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Brand ourselves as a group with a "scientific approach to community organising" and then brand all of our projects with the suffix "lab"
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Dec 15, 2019 16:22
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Vote New Labrador!
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Dec 15, 2019 16:25
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Azza Bamboo posted:Brand ourselves as a group with a "scientific approach to community organising" and then brand all of our projects with the suffix "lab" Starting to think we should have made that cult of Corbyn literal. Worked for the Scientologists!
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Dec 15, 2019 16:27
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Let's set up a think tank to fight back against the media loving things up all the time We just need some multimillionaire donors who really want to throw down and help the poor anyone?
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Dec 15, 2019 16:28
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Darth Walrus posted:Starting to think we should have made that cult of Corbyn literal. Prestonmodelists
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Dec 15, 2019 16:28
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https://twitter.com/EmergencyBod/status/1206213973152014337?s=20
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Dec 15, 2019 16:33
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Nice to see the Observer are positioning themselves to continue the antisemitism furore. ‘The next Labour leader must tackle the antisemitism crisis head on’ or some poo poo. Is this life now? Just the same lies on the soles of a thousand boots until we accept the very neoliberal death of our civilisations? (Sorry for my whinging today. I have had a stupid chronic pain thing going most of this year which I managed to block out during the campaign but hit me like a ton of bricks yesterday. Looks like I might need to push for a referral and surgery while I still can. I am also dreading having to see my family who are almost entirely composed of gloating Facebook-fash headbangers who won’t leave it alone for a minute ever. Imagine that one fella’s UKIP mum without the damascene conversions. I don’t mean to solicit sympathy but to let you know if you’re finding the prospect of Christmas an extra stress you’re not alone)
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Dec 15, 2019 16:33
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The Observer should be destroyed
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Dec 15, 2019 16:38
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If you do that though the country's position and velocity will become uncertain.
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Dec 15, 2019 16:41
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Shogi posted:Nice to see the Observer are positioning themselves to continue the antisemitism furore. ‘The next Labour leader must tackle the antisemitism crisis head on’ or some poo poo. Is this life now? Just the same lies on the soles of a thousand boots until we accept the very neoliberal death of our civilisations? Yeah families can be interesting, especially when you have several persons with interesting opinions congregating. All the best and hope there won't be too much gloating
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Dec 15, 2019 16:43
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Hello thread. Just caught up on the last few pages after a self-imposed everything blackout from around 22:10 on Thursday. Not going near the Graun anytime soon, Twitter deletion is proving to be prescient. I'm so glad for this thread. I am now joining the Labour party (should have done so ages ago), is there an exclusion period for voting for the new leader? I voted for Corbyn the first time, but then left the union when I left the industry. Condolences to those with families who are going to be smug or Tory in the coming weeks. My Facebook's been mercifully despairing since the vote, the worst I've seen is some Winnie the Pooh platitudes about remaining friends - one from a lefty NHS doctor, and one from someone who may have voted Tory, although he should also be pro-EU so who knows. And a cousin-in-law approvingly sharing that JessPhlps article. You are all excellent humans and we will continue doing the thing. The prospect of 5 solid years makes supporting those affected outside the system a higher priority. What are the best places to throw money to make that happen?
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Dec 15, 2019 16:50
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Bobstar posted:You are all excellent humans and we will continue doing the thing. The prospect of 5 solid years makes supporting those affected outside the system a higher priority. What are the best places to throw money to make that happen? Join the discord (in the OP) and get on the discussion next Wednesday at 8pm where we're talking about ways to support the vulnerable in the UKMT community and further.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:06
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Is it normal to feel painfully misanthropic at this point? I've always considered myself a humanist and felt that people are inherently good, and I know that's one hell of a delusion to be under in the years leading up to this event but it's what's been keeping me going and let me deal with people positively. Now I just kind of want to hear about old people unable to get the care they want and workers getting their rights trampled on and I want to see everyone who believed they backed the right horse go under the same wheels that have already rolled over the people they can't bare thinking about. I actively hope those who are smug about the result experience the worst these years have to come, and as I suffer alongside them I'll be reminding them the entire time: They wanted this. Okay edgy and cringy time over but seriously gently caress this dumb nation, we deserve a No Deal and then I can enjoy watching us try to make England survive
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Dec 15, 2019 17:13
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If it worked that way around toryism wouldn't be a problem, sadly the people who voted for it won't be the first to suffer.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:15
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OwlFancier posted:If it worked that way around toryism wouldn't be a problem, sadly the people who voted for it won't be the first to suffer. One of the first things they announced was a roll back on the promise to not sell old people’s houses to pay for social care so don’t be so sure on that one.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:16
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https://twitter.com/boonycarlsberg/status/1206153048260829184?s=20
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Dec 15, 2019 17:19
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Their sexual liasons from 20 years ago.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:22
