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orcane posted:NVIDIA Control Panel Copyright 2002-2019 btw there is actually a small custom app that does nothing but check for updates, if that's your thing https://github.com/ElPumpo/TinyNvidiaUpdateChecker Shadowplay covers my use-cases for recording nicely, but I certainly don't disagree that OBS is way more powerful and probably better if you are doing real streaming or whatever. I don't really care about telemetry, crash reports help NVIDIA and AMD narrow in on problems and are a good thing overall, it's not like NVIDIA is going to send you an email laughing at your furry porn addiction. I can understand why people get sensitive about the idea of a driver requiring a log-in but GFE is all just extra utilities and features so whatever. And yes the NVIDIA control panel looks like poo poo and lags like hell if you ever try to open the per-game settings menu, but I honestly use the control panel probably once every couple months at most, so whatever. The actual driver underneath is way better than AMD's dumpster fire (see: AMD releasing their third version of the Adrenalin driver trying to fix Navi flickering issues, that have really been ongoing since launch, broken OpenCL since launch, etc). Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 20:21
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Cygni posted:i think ive signed in once all time to GFE and no i dont care about my gaming "telemetry". i mostly close its process after it does its update check anyway. thats less invasive tracking than windows, steam, chrome, and the drat games themselves are doing. at least i can close it. I don't like gfe because most other corporations give you some sort of price break for their invasive telemetry. Like, yeah there's cheap android phones but some models come with bloat apps that you can't remove, because those app devs paid to be put there and that was factored into the price of your phone. I don't see a price break like this happening for graphics cards, so I'm content to check for manual updates and configure my own games, thanks.
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Dec 18, 2019 20:27
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The Big Bad Worf posted:I don't like gfe because most other corporations give you some sort of price break for their invasive telemetry. Like, yeah there's cheap android phones but some models come with bloat apps that you can't remove, because those app devs paid to be put there and that was factored into the price of your phone. I don't see a price break like this happening for graphics cards, so I'm content to check for manual updates and configure my own games, thanks. this is basically it. its a lose/lose for us and even with my real smart policy of zero brand loyalty theres no real competition except if i basically want one specific performance tier lol. nvidia's software suite sucks and it shouldnt be defended. its cool if a person doesnt dont have a problem with it, thats completely understandable. im not even one of those ~* telemetry nuts *~ but pissing in my mouth and then forcing me to hand over the audio recording of me choking on it really makes me wish AMD was competitive.
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Dec 18, 2019 20:38
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NVIDIA's telemetry is real good compared to AMD's, which pushes an absurd amount of data (one user reported 24GB per month). Narrowing in on problem configurations of hardware/OS/driver is tough. For the most part I'm sure the driver works on AMD/NVIDIA's machines when they ship it, but then you throw it into the real world where someone blocked windows updates and is running a build from 2017 and running a 1900X that causes hitching when the driver ends up on a different NUMA node from the game and suddenly things aren't as cut and dry. As long as it's not obtrusive, or pushing literally tens of gigabytes of data per month, telemetry is a good thing. It makes it more likely that you'll get bugfixes and performance enhancements for your particular hardware, because AMD/NVIDIA can see the driver crashing or whatever. From a business perspective, "on by default" and even "no opt out" are probably the correct choices. A small number of nerds vocally rage about it online, but the vast majority of users don't care, are already sending tons of telemetry to tons of other places,. Whether you believe it or not, the alternative here is not doing telemetry and having worse driver stability, which will lower customer satisfaction among the wider customer base and will also provoke nerds to vocally rage about it. The nerds who really really care will always be able to filter the DNS, block the connections, or whatever else. It would be great if you could not have telemetry and still have perfectly stable drivers across all hardware and all OS and all game versions all the time, but that's not realistic. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 20:47
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GFE is kinda useful for me because it has that Shadowplay thing where I can record the last 30 seconds of gameplay or look at FPS with a few button clicks. I'm sure there's probably a better program to do these things, but they're worth the dumb login for me. Everything else seems like dumb fluff but  More peeved about the "Game Ready Updates" seemingly out every week. Yeah nobody is putting a gun to my head to install them, but eh, do they really make that huge difference?
