combinator to to "Limit Trains, #1" Red LTN Stop <-> Arithmetic Combinator Input Red POLE <-> Arithmetic Combinator Output Red POLE <-> LTN Output Green POLE <-> LTN Input Green LTN Input <-> Constant Combinator pre:Green POLE <-> All the chests of material ready to load Red POLE <-> Filter Inserters set to "Set Filters" mode (reminder: you can cut-paste filter settings) REQUESTER Station:  Place the LTN Stop. Place a pole, constant combinator, arithmetic combinator, decider combinator. The LTN stop has 3 valid connections: Input, Output, and Stop itself. The arithmetic and decider have both an Input and an Output side. The constant has a single Output. Wire as follows:   pre:Set Decider Combinator Input to "Encoded positions of every cargo wagon" not equal to 0, Output "Everything (red star) Input Count" Set Arithmetic Combinator Input to "Each (yellow star) * -1", Output to "Each (yellow star)" Set Constant Combinator to to "Output On", "Limit Trains, #1", "Provide Threshold" of 10m (to prevent trains poaching from your requester stops) Red Decider Combinator Output <-> POLE Red Arithmetic Combinator Output <-> Decider Combinator Input Red Arithmetic Combinator Output <-> LTN Stop Itself Red Arithmetic Combinator Input <-> LTN Output Green POLE <-> LTN Input Green LTN Input <-> Constant Combinator pre:Green POLE <-> All the chests of material already in the station (will be combined with the requested amount to initiate train dispatch) Red POLE <-> Filter Inserters set to "Set Filters" mode (reminder: you can cut-paste filter settings) DEPOT Station: Place the LTN Stop. Place a pole, decider combinator, programmable speaker. Wire as follows:  pre:Set Decider Combinator Input "Everything (red star) = 0", Output "Stop is Depot to 1" Set Speaker "Stop is Depot not equal to 1, Alarm, buzzer 1", Alert Settings "Stop is Depot -> LTN Depot Train not Empty" Red Decider Combinator Input <-> LTN Stop itself Red Decoder Combinator Output <-> LTN Stop Input LTN Stop Input <-> Programmable Speaker The speaker is not required but is helpful. If a train cannot deposit requested inventory because the destination is backed up or too full or too slow to export, it will go to the depot with it's contents and you want to know about it ASAP before it messes with your system. The depot is also where you could/should load locomotive fuel. Usage: Have at least one provider, one requester, and a depot with an idle train (blue light). To add more trains, just place them anywhere and then send them to a depot and it will do the rest. To request goods from your train network, on the constant combinator of a requester station, place a negative value of the material you want to keep stocked in the chests. for example, -4000 coal. If the amount in the combined standing inventory chests (green wire) is less than the amount, This will dispatch an idle train from the nearest depot to fulfill the demand. The minimum number of items the system will queue is 1000. You can immediately extract materials from boxes near the rails and sort them as long as the green wire is connected to all the chests for what your station would consider "standing inventory". With this setup, only the exact amount of materials required to bring to the requested amount are loaded and delivered. If you have a requester station requesting -4000 coal, and the amount connected to the green wire is listed as 1234, it will attempt queue a train to an available provider station and load 2766 coal and then deliver that coal to the station. The expectation is that it will be able to both load and unload that amount with no problems within the timeout time (~2 minutes). Any problems with the loading/unloading will alert with the depot speaker. If you want to load only completely full trains for maximum throughput, , set a "Provide Threshold" to your providers of 16000 or whatever your maximum size train capacity is. I never found the need to do this. If you have a "waiting area" for a popular station, set "limit trains" from 1 to 1 + holding areas you have. This will queue up multiple trains at the same time for larger orders. The system works with fluids the exact same way and I have included a fluid station example station as well. How it works: Magic. Magic and Math. You can probably google an overly complex explanation. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 22:35 on May 17, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2019 21:42
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Bhodi posted:These are for right hand drive trains (the correct drive) 0/10 stopped reading here
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Dec 9, 2019 21:54
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GotLag posted:0/10 stopped reading here I did add a super quick setup for people who are semi-familiar or don't want to read. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Dec 9, 2019 |
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Dec 9, 2019 21:57
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I tried LTN once a long time ago, but it didn't work as stated in the blueprints I found and I was never able to get it working properly so I just gave up, as my factory never really got so complicated/huge that I had problems just manually setting up my dedicated trains. Now I'm going to have to try again with this great informative post and blueprints with pictures! Of course I need to build a base first since I haven't played in a while. Actually other than just a quick start that I never got back to, I haven't played since before they declared 17 the stable version! Thanks for all the info.
