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Internet Kraken posted:Question: Has anyone played with Mocx and actually found em balanced? Cause from watching someone else play it seems like the Mocx squads don't contribute to the total enemy count on a mission. They just get added on top of the normal enemies so you have to deal with a whole nother pod of tough units. That is exactly how it works. They're a SitRep that bumps up the difficulty of a mission
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Dec 10, 2019 03:10
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use arc throwers to stun them and fulton balloons to capture them!
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Dec 10, 2019 10:38
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Internet Kraken posted:Question: Has anyone played with Mocx and actually found em balanced? Cause from watching someone else play it seems like the Mocx squads don't contribute to the total enemy count on a mission. They just get added on top of the normal enemies so you have to deal with a whole nother pod of tough units. Pretty much, yeah. They unquestionably make a mission tougher when they show up
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Dec 10, 2019 18:54
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Thread: "Late game is pretty much a victory lap" Me, the idiot who downloads tons of enemy mods; 
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Dec 10, 2019 22:23
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You have a rocket and the only goal is extraction. I don't see a problem here.
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Dec 10, 2019 22:37
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You gotta get that mod that gives every enemy type a unique icon
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Dec 10, 2019 22:42
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:You gotta get that mod that gives every enemy type a unique icon Which mod is this?
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Dec 10, 2019 23:18
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Which mod is this? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384631824
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Dec 10, 2019 23:27
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why the hell do the ruler enemies get to take an action every time you take a turn with any unit this ruler archon did the move where it marks several places that it will shoot at once on the next turn, except that next turn came immediately after I did anything. so all those units got blasted and their cover got broken because they had already moved. even if they hadn't I would only be able to move one of them and the rest would still get nuked. what is this.
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Dec 11, 2019 01:53
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IronicDongz posted:why the hell do the ruler enemies get to take an action every time you take a turn with any unit Possibly the single thing in the game that is so bullshit, Long War actually made it less so  .
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Dec 11, 2019 02:02
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IronicDongz posted:why the hell do the ruler enemies get to take an action every time you take a turn with any unit It was a... misguided, lets say, attempt at making proper boss enemies. Making them react to every move you made was a way to get around a lot of conventional tactics that people abused. A properly equipped squad could one-turn pretty much everything in the base game without issue, so they wanted to change that. They also wanted to encourage people to use DOT effects and also utilize repositioning tools rather than just brute force through every encounter. They did things a lot better with the Chosen. I still like the rulers but them being locked into facilities is so much better since you can plan and prep for them.
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Dec 11, 2019 03:52
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IronicDongz posted:why the hell do the ruler enemies get to take an action every time you take a turn with any unit Spot them with a Reaper, have the rest of your squad at least a full screen back. Use a sharpshooter (or 5) to shoot it, and it'll slowly die while running around like crazy trying to figure out where the hell you are. Make sure your Reaper is in a spot where it won't get revealed by it running around. It might take 10-15 turns to whittle it down, but it's as easy as it gets.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:08
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IronicDongz posted:why the hell do the ruler enemies get to take an action every time you take a turn with any unit It warms my cockles, it what it is. Just remember that Rulers used to be worse.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:10
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The first ruler I ran into died from overwatch repeater shot which ruined me for the second ruler because I had no idea how hard they were supposed to be
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Dec 11, 2019 04:14
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Serephina posted:It warms my cockles, it what it is. Just remember that Rulers used to be worse. The viper king showing up on a random guerilla op in month 3 was certainly something
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Dec 11, 2019 04:16
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The real trick to rulers is recognizing that they react to soldiers taking actions within their sight. So for example if you overwatch half your squad out of view, lob a few grenades at the ruler over a building, or take a free action like throwing an axe, then the ruler won't do anything at all. And of course there's squadsight cheesing, where the ruler will never figure out where they're being shot from. Finally there's the usefulness of damage over time effects, the potency of Repeaters, and stun effects that can lock them in place when they're trying to portal out.