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Dec 18, 2019 21:11
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You're going to help us make our products better so we can make more money, and you're going to like it. You want something for it or for it to not be a pile of poo poo? gently caress you.
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Dec 18, 2019 21:13
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buglord posted:GFE is kinda useful for me because it has that Shadowplay thing where I can record the last 30 seconds of gameplay or look at FPS with a few button clicks. I'm sure there's probably a better program to do these things, but they're worth the dumb login for me. Everything else seems like dumb fluff but I use "windows" for last 30 seconds (Xbox game bar thing) I would also be hesitant to lose that feature myself I enjoy it Game ready updates are annoying but I would sing a different tune if it was my game. It was a benefit when they released this most recent call of duty and it did nothing besides hard lock not just every PC I tried it on but both of my xbones Re: COD I actually gave genuine consideration to trying to do a charge back on my CC because I couldn't get the thing to run on any piece of hardware I owned Parallelwoody posted:You're going to help us make our products better so we can make more money, and you're going to like it. You want something for it or for it to not be a pile of poo poo? gently caress you. P much this yeah. It works for things like Facebook because I don't pay Facebook $1k to then be intrinsic to the operation of thousands of dollars of other pieces of equipment I don't actually use FB but that's mainly bc I do not need to know people's opinions on literally anything that ppl discuss on FB Worf fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 21:19
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Parallelwoody posted:You're going to help us make our products better so we can make more money, and you're going to like it. You want something for it or for it to not be a pile of poo poo? gently caress you. You do get something for it - driver updates that fix broken games from lazy game studios.  Bear in mind, nearly all AAA games release broken and buggy and AMD/NVIDIA are providing a service to you here - they are fixing the games for you. The card works on day 1 when the drivers come out, if game developers follow the API then there is no reason for AMD/NVIDIA to get involved at all. Their hardware works fine. Driver updates exist because game developers largely don't follow the API and need fixups from the driver stack to run properly. It behooves you to make this process as smooth for the hardware companies as possible. The pile of poo poo here is the games you idiots keep pre-ordering and buying on launch day. The hardware works fine if you follow the API.
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Dec 18, 2019 21:22
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Actually they're providing a service to the publishers and devs because I am not going through another experience like COD again, and it will be Activision et al that lose out. Activision is telling me their software is compatible on x hardware , I don't then owe Nvidia for making the devs statements true retroactively. The publisher and Dev are on the hook for that. I already paid Nvidia for the hardware that Activision said would work. Alternatively Nvidia or AMD can let the devs founder and I'll grab the game on deep discount after the year 1 wrap up patch fixes it to playability, which ,you know, I do almost universally already (thanks Ubisoft and battlefield people) Worf fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 21:25
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Statutory Ape posted:Actually they're providing a service to the publishers and devs because I am not going through another experience like COD again, and it will be Activision et al that lose out. that's a reasonable perspective. Don't buy launch day, wait 6 months or whatever, and the bugs will probably be fixed. The problem is that the wider public doesn't see it that way, they see "brand X has broken/badly performing drivers in game Y". So it becomes a prisoner dilemma, if AMD's driver fixes the bugs for Activision and NVIDIA tells them to go gently caress themselves then NVIDIA has "broken drivers" in the game and people get mad and probably buy AMD next time. (the optimal solution to the prisoner's dilemma is of course that both companies tell Activision to go gently caress themselves, which is basically what low-level APIs (DX12/Vulkan/etc) are there for. But not surprisingly, game studios haven't raced to embrace a model that makes them take a bunch more responsibility for their own lovely development practices.) Effectively, if you care about playing games, you kinda have to view GPUs as partially a hardware purchase and partially a purchase of ongoing support. Providing support without crash reports is really, really hard, users suck at describing exactly what hardware/software they were using and what they were doing with it and it's much better to just look at a crash report and see what happened. (this is going to be one of the challenges for Intel to overcome, because again you're not just buying a GPU you're buying a driver and ongoing support, and people will want a reasonable belief that Intel can support their existing library of games and that intel has a sufficient commitment to the project to deliver that support in future titles and isn't going to get bored and kill the project in two years like all their other side projects.)
