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tin can made man posted:Comparing the left-fieldiness of the show's finale to "veidt summon squid, so good" is disingenuous or shallow, I think. The novel's entire run is overshadowed by this looming fear and anxiety of the modern world and the cultural, moral, and actual apocalypses it seemed to guarantee. Then, at the oft-referenced eleventh hour a new, audacious, somehow more terrible yet more acceptable apocalypse is revealed. The squid isn't some random shock panel, it's the integral climax to the entire tone and theme of the novel. And that's not even taking into account all the direct foreshadowing and references embedded in the narrative, itself. nothing to add but to say  post
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Dec 17, 2019 04:13
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KoRMaK posted:um a little thing called #METOO where a bunch of wolves and wolves in sheep clothing were revealed. Yes I'm agreeing with you. Hello. The idea of this show being "far left" -- which has since been covered -- is more what I took issue with.
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Dec 17, 2019 04:17
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Bushido Brown posted:https://gen.medium.com/damon-lindelof-heard-some-hard-truths-in-the-watchmen-writer-s-room-24101b6c11b7 Fair enough, then they just completely botched that aspect of the show regardless of who was writing it. Lots of good ideas on paper but ultimately handled in a weak and hollow way. Edit: Essentially I would have liked more from the show in regards to how it handled race and some of its meta comments on society (the ramifications of Dr M being black, the cops wearing masks etc). Ultimately they went for a pulpy approach to things which is fine based on the fact its a comic book sequel. What I take issue with is Lindelof's interviews where he seems to think he's genuinely saying something interesting with the show and tackling some hard subjects in a deep and meaningful way when it's the most kids gloves approach to racism I've seen in a mainstream show in a long time. You can practically hear him sniffing his own farts. Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Dec 17, 2019 |
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Dec 17, 2019 04:21
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They were building up to a mind control ending for the first 7 eps then shoved in Dr. M out of nowhere. Even the Peteypedia stuff mentioned Trieu was shipping HD TVs to the local neighbourhood that amounted to nothing. I don't really buy that they couldn't show both a mind control plot and a Dr. M takeover plot when they dedicated so much screen time to American Hero Story and Veidt's side adventures. Trieu felt very wasted
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Dec 17, 2019 04:26
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Yea the TV's not turning into anything is wat the gently caress. But, maybe it is there to add doubt about the chekovs tvs - just because its mentioned doesnt mean it will be actually used? Lindelofs tv's
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Dec 17, 2019 04:31
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2 black writers allegedly tried to get themselves fired from the show (the guy who did moonlight and someone else) after they realized that the show was going in some all lives matter vibes
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Dec 17, 2019 04:53
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Why would people try to get themselves fired instead of just quitting?
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Dec 17, 2019 04:56
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and miss out on unemployment benefits? you must never been employed in the united states
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Dec 17, 2019 04:58
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How the poo poo did they land that plane of a show. That was great
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Dec 17, 2019 05:03
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The REAL Goobusters posted:2 black writers allegedly tried to get themselves fired from the show (the guy who did moonlight and someone else) after they realized that the show was going in some all lives matter vibes Source?
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Dec 17, 2019 05:11
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All the people who were complaining that the show was a mystery box that would be a letdown that never gave satisfying answers now complaining because the ending wrapped everything up too neatly is some major 
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Dec 17, 2019 05:11
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Lube man never being addressed show of the year
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Dec 17, 2019 05:13
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It's Petey.
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Dec 17, 2019 05:22
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Lube man never being addressed show of the year Yeah, his character must have slipped through the cracks. (No regrets.)
