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Near the end of the game you start getting dialogue options that are usually some variant of "this is pointless, gently caress off" and if you do that he'll leave you alone for the rest of the game, and it's very frustrating that that is your only way to 'beat him' in a debate. You can't actually win any of the debates you have with MILTON, not even in a begrudging way. This isn't a failure of the writers in my opinion because they establish that this is just how MILTON is. His whole purpose is to reconcile and sort data and humans cannot be sorted because they're so contradictory. But most of the discussions you have with him aren't even about that topic and you still can't get one over on him, not because it's impossible to do so, but because he will literally never accept any cogent point you make. It's incredibly frustrating. He's an incredibly realistic depiction of some dick on an internet forum who thinks he knows everything.Zanzibar Ham posted:Because there's a chievo for it? True that.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:02
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Inspector Gesicht posted:My two gripes with Talos is that the text-computers are boring and break up the gameplay, and that recorder puzzles are the loving worse. It's telling that whenever someone submits a player-made puzzle they always tag it with "No Recorders". Also that the expac moved away from them.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:04
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They announced a sequel years ago but it won't be released until after Serious Sam 4, a game in a series I don't care about. It's very telling that the oddball hits like Talos, Goose Game, Outer Wilds etc. have no combat whatsoever.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:08
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I think I might be the only person in the world who actually enjoyed the recorder puzzles 
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Dec 14, 2019 01:22
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I think a recorder puzzle would work better in a turn-based puzzle game e.g. "I move my guy to this pressure-plate on the map and wait 8 turns, then head to the time-machine, return to turn 1 on the timeline, and cross the bridge made accessible by my alternate self". Having to wait in real-time however just louses things up. You have to remember a specific sequence of moving and stalling before enacting the plan without fail. There's a lot of trial-and-error involved made time consuming with recorder-puzzles, unless it's a core mechanic of the game.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:35
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The recorder puzzles actually made my brain feel like it was stretching until it could accommodate them, which was a weird but rewarding feeling.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:44
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I do understand why people don't like them to be fair; if you're trial and erroring them, then having to wait around etc. only to fail and have to restart is super annoying. I think I like them because I like puzzles where you have to bend your brain into a different shape and suddenly everything snaps into focus and you start interacting with the mechanics in a whole new way. You can do some mad poo poo by combining the recorders with other puzzle mechanics once your brain starts thinking in multiple iterations at once, to the point that sometimes you're not sure whether what you just did was the intended solution or you found a way to game the setup. To be honest, I think that's a big part of why the recorders didn't work for a lot of people; Talos generally rewards trial and error and presents its puzzles as physical things to be fiddled with, while the recorder puzzles are more rewarding if you approach them as conceptual problems, so it's a mismatch of puzzle style that's jarring and sets you on the wrong track to start with. And since they're sprinkled in with other puzzles, it's harder to hit that groove and keep your brain bent in the right shape. You could make a great real time game based primarily around the recorder mechanics and I think it would be less off-putting because you'd be training the player upfront and rewarding them for a consistent approach to the game's puzzles, but I agree they're probably not a great fit for Talos even if I enjoy them.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:57
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While I didn't despise them, I found the recorders the worst when it came to situations where I realized the solution but misplaced/mistimed an element by just a bit.
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Dec 14, 2019 02:00
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The recorder puzzles and Milton are both good. Although to be fair I don't remember if the game ever mentioned there's a fast forward button or if you just have to look at the keybindings to find it, doing the recorders without it sounds a lot worse.
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Dec 14, 2019 02:20
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This is more a "My internet" problem than a game problem, but every game that needs a download the second I put it in. Right now Dragon Quest XI, but man, my lovely internet makes it more unpleasant than it needs to be.
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Dec 14, 2019 02:28
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Actually, this reminded me of the one thing I really do dislike in the Talos Principle. There are a bunch of stars you can find in the world. They're almost all extra puzzles outside of the normal puzzle area - a lot of them require figuring out how to sneak items outside of the limited puzzle area you normally use them in. This is really cool, and fun, and a great extension of the normal puzzle solving you do. There's one star, in the base game, which instead requires outside tools (something to read QR codes) and outside knowledge that your character has no way of knowing. If this was its own standalone easter egg it would be fine, but tying it to a collectable when all of the other collectables can be found using nothing but ingame logic is really frustrating.
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Dec 14, 2019 03:06
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Late to Far Cry 5 chat, but the thing that bugged me most in Jacob's kidnapping things was, the first time, when you're running the drug nightmare training course thing, when you finally kill the last guy you get some slow dramatic camera zoom stuff. "Oh," I thought, "it means that was really an ally or somebody important that you got tricked into killing and you get caught up in the momentum and don't realize until it's too late, that's pretty cool." Except it wasn't, then. That's what happens with the last guy the third time you do the course.