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Dec 18, 2019 21:45
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Thing is, Nvidia/AMD don't owe anyone anything in terms of updates at all. They could simply opt to never do anything and you'd still be paying $1000 for a GPU. Hell, they could take the same route a lot of business-class products do and charge you a running subscription fee for updates. It's great that Activision and Blizzard and some of the other big game studios can build in budgeting for end-of-year wrap up fixes, but most smaller games simply can't do that if they can't sell a lot of copies in the first month. And they're not going to do that if they're a buggy mess, which they almost universally are because hiring experienced engine and platform engineers is not cheap and building complex games is non-trivial. No one's happy that this is the world we're in, but it's the world we're in. If you want to whine about it, cool, download your drivers from NVidia's website and de-select GFE during the installation. It's literally one extra click compared to driver updates for the last decade+. Problem loving solved. For everyone else, telemetry is doing yourself a service, since even if NVidia/AMD really wanted to fix poo poo, there's no way they'd have the data depth to do so in many cases without reports from thousands of users. Posting angry missives on game forums about how "this broke rear end poo poo is loving broke" isn't useful to their engineers. I'm in the same boat as some of the other posters here, though: my biggest bitch is that it makes me re-login every so often, and that's annoying. Let me log in once and never again, like I do for all my other app-services. Also, yes, their actual control panel application is hot trash and they should be very, very ashamed of it.
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Dec 18, 2019 22:06
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Paul MaudDib posted:(the optimal solution to the prisoner's dilemma is of course that both companies tell Activision to go gently caress themselves, which is basically what low-level APIs (DX12/Vulkan/etc) are there for. But not surprisingly, game studios haven't raced to embrace a model that makes them take a bunch more responsibility for their own lovely development practices.) I know Activision was probably a random example but they have actually embraced that model, COD:MW is a DX12 only title (even on Windows 7 using the new backported runtime). Blizzard were the ones who pressured Microsoft into backporting DX12 to Windows 7 too, I think they're on board even if they haven't ditched their DX11 paths yet. repiv fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 18, 2019 |
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Dec 18, 2019 22:14
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I like GFE but I dual boot Linux and only really use Windows for situations where it’s absolutely necessary. Even then I am not a telemetry headcase, because all my life I’ve run shareware and yes occasionally pirated software that’s run through the hands of people I trust even less. I wouldn’t run GFE on a critical production computer, but for Apex Legends and browsing Reddit who gives a gently caress.
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Dec 18, 2019 22:25
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i want to go on record as saying idgaf about telemetry as a concept, i just want to reap some of the value of my telemetry i have no doubt the wifi color changing LED bulbs i have of dubious origin are recording both my voice and thoughts
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Dec 18, 2019 23:58
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I'm old enough to remember when we were up in arms about Blizzard updating Battle.net to require us to submit our PC spec telemetry to continue playing Diablo 2.
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Dec 19, 2019 00:28
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yeah, i feel like blizzards games are a good example of why telemetry is great. they seriously run on anything its very impressive
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Dec 19, 2019 00:31
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DrDork posted:Thing is, Nvidia/AMD don't owe anyone anything in terms of updates at all. Yeah sure and then games would crash constantly and perform like poo poo and fewer people would bother buying graphics cards until the market collapsed and they went out of business. They're not giving driver updates out of the kindness of their hearts.