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Dec 17, 2019 05:24
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Sleeveless posted:All the people who were complaining that the show was a mystery box that would be a letdown that never gave satisfying answers now complaining because the ending wrapped everything up too neatly is some major It didn't
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Dec 17, 2019 05:29
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To those who are saying "why didn't they use the mesmer tech to end racism??????" clearly were asleep or something when it was clearly shown that soon after the mesmer device was turned off, or even just away from the targets face, it wore off. So unless you wanted to put it on Racist Whites 24/7 that was not a solution. Also Cyclops was the Klan. They wore Klan robes, they had klan symbols, they were called the Klan. Clearly Cyclops was a Klan group that involved itself into Law Enforcement and Politics, probably had its origins with the Tulsa Genocide within the Watchmen universe, most likely those that organized it. Also I think its pretty clear Dr Manhatten being Cal for a decade changed him, made him regain his lost humanity. There was a lot of him doing what he did because that what was expected of him. He was expected to be America's hero, so he went to Vietnam and blew up people just trying to keep their county independent. He did his stuff with energy and such because again, that was what was expected of him. Only at the end does he realized that he doesn't have to do that, and when he comes back he's doing what he wants to. Also, I don't know how much you others pay to the current world, but a show having White People who are racist straight up called White Supremacists on a major TV show is pretty out there. We're in a world where doing the racism is not nearly as bad as calling out someone for doing it, because you hurt a poor white persons feelings. That you're too sensitive and poo poo. It's become normalized and even just saying no, White Supremacy is bad and should not be tolerated, either by big blue swinging dicks or regular people, you're outside of what many people feel comfortable. Could it have been more, yes, but god drat its better than most of the poo poo you see these days.
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Dec 17, 2019 05:33
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AccountSupervisor posted:Source? Word on the street. Don’t really have a source for it. One of the struggle session guys talked about it on their podcast.
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Dec 17, 2019 05:33
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out of all the super hero stuff I've seen, this was the best. it's rough having the greatest opinions, but sharing helps. you can now go back to dumping out your trashbags into the thread.
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Dec 17, 2019 05:57
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Word on the street. Don’t really have a source for it. One of the struggle session guys talked about it on their podcast. Lol https://twitter.com/leslieleeiii?lang=en Everything makes sense now
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Dec 17, 2019 05:59
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upgunned shitpost posted:out of all the super hero stuff I've seen, this was the best. it's rough having the greatest opinions, but sharing helps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXgkuM2NhYI
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Dec 17, 2019 06:01
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upgunned shitpost posted:out of all the super hero stuff I've seen, this was the best. it's rough having the greatest opinions, but sharing helps. and then poo poo got real insane, the music kicked up and it suddenly it grabs you by the shoulders shaking you and says "my dude, i initiated my masterstroke 30 years ago" and you still got half an edible left that has yet to kick in
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Dec 17, 2019 06:04
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KoRMaK posted:this show was actually about people and their interactions with each other and then inside of a bigger and broader systems echoing out from small and local to federal to cosmic and maybe even god. if you wanna read ep. 9 as commentary on people and systems, manhattan couldn't escape white supremacy, white supremacists couldn't escape the whims of a trillionaire, and a trillionaire couldn't escape the plans of an old white guy with a god complex
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Dec 17, 2019 06:20
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ElNarez posted:if you wanna read ep. 9 as commentary on people and systems, manhattan couldn't escape white supremacy, white supremacists couldn't escape the whims of a trillionaire, and a trillionaire couldn't escape the plans of an old white guy with a god complex Episode 9 featured a guy giving a white supremacist speech, only to have it revealed he was manipulated into going against his own interests by someone with more money than him promising him the world. Then he stuck by it, even when warned it would end in his doom because he was being played. It really wasn’t subtle, so people saying it didn’t make any commentary about the race stuff at the end are being willfully obtuse.
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Dec 17, 2019 06:25
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ElNarez posted:if you wanna read ep. 9 as commentary on people and systems, manhattan couldn't escape white supremacy
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Dec 17, 2019 06:30
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anybody could be manhattan, it just depends unto which you are born to
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Dec 17, 2019 06:33
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goddamn a lot of goons are still mad about lost
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Dec 17, 2019 06:39
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lol another good one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4ec3Q6zKeQ
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Dec 17, 2019 06:52
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Episode 9 featured a guy giving a white supremacist speech, only to have it revealed he was manipulated into going against his own interests by someone with more money than him promising him the world. Then he stuck by it, even when warned it would end in his doom because he was being played. This too. My general experience with series with a lot of twists and late-answered mysteries is that you get multiple kinds of people real angry with it: 1. "That made absolutely no sense and I don't care how many people give me simple explanations of how I've missed basic, upfront things about the plot and themes." 2. "That was awful lol and I'm not really gonna say why but let's see how much I can make you dumb showlovers write defending against my vague criticisms." 3. "The day I saw the pilot/trailer/pre-production announcement I got a perfect idea in my head of what the show should be. Now I'm gonna compare the real world result to my vague yet flawless head show, and prove the showrunners dropped the ball." None of this is to say there aren't always people with well-reasoned, good faith criticisms about the show, and maybe a lot of them. But most of them tend to drip in over days, weeks, even months as people have a time to think about what didn't sit right. First day reactions are all drowned out by lovely hot takes.
