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serious gaylord posted:If possible can anyone either record or find clips from your local news about people being interviewed about why they voted tory in the labour strongholds that flipped? This sounds really interesting and I’d like to know more about it!
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Dec 14, 2019 09:08
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serious gaylord posted:If possible can anyone either record or find clips from your local news about people being interviewed about why they voted tory in the labour strongholds that flipped? I've got no quotes for you but from living in one of those heartlands and talking with people it is a combination of a loss of trust in labour mps ground down since the Blair years, the desolation of the high street, corrupt councillors (this is an issue labour needs to grasp) and good old racism. It's the same reason these areas voted leave. Nothing has been working for them for years, they just want change - any change... and racism.
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Dec 14, 2019 09:08
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I mean, my town's ex council leader ran off with half of the money to improve our football stadium and is still under legal investigation, and our council has gone bust under Conservative management for decades, but that didn't stop the town still splitting 40% Tory support, so I'm not sure how much local matters affect actually entrenched views in a general election.
Weasling Weasel fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 09:15
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GET BREXIT WEXIT NIEXIT SEXIT DONE
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Dec 14, 2019 09:21
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serious gaylord posted:If possible can anyone either record or find clips from your local news about people being interviewed about why they voted tory in the labour strongholds that flipped? Here’s this from the BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50781738
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Dec 14, 2019 09:35
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Weasling Weasel posted:I mean, my town's ex council leader ran off with half of the money to improve our football stadium and is still under legal investigation, and our council has gone bust under Conservative management for decades, but that didn't stop the town still splitting 40% Tory support, so I'm not sure how much local matters affect actually entrenched views in a general election. Honestly I'd be more inclined to agree with this, here on the Isle of Wight it's been Tory for literally decades, our last MP had to leave over homophobic remarks and our current one has a bad habit of voting for cuts for the island, yet the IoW still went all blue. It's the racism.
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Dec 14, 2019 09:39
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Gasmask posted:Here’s this from the BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50781738 Christ.
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Dec 14, 2019 09:43
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Terribly wrong... or terribly right?  https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1205632627312603138
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Dec 14, 2019 09:45
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I think Brexit would have scuppered this election almost regardless of what labour did, but I wonder if labour isn’t left with a bit of an identity crisis. The endless media regurgitation of taking us back to the 70s seemed to stick to some extent - just coupling that with what people are saying upthread and does labour need to try and redefine itself I’m an age where the industrial working class and union membership has all but disappeared? People are talking about ongoing community action as a new way of keeping an ongoing activist base in the way union membership used to, whilst that would work I don’t know how it would be organised. Can we more simply redefine ourselves as the party of public service, and of public services? I mean the nhs, education, hell even the police are now solidly labour. In the same way as pushing the Vote NHS, Vote Labour line? I don’t think I actually have a conclusion here just spewing thoughts for people to interact with.
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Dec 14, 2019 09:54
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So we had 12 years to fix the climate, are we're going to piss away 5 years with Boris. Excellent. and I'm so pleased my eldery relatives are gloating about damaging my future! The only silver lining is that a big recession is due coupled with brexit- it might destroy the housing market, with no blame on labour.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:09
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JoylessJester posted:So we had 12 years to fix the climate, are we're going to piss away 5 years with Boris. Excellent. and I'm so pleased my eldery relatives are gloating about damaging my future!
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Dec 14, 2019 10:20
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JoylessJester posted:So we had 12 years to fix the climate, are we're going to piss away 5 years with Boris. Excellent. and I'm so pleased my eldery relatives are gloating about damaging my future! Brexit will be the opportunity for the US to stave off the next GFC by looting the entire British economy, and the Tories are definitely going to remove even our current figleaf brassplate restrictions on foreign companies buying up entire chunks of the UK housing market to keep that bubble inflated.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:21
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/14/labour-meltdown-decades-govern-votes Both says what I was trying to say and critiques it I suppose. I don’t know how workable labour as citizens advice is though?
