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Baseless speculation: They were planning an attack, so they stole a uhaul and were getting into position when the cop noticed them, so they shot the cop and went to the building and massacred everyone they could find instead of blowing it up with the explosives in the uhaul?
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Dec 11, 2019 05:59
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This is utterly heartbreaking and everyone should read this.
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Dec 11, 2019 07:12
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"we now believe the active shooters targeted the location they attacked" oh word?????
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Dec 11, 2019 07:25
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after 24 hours of having our greatest detectives on the case we have accurately determined that the shooter shot a bullet at the place he shot. thank you.
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Dec 11, 2019 07:28
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the replies in that thread, good god...
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Dec 11, 2019 07:32
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I'm a European currently in the US. Today a guy walked into a restaurant I was at wearing an army-style jacked with the German flag on the sleeve. Now where I am from, that is a clear sign of a neo-nazi and wearing it would most likely result in people shouting at you and pretty likely people throwing punches at you. Does the same symbolism hold in the US? Nothing else about his appearance had any typical alt-right iconography or anything.
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Dec 11, 2019 09:22
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uncertainty posted:I'm a European currently in the US. Today a guy walked into a restaurant I was at wearing an army-style jacked with the German flag on the sleeve. Now where I am from, that is a clear sign of a neo-nazi and wearing it would most likely result in people shouting at you and pretty likely people throwing punches at you. Does the same symbolism hold in the US? Nothing else about his appearance had any typical alt-right iconography or anything. Eh? Those army jackets w flag were pretty popular in the 90s, in Europe. Idk if you would get punched wearing that, today.
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Dec 11, 2019 09:28
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mike12345 posted:Eh? Those army jackets w flag were pretty popular in the 90s, in Europe. Idk if you would get punched wearing that, today. Yeah its the combination with the German flag specifically. It could be a local thing but where I grew up they were definitely a nazi / racist thing.
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Dec 11, 2019 09:35
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uncertainty posted:I'm a European currently in the US. Today a guy walked into a restaurant I was at wearing an army-style jacked with the German flag on the sleeve. Now where I am from, that is a clear sign of a neo-nazi and wearing it would most likely result in people shouting at you and pretty likely people throwing punches at you. Does the same symbolism hold in the US? Nothing else about his appearance had any typical alt-right iconography or anything. he might have absolutely no clue what any of that is and he might be doing it on purpose. I'd bet on the former.
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Dec 11, 2019 09:36
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uncertainty posted:I'm a European currently in the US. Today a guy walked into a restaurant I was at wearing an army-style jacked with the German flag on the sleeve. Now where I am from, that is a clear sign of a neo-nazi and wearing it would most likely result in people shouting at you and pretty likely people throwing punches at you. Does the same symbolism hold in the US? Nothing else about his appearance had any typical alt-right iconography or anything. I used to have one when i was a teenager back in the 2000's. They're heaps common in just about any army surplus store around australia. I always assumed the west german army must have sold off a shitload of surplus after the berlin wall fell and the surplus stores are still offloading them.
