|
Communist Thoughts posted:He might make an OK interim leader who doesn't run for leadership though. Though isn't he a Remainer?
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 21:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 04:06 |
|
|
OwlFancier posted:That sounds more like privilege than smarts. They have a PhD and a masters between them. Both very Leftie and they said they "don't want to bring a child up in Britain if it is like this". forkboy84 posted:I mean it's not dumb but I don't think you need smarts to consider loving off elsewhere. You need resources. You need money for the move, you need skills & qualifications that are desired in the place you're moving to. And in most parts of the world you need to speak a new language too. For those of us who fall down on one or all of those issues, it's not that we're lacking in smarts. True, I wasn't meaning to denigrate other folks! escapegoat posted:I'd do the same if I had more in demand skills. Though apparently the common travel area between the UK and Ireland will still exist after brexit, so there's that at least. Well if i have to get in a boat I have to get in a boat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 21:58
|
|
|
jaete posted:What can I say, I'm an optimist Ahhh... optimism... I vaguely remember those days. Nah, you are right. There's a lot to be done and can be achieved with positive campaigning; Hell, the SNP result is probably an example of that. The last Oz election I put serious time into left me pretty disheartened overall, but there were individuals it was nice to see genuinely start to give the major parties' policies a critical eye. Maybe one day we'll get enough of them. Hearts and minds... hearts and minds....
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:01
|
|
|
forkboy84 posted:For about 6 weeks one year. Actually might have been less than that now I think of it, don't think I lasted the full 6 week contract before finding something with a less awful commute. Was over 2 hours a day thanks to having to wait for a bus connection. I really need shorter commutes. Ah. I wondered that if you were a bit more local our paths may have crossed. I go to Craigelleachie a couple of times a year at least to drink much whisky.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:01
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:They have a PhD and a masters between them. Both very Leftie and they said they "don't want to bring a child up in Britain if it is like this". Perhaps, but a lot of people want better for their children, but most don't have the option. Wanting better for your children isn't a smart exclusive thing, nor is being able to choose where you live.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:01
|
|
|
Angry Lobster posted:What's her line of business, if you don't mind me asking? Show horse/pony breeding (for smaller amateur shows, not your expensive ponies) and she owns a small lunchtime cafe as her main job. If you went in there without knowing anything about her you would think just she was anyone’s friendly aunt who likes a gossip.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:07
|
|
|
The EU is fairly easy to move to without skills or knowing the language, you just get stuck doing shite jobs. You get shoved into the same situation as eastern europeans did in the UK in the 2000s, all warehouse work and everyone trying to take advantage.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:07
|
|
|
labour right plotting a coup already https://twitter.com/peterkyle/status/1205588395193438208?s=20
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:08
|
|
|
Whatever that slogan is, it needs to have iron in it. ‘For the many’ is nice enough, but something more militant might work better. ‘United we’ll stand’ maybe. Or maybe just ‘rise’.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:12
|
|
|
Jose posted:labour right plotting a coup already One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn’t the same
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:12
|
|
|
I suggest since boris is popular we ape all thatchers policies and then appoint a leader who is right wing enough (get Chukka back perhaps?) to carry them. A new age of left wing politics based entirely on the application of right wing politics is at hand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:12
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Perhaps, but a lot of people want better for their children, but most don't have the option. Wanting better for your children isn't a smart exclusive thing, nor is being able to choose where you live. I know, but if we can't make things better for people who don't want to be helped then what can we do? I personally think talking to folks could help, but they both work a lot more with people who are both hurting and wish to hurt others.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:15
|
|
|
Given that Chukka couldn’t win his seat I find that suggestion rather unworkable
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:15
|
|
|
The two moments of Labour pandering to gammons that always stick in my head are Gordon Brown apologising to that bigoted woman and Emily Thornberry being sacked for tweeting that picture of a house with England flags. I think that's why I've always had a lot of sympathy for Thornberry, I hated the way Milliband threw her under the bus like that. It would be funny if she ends up Prime Minister after all that
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:15
|
|
|
marktheando posted:The two moments of Labour pandering to gammons that always stick in my head are Gordon Brown apologising to that bigoted woman and Emily Thornberry being sacked for tweeting that picture of a house with England flags. I think that's why I've always had a lot of sympathy for Thornberry, I hated the way Milliband threw her under the bus like that. Corbyn got his rear end beaten black and blue by the media about his personal non existent antisemitism, whereas Thornberry will be hung drawn and quartered for her hatred of the glorious and non racist flag of engerland
