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Antinumeric posted:Lib Dems gained 4.2% vote share. People liked what they are offering, at least more than labour. How is this a thing you can say and expect anyone to treat you with anything approaching seriousness? Labour, 10,269,076 votes. Lib Dems, 3,696,423 votes. Conclusion "People liked what the Liberal Democrats were offering more than Labour" loving hell this is some moronic attempt at twisting reality. 16th December 1968, during the Second Vatican Council the Alhambra Decree is officially revoked. This was the declaration in 1492 that said the Jews were guilty of deicide. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 16:41
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from the Datapraxis reportquote:Negative messages about Jeremy Corbyn proved overwhelmingly strong, in particular among Labour Leave and Conservative Remain voters. Regardless of the origins of these negative perceptions, and despite the party’s position strengthening through a strong campaign and massive grassroots mobilisation, this was the fatal factor in the end for Labour’s prospects in this election. While statements like “We need a new government to deliver real change” had a slight edge over “We need to re-elect the current government to get Brexit done”, more people were more worried about Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister than about a Boris Johnson majority and a hard Tory Brexit.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:42
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Dec 16, 2019 16:43
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forkboy84 posted:How is this a thing you can say and expect anyone to treat you with anything approaching seriousness? Labour, 10,269,076 votes. Lib Dems, 3,696,423 votes. Conclusion "People liked what the Liberal Democrats were offering more than Labour" Labour lost 7.8% of their vote share. Every other party gained. What do you think this means?
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Dec 16, 2019 16:43
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ronya posted:I am seeing this a fair bit over the past couple of days, and I genuinely am baffled by attempts on the left to claim John Smith Same but I don’t think bad faith. The battle lines changed maybe?
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Dec 16, 2019 16:44
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RockyB posted:In others news, remember the NHS care.data project where you had to opt out to prevent all your medical records bein collated into once place, then they shut it down, then they restarted it and forced you to opt out a second time (and often didn't bother to tell you about the opt out)? there is a massive amount of data being collected in the NHS and one of the dreams for a long time has been to turn that data into an anonymised workable data set for use by research and industry. as the Register article points out this is a very difficult, long, and expensive task. it's not a terrible idea to recoup some of those costs (plus possibly make a profit for the NHS) by selling to industry. it's not clear to me how much it will actually compromise individuals' privacy; the official line is that individuals are anonymous and that they don't provide data that will allow individuals to be identified, though I'd like to know from the data scientists if unique IDs can be calculated via triangulation
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Dec 16, 2019 16:45
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I'm trying to avoid Twitter and social media for a bit because I just can't, centrist hot takes aren't particularly funny atm Where's a good place to go in London to just decompress a bit, away from the crowds? Also, I didn't do as much as I should have leading up to this election. I need to do something now for my own sanity as much as anything else. Please advise. I'm a dumbass academic with few real skills beyond producing hot takes but I'm a pretty good writer ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 16:45
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Guavanaut posted:This is racist against horses. Thank you for making my day a little lighter, that was good.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:45
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Antinumeric posted:Lib Dems gained 4.2% vote share. People liked what they are offering, at least more than labour. This is silly. Percentages of nothing are still nothing. The LibDems got around 3.6m compared to Labour's 10.2m. People liked what Labour were offering, vastly more than the LibDems.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:47
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Antinumeric posted:Labour lost 7.8% of their vote share. Every other party gained. What do you think this means? I think it means that Labour's base was split badly on Brexit and intending to hold a second referendum was hugely unpopular. I think looking at this result as an endorsement of the party who recorded their second lowest number of MPs since the party was officially formed from the SDP & Liberals is loving dense. (poo poo, even including Liberal Party results you have to go back to 1970 for a result worse than this year) But sure, what we really want is more means testing & more privatisation. Way to read the room.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:50
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm trying to avoid Twitter and social media for a bit because I just can't, centrist hot takes aren't particularly funny atm Darth Walrus posted:This is where you sign up to get on the Labour By The Many mailing list. Spread it around.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:51
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Oh dear me posted:This is silly. Percentages of nothing are still nothing. The LibDems got around 3.6m compared to Labour's 10.2m. People liked what Labour were offering, vastly more than the LibDems. If people liked what they were offering, they would have gained vote share. They didn't. They lost vote share. -7.8%. Absolute numbers matter yes, but your momentum matters as well. Everything people are saying here is along the lines of "we did things right,but we just didn't win". No lessons learnt, no actual acceptance of how toxic Jeremy Corbyn is to the labour brand. Just, "The people aren't ready for socialism".