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Dec 19, 2019 03:26
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lol that's some real bootlicking
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Dec 19, 2019 03:44
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I didn't mean to start all that.. I have no strong opinions on geforce experience, it sets settings a fuzz too high for me, and I prefer to hit a higher fps by with custom granular settings. I just didn't particularly need it so I was experimenting with an alternative. The "clean Nvidia driver" page linked this as an alternative as well https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-nvcleanstall/ More granular control over things can be nice sometimes, until it's more trouble than it's worth. And yes I have googled my issue to no avail, I'll ask in the maintainers thread this weekend, my issue just seemed weird and specific if I am in fact running the actual driver.
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Dec 19, 2019 03:53
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buglord posted:GFE is kinda useful for me because it has that Shadowplay thing where I can record the last 30 seconds of gameplay or look at FPS with a few button clicks. I'm sure there's probably a better program to do these things, but they're worth the dumb login for me. Everything else seems like dumb fluff but AMD now has a built-in overlay for FPS & use that's good and a part of the standard driver, which I'm sure I will have a better review of as soon as they fix the parts that are hosed up. Statutory Ape posted:yeah, i feel like blizzards games are a good example of why telemetry is great. they seriously run on anything its very impressive  Blizzard bans people for having cheat engine or autohotkey installed on their system. Doing invasive scans has nothing to do with making games targeted at modest specs and good artists that don't need a PC from the future to look good.Blizzard is the good telemetry, gently caress that.
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Dec 19, 2019 04:05
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Klyith posted:
Blizzard games are fully compatible with WINE, when a lot of developers would shy away from Linux because “oh no custom kernels could mean code injections be still my heart”. It’s sort of been suspected some Blizzard employees maybe use WINE themselves, WOW players who were banned for it were unbanned on appeal, etc. Hearthstone and Overwatch have endured on my PC because of their acceptance in this area. It’s just easier to boot up Overwatch than reboot into Windows for Apex or something. Meanwhile Bungie gives no fucks about making Destiny’s homegrown anti-cheat work with Proton even after moving from BattleNet to Steam, and Easy Anti-Cheat was going to ask Valve to help them work on it until they got bought by Epic who is gunning to hurt Valve as much as possible. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 04:42
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Inept posted:They're not giving driver updates out of the kindness of their hearts. No, but your options are telemetry to enable those updates to, you know, work, or......? There really isn't a second option, frankly, because "leave it up to the game devs" both means you're now sending telemetry on every game (moreso than you are already, I suppose) and you're leaving it up to the people who already demonstrated they couldn't figure it out the first time to fix it. So you're worse off than before, except maybe they're not as dumb about making you log in. DX12 does put a lot more onus on the game devs to not gently caress it up, but NVidia/AMD are still heavily involved in post-launch optimization and updates.
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Dec 19, 2019 05:49
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I am certain you are seriously overstating the degree to which telemetry is used for actually fixing games. I'm also certain that it's pretty meaningless to complain about when we're all carrying around phones that let our the manufacturer, the service provider, and the government track literally everything we do.
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Dec 19, 2019 06:28
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Statutory Ape posted:i want to go on record as saying idgaf about telemetry as a concept, i just want to reap some of the value of my telemetry Unless you don't use Nvidia's drivers you already are reaping the value of your telemetry, and if you are using a Nvidia GPU without their driver I'm seriously impressed.
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Dec 19, 2019 06:34
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Unless you don't use Nvidia's drivers you already are reaping the value of your telemetry, and if you are using a Nvidia GPU without their driver I'm seriously impressed. Read my posts next time, and also the thread
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Dec 19, 2019 07:16
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Telemetry is very good for fixing hard crashes, but everything beyond that becomes a nebulous "maybe they're collecting the right kind of data and maybe even looking at it the right way" problem. And the only way to really be sure you have the right data is to collect even more data. 
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Dec 19, 2019 07:33
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Statutory Ape posted:Read my posts next time, and also the thread Already did. Nothing you said countered my point.
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Dec 19, 2019 08:11
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i'm the third boy. Now that we're all here, get ready to find out about some seriously powerful GPUs coming up in the next nine months!