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Dec 9, 2019 22:00
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charity rereg posted:Equally impressive is this 32x32 factory challenge that's going around. Here's the first one I've seen that does self-contained power generation. This is making me want to see how far a whole-factory sushi belt can scale up.
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Dec 9, 2019 22:25
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Train Supply Manager (TSM) is somewhat like a watered down LTN, and requires a lot less circuit network fiddling, and has a built in feature to send trains to get fuel if they need it. The downside is having depots with fully loaded trains waiting to be deployed. What I've done is set the requesting station to create a request once its stock has reached a certain level.
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Dec 9, 2019 23:02
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I've always done my rails in right hand drive is that not the commonly accepted method? Anything else seems like madness to me.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:41
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Left hand drive is for British people and is therefore 
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Dec 10, 2019 16:49
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Lou Takki posted:I've always done my rails in right hand drive is that not the commonly accepted method? Anything else seems like madness to me. Some strange people from an island far across the sea prefer left hand drive, for reasons unknown
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Dec 10, 2019 16:49
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Lou Takki posted:I've always done my rails in right hand drive is that not the commonly accepted method? Anything else seems like madness to me. It's complicated
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Dec 10, 2019 16:49
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I prefer whichever option lets the signals be on the inside of the two-way. Makes for easier blueprinting and also lets one build right up next to the track on the outside without needing to leave gaps for the signals.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:50
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VostokProgram posted:Some strange people from an island far across the sea prefer left hand drive, for reasons unknown Ambaire posted:option lets the signals be on the inside of the two-way.
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Dec 10, 2019 16:58
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Bhodi posted:LTN Quick how-to. This is fantastic, thank you! Regarding train refuelling, is it possible that an extremely busy network can keep a train constantly going from provider to requester to provider, until it runs out of fuel? Or will a train always visit a depot when it's low on fuel? Or put another way, do you need to use a refuelling mod as well?
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Dec 10, 2019 17:21
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FnF posted:This is fantastic, thank you!
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Dec 10, 2019 17:50
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Ambaire posted:I prefer whichever option lets the signals be on the inside of the two-way. Makes for easier blueprinting and also lets one build right up next to the track on the outside without needing to leave gaps for the signals. I just hate all the talk that references RHD and LHD and never clearly identifies that regardless of where you want to place the signals, the signal goes on the RIGHT HAND SIDE of the track in the direction of the train's travel.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:44
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Half-wit posted:I just hate all the talk that references RHD and LHD and never clearly identifies that regardless of where you want to place the signals, the signal goes on the RIGHT HAND SIDE of the track in the direction of the train's travel. Exactly. With RHD, the signals are always on the outside of the tracks for straight sections and create periodic obstructions. With LHD, the signals are always on the inside of the tracks and look much neater.
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Dec 11, 2019 00:52
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Ambaire posted:Exactly. With RHD, the signals are always on the outside of the tracks for straight sections and create periodic obstructions. With LHD, the signals are always on the inside of the tracks and look much neater. This makes sense to me but I've always done RHD anyways because that's how my brain thinks. The extra space the signals consume don't really matter to me.
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Dec 11, 2019 01:11
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Ambaire posted:Exactly. With RHD, the signals are always on the outside of the tracks for straight sections and create periodic obstructions. With LHD, the signals are always on the inside of the tracks and look much neater.
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Dec 11, 2019 01:12
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| # ? May 25, 2024 23:09 |
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Dec 11, 2019 01:39
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