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Dec 14, 2019 04:10
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GyverMac posted:The new modern warfare really bamboozle my lizard brain. I dont know whether to love or hate it. One one hand you have the flashy rewards and the satisfying kills, the weapons and the sound, on the other you have the the super low time to kill and the horribly designed maps making the game feel like RNG most of the time. The biggest issue with MW is the matchmaking. They use a skill based matchmaking that in theory drops you into matches with players around your skill level. What it actually does is drop you into games where you will get monster dunked on for a few rounds, do decently for a few rounds and then do well a few rounds. Then this starts over. Its one of the most confusing design decisions I've ever seen in a game. It guarantees a string of frustrating games constantly. Combine that with CoD's inability to get player spawning where you either spawn with someone ready to shoot you in the back, or spawn in behind others yourself.
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Dec 14, 2019 06:41
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Snake Maze posted:The recorder puzzles and Milton are both good. I knew about the fastforwarding. People can know how the game works and still dislike a certain puzzle element. Snake Maze posted:There's one star, in the base game, which instead requires outside tools (something to read QR codes) and outside knowledge that your character has no way of knowing. If this was its own standalone easter egg it would be fine, but tying it to a collectable when all of the other collectables can be found using nothing but ingame logic is really frustrating. I know which one you mean, I also found that one to be uniquely lame.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:37
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Shovel Knight: King of cards have 3 levels that are a single screen with a collection of chests and an NPC that gives you a unique card. I just charged through a breakable wall in one that concealed the exit and followed through before I talked to the guy, and the level disappears when you’re done 
Dr Christmas has a new favorite as of 02:32 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 10:52
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CJacobs posted:He's an incredibly realistic depiction of some dick on an internet forum who thinks he knows everything. Nailed it. I do love how you almost feel him squirming at the end once you are the one asking the questions.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:01
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If you do not like MILTON, it's still worth maintaining contact with him throughout the entire game, all however-many-hours of it, just because in the very last super final 2-steps-from-the-ending interaction with him you can straight up say "get bent" and log off immediately. You do not have to say anything else. He says "Hello, one last conversation?", you say "get bent", and that is the goddamn end of him. It is so utterly satisfying. (here is me reacting to this blind because why not) CJacobs has a new favorite as of 11:19 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 11:08
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I mean, given what (or who) Milton represents and why he's named Milton in the first place, his behavior is thematically appropriate and very much on-point.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:17
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Also they named the dude who tries to deceive you in the garden of Eden "Milton" which is so loving on the nose that you've got to love it. If only the terminal was a Macbook too.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:19
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food court bailiff posted:They’re not that lengthy, and not the same every time though? The way some of you talk about this game makes me wonder if you actually played it. That's not how you do a open world game.
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Dec 14, 2019 12:24
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I never finished the Talos Principle, (I think the recorder puzzles wore me down, but it's been a few years so I'm iffy on some of the details) but I really liked talking to Milton. It may well have changed later in the game, but I think we were starting to understand one another?
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Dec 14, 2019 12:52
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For most of the game Milton only really agrees with you on any subject if you refuse to imply it has any goal or purpose and gently caress that I thought you were a supercomputer not a 14 year old When he started going like "so you think killing all weak infants before they reach adolescence would make a good society huh that's what you're saying you hypocrite!!" I was like you are the dumbest computer ever edit: Don't get me wrong, I really love the way The Talos Principle presents debating philosophy with a supercomputer. What I do not love is debating philosophy with Milton because he is completely unreasonable. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 13:43 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 13:36
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PancakeTransmission posted:The biggest thing that dragged down FC5 for me was when I was flying a helicopter over a compound that turned out to be the zone's boss area, but I wasn't supposed to go there yet or something. So it played The Music, the screen went blurry, and it took away my helicopter and teleported me outside of the base area. With no explanation. It's not the biggest problem I had with FC5, but I'm still puzzled by what they'd done to the enemy AI. In 3 and 4, you had to carefully take out enemies at guard posts without alerting anyone or they'd trigger the alarm and summon a horde of baddies to fight off. In 5, I could strafe an outpost from a helicopter gunship and the people I missed didn't seem to notice anything wrong. Really killed the game for me once I realised that between the starting pistol being the Golden Gun from Goldeneye and helicopters being silent and invisible death machines, I didn't have to bother with any attempt at stealth.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:56
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 Like at one point he feeds you everybody's favorite pointless debate question with no answer, the trolley problem. But the issue is with his phrasing. He says this one person "puts the lives of the others at risk", not that they will die, which compromises the whole drat thing. It's pointless to give him EITHER answer with the way he's phrased it because you don't have enough information. This is how he presents these conversation path openers over and over where no matter what you say he can go AH HA YOU FOOL MUNCH ON THIS MORAL LESSON WHILE YOU DO PUZZLES and it's just annoying.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:58
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Sometimes people argue in bad faith. Even in a game.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:02
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Well sure but my whole point is that the game expects you to reconcile with him and learn to appreciate each other but he is so deeply unpleasant that I only made myself do it because I was livestreaming and people would get mad if I told him to stuff it.