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:17
|
|
|
Definitely feeling the centrists trying for a grab at labour now. Seen a few people on twitter suggesting corbyn needs to step down immediately. They know their politics sucks dick, and has failed on its own and through the Lib Dems. They know its only hope would be through a vehicle like Labour. This is the first battle of the new war. The melts can't be allowed to take back power of the party.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:18
|
|
|
The election has been lost, but the fire can't be put out. The hatred of the status quo, the millions who suffer from austerity, the youth who sees no future in this neoliberal hellworld - it will not disappear because of one election. The real tragedy is the continued suffering and death of tens of thousands under Tory misrule, but if anything, what Corbyn offered was a safety valve on this lovely state of affairs. The anger and pain is still there and grows stronger every day, and change will come even without voting booths.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:19
|
|
|
Jose posted:labour right plotting a coup already Surely a new Labour leader and shadow cabinet will be installed within the next 5 months regardless?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:20
|
|
|
I’m seeing the use of ‘hope’ as a possible slogan for Labour going forward. I think it’s a mistake. Hope is almost passive, a desire that things might change. Any slogan has to be active, and persuasive. ‘Rise’ works for me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:20
|
|
|
Bit nonspecific.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:21
|
|
|
OwlFancier, you're missing an important point here. Think about actual traditional British values. Write some out before proceeding with reading. Then write out the values and policies of Jeremy Corbyn and Labour under him. Especially the values. Then compare. And ask yourself "how many people are going to look at the problems Corbyn wanted to fix and see an accusation that a lot of the values they based their lives on were worthless all along?". It's the truth. A lot of our modern society and our lives is built on duping people into striving for goals that are utterly worthless, irrelevant bullshit and a lot of our dearest values cannot bear closer scrutiny without crumbling, especially patriotism and hard work. We strive for status symbols and comfort and the world is burning down because of it, but we did a lot to get those things. It's an incredibly bitter pill to swallow. Any good leftist will have faced to it a very long time ago, accepted that morality is a learned trait and works hard to better themselves, knowing that it takes eternal diligence and yet still you will find that you ended up being an rear end in a top hat due to ignorance. A lot of bad leftists end up just using themselves as an yardstick of moral purity, or worse, pretending like they were always good people even when that's not a thing that people are born as. But you're not trying to appeal to committed leftists here. Corbyn's message, where both well-intentioned and true, carries these implications. And as a result, it looks like Corbyn is calling the British public out on being self-centered, ignorant and obsessed with actively harmful bullshit. Of course they're going to call him an rear end in a top hat. The problem doesn't apply to just the British but it takes a hell of a wizard to serve that plate up and make it palatable.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:23
|
|
|
Working at the CAB today was surreal, we made an appointment for one person who had gotten solidly hosed on their PIP claim only for them to proceed to tell us that they were happy the Conservatives had got in, with a big thumbs up. This sounds like STDH but it did in fact happen. Mood among me and my colleagues could be politely described as "sombre".
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:23
|
|
|
Long day at work, but I’m glad I was there. I’m lucky enough to have a job where I can throw myself into trying to help people a little bit, and it makes it easier. I hope you’re all holding up OK. For what it’s worth, I’m proud to have you lot as comrades. You’ve done everything you could to fight for the vulnerable - tried to shoulder the weight of those too lost to look for a way out. It was a terrible night and it’s a Friday 13th worthy of the name. For my part I feel sad and angry but it’s all blurred behind a big dull wall of emotional and physical exhaustion. I’d been having nightmares about the result and worrying constantly - it’s not great to see all that come true. Last night I lay in bed with a vivid video behind my eyelids, floating above all the dark streets I’ve trudged down these weeks. What was it May said? The people voted for pain? The grimness of it is that the bulk of that pain will be borne by those least able to withstand it. What little is in that tory manifesto is ominous. They’ll do everything to lock themselves in with gerrymandering and voter ID. They’ll go for their sinister reworking of the checks on their power. Still hope won’t go back in the box unless we let it. Recover now, however you need to. It’s alright to feel like poo poo just now; gently caress knows I (and my immigrant partner, who again I’ve got to see dealing with feeling rejected by my country and my region) have spent breath raging and cursing everything. Angry is good. This time it’s not despair. Just please don’t give up. A lot of you, like the campaigners out there, have been an inspiration to me with your knowledge, passion and empathy. We will need that to help safeguard people in the rough times coming. And we must keep pushing for socialism through whatever means present themselves. Without it everything’s hosed soon enough, and everyone from the FT to the FoE knows it. I’m afraid we’re cursed to live in interesting times.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:24
|
|
|
Maybe "We can all be better". Or maybe "The time for using a scalpel to remove this cancer has ended. Bring forth the torch".
