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ModernMajorGeneral posted:I don't really see a future for the left at least in the anglosphere, after Tories can repeatedly hold power, gently caress the country for years on end and translate that into more support and votes by blaming the left for it. well I'd argue that the ALP is actually really bad at marketing and the "long game" strategy has completely backfired. The federal coalition has literally been playing as an opposition party for years now and it's a strategy that works.
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Dec 12, 2019 23:27
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https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1205251536374444032 We can only wait and see.
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Dec 12, 2019 23:28
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Corbyn didn't have a clear message on Brexit, which has essentially melted the brains of everyone in the UK.
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Dec 12, 2019 23:39
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turns out when you become a left-leaning politician, you've gotta fire all your advisors and let your strategy be decided through reading tea leaves
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Dec 12, 2019 23:44
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Its okay, once bojo gets his majority and finds a way to finally brexit, the labour party will be voted in a landslide once britain takes its predictable trajectory south as everything in the economy freezes and fucks over all bar the ultra wealthy. Its just a shame whoever is running labour at that point will have a huge unnecessary mess to clean up.
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Dec 12, 2019 23:56
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there will never again be a left wing government in the west
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Dec 12, 2019 23:57
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Helith posted:https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1205251536374444032 Nah, it's over.
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Dec 12, 2019 23:58
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bell jar posted:there will never again be a left wing government in the west
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Dec 13, 2019 00:03
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Bill?! Not again, not again! Biiiiiilllll!
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Dec 13, 2019 00:05
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bell jar posted:there will never again be a left wing government in the west Scotland might get one after it becomes independent.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:06
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Watching the UK election as an Australian, I saw too many parallels to our elections to not think it would go this way. A party running a leader who'd already lost one election because "well he didn't lose by thaaaaat much" is very reminiscent of the ALP in 2016/2019. Corbyn's platform was also reminiscent of Shorten's in that everything he offered was good, but nothing in particular stood out. "Increase funding" doesn't mean a whole lot to the average voter. Offering to improve the services which they already have wasn't a compelling enough message to cut through the Brexit conversation. Meanwhile his actual campaign was ran as a scare campaign similar to what the LNP always run. While that sort of thing may work well in Australia, in a country without mandatory voting I couldn't see it having the same effect. Repeatedly chanting "the Tories will sell the NHS" while the Tories are off to the side saying "nah we won't" isn't the sort of thing that's going to compel people to get out to a polling booth in the middle of winter and vote for you. I think the lesson from all of this is that the left can't win on a campaign of fear. Playing to people's ignorance and apprehension about change is the conservative's game. The left needs to run a campaign of hope that entices people with policies that offer concrete improvements to their lives. In Australia I think this translates to policies like adding dental to Medicare and increasing the childcare rebate. "Free dental" and "Free childcare" will win you an election. "Increase funding to hospitals and schools" and "Close tax loopholes" won't. As soon as people have to do math to figure out how your policies benefit them you've already lost.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:06
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bell jar posted:there will never again be a left wing government in the west The last two were FDR and Whitlam. There hasnt really been a true left wing govt in the west other than that. Edit maybe the Nordic if you count them as west
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Dec 13, 2019 00:08
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I wonder if the UK thread will get invaded by smug posters who have never posted in d&d before claiming victory, like what happened in this thread
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Dec 13, 2019 00:08
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:The last two were FDR and Whitlam. There hasnt really been a true left wing govt in the west other than that. Attlee. LBJ.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:09
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Guest posted:Watching the UK election as an Australian, I saw too many parallels to our elections to not think it would go this way. A party running a leader who'd already lost one election because "well he didn't lose by thaaaaat much" is very reminiscent of the ALP in 2016/2019. It worked for Abbott, although a decade before that it failed for Beazley. I think the lesson is that leaders who make gains only really get to keep them if they are running a small target destructive campaign rather than offering any sort of vision.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:10
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Guest posted:Watching the UK election as an Australian, I saw too many parallels to our elections to not think it would go this way. A party running a leader who'd already lost one election because "well he didn't lose by thaaaaat much" is very reminiscent of the ALP in 2016/2019. Corbyn's platform was also reminiscent of Shorten's in that everything he offered was good, but nothing in particular stood out. "Increase funding" doesn't mean a whole lot to the average voter. Offering to improve the services which they already have wasn't a compelling enough message to cut through the Brexit conversation. The Tory campaign was run by Isaac Levido, a protege of Lynton Crosby, who helped Scomo win here.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:11
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bell jar posted:there will never again be a left wing government in the west
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Dec 13, 2019 00:14
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bell jar posted:there will never again be a left wing government in the west The left in germany/spain and maybe some nordic countries is somewhat healthy and may be in with a shot. In the USA/UK/Australia, yeah, it's over. I see people in the uk thread saying that the next hope for the left resurgence is after brexit ruins the economy and radicalises the population, but the uk economy is already in the process of ruination and the only radicalisation has been rightward. Instability and collapse helps fascists more than socialists, and I'm not sure if or how this can be changed.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:14
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gently caress me the sad snap response is Accelerationists everywhere