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Dec 11, 2019 09:42
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Ok thank you all, will chalk it up to cultural differences 
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Dec 11, 2019 09:46
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Slugnoid posted:I used to have one when i was a teenager back in the 2000's. They're heaps common in just about any army surplus store around australia. yeah they're durable and cheap
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Dec 11, 2019 09:46
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Are we talking modern German flag? A lot of punk types wore it in the early 2000s
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Dec 11, 2019 10:08
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Alan Smithee posted:Are we talking modern German flag? Yeah just saying "German flag" leaves a bit of ambiguity, like in the US the iron cross symbol is somehow associated with white/male/boomer motorcycle enthusiasts, for some asinine reason edit: I mean this link is orthogonal to the symbol's association with neonazi gangs, to some degree. silentsnack has issued a correction as of 10:38 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 10:18
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https://twitter.com/AntiFashGordon/status/1204632521209573377 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg5CO9ZgvxI&t=8s
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Dec 11, 2019 10:19
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:https://twitter.com/AntiFashGordon/status/1204632521209573377 AND FURTHERMORE MTV you dont even play MUSIC anymore
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Dec 11, 2019 10:23
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uncertainty posted:I'm a European currently in the US. Today a guy walked into a restaurant I was at wearing an army-style jacked with the German flag on the sleeve. Now where I am from, that is a clear sign of a neo-nazi and wearing it would most likely result in people shouting at you and pretty likely people throwing punches at you. Does the same symbolism hold in the US? Nothing else about his appearance had any typical alt-right iconography or anything. went on a school trip to germany as a kid -- like multiple schools all in one group. this student from another school was a goth kid and sewed a SICK GERMAN PATCH on his jacket (can't remember but it was some tourist souvenir-type patch) for the big trip and had loving daggers stared at him. i think old ladies cursed at him at one point. it was also fun going into the reichstag and seeing him be pulled aside by security and given a very thorough pat-down. he wasn't a nazi by any means, but just an unfortunate product of the american education system which did not prepare him very well for these cultural misunderstandings. i think it was worse though because he had the whole goth getup BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 10:31 on Dec 11, 2019 |
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Dec 11, 2019 10:26
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come to think of it, it's hard for me to think of a U.S. clothing thing that is a neo-nazi "tell" unless they're just rocking something really explicit like a waffen SS death's head or a klan blood drop, but that i haven't seen. a thor's hammer necklace is pretty common though. i think nazis also like to wear obscure band t-shirts. saw one of these guys wearing a t-shirt for an italian metal band associated with casapound rolling with a group of nazis in plain clothes at a demo. i didn't even know what it was and had to look it up later. their music videos show that group functioning as a cult-like street gang with the band inside casapound's headquarters shaking their fists and trying to lure the teen viewer into getting on board with the big team
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Dec 11, 2019 10:50
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if it's just surplus military gear, then it's much more likely that the guy is interested in some fashion subculture or is straight-up homeless than a nazi, imo. adjust beliefs according to region, other stuff the guy was wearing/did, etc.
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Dec 11, 2019 10:56
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people who are reich curious tend to have more on the nose symbols. Those who are into the lifestyle get them tattooed
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Dec 11, 2019 10:58
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:come to think of it, it's hard for me to think of a U.S. clothing thing that is a neo-nazi "tell" unless they're just rocking something really explicit like a waffen SS death's head or a klan blood drop, but that i haven't seen. casapound - they're fascist squatters? interesting. wikipedia links the "pound" in their name to an american writer who lived and wrote in italy... can't tell if that's the right link. e: ezra pound, that is. lol early morning
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Dec 11, 2019 11:01
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uncertainty posted:I'm a European currently in the US. Today a guy walked into a restaurant I was at wearing an army-style jacked with the German flag on the sleeve. Now where I am from, that is a clear sign of a neo-nazi and wearing it would most likely result in people shouting at you and pretty likely people throwing punches at you. Does the same symbolism hold in the US? Nothing else about his appearance had any typical alt-right iconography or anything. Where in Europe are you from? Here in the UK I'd just assume they got a cheap coat from an army surplus shop
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Dec 11, 2019 11:07
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:come to think of it, it's hard for me to think of a U.S. clothing thing that is a neo-nazi "tell" unless they're just rocking something really explicit like a waffen SS death's head or a klan blood drop, but that i haven't seen. Doc Martens are a pretty big tell, especially with red laces. Though I'm pretty sure most assholes with red laces are just that, and not actually people who have "shed blood for the movement."
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Dec 11, 2019 11:18
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:https://twitter.com/AntiFashGordon/status/1204632521209573377 His mom emailing them to whine about how they were so MEAN to her POOR SON without even giving any thought as to why the documentary made him look bad explains so much about Fuentes
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Dec 11, 2019 13:25
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Thor’s hammer tats / jewelry is 99% a nazi and 1% confused new age weirdos who suck anyway
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Dec 11, 2019 14:01
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i'd add pretty much any norse paganism iconography to that list, not just thor's hammer. i get that there's people who are into that stuff who aren't nazis but at this point they're about as likely to not be a nazi as your average skinhead.