Kaal fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 04:24
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Kaal posted:The real trick to rulers is recognizing that they react to soldiers taking actions within their sight. So for example if you overwatch half your squad out of view, lob a few grenades at the ruler over a building, or take a free action like throwing an axe, then the ruler won't do anything at all. And of course there's squadsight cheesing, where the ruler will never figure out where they're being shot from. Finally there's the usefulness of damage over time effects, the potency of Repeaters, and stun effects that can lock them in place when they're trying to portal out. The real trick to rulers is not installing the alien hunters dlc, because they don't add anything fun or interesting to the game.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:42
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the answer to "why did xcom 2 make this seemingly bizarre change" almost always goes back to "as a preemptive counter to the way people were breaking xcom." i think most of the changes were more or less fine or at least not backbreaking but the idea they had to make the rulers harder really fell flat, especially if you were the type of player who didnt watch streamers and had no idea the style of ~metagame~ that developed. it really didn't make them meaningfully harder for the people they were trying to jump out ahead of but it made it ball busting for people who just fire up the game and play and never investigate into that sort of stuff.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:50
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Oh yea, rulers where totally a failed attempt at a good boss monster. Even the game's final fight doesn't have a boss but rather a stream of squads (and some Avatars who get dunked the second they show their face). I mean, it was a good attempt on paper: you can't outnumber him as he scales to your squad. Yes, it sucked, but what we got out of it was really well done Chosen difficulty scalings.
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Dec 11, 2019 04:57
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Is there a mod that gives you a guarantee mission to stop chosen activity, or at least keeps them from doing dark events? Its kind of bullshit on grim horizon to have them throw a random dark event at you with no way of stopping it.Cpt_Obvious posted:The real trick to rulers is not installing the alien hunters dlc, because they don't add anything fun or interesting to the game. Imagine thinking throwing an axe into an alien's face isn't fun.
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Dec 11, 2019 06:20
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if you don't wanna shoot a giant steel spike through a sectoids head, why even get up in the morning?
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Dec 11, 2019 06:25
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upgunned shitpost posted:if you don't wanna shoot a giant steel spike through a sectoids head, why even get up in the morning? Some days you just wanna get up at 3pm and sledgehammer some mutons.
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Dec 11, 2019 06:34
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Think my modded campaign might be on its last legs. I thought I was doing okay on research but I'm facing sectopods and my only final tier research is beam weapons. Every mission is soul-crushingly hard so there's not really any opportunity to train weaker soldiers. Just had one mission go south and I lost both a tech specalist and medic, both of which are pretty huge deals. Grim Horizon might be too much on top of all the mods I'm running. Its only gonna get worse from here and I'm already so fragile. But there's also just some dark events that muck up everything. There's ambush on every covert op now so I can't send weak soldiers on them for exp. I didn't even get a chance to stop that one! EDIT: Don't use the Hive if you're playing on legendary ironman. There's cool stuff in it but its terribly balanced. Almost everything it starts doing late game is bullshit. EDIT 2: I guess stay away from anything Claus makes. Guy makes super nice models but has no concept of balance  How does one design a pod with more health than the final fight of the game and think "this is fine" Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 07:58
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Internet Kraken posted:Is there a mod that gives you a guarantee mission to stop chosen activity, or at least keeps them from doing dark events? Its kind of bullshit on grim horizon to have them throw a random dark event at you with no way of stopping it.
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Dec 11, 2019 10:07
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Olive Branch posted:If you kill the Chosen that spawned a Dark Event or more, those Dark Events will be removed too! "Help! The Aliens are planning horrible things, how do I stop them?" "Have you tried... killing them?"
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Dec 11, 2019 10:13
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My problem with the Chosen is I really like them showing up on missions, so I don't actually wanna kill them. It makes me wish there was a mod that provided meaningful counterplay to their actions on the globe, cause you really can't do much other than kill them. Which means dealing with avenger defense 3 times and that gets old fast. Or alternatively killing them just keeps them from doing anything on the globe, but they can still be in missions.
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Dec 11, 2019 10:57
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rabidsquid posted:the answer to "why did xcom 2 make this seemingly bizarre change" almost always goes back to "as a preemptive counter to the way people were breaking xcom." i think most of the changes were more or less fine or at least not backbreaking but the idea they had to make the rulers harder really fell flat, especially if you were the type of player who didnt watch streamers and had no idea the style of ~metagame~ that developed. it really didn't make them meaningfully harder for the people they were trying to jump out ahead of but it made it ball busting for people who just fire up the game and play and never investigate into that sort of stuff. When it comes to “why did the DLC make this bizarre change”, it always struck me as more “proof of concept for something that would end up in WOTC”. Shen’s gift was a test of longer story based missions and balancing recruiting outside of XCom recruits, Alien Rulers was “how do we make a boss fight interesting”. It offloads a bunch of the balance play testing to the player base, which for a game like this is a fantastic way to do it. There’s nothing like XCom fans to find every way your idea is broken and then post about it, make mods to fix it that you can take ideas from, etc.