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Dec 13, 2019 00:20
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:In the USA/UK/Australia, yeah, it's over. I don't think that really reflects what's happened in the US since 2016.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:25
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The problem is that the electorate is so stupid that they think right wing parties are better at “the economy” (whatever that is meant to mean), which means that during hard times they will keep voting in the Tories/Liberals because well, they’re the only party that can get things on track. You might think that a century of evidence that the right wing is only in it for enriching themselves might make a difference, but the majority of the electorate is functionally braindead and has no understanding of object permanence.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:27
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Senor Tron posted:It worked for Abbott, although a decade before that it failed for Beazley. I think the lesson is that leaders who make gains only really get to keep them if they are running a small target destructive campaign rather than offering any sort of vision. Yeah fair point, but I still say that campaign only works in a country where everybody has to vote for someone. The game in Australia isn't to convince people to vote for you, it's to convince them not to vote for the other guy. Helith posted:The Tory campaign was run by Isaac Levido, a protege of Lynton Crosby, who helped Scomo win here. Yeah but the messaging was different. Scomo ran on "the ALP will tax your CORPSE" while Johnson ran on "don't you just want Brexit to be over with?". The only through line is that both campaigns were ran by someone who is very politically competent and did a very good job at reading the room. Honestly there was no way for Corbyn to win on the Brexit issue. If he pledged to be hard remain he'd have lost seats to the Tories, if he pledged hard Brexit he'd have lost seats to the Lib Dems, and his ultimate solution of a second referendum lost him the votes of all the people who just want this poo poo to be over with already.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:28
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Helith posted:The Tory campaign was run by Isaac Levido, a protege of Lynton Crosby, who helped Scomo win here. Please don't endorse his marketing bs.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:33
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I don't think that really reflects what's happened in the US since 2016. A left resurgence in the us hinges a lot on Bernie winning both the primary and the election, which is a lot of eggs to put in one basket. Every other option leads to more trump or a lovely bidenesque centrist single term which paves the way for president don jr. I guess the us left could wait 20 years for the new generation of AOC type leftists to become viable presidential candidates, but GOP gerrymandering/voter suppression measures and climate change mean there probably isn't that kind of time. I agree the US still has healthier prospects for the left than the UK or Australia (how sad is that?) due to better grassroots activity and demographics, but it's still looking like hoping for the US is grasping at straws.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:34
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Trump is going to win a second term.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:36
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You only have to look at the front page of the terrorgraph this morning to identify the problem. LNP State environment minister says fires are due to climate change? Front page calling him a hose poser. Unlike that lovely NTATA who was the real deal. Is the PM trying to trigger me? "that’s why it’s important to have a sense of calm about these matters and calm on the basis of information." What information you pile of recently ejected dog turds? Seriously this needs to stop.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:37
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Wheezle posted:Trump is going to win a second term.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:37
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Facebook delivers conservative or nationalist governments every time.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:38
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we need Jeb!
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Dec 13, 2019 00:38
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President Jeb! But only if it's always spelt and said as Jeb! In every situation
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Dec 13, 2019 00:43
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Nah, but if Biden gets the Nom it won't really matter that he didn't. The only hope in that case is a bunch of AOC analogues primary the gently caress out of the ancient neolib shitheels that are dedicated to the mantra that Real Change Isn't Possible. We can't do that here, because candidate preselection is gamed to gently caress and undemocratic. See scumbo and Craig Kelly.
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Dec 13, 2019 00:44
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Wheezle posted:Trump is going to win a second term. He removes term limits, GOP fellate Trump and let him stay president for life. All heil supreme ruler trump
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Dec 13, 2019 00:45
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WA is trying it's best to catch up to nsw on the fire front
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Dec 13, 2019 00:55
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Definite parallels to here, look at the early results and see what a huge chunk of Labor was taken by the rising Brexit Party vote.
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Dec 13, 2019 01:01
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cohsae posted:Definite parallels to here, look at the early results and see what a huge chunk of Labor was taken by the rising Brexit Party vote. They copied Palmer lol
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Dec 13, 2019 01:23
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I can't deal with another god drat conservative victory. Boris Johnson has killed me.
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Dec 13, 2019 01:24
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Whitlam posted:Exit poll (which is traditionally pretty accurate):
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Dec 13, 2019 01:27
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The parallels I've seen off the top of my head: Unpopular leader, "oh that doesn't matter the whole country doesn't vote for him, only his electorate/constituency" Polarising major policy issue, "let's take the middle ground" "You absolutely can't trust polls ever" "Media bias" (true, but still a parallel) Probably others as well.
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Dec 13, 2019 01:27
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Jeremy Corbyn is no Bill Shorten. The guy is a saint lol. It's insane that people voted for a lumbering shithead over him. The only explanation is ideology. People don't believe in socialism at all anymore.
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Dec 13, 2019 01:29
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Like, why the HELL was Corbyn unpopular? You can blame the media all you want but it's far simpler to conclude that people don't like his ideology. He was running against BORIS loving JOHNSON.
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Dec 13, 2019 01:30
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