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What's that question even supposed to be? They don't "fear" anyone, they have all the money and the power. The only thing they're "afraid" of is someone taking that off them and the only thing that would do that permanently is complete social restructuring and/or the guillotine. They certainly aren't afraid of another blair, because history has shown that that's actually really easy for them to recover from.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:24
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Songbearer posted:Is it normal to feel painfully misanthropic at this point? I've always considered myself a humanist and felt that people are inherently good, and I know that's one hell of a delusion to be under in the years leading up to this event but it's what's been keeping me going and let me deal with people positively. Eh, I felt like that for a little bit but then a couple of things made me reconsider: 1. There's much more people who didn't vote for this than those who did, especially among the most vulnerable categories, 2. A few of those who did were genuinely misled or didn't think too much about ramifications of their vote. Stuff like this does test one's humanism though, esp considering the gloating mentioned here earlier. If I was Dominic Cummings, I would've definitely used this narrative about turkeys voting for Christmas to demoralize left-wing activists even further btw ;D e: regarding the questions of who the tories fear the most, I'd definitely not listen to who they say they fear the most lol, that's like 3rd grade level of scheming. Like, "ooh we're sooooo afraid of this melty centristy terfy careerist, ooooh scary-scary, please please don't elect her or we're done and dusted lololo" nurmie fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 15, 2019 17:24
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Songbearer posted:Is it normal to feel painfully misanthropic at this point? I've always considered myself a humanist and felt that people are inherently good, and I know that's one hell of a delusion to be under in the years leading up to this event but it's what's been keeping me going and let me deal with people positively. I'm a Yank but posts like these, IMO, are far more demoralizing than the biggest Tory landslide could ever be. There's always going to be people who never asked to live in hellworld.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:29
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I don't feel misanthropic but I think this whole episode has taught me that I'm painfully disconnected from reality. The bubble I exist within has completely misread the mood among the electorate and is now having a hard time reconciling the high level academic moral and economic ideas we enjoy with the ground level issue of getting anything done in the real world. I don't mean getting brexit done, but our own things: caring for the poor and vulnerable. We're now to understand that the society we live in isn't going to change overnight as to build systems that sort things out for us. Instead we're going to have to do it ourselves, and whether or not we do will be a punishing test of our convictions given the shambles the economy is in and the fact that this kind of thinking appeals to people in a disadvantaged position. In a way the kind of mean 1950s dad figure we've come to hate is right: you have to get off your arse and earn it, son. Fair? Life's not fair, boy. Toughen up. I guess that is misanthropic, but directed inwardly at myself and not at others.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:40
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I'm not sure Rupert Murdoch is up for being leader of Labour.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:41
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New Labour Leader, A TV Trolley With The DVDs From Jeffrey Epstein's Safe.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:43
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Bobstar posted:I am now joining the Labour party (should have done so ages ago), is there an exclusion period for voting for the new leader? I voted for Corbyn the first time, but then left the union when I left the industry. Not usually, indeed, the last couple of times have had the (effectively) 'make a one time donation to vote for Labour leader' option. You should get a vote as a member straight off the bat. And it's not like the election is goign to be tomorrow, anyway.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:49
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Azza Bamboo posted:In a way the kind of mean 1950s dad figure we've come to hate is right: you have to get off your arse and earn it, son. Fair? Life's not fair, boy. Toughen up. In... like... the most semantic and superficial reading possible, perhaps. But what you want is completely different, the process is completely different, and most people like that didn't "get off their arse and earn it" they were handed it on a silver plate and have convinced themselves retroactively that they weren't. And now refuse to recognize any other sort of work or desire as legitimate.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:50
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Songbearer posted:Is it normal to feel painfully misanthropic at this point? I've always considered myself a humanist and felt that people are inherently good, and I know that's one hell of a delusion to be under in the years leading up to this event but it's what's been keeping me going and let me deal with people positively. The way I deal with this is recognising that if my life had taken a right turn instead of a left, or if Stanley Johnson was my father I could easily be any of these people, even Johnson himself and noone is inherently evil it's all down to circumstance. They are more deluded than us and compassion is probably the correct response even if it isn't easy.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:51
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Labour will eventually come back from this: Boris is guaranteed to gently caress things up eventually and there isn’t any way of delivering a Brexit that doesn’t make things worse, a course of action to which the country is now committed.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:51
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OwlFancier posted:In... like... the most semantic and superficial reading possible, perhaps. But what you want is completely different, the process is completely different, and most people like that didn't "get off their arse and earn it" they were handed it on a silver plate and have convinced themselves retroactively that they weren't. Life's not fair.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:52
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thespaceinvader posted:Not usually, indeed, the last couple of times have had the (effectively) 'make a one time donation to vote for Labour leader' option. You should get a vote as a member straight off the bat. And it's not like the election is goign to be tomorrow, anyway. Great! Done.  Azza Bamboo posted:Life's not fair. 