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Dec 11, 2019 11:46
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Rulers are good, actually.  You can cheese them, or you can fight them properly with decent attacks like concealed overwatches, stuns, free action attacks, and so on. Archon king's micromissiles only do 2-6 damage anyway.
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Dec 11, 2019 12:00
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Internet Kraken posted:My problem with the Chosen is I really like them showing up on missions, so I don't actually wanna kill them.
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Dec 11, 2019 12:44
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rabidsquid posted:the answer to "why did xcom 2 make this seemingly bizarre change" almost always goes back to "as a preemptive counter to the way people were breaking xcom." This is true, but some of the counters do end up being a bit over the top for your average players. Like, I love beaglerush, but sometimes I curse his name since his overuse of concealed overwatch traps led to the anti-beaglerush maneuver. Which, while fixing the original abuse of the system, also leads to crappy situations where a pod you didn't see walks around a corner and saunters right past your cover, immediately getting to take flank shots on your poor troops. I feel like just doing something like slightly reduced accuracy if you're overwatching out of stealth would be a less brutal counter.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:53
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You could even just give enemies with grenades a decent chance to lob them at anyone in overwatch when activated on the alien turn (before other pod members scatter to cover). Now, instead of an easy pod wipe, you get a possible partial pod wipe in exchange for the risk of guaranteed damage and cover destruction. Sort of a similar nerf, but much less likely to instantly kill your guys, instead making attrition and general chaos the price you pay for trying to exploit weird corner mechanics (or simply choosing a bad hiding spot).
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Dec 11, 2019 19:36
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BobTheJanitor posted:This is true, but some of the counters do end up being a bit over the top for your average players. Like, I love beaglerush, but sometimes I curse his name since his overuse of concealed overwatch traps led to the anti-beaglerush maneuver. Which, while fixing the original abuse of the system, also leads to crappy situations where a pod you didn't see walks around a corner and saunters right past your cover, immediately getting to take flank shots on your poor troops. I feel like just doing something like slightly reduced accuracy if you're overwatching out of stealth would be a less brutal counter. they could have prevented the exploit without collateral damage by just making stealth overwatch expire at the end of XCOM’s turn.
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Dec 11, 2019 20:07
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  yesterday a gatekeeper resurrected a lot of Lost corpses as psi zombies, then I blew it up and then all died. then I saved and quit, and when I loaded it back up today all the lost psi zombies corpses had become these generic green outfit xcom guy clones
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Dec 11, 2019 20:36
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IronicDongz posted:
Maybe they were ... the real XCOM all along! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Against_Fire
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Dec 11, 2019 20:53
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Vib Rib posted:I agree that the Chosen are a lot of fun to actually fight and I wish they could stick around. Is there really no mod to keep them even after their defeat? Like I don't know, zombie Chosen? Maybe they come back injured rather than dead (like some Shadow of Mordor thing?) I couldn't find anything. If there was anything that brought them back or changed their globe behavior to be counterable, I'd like to know.
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Dec 12, 2019 00:46
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Internet Kraken posted:I couldn't find anything. If there was anything that brought them back or changed their globe behavior to be counterable, I'd like to know. There are things you do in the operations room which can stop them from doing stuff on the globe.
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Dec 12, 2019 01:32
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forgot I had this one on my disk https://i.imgur.com/kjJaMZ0.mp4
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Dec 12, 2019 02:30
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:forgot I had this one on my disk Can you point out what I'm supposed to be seeing here? Edit: Wait is it the advent guy's legs being wonky for a split second
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Dec 12, 2019 03:56
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Vib Rib posted:Maybe they come back injured rather than dead (like some Shadow of Mordor thing?) This is where I thought the discussion was heading. It would be a neat mechanic to borrow, even if you can ultimately kill them off for a while before a new one showed up. Early on it could just be a canny Advent Commander, not even some special Chosen jerk.
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Dec 12, 2019 06:50
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Really the endpoint is letting every alien and ADVENT have a chance at coming back as a special unit a la chosen.... ... whereupon you can Fulton them to convert them into your soldiers 
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Dec 12, 2019 07:05
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