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Dec 16, 2019 16:54
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Antinumeric posted:If people liked what they were offering, they would have gained vote share. Ah yes, the staggering momentum that lead to the Lib Dems getting 11 MPs, 1 less than they won in 2017. Phwoar, it's like a runaway freight train, Jo can't be stopped.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:55
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Antinumeric posted:Maybe people want Brexit to be over, the analysis looks like labour leave voters gave up on labour and voted Con. Corbyn was pleasing neither remain nor leave. And those voters fled. Labour got -7.8% vote share from 2017. Lib Dems gained 4.2% but got screwed harder than ever by fptp. So you agree with me then? A huge number of people want Brexit done over almost anything else. This doesn't not form a rejection of the left, just a single overriding priority? quote:Lib Dems gained 4.2% vote share. People liked what they are offering, at least more than labour. Considering the flight of votes from Labour to LD/Con That doesn't even make sense. People liked what they are offering, yet they could only get a sliver of the vote. Sure they got screwed by FPTP but they are hardly giving anyone a close run outside their few seats. We've already established Brexit was an overriding priority for people? quote:Maybe you are putting characteristics onto him you want him to have. I've found him to be terrible in interviews, ingenuine in his Brexit approach (7/10 lmao) and following rather than leading. I literally said he was a nice man, you honestly arguing that he isn't? I never said if I thought he was a good or bad leader? quote:You lost the vote. The areas with heavy activist deployment actually did pretty well. Often forming some of our only gains. That something may not have been deployed well doesn't undermine its potential effectiveness. The overall message from campaigning is that blanketing an area just before the election doesn't change minds but it does get out the vote. This is probably one of the bigger learnings from the election and it looks like steps are being taken to rectify that already. quote:The party doesn't matter. The voters do. Would you rather take the wrong side of issues just to get elected? I'm proud we stood up for the right things. I'm sad it didn't lead to our election and want us to learn and improve but not at the cost of more controls on immigration mugs and austerity with a sad face policies. quote:10m people does not an election win. So 10m people don't deserve a voice? I don't get your point. 10m is a great base to build on going forward. If you're right its also a floor since everything about this election was abysmal right? So if 30-35% (depending on turnout) of the electorate is our floor on a terrible campaign against a super charged brexit I'm actually pretty positive. quote:Something I actually agree with you on. 
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Dec 16, 2019 16:56
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Antinumeric posted:If people liked what they were offering, they would have gained vote share. You're arguing around my post and I have literally never said those things.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:57
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Antinumeric posted:Labour lost 7.8% of their vote share. Every other party gained. What do you think this means? Get Brexit done, or don't. Can't imagine what the Lib Dems have to offer after Brexit besides being sensible whilst the country turns to sludge. T Pain posted:Also, I didn't do as much as I should have leading up to this election. I need to do something now for my own sanity as much as anything else. Please advise. I'm a dumbass academic with few real skills beyond producing hot takes but I'm a pretty good writer I think having a totally separate hobby is probably better for you in the long run, something you haven't done before. Gardening, fishing, baking, chess puzzles, whichever. Even better, share the skills you do have with those that don't have access to them. Plenty of libraries and charities are eager for activities, so if that's something you might like give that a go. justcola fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 16:58
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Labour will not turn centrist, it is impossible under the current rules and there's no real point advocating it. We are going to see the succession race have the candidates drift leftward, not rightward; one would have to look for the gaps in their promises to forecast where they will then triangulate later It is also true that Johnson's government will face problems actualizing Brexit, and that their easiest way out entails something closer to Mayxit than Johnsxit. The initiative here does lie entirely with the government though. The direction the government takes here does heavily drive the "best direction of answer" choice for the opposition, but unfortunately the leadership race will be settled first before the fog lifts; them's the breaks ronya fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 16:59
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justcola posted:Get Brexit done, or don't. Can't imagine what the Lib Dems have to offer after Brexit besides being sensible whilst the country turns to sludge. 'Rejoin the EU'. This outcome actually helps their long-term survival more than if we'd remained.