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Dec 14, 2019 10:25
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Gasmask posted:Here’s this from the BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50781738 This is so depressing
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Dec 14, 2019 10:25
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Can anyone point me towards some resources on parallel community support/organisation? I have slowly become the defacto head of a small community group, want to see what we can do.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:27
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Gasmask posted:Here’s this from the BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50781738 This is exactly what im talking about. People utterly exasperated that their towns have been run down and its the labour MP's 'fault' so they're trying something new. Complaining that all the funding is going to Wigan and that their market stalls are closing down as if Labour could have stopped it. I'm trying to get as much as I can, even if its just vox pops or radio phone in shows. If it gets enough interest I'll look into delving a bit deeper. My feeling is that Boris played as an opposition style candidate in these areas, and that it wasn't just 'get brexit done' for a lot of these people. That he highlighted a decade of (Tory) cuts and left it as a steaming turd on the Labour MP's doorstep. That combined with the brexit crowd meant he came sweeping in and he seemed like a breath of fresh air to these people. I want to learn as much as I can so we can be better prepared to combat this in 5 years time, or its just going to happen again.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:28
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Trades posted:Can we more simply redefine ourselves as the party of public service, and of public services? I mean the nhs, education, hell even the police are now solidly labour. In the same way as pushing the Vote NHS, Vote Labour line? Unfortunately this isn’t true. A lot of my NHS colleagues didn’t vote for us or required tons of convincing, and that included people on low bands from poor backgrounds, BAME junior doctors and other people you’d expect us to pick up. In canvassing I met teachers and police many times and several of them were apathetic or openly hostile, and did not seem swayed at all by the fact this area’s schools and cops have bitten some of the worst cuts. We are still being blamed for New Labour’s failure to help places like mine. We have been blamed for the gridlock of recent years, and Johnson has been positioned as the energised opposition to the fictional Corbyn shadow government and parliament itself. I know this doesn’t make sense but it’s what has happened. A brief flurry of ‘ground game’ doesn’t change minds that have been battered into submission by years of indignity, stress and hollow aching loss, by the blaring death rattle of the systems we live under. The institutions that kept our minds safe are long gone; the North has been crushed into the mud and beaten in its heart. We can’t rely on automatic support from ‘the public sector’ here - plenty of its people have become amplifier nodes for the messages that killed us this time.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:34
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:Are they doing that to your face? Because if so, I mean... their face is right there, you know? Punching frail 80 year olds is generally frown upon. They also immediately switched to complaining about the state of the nhs/social care. Maddening.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:37
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Even though my family are all the bluest of Tory voters they won't ever gloat about it to me because they are also spineless cowards, my 84 year old Grandma who has been a Tory all her life doesn't even read basic party policy, she just trusts the Daily Mail is correct about everything.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:45
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https://twitter.com/MichaelRosenYes/status/1205776719648608256?s=19
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Dec 14, 2019 10:49
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lenoon posted:Can anyone point me towards some resources on parallel community support/organisation? I have slowly become the defacto head of a small community group, want to see what we can do. I think some of the practice within socially engaged art can be a good model potentially. The methodology is essentially research through talking, examining archives and data etc. but then talking to members of the community about their needs before responding. From my experience, meeting people you may not usually talk to is key. Some religions already have community outreach projects but as it tends to be a bit religion-y this only reaches a handful of people. Start a steering group. Invite people to it who has in-depth knowledge as well as contacts or resources they might be able to