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:24
|
|
|
learnincurve posted:Show horse/pony breeding (for smaller amateur shows, not your expensive ponies) and she owns a small lunchtime cafe as her main job. If you went in there without knowing anything about her you would think just she was anyone’s friendly aunt who likes a gossip. Oh god, moving horses/ponies by sea is a pain in the rear end, I feel for her.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:26
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Problem is if you're doing that I'm going to suggest "break the chains" Ooh, as someone was asking about political metal earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbpMqDqBHr0 loving banger.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:26
|
|
|
I unironically think "eat the rich" will be effective.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:26
|
|
|
FREE PORTS ENTERPRISE ZONES SUPERCHARGED SINGAPORE STYKE PORTS WITH KO TARRIFS
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:27
|
|
|
Maybe poor people just flat out don't identify as poor and think that "poor people" are like..... Non-whites or something. So pro-poor policies don't resonate with the voting poor.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
Pesmerga posted:I’m seeing the use of ‘hope’ as a possible slogan for Labour God no. It's vague, it's Obamaish, and besides - people don't want hope, it's just better than despair. What they want is the things they hope for.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
I've always been a fan of "come together" as a political slogan for any left-wing party. It serving double duty as a 
JordanKai fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 13, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:Think about actual traditional British values. Write some out before proceeding with reading. Eisteddfodau and measuring things in furlongs? Some weird tradition involving woading yourself up and chasing a stuffed rabbit around a pole so that the spring comes in?
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:29
|
|
|
Azza Bamboo posted:I unironically think "eat the rich" will be effective. Even comes in Old Labour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh3t49NsWBA and New Labour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45B5_VHQy64
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:31
|
|
|
JordanKai posted:I've always been a fan of "come together" as a political slogan for any left-wing party. It serving double duty as a Stones reference couldn't hurt either. It's the Beatles. Also Primal Scream.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:31
|
|
|
I think people think too small and become so fed up with the way things are, but can't see them changing. Whoever was posting about the slow cancellation of the future was spot on
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:32
|
|
|
A lot of people forgetting that more people voted against the Tories than for them - even if the Lib Dems are centrist garbage, a lot of the people who voted for them hate Boris Johnson and everything he stands for. And a lot of people didn't vote at all. There isn't a majority in the country desperate to be owned by the Tories, and anyone trying to claim that the UK is staunchly conservative and Labour's policies were too radical is ignoring how popular the policies were individually, and ignoring the fact that the Tory party is too right wing for more than half the voting population. This was a huge defeat, but I think claiming that Britain is full of small minded racists who vote against their own interests, or that everything is lost and there's no hope, is buying into a false narrative and not looking at how people actually voted.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:32
|
|
|
I think Thornberry and Starmer would both have the same problem as Labour leader - too much baggage. Thornberry for being in during the financial crash (it was *YOU* who is responsible for all our national debt) and Starmer, as the lead remainer of Labour, will surely be too toxic for Leave voters - in the same way that remainers loved to go off on how Corbyn was a secret brexiteer. These would just be easily sticking narratives that would never piss off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:33
|
|
|
endlessmonotony posted:OwlFancier, you're missing an important point here. But my conception of leftism is that we don't have those things, I have never had those things, I have never owned anything worthwhile, I have never had any status, I have never had patriotism. I don't even know what "british values" are other than something weird nationalists have because I have never been part of them. I do not feel british, I do not feel a part of the country, because the country has never wanted me to be a part of it, the country barely exists, as far as I'm concerned. I feel like a part of the people around me, I feel like a part of the land I have lived on, I feel like a component in a machine of production that I have no say in the operation of, but I do not feel british, because I don't know what that is. Corbyn's platform appealed to me because it addressed those things, it gave me greater security through society, it gave me a greater purpose to work towards, it gave me a community of others who believed too, that this was something to work towards, a prosperity for us all, through us all, to secure all our futures, to forge an unbroken chain into the future and the past. And I do not understand the charge that this is some ivory tower liberal intelligentsia poo poo. I am not rich, I have never had money, I never will have money, I have never worked for anything other than minimum wage. If I am not working class, then who is? If this is not why workers turn to socialism, what is? Is it not our right to demand safety, security, community, purpose and a future? Is it not infinitely more abiding than some top hat wearing aristo's dream of empire? That is not my dream, it can not be my dream, I can not ever be a part of that. My dream is the worker's dream, that countless others before me have dreamed too. That is my past, my heritage, and what I wish could be my future. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Dec 13, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:33
|
|
|
goddamnedtwisto posted:It's the Beatles. Oops. I didn't sleep very well last night, my bad. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 04:06 |
|
|
People, especially older voters, like flags and patriotism and the feeling of being part of something. You can think it's dumb and that they shouldn't prioritize those things, but that doesn't mean that you can ignore them. You have to find a way for your platform to co-opt and harness those forces, or you leave them to be harnessed by the Trumps and Farages of the world.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2019 22:38
|
|