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Dec 17, 2019 07:01
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Seemed like a serviceable ending but I can't help but feel like they wasted a lot of interesting potential. Wade just going along with Veidt's plan feels like a poor analog for the show's quasi-Rorschach when put into the position of enabling the same type of attack that originally traumatized him. Ditto for Agent Blake deciding to help Veidt commit another "ends justify the means" attack (causing collateral damage in a five block radius) to save the world then deciding to take the opportunity to arrest him. Neither felt like great culminations of the characters' respective arcs, and didn't make use of things like the cops showing up in the shrimp blast radius as potential sympathetic victims. A finale where Veidt wants to shrimp-bomb Trieu, Wade wants to stop him to protect his cop friends (and make up for what happened to him years ago), and Blake has to affirmatively decide to stop Veidt and trust Angela to find a way to stop Trieu on the ground would be, I think, a better culmination rather than just letting Veidt take credit for saving the world a second time. Plus then Angela would actually get to do something to stop Trieu rather than just sitting by helplessly the whole time. It all contributes to the sense of a little too much of a clean and happy ending for the story, compared to the uncertain and morally grey ending of the original. Sure, Dr. Manhatten/Cal/Jon is dead, but he stopped anyone from stealing his powers and blew up a couple evil organizations into the bargain. The truth about the squid attacks can finally be revealed, corrupt governments toppled, it feels like there just isn't much left crying out for another season.
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Dec 17, 2019 07:02
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Dolash posted:It all contributes to the sense of a little too much of a clean and happy ending for the story, compared to the uncertain and morally grey ending of the original. Sure, Dr. Manhatten/Cal/Jon is dead, but he stopped anyone from stealing his powers and blew up a couple evil organizations into the bargain. The truth about the squid attacks can finally be revealed, corrupt governments toppled, it feels like there just isn't much left crying out for another season. What has been shown about Trieu that can be construed as evil? She advanced a ton of science, helped Angela out after ODing on Nostalgia, rescued her Dad from Europa, provides relatives of the Tulsa massacre with a way to DNA test and claim reparations. Maybe she's evil for doing advanced IVF treatment as a bargaining chip and listening to people's requests to Dr. Manhattan and wanting to do something about it? Instead she was unceremoniously killed with frozen shrimp rain by the Dad she rescued using tech from 1985 so the old boomer gets a win against a worthy adversary and can sit in Antarctica doing nothing
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Dec 17, 2019 07:15
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Kill All Cops posted:What has been shown about Trieu that can be construed as evil? She advanced a ton of science, helped Angela out after ODing on Nostalgia, rescued her Dad from Europa, provides relatives of the Tulsa massacre with a way to DNA test and claim reparations. Maybe she's evil for doing advanced IVF treatment as a bargaining chip and listening to people's requests to Dr. Manhattan and wanting to do something about it? Instead she was unceremoniously killed with frozen shrimp rain by the Dad she rescued using tech from 1985 so the old boomer gets a win against a worthy adversary and can sit in Antarctica doing nothing This depends I guess on how much you believe in good
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Dec 17, 2019 07:20
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Kill All Cops posted:What has been shown about Trieu that can be construed as evil? She advanced a ton of science, helped Angela out after ODing on Nostalgia, rescued her Dad from Europa, provides relatives of the Tulsa massacre with a way to DNA test and claim reparations. Maybe she's evil for doing advanced IVF treatment as a bargaining chip and listening to people's requests to Dr. Manhattan and wanting to do something about it? Instead she was unceremoniously killed with frozen shrimp rain by the Dad she rescued using tech from 1985 so the old boomer gets a win against a worthy adversary and can sit in Antarctica doing nothing Yea it's hosed up that a white man won and beat his own daughter and killed her, and manipulated her to get him a rescue off planet But she also thought she could wield the power of a god and like not be corrupted or would maintain the same motivations You ever wanted to do something and then get high and realize how much you DIDN'T want to do that thing anymore? How unmotivated you were by it, undriven you were by the exact same idea in the light of some new sensory information? Killer robot posted:This depends I guess on how much you believe in good Whole thing really makes ya think
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Dec 17, 2019 07:24
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The best part of the finale was the kid having a Bubastis plush toy 
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Dec 17, 2019 07:24
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Trieu's treatment reminds me strongly of Weyland at the end of Prometheus. It seems like Damon has a hardon for "uber-rich seemingly brilliant person is smacked down by reality in their quest for immortal Godhood."