CJacobs has a new favorite as of 14:06 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 14:04
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Does it? What stops you from telling him to get bent once the option shows up? Picking that option doesn't give you a gameover far as I know. e: I mean, there's barely a difference between what happens if you tell him 'i'll remember what you've taught me' and 'get bent' that I remember
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Dec 14, 2019 14:06
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The Talos Principle doesn't force you to be friendly with him but the game makes it clear that Croteam would very much like you to be, because the person that even gives you the ability to shut him up is the pretty-much-the-antagonist god-complex-wannabe. You can't tell him to go away until Elohim gives you an override that lets you get rid of him, and then you can either do that the 'friendly' way ("get bent") or by force.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:08
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I don't know what Croteam intended, but I have no problem imagining that both of them are antagonists or can be.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:11
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There's not really any changed outcome to befriending Milton iirc, you can bring him with but the game doesn't really care either way. I found him super annoying to talk too as well tbh, but I still helped him, admittedly partly to spite him for calling my moral character into question the whole time. I don't think he's an antagonist or a good dude, he's just...there. and not super happy about it. You can totally ignore him if you like and the game doesn't mind or prompt you to interact with him all that much. small ghost has a new favorite as of 14:19 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 14:15
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I don't know what Croteam intended, but I have no problem imagining that both of them are antagonists or can be. True, but being an incorrigible dick isn't really enough to make a good antagonist in my opinion. But even so I don't think that's the case, because Milton's purpose is to inspire doubt in the player so that they defy Elohim and complete the simulation (which is of course the only way to escape) so imo he can't really be an antagonist. He's there to encourage you to think freely but he either has forgotten this over the many retries the simulation has been through OR is withholding it because he thinks it would just turn you against him. Whether he likes it or not, he's working with the goals of the very humans he dislikes for their scatterbrained behavior. You can learn this relatively early on in the game in fact if you try to bust out of bounds and find easter eggs and stuff, but you never get the chance to point this out to him because he wouldn't be able to defend himself. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 14:20 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 14:17
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I don't think you need Milton to start doubting Elohim. Just the tower's existence by itself is enough to get the player to go "out of bounds", so to speak. I think if I get this right, you think Croteam think Milton is very right and smart, and is justified in being a complete shithead, which if that's the case then I agree they're wrong. I just don't know if that's really their intention with regards to him.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:26
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Not really, I just feel like it's reasonable to assume they want you to grow and develop a non-hostile relationship with him. In my opinion they did a poor job of it because he never really changes or develops himself until right up near the end, and everything before that is just him throwing you softballs but not giving you a bat to swing at em.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:29
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If they truly intended for the average player to befriend/develop a positive opinion of Milton, then yeah, making him someone who'll never consider/admit being wrong about anything (kind of ironic) was a big mistake on their part.
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Dec 14, 2019 14:32
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Shovel Knight: King of Cards In the endgame they mix up slidy platforms with bottomless pit and then add super persistent flying enemies that take four hits to kill. In Shovel Knight falling into a pit/lava/spikes is instant death so the suit of armour that reduces this to major damage feels mandatory, it's not worth wearing anything else. In the last level they have an auto-scrolling part where you have to hitch onto moving black ledges on a black background. Sekiro may have been impossible but even that game considered fall damage a minor nuisance and not worth a game-over every time. Inspector Gesicht has a new favorite as of 16:26 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 16:11
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The thing dragging ace attorney down for me is the existence of Larry Butz. gently caress Larry, I wish I could go back and lose his first case so he'd be locked away forever.
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Dec 14, 2019 20:26
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Yes, gently caress butz
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Dec 14, 2019 20:31
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Blasphemous Goddamn the amount of backtracking this game expects you to do is ridiculous. The fast travel system might as well not exist because there aren't enough travel points and they're placed in such a way that you'll still have to go back through several rooms of enemies that take more than one hit to kill. It's a shame because it could have been a really fun game otherwise but if a game wants me to travel back through precision platforming rooms filled with one hit kill pits and spike traps it's clear that it doesn't respect my time and I have no desire to continue playing.
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Dec 14, 2019 20:42
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MechWarrior 5 I have never in my life been less invested in a game's plot; there are arcade games whose lore I care more about. Holy beans the presentation is a sack of dead mice. I finally get out of the tutorial and start enjoying the game, but every so often a "go talk to the Relentless Talking Machine on the bridge" pops up and the game refuses to do anything until I go do that. Also the gameplay loop is pretty shallow.
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Dec 15, 2019 00:12
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Dr Christmas posted:Shovel Knight: King of cards have 3 levels that are a single screen just a collection of chests and an NPC tat gives you a unique card.  
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Dec 15, 2019 00:18
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