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Kill All Cops posted:anyone who thinks corbyn cant channel anger hasnt watched a single PMQs ever, have they i watched a few and he wasnt good at it
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Dec 13, 2019 07:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9GpgSQZ4J4
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Dec 13, 2019 07:15
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death cult island
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Dec 13, 2019 07:15
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Uncle Wemus posted:does british politics wait a while to start up again now or do they get right to it tomorrow how long do we have to wait until we see brexit brexit will never happen. theyll do brexit in all but name immediately ie theyll sell off the nhs to aetna and stuff limeys full of chlorinated chicken and e. coli lettuce by the end of 2020 but they wont call it brexit and theyll pretend that brexit hasnt happened for the next several years until the next election when theyll say that the lettuce has e coli because we havent had brexit yet and you need to vote tory to make brexit happen
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Dec 13, 2019 07:15
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:i watched a few and he wasnt good at it this is true but do you really think that corbyn being better at delivering zingers would've made the difference
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Dec 13, 2019 07:16
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THS posted:do you think a lot of americans might think sanders is equally uncharismatic and off-putting - if in a different way than Corbyn, at least with the same effect electorally? Nah, people like Sanders. He's got a wholesome energy along with being outspoken, gruff and angry. He's a massive contrast to Trump, but in a really good way, and comes off as authentic and charming. He's got a memorable voice, memorable mannerisms, and a ruffled appearance that means he's really hard to forget or feel like he's being stuffy. I liked Corbyn a lot, he seemed like one of the only respectable people in the chamber every time I watched. But Sanders' sweeping gestures and voice that sounds like a caricature of a jewish man from brooklyn makes him stand out, so not only was he yelling about how NAFTA was a bad idea back when they were passing it he also had this wild mop of hair and had a distinct, unforgettable voice.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:16
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Corbyn get some rest buddy, you did what you could. The blairites did not deserve your constant kindness.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:16
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V. Illych L. posted:had they turned to lexit instead of remain-with-a-fig-leaf they would've seen a similar situation, but reversed - they would've been losing safe seats across the big cities and many of their middle-class activists would've been demoralised or left entirely. as it is, the pro-brexit voices in the party were getting shoutes at (milne, mccluskey) i think this is the correct view that he was hosed regardless. Either Corbyn disavows his lexit predilections, goes remain, and loses even more of the territory he lost tonight in old labour strongholds or he hypothetically went hard brexit and wins those strongholds but loses way more catastrophically to a stronger lib dem turnout.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:16
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THS posted:do you think a lot of americans might think sanders is equally uncharismatic and off-putting - if in a different way than Corbyn, at least with the same effect electorally? corbyns approval was in the low 20s and bernie is the most popular politician in the united states for the last 5 years or so, so obviously not
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Dec 13, 2019 07:16
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The DUP have lost the North and South Belfast seats one to Sinn Fein and one to the SDLP. Loyalists are going to be loving foaming at the mouth this morning because it means they're getting the gently caress The North Brexit.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:16
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:i watched a few and he wasnt good at it idk man i disagree, i guess we just view this stuff on a fundamentally different wavelength (or the Lying Media got to your Brain)
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Dec 13, 2019 07:17
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The LibDems wouldn't have surged lolPhilthy posted:Can the economy please just crater and gently caress all these right wing assholes out of power already. Don't worry it's coming, but it'll put the smarmiest blue labourite in Downing St.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:18
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Can the economy please just crater and gently caress all these right wing assholes out of power already.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:18
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Shear Modulus posted:wait did corbyn quit already Yeah, the system has done it's job and the people emphatically shrugged their shoulders at Jam Lad. They need to let the Tories gently caress it all up and pick up the pieces with a new face in the future, that's what the people want lmao
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Dec 13, 2019 07:18
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Nonsense posted:The LibDems wouldn't have surged lol they absolutely would've, they were polling in the mid-twenties before labour pivoted to remain
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Dec 13, 2019 07:18
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Corbyn can not fail, but can only be Failed, by the awful English voters
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Dec 13, 2019 07:19
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jesus gently caress what a rout, I'm so sorry britgoons  Taintrunner posted:did everyone just miss the part where Boris has absolute power now with zero oversight explain this to me
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Dec 13, 2019 07:20
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Nonsense posted:The LibDems wouldn't have surged lol i think you underestimate the amount of middle class pro-EU assholes in urban areas who still reluctantly voted for corbyn (or for their local MP as they saw it)
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Dec 13, 2019 07:20
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Martout posted:explain this to me Boris is the King of England now
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Dec 13, 2019 07:20
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V. Illych L. posted:this is true but do you really think that corbyn being better at delivering zingers would've made the difference absolutely
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Dec 13, 2019 07:21
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V. Illych L. posted:corbyn did not lose because he is boring, he lost because of the critically low class consciousness of the workers of britain allowed brexit to turn into an issue of identity. labour tried to compromise, and ended up as the squeezed middle, bizarrely. no matter how young or slick he was he would've lost those seats because people wanted to Get Brexit Done, and that was always going to be a big loss for the party. it was always an identity issue, everything is. identity and narrative are what capitalism has used to replace community bonds and purpose THS posted:also just to add one more thing - i think for the self-reflective and anxious among us, especially on a forum where intense criticism is the norm - it's difficult to express this view because it comes across as the most basic level punk rock high school anarchist critique, and has also been appropriated by alex jones and similar forces, and even appropriated by capitalism itself in its own all consuming way - even though it is, if informed with marxist materialism and a basic humane view of the world, the correct reading of media, mainstream news, etc. dare to be cringe i guess it very is. if i had a screencap handy id post joyce's line from disco elysium about infracultures, nobody escapes the supraculture because capitalism subsumes even critque into iself. eat fresh.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:22
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I don't know how a more charismatic politician would have been able to thread the Brexit needle for that matter, how do you go from "someone else besides Corbyn" to an actual living member of the Labour Party who would have wanted the job?