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Dec 19, 2019 08:17
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Craptacular! posted:Meanwhile Bungie gives no fucks about making Destiny’s homegrown anti-cheat work with Proton even after moving from BattleNet to Steam, and Easy Anti-Cheat was going to ask Valve to help them work on it until they got bought by Epic who is gunning to hurt Valve as much as possible. Epic's abandonment of Linux (at least as a OS backend for theie software and store) is a weird one. They're more vulnerable to Microsoft than ever before, it's in their interests to help build an alternative. Microsoft is playing nice for now but like that will ever last.
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Dec 19, 2019 08:28
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SCheeseman posted:Epic's abandonment of Linux (at least as a OS backend for theie software and store) is a weird one. They're more vulnerable to Microsoft than ever before, it's in their interests to help build an alternative. Microsoft is playing nice for now but like that will ever last. They haven’t really abandoned it exactly; they just gave a big donation to the developers of Lutris. For the uninitiated: it’s a game launcher for PC games and retro emulators that compartmentalizes configs for different games, since making Windows games run is often a crapshoot and some games will need different runtimes, .net support, etc. The problem is that Valve has been here for eight years, Valve has native games that bring in the “no Tux, no bux” crowd, and Valve throws enough weight around that they made Canonical abandon their idea to abandon 32 bit binaries (though really, it was a stupid idea.) Epic is basically now that anime character that has vowed to defeat you, but Valve has a lot plot armor in this region, in addition to all the usual reasons Windows users aren’t fond of Epic. The funny thing is Linux users would probably appreciate that Epic’s system doesn’t have any inclusive DRM that ties a title to being logged in like Steam, all the DRM stuff is developers own.
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Dec 19, 2019 10:25
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If this was 2016 I'm sure Epic would be investing heavily in Linux, because that was when Sweeney was all  about MS and the Windows Store. ("Microsoft will lock out other software and their store will be the only way to buy games!")Though even Valve's commitment to Linux stuff dropped off a whole lot after it became clear that the MS Store was crap and not a threat.
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Dec 19, 2019 16:11
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Knowing gently caress all about gently caress , Windows probably couldn't legally disallow external games stores at this point and even if they did that it would be a .02 second countdown until steamOS was available for dual boot
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Dec 19, 2019 18:30
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I think the belief was that they would go the full iOS route and make it incredibly inconvenient to run software that wasn’t distributed by MS Store. Which often then leads to, “and no distributing programs that distribute other programs.” It’s questionable how useful that plan is, Apple can talk about how it pumps up iOS security but the biggest security threats to Windows are browsers, Intel faults, and leaks of the occasional backdoor a state agency was sitting on.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:35
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Craptacular! posted:leaks of the occasional backdoor Boy, that sounds like...the drizzlin' shits 
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Dec 19, 2019 23:45
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don’t use linux for games and expect it to work. thats been true for like 20 years. gaming in Linux is the realm of grey beards and people who like to do computer setups explicitly because they are hard and suck (technology dark souls)
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Dec 20, 2019 05:25
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Jesus christ just download the driver manually and then do custom and clean install without GFE every time. You can even just check it once a month after window's patch tuesday or when you install a new game that just came out.
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Dec 20, 2019 07:21
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Cygni posted:don’t use linux for games and expect it to work. thats been true for like 20 years. gaming in Linux is the realm of grey beards and people who like to do computer setups explicitly because they are hard and suck (technology dark souls) any color beard is fine
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Dec 20, 2019 08:33
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Linux is like 1% of a games sales it doesn't matter to anyone and is usually costing you more in support than it earns.
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Dec 20, 2019 09:36
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lol
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Dec 20, 2019 09:47
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Especially since “Linux” isn’t a single homogenous thing like windows. You have the Debian/Ubuntu ecosystem, the Red Hat/CentOS ecosystem, Mint, SuSE, etc. All will probably cost you at least some additional marginal support.
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Dec 20, 2019 09:47
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