lend a hand with. Also start to map other similar groups and organise meetings with some amount of regularity. In terms of venues - libraries and religious buildings tend to be underused. Pop round and get to know the people who run libraries, any lefty cafes, colleges, existing charities, that sort of thing. Setting out a goal then working backwards to creating a strategy is key. I've worked a lot in the charity sector and its main weakness is a lack of organisation, or well-meaning people unable to do certain tasks (particularly with software/computers). Some element of training is required, as is transparency as to why x is done leading to y. Setting out goals also reduces sprawl and trying to do everything, so be focused about what you want and bear that in mind during any difficult periods. Another important part is shouting about what you're doing - document as much as you can through photos, reports, essays. Can be an idea to work with someone a bit younger and savvy with new media to do this. Not only are you documenting what you're doing, which can be handy for funding or outreach, but you have a central archive of achievements. Consider putting together zines or booklets that can then be distributed further afield. In terms of funding, I can imagine a lot of this will be eaten up over the next few years so grab it whilst you can. I've done a lot of funding apps (and might make an effort post about it later) but have a scan about. https://www.idoxopen4community.co.uk/lancashirecc?bcr=MTIzNA On a final note - be cautious about working with some people. From my experience local and county councils, especially in the regions, are loving poo poo. There's some good people but they're outnumbered by so many busy-bodies who are just collecting a wage. I think this is one of the reasons for failure in the north, a lot of the staff there are useless and been in post for years and years without any real challenge. Think about what the council do in your area, and how regularly. Might be different in different places. justcola fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Dec 14, 2019 |
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Dec 14, 2019 10:53
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Shogi where roughly are you based out of interest? I guess I’m guilty of generalising the feeling in the south east to the rest of the country, that’s the limit of my personal experience.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:54
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Noting there’s already a meme developing in the right of the party that the work activists did had a negative impact. That’s probably going to be a thing over the coming months, since it serves the dual purpose of making them feel better for doing gently caress all but attacking their own party, and demoralising the membership so they have a better chance of grabbing the reins again.
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Dec 14, 2019 10:56
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Trades posted:Shogi where roughly are you based out of interest? I guess I’m guilty of generalising the feeling in the south east to the rest of the country, that’s the limit of my personal experience. I’m a half-Cornish Teessider, twice cursed by the gods. I still love this place of strange juxtapositions, somehow
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Dec 14, 2019 11:00
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Shogi posted:I’m a half-Cornish Teessider, twice cursed by the gods. I still love this place of strange juxtapositions, somehow Aw the banana is making an egg 
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Dec 14, 2019 11:02
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John Harris's most recent series of Anywhere but Westminster was, like the previous ones, a good taste of what's been going on on the ground in labour heartlands around the country, in the run up to the election: https://youtu.be/s7eG1kbdr0M
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Dec 14, 2019 11:05
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Katt posted:Aw the banana is making an egg We are very serious about securing a future for bendy bananas here
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Dec 14, 2019 11:06
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Trades posted:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/14/labour-meltdown-decades-govern-votes That's a very good article and I think this bit is central. The Labour Party originally grew out of institutions that enabled working class participatory democracy and office holding: unions, Primitive Methodist chapels, workers educational associations and so on. We don't really do that any more. Maybe it's something parallel structures could offer.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:06
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Oh dear me posted:
I guess the two questions are what are they and how do we build them? Forming labour community centres and youth centres given how councils have retreated with budget cuts?