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Dec 13, 2019 07:22
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:absolutely that is insane sorry
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Dec 13, 2019 07:22
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THS posted:i think you underestimate the amount of middle class pro-EU assholes in urban areas who still reluctantly voted for corbyn (or for their local MP as they saw it) True, I also kinda forgot that Scotland wants out this mess and they gave no fucks about Boris, or England.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:22
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Ayn Randi posted:it was always an identity issue, everything is. identity and narrative are what capitalism has used to replace community bonds and purpose
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Dec 13, 2019 07:23
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V. Illych L. posted:this is true but do you really think that corbyn being better at delivering zingers would've made the difference it would make a difference I think but not enough, the election being about brexit and not austerity and privatization of the NHS was what undid The Boy
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Dec 13, 2019 07:23
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the odds were always stacked against corbyn 1) hostile media 2) two hostile parties running to gently caress you over in marginal seats 3) demoralized, uneducated working white precariate with little to no class consciousness resentful of immigrants and muslims 4) remoaners seen as out-of-touch and upset that they won't be able to hang out with cool europeans 5) Impossible to do lexit without demoralizing youth base, organizers, and party cadres 6) diminished political consciousness about the possible, learned helplessness, etc thanks to a decade of austerity the fact that he wasn't very charismatic in the ordinary sense did not help, but no labour leader could have won this election.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:24
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V. Illych L. posted:this is true but do you really think that corbyn being better at delivering zingers would've made the difference trump is president of the us entirely off of his strength at delivering sick burns and do you really think limey voters are that much smarter than americans
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Dec 13, 2019 07:25
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Shear Modulus posted:brexit will never happen. theyll do brexit in all but name immediately ie theyll sell off the nhs to aetna and stuff limeys full of chlorinated chicken and e. coli lettuce by the end of 2020 but they wont call it brexit and theyll pretend that brexit hasnt happened for the next several years until the next election when theyll say that the lettuce has e coli because we havent had brexit yet and you need to vote tory to make brexit happen  rule britannia for the real low-brow conservative voters to eat it up, while the ones who ask too many questions can be quietly ignored like usuali mean it works for trump. as long as the people at the top are making money and the plebs are getting screwed then everything is okay
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Dec 13, 2019 07:25
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Grondoth posted:Nah, people like Sanders. He's got a wholesome energy along with being outspoken, gruff and angry. He's a massive contrast to Trump, but in a really good way, and comes off as authentic and charming. He's got a memorable voice, memorable mannerisms, and a ruffled appearance that means he's really hard to forget or feel like he's being stuffy. Americans like politicians who are memorable and quirky. Its why the candidate who sells more halloween masks always ends up winning the election. I think Scott loving Walker of all people said that Bernie is the only democrat who had a chance of making the rural areas competitive instead of having a path solely focused on running up the score in the cities and suburbs because hes angry and pointing out all the poo poo thats wrong which the countryside responds to because of how much poo poo is wrong out there but he never struck me as particularly smart and we live in the hell timeline but who knows.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:25
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KaptainKrunk posted:the odds were always stacked against corbyn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TyY_hx0qn0
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Dec 13, 2019 07:26
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Martout posted:jesus gently caress what a rout, I'm so sorry britgoons it’s in the Tory manifesto. he has full executive powers with no oversight from anyone. it’s over.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:28
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KaptainKrunk posted:the odds were always stacked against corbyn sucks real bad mang
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Dec 13, 2019 07:28
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Wow, people really voted for pain.
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Dec 13, 2019 07:29
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Taintrunner posted:it’s in the Tory manifesto. he has full executive powers with no oversight from anyone. so the whole party has agreed that if they get a majority by themselves the PM gets to do whatever the gently caress and they'll support it?
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Dec 13, 2019 07:29
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:yeah it's not like the ruling class wanted this -- they are just willing to use it and manipulate sentiment to preserve their wealth and power. could very be another slow-rolled "we solved brexit!!!" thing like trump's reworking of NAFTA which is basically the same as NAFTA with trump's face stamped on it. have some headlines in the murdoch press about everything being great and also ultimately why the gently caress would british capitalists actually care if the UK is essentially still beholden to european finance and trade while being supposedly independent from the EU but now with even less input. they can go wherever the gently caress they want, the schengen zone and any new limitations never applied to them anyway, and they can hollow out the UK while living wherever they want, doing whatever they want
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Dec 13, 2019 07:29
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Martout posted:so the whole party has agreed that if they get a majority by themselves the PM gets to do whatever the gently caress and they'll support it? Boris delivered them a majority after being mocked for losing votes by commoners
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Dec 13, 2019 07:30
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I'm not sure I entirely like this angle that since we think that people had to have liked Corbyn's policies, but since we also don't want to consider factors outside of his party, that we're instead running to how personable he is, and further projecting that onto Sanders as being successful because he's a charismatic politician, and not because of his policies
gradenko_2000 has issued a correction as of 07:35 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 07:31
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Martout posted:so the whole party has agreed that if they get a majority by themselves the PM gets to do whatever the gently caress and they'll support it? why wouldnt they right-wingers want less democracy, thats kind of their MO
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Dec 13, 2019 07:31
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https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1205341670738464770 more fires. more death. grenfell is good for number
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Dec 13, 2019 07:32
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