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Dec 16, 2019 16:59
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justcola posted:I think having a totally separate hobby is probably better for you in the long run, something you haven't done before. Gardening, fishing, baking, chess puzzles, whichever. No, it needs to be something political, that's the whole point. I need to feel like I'm contributing something.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:00
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm trying to avoid Twitter and social media for a bit because I just can't, centrist hot takes aren't particularly funny atm Come up to Scotland, avoid the major cities and just trek around. Go up to Perthshire and visit some distilleries Its very wet and windy up here at the moment though (you unfortunately missed the Summer which was on a thursday back in May).
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Dec 16, 2019 17:02
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CyberPingu posted:Come up to Scotland, avoid the major cities and just trek around. Go up to Perthshire and visit some distilleries I lived in Glasgow for nearly a decade lol, and I miss it more than I can possibly describe
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Dec 16, 2019 17:05
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forkboy84 posted:16th December 1968, during the Second Vatican Council the Alhambra Decree is officially revoked. This was the declaration in 1492 that said the Jews were guilty of deicide.  ThomasPaine posted:No, it needs to be something political, that's the whole point. I need to feel like I'm contributing something. 
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Dec 16, 2019 17:06
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I do wonder what the new Labour Brexit policy will be. Theres probably a need to get a strong line on it quickly to set the narrative before votes start happening. "Fighting for the best Brexit" or "A brexit that works" etc. rather than being just painted as wreckers and blockers whenever we vote against something.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:06
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ThomasPaine posted:No, it needs to be something political, that's the whole point. I need to feel like I'm contributing something. I think cataloguing what the Tories are doing, particularly any video clips that are tagged properly would be very useful come the next election. Capture all the failed promises, the gaffs, the lies. Depends how much you like spreadsheets. Alternatively, I think images are quite potent - if you like photography at all I think documenting things is both valuable and meaningful, particularly in any area that voted Tory. To be able to document empty high streets, food banks, flooding etc. is important as well as being social, creative and physical. Or just volunteer at a food bank, do the books for a local community space, look into befriending (https://www.gigbuddies.org.uk/)
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Dec 16, 2019 17:08
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Owen Smith trying to be leftier than Corbyn on Syria is a good frame for predicting the succession fight
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Dec 16, 2019 17:08
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ThomasPaine posted:I lived in Glasgow for nearly a decade lol, and I miss it more than I can possibly describe You will always be welcome back if things go to poo poo
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Dec 16, 2019 17:09
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I'd argue that the Lib Dems' vote share to seats disparity was increased by the strategy of vote splitting. There were many places where a Lib Dem standing had no chance and basically drew votes away from other parties. In some cases this gifted the seat to the Tories. Perhaps some of it was due to delusion rather than consciously trying to harm Labour, but I doubt Sam Gyimah ever thought he would win, for example. But he certainly achieved something: https://twitter.com/bbcelection/status/1205342577920237568 A very convenient result for an ex-Tory MP who decided to stand in a Labour marginal rather than defend his seat after defecting from the Conservatives.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:09
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^^^ Not that there's any requirement for me to be fair to Gyimah, but both Tory and Labour lost votes in almost equal numbers as the LDs gained. It's entirely probable that Gyimah took more votes from moderate Tories, making the result closer than it otherwise would have been. Darth Walrus posted:'Rejoin the EU'. This outcome actually helps their long-term survival more than if we'd remained. Which is why they refused to countenance working with Corbyn. For as long as we're leaving the EU, they're the party of Remain. After we leave the EU, they'll be the party of Rejoin. But if we remained in the EU and it wasn't down to them, they lose everything. Hence why Swinson made it plain that to them hard Brexit was more palatable than a left wing led Remain. Jedit fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 17:13