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Dec 11, 2019 15:22
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Continuity RCP posted:Where in Europe are you from? Here in the UK I'd just assume they got a cheap coat from an army surplus shop UK as well,. I had one growing up, if they're what I'm thinking they have the modern German flag on the sleeve and are just something you got because they were cheap and looked kinda cool
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Dec 11, 2019 17:16
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Azathoth posted:i'd add pretty much any norse paganism iconography to that list, not just thor's hammer. i get that there's people who are into that stuff who aren't nazis but at this point they're about as likely to not be a nazi as your average skinhead. Nah, this is wrong. Lots of metalheads / pagans / folk music fans / general viking enthusiasts wear the Thor's hammer or have rune jewellery or tattoos. You can use it to be a little suspicious and look for further clues of their politics, but it doesn't tell you anything by itself. BrutalistMcDonalds posted:come to think of it, it's hard for me to think of a U.S. clothing thing that is a neo-nazi "tell" Fred Perry Polo shirt with yellow lines?
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Dec 11, 2019 17:28
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also:quote:The two people who stormed a kosher grocery store in Jersey City with rifles, killing three people inside and also murdering a veteran detective, have been identified as David Anderson and Francine Graham, four law enforcement sources familiar with the case tell News 4. 
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Dec 11, 2019 17:30
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Those surplus german jackets are popular in the united states for their cheapness, availability, and the camo pattern, flecktarn, is popular for hunters too. Many others just think the camo pattern is cool. Attomwaffen does wear flecktarn german surplus jackets but the popularity among normal punks and hunters came first. I would say the skull mask thing is best indication someone is a fascist, of course nobody wears those irl regularly, only in their prof pics online
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Dec 11, 2019 17:30
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I'm involved in the "metal subculture" and I can tell you where i'm from you need to explain anything Thor's Hammer and it won't win you any respect either way.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:32
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Here in the Netherlands it's (mostly) just a viking/pagan related symbol. Obvious Nazis use the wolfsangel more
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Dec 11, 2019 17:46
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I mean that does make sense lol I'm in Detroit
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Dec 11, 2019 17:46
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Yeah, all these things are heavily dependent on local (sub)culture, which is why context and other clues are important.
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Dec 11, 2019 17:50
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ekuNNN posted:also: where do actual Jews fit into the Black Israelite thing
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Dec 11, 2019 17:53
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Alan Smithee posted:where do actual Jews fit into the Black Israelite thing I would assume usurper pretenders aligned with the fallen one himself
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Dec 11, 2019 17:54
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Over the summer I saw a group of SHARPs walking out of a bar dead-rear end drunk with a group of punks and I was so surprised that I had to pull over and look again because I thought they might be ghosts or someshit. Antifa really are the white blood cells of the body politic. Watching those dumb, drunk kids was like watching me and my bros stumbling out of a show back in the 90's.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:01
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The best identifier for an American fascist is the Punisher symbol. It's not a directly associated with any particular organization or belief, but it's guaranteed that anyone who has plastered it on anything of theirs is at least a sympathizer.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:35
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Azathoth posted:i'd add pretty much any norse paganism iconography to that list, not just thor's hammer. i get that there's people who are into that stuff who aren't nazis but at this point they're about as likely to not be a nazi as your average skinhead. I used to run closer to neopagan circles in the US Pacific Northwest a few years ago, but the ratio doesn't seem to have changed too much from when I was married to a neopagan: about a third to half of self-identifying Asatru neopagans are definitely ok in terms of white supremacy. Where you think folks attempting a modern restorationist movement for pre-feudal European tribal religions are on the Okay-to-Weird scale is personal, they're just not thirsting for a race war. Most of the rest are your normal run of racists from American populations; they see themselves as new-agey restorationists first and are mostly-passively bigoted later. Anyone trying to edge into neopagan circles using Norse iconography and practices and calling themselves something other than 'Asatru' is automatically suspicious and almost always some Sons of Odin style bullshit attempting entryism.
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Dec 11, 2019 18:45
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Must be very location dependent. I have yet to see anyone (in Minnesota) have that kind of stuff on that wasn't also accompanied by a bunch of other fash signaling. Granted, where I'm at isn't exactly a hotbed of alternative religious movements.
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Dec 11, 2019 19:29
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