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Dec 17, 2019 07:30
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This show was great!Arist posted:TV IV is mostly chill if you stay out of the threads ftfy Scudworth posted:The best part of the finale was the kid having a Bubastis plush toy It was there they whole time??? 
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Dec 17, 2019 07:40
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The worst thing about Trieu is that her being the smartest woman in the world entirely because of the genetic material that was used to fertilize her egg is exactly the kind of  eugenics/race science that people who are really into IQ tests and FBI crime statistics love to use to excuse systemic inequality as simply being the result of the natural order of things. Angela being a cop and masked vigilante like her grandfather was at least built up as being the result of her life experiences and environment but Trieu is just defined entirely by her sperm donor.
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Dec 17, 2019 07:42
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I think it's a testament to the perniciousness of white supremacy that the best and most intriguing OC character of the show was a white cop southerner.
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Dec 17, 2019 07:46
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I think the whole 'ironic twist' with Trieu is that she actually didn't do anything too bad to set herself up as evil but once Veidt returns we're basically supposed to go 'oh so... there's two of them', and then Veidt of course recognizes her as a danger because game recognize game and the final irony of course has our audience surrogates arresting Veidt, basically because the audience is supposed to recognize the a God Emperor Trillionaire is a bad thing, Manhattan powers or not. But then of course for the sake of a mystery box we end up with Angela participating in the miracle of transubstantiation and becoming christ, which, as I said before, felt to be a bit tonedeaf, why are we supposed to view that as a good thing? It would be interesting if it ended with Angela's dilemma on whether she should eat the egg or not because well, that's a temptation and a good question to pose to the audience, Angela in that sense is just a stand in, but instead we're getting the show kind of stating "People becoming gods is generally a bad thing, unless they're REALLY GOOD PEOPLE", which as others pointed, wasn't really ever established as far as Angela is concerned, what makes Angela a really good person? She's a sarcastic badass who didn't repent her ways a single time, why should we cheer her becoming Mrs. Dr. Manhattan all of a sudden?
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Dec 17, 2019 07:47
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Angela as Manhattan would always be experiencing the feeling of powerlessness that Hooded Justice felt while he was being lynched, or when his arrest of the racist rear end was completely tossed aside by the other officers. The fact she experienced HJ’s memories basically firsthand while also having lived a very different life of their own is an interesting facet to what would happen to someone who suddenly obtained that kind of power.
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Dec 17, 2019 07:53
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Also the contrast between Trieu and Angela is an important one there. One of them learned that Manhattan was accessible, determined how to kill him and take his powers, then spent tens of billions and orchestrated an elaborate conspiracy to make it happen. The other was told by Manhattan "Oh, I could give you my powers" and said, "Wait, how about we seal yours away instead?" then eventually after being offered them more directly took up the offer. I mean, not that I think Angela having the powers of a god is going to save the world. She's a flawed person who likes to address problems with needless violence. But then, Trieu did that too, just also making a convoluted elaborate game of it to stroke her ego. (Both telling themselves, "But they're only bad people" doesn't matter because that's how people do violence.) But there's no reason to see the ending as a moral good just because Trieu or Keene getting the power would have been worse. Just like in the original, there's no need to see Veidt as the hero just because a nuclear war would have been even worse than three million dead in New York. This wasn't a happy ending. It was just avoiding an apocalyptic ending at the cost of changing the world forever, and people having to go on with their lives.
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Dec 17, 2019 07:57
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