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Dec 14, 2019 11:22
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The collapse of labour in the north does mirror the collapse of the northern economy generally. I’m really not sure how you can help it without a nakedly political community outreach program
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Dec 14, 2019 11:29
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Trades posted:I guess the two questions are what are they and how do we build them? Forming labour community centres and youth centres given how councils have retreated with budget cuts? It's not just about services, it's about community and identity. Any enjoyable social activity can be done by a political community and so long as the focus remains on the politics rather than the activity then it'll be a popular fusion of the two rather than just a social circle. British communist parties had running and cycling groups as did unions, no reason you can't form more communist gaming clans and chat politics and raiding at the same time. Do a fundraiser activity/endurance event for a specific political aim rather than just as a charity venture.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:32
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Truly incredible pundits are trying to claim centrism is what needs to return when every centrist got destroyed
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Dec 14, 2019 11:34
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Went and joined the Labour party yesterday. Calming down a bit after yesterday and thinking about it, the results should have been predictable, unfortunately. I hoped for the best, just like a lot of people here, but thinking back the signs were there. The word "electoralism" was mentioned earlier in this thread, and I think it does pinpoint an issue. Maybe I'm veering into hot take territory here, but it just doesn't seem to me that canvassing and leafleting for 5 weeks is enough at this point, especially not when you're up against the billion-budget media machine propping up your opponents. Especially not with all the issues that I see talked about here and on Twitter (organizational issues, lack of up-to-date information, mismanagement of human resources (bleugh) and so on and so on). The activists did all they could and it was amazing to see that (thank you!), but what happened happened. There will be a demand in the next five years for positive, direct action alternative to the crumbling welfare infrastructure, a demand for protection and for support. To me it seems that covering that demand is way for the Labour party to survive in any left-wing shape or form moving forward. Yes, it'll be hard, especially with a modest budget, as it was mentioned here as well, and maybe it's just being idealistic and talking out of my arse, so I guess we'll see. Also, a lot of Labour councils and local governments seriously need to be looked at in terms of corruption and general dodginess (live in Tower Hamlets, Newham is just next door, and the amount of general fuckery going on is a tad disappointing to be honest). Also, as a EU citizen, lib dems can gently caress right off lol, along with #FBPE crowd. Not a fan of brexit obviously but come on.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:39
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serious gaylord posted:This is exactly what im talking about. People utterly exasperated that their towns have been run down and its the labour MP's 'fault' so they're trying something new. Complaining that all the funding is going to Wigan and that their market stalls are closing down as if Labour could have stopped it. Im in a Labour stronghold and all you hear about is library closures, hospital closures, flytipping, burglaries, corrupt councils, cuts cuts cuts. At some point you do start thinking “well I bet the Tory areas aren’t having it as bad.” If you’re clearly getting nothing right now, why not start sucking up to the rich people and see if they can throw you some scraps. (I absolutely did not vote Tory just to be clear...)
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Dec 14, 2019 11:40
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https://twitter.com/pedanticparties/status/1205520818505211904?s=19
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Dec 14, 2019 11:41
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Gasmask posted:Here’s this from the BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50781738 Lol, after 10 years of austerity and conservative rule everything is run down and awful, things need to change that's why I'm voting conservative lololol
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Dec 14, 2019 11:42
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Labour need to start organising and communicating us proles directly and until they do this will keep happening. We keep reacting to the alt right and pointing at them and shouting racist/fascist. It's obvious, now, given who just got the keys to number 10 with a loving huge mandate, that we'll happily elect racists and being racist doesn't put voters off. (This is not an endorsement to be racist, just that our messaging has to get better)
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Dec 14, 2019 11:43
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Jose posted:Truly incredible pundits are trying to claim centrism is what needs to return when every centrist got destroyed Centrism cannot fail, it can only be failed.
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Dec 14, 2019 11:43
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serious gaylord posted:If possible can anyone either record or find clips from your local news about people being interviewed about why they voted tory in the labour strongholds that flipped? Ian Warren (https://twitter.com/election_data) and his firm Centre for Towns have been shouting about this for a while. They are mostly ex-Labour Party data analysts. They have a lot of interesting analysis on how badly the councils in these Labour areas are performing compared to the idealised national party messaging. For every Preston council which is dynamic and trying to introduce 21st century collaborative socialism (like localised in-sourcing) there are loads of Labour councils that are completely calcified and seem content to circle the drain while thinking that blaming Tory central cuts will keep them in office (hint: Election result 12/12/19, not going to keep working).
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Dec 14, 2019 11:43
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fridge corn posted:Lol, after 10 years of austerity and conservative rule everything is run down and awful, things need to change that's why I'm voting conservative lololol I can see the next election having record low turnout and not just for voter suppression reasons. Will be interesting seeing how they justify voter ID after winning a landslide not like it matters
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Dec 14, 2019 11:45
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