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ronya posted:Owen Smith trying to be leftier than Corbyn on Syria is a good frame for predicting the succession fight Wired: Jess Phillips open to C&S agreement with ISIL.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:13
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ThomasPaine posted:No, it needs to be something political, that's the whole point. I need to feel like I'm contributing something. https://volunteer.peoplesmomentum.com/
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Dec 16, 2019 17:13
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Antinumeric posted:Labour lost 7.8% of their vote share. Every other party gained. What do you think this means? ...that England is full of white nationalists who wanted to vote for a white nationalist party, and the voters who weren't white nationalists were neoliberal fubpees who thought Labour were Brexiteers? Idk man, seeing as this was the Brexit election, I'm pretty sure their lack of a nationalist platform hurt them far more than their socialist policies did.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:13
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Tesseraction posted:toys will be thrown until the pram situation improves Industrial action for me but not for thee. forkboy84 posted:How is this a thing you can say and expect anyone to treat you with anything approaching seriousness? Labour, 10,269,076 votes. Lib Dems, 3,696,423 votes. Conclusion "People liked what the Liberal Democrats were offering more than Labour" I’m not sure this was the point you intended to make: implication is LDs are 25-30% of the socialist collective. That’s a minority but it’s not a pathetically small minority. E: wow I hosed up my numbers first time, someone shouldn’t drunkpost. Beefeater1980 fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Dec 16, 2019 |
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Dec 16, 2019 17:15
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Antinumeric posted:Lib Dems gained 4.2% vote share. People liked what they are offering, at least more than labour. Considering the flight of votes from Labour to LD/Con "Actually the party with less than 4 million votes is more popular than the party with more than 10 million" is a take so stupid a take so stupid even the Lib Dems aren't pushing it.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:16
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Antinumeric by name,
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Dec 16, 2019 17:16
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Beefeater1980 posted:Industrial action for me but not for thee. That would require the Liberals not being a centre right party economically, which they are.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:17
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Beefeater1980 posted:I’m not sure this was the point you intended to make: implication is LDs are 40% of the left wing collective. That’s a minority but it’s not a pathetically small minority. also lib dems aren't left wing
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Dec 16, 2019 17:18
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Random Integer posted:"Actually the party with less than 4 million votes is more popular than the party with more than 10 million" is a take so stupid a take so stupid even the Lib Dems aren't pushing it. Give them a break, it's been a tough weekend for them. Their staffers are working on the bar charts now.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:19
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Antinumeric posted:Lib Dems gained 4.2% vote share. People liked what they are offering, at least more than labour. I can't begin to imagine how you could seriously attempt to make this argument and expect anything better than people to laugh in your face. The important question isn't - and never was - how far the radical left should compromise away what we believe to attract the grudging vote of those who presently disagree. What really matters is how to get them to join us outright.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:22
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Random Integer posted:"Actually the party with less than 4 million votes is more popular than the party with more than 10 million" is a take so stupid a take so stupid even the Lib Dems aren't pushing it. From the same minds that brought “the party with 21 MPs gets to pick who leads a unity group over the party with 244 MPs”
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Dec 16, 2019 17:22
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ronya posted:Owen Smith trying to be leftier than Corbyn on Syria is a good frame for predicting the succession fight Owen Smith is still seeking to understand the true meaning of Coffee. His travels have led him, rumour by rumour, to the sites of the Saracen markets whence came all manner of exotic spices and luxuries. He hears tell of a great land of gold across the desert, and a lost kingdom of Christians to the South. Soon he will join a trade caravan to follow whispers of the true origins of Coffee, but as soon as they leave the city they'll mug him and send him back home.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:24
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