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Dec 15, 2019 17:55
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Azza Bamboo posted:Life's not fair. A socialist says that because they believe their life and other's lives are hard, but could and should be easier. A tory says that because their life is easy and they want to retroactively justify it. As a statement it's meaningless without the response. Only a shithead says it and is happy about it. It means nothing as an empty platitude.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:55
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thespaceinvader posted:Not usually, indeed, the last couple of times have had the (effectively) 'make a one time donation to vote for Labour leader' option. You should get a vote as a member straight off the bat. And it's not like the election is goign to be tomorrow, anyway.
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Dec 15, 2019 17:58
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waffle posted:Oh, I could've sworn they instated a membership cutoff date for the Corbyn v Owen Smith election because I remember people desperately were trying to get others to join in time to vote anti-Corbyn (lol worked well) They did.
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Dec 15, 2019 18:01
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waffle posted:Oh, I could've sworn they instated a membership cutoff date for the Corbyn v Owen Smith election because I remember people desperately were trying to get others to join in time to vote anti-Corbyn (lol worked well) They did do this yeah, the New Labour NEC put in a rule to prevent "entryism"
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Dec 15, 2019 18:01
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Retroactively, as I recall. For quite a while. Which may have contributed to the narrower win.
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Dec 15, 2019 18:03
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Is what it is, and it always sucks for a bit. Can't really reduce that imo - I saw this coming, sort of identified that we were kind of retreating from reality in the Labour bubble but - what do you do with that information? We went down swinging, I assure you from experience that beats the alternative.
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Dec 15, 2019 18:05
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Thinking on fairness, I know it’s like a day late but re slogans what about ‘Fair work for fair pay’. Traditional, ties to the moral messaging that worked well down south and implicitly resists the handouts and scroungers counter narratives. Or does that sound too union?
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Dec 15, 2019 18:12
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CoolCab posted:Is what it is, and it always sucks for a bit. Can't really reduce that imo - I saw this coming, sort of identified that we were kind of retreating from reality in the Labour bubble but - what do you do with that information? We went down swinging, I assure you from experience that beats the alternative. Labours victories always came at having the right distribution of voters, that's why whenever anyone spoke about new registered voters or the youth I shouted about why it mattered so much where they lived. This is not new information and the hope was that strategically it was being monitored and responded to - it's why I didn't particularly worry about the news of Labour shifting resources to the northern Leave seats a few weeks before the election, it's not great news but if it was adjusted to a critical point of failure then everything could still work out fine. Seems it wasn't enough though due to much wider issues than campaign resource allocation and that's something to learn from. I'd also recommend everyone start thinking along more class politics lines rather than electoral ones.
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Dec 15, 2019 18:12
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Ultimately I reject the idea that there is a moral component to the method. People deserve decent lives, and how they're achieved doesn't come into it. When people who prospered in what today looks like a loving golden age and then turn around and say "well I earned it so you should too" they're ascribing a: a false morality to the position they're in now and b: a false process as well. They're wrong on every level. Many people "earn" better but do not actually get it, and many others got it but didn't earn it. Morality has nothing to do with it, and suggesting that "life's not fair" is simultaneously an attempt to morally justify one's own position by appealing to the supposed amorality of the world. It's mind numbingly stupid. It's one of the worst examples of a semantic stopper. It is simply saying "don't think about this." OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 15, 2019 18:13
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Oh. Well anyway, still worth joining, and as you say it won't be for a while. But I don't have a Twitter anymore to post a picture of my cut-up membership card to, if it all goes wrong! I think the thing that people will want to take from this is "see, socialism isn't popular", but that doesn't really work. Unless we think that we're turning a big dial labelled Socialism and looking back at the audience, and 2017 was good and 2019 was too far? Doesn't really make sense.
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Dec 15, 2019 18:16
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CoolCab posted:We went down swinging, I assure you from experience that beats the alternative. I love the idea of going down swinging. Do we do it again and again? After a while, does the dynamic not just become scrappy doo socialism being safely held back at arms length by taller capitalists? I sincerely don't know if that's good or not I'm in two minds about it. I love the idea of giving the fight our all and hate the idea of that image where we're screaming "let me at em, let me at em" for little more effect than comic relief. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 15, 2019 |
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Dec 15, 2019 18:18
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