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Jeez, that kinda definition might make MinisterSinister an asset for Hilary.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:19
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MinisterSinister posted:I think that stems from the supposed connections to Trump's campaign that the Russians had (therefore being associated with Russia is shorthand for being associated with Trump), but it's also because those other influencers you listed have goals in mind that don't involve, y'know, the collapse of the American world order and the suffering of our nation. Israel wants US approval and support so it can keep doing... what it's doing in Palestine, and Saudi Arabia wants US support so that Iran doesn't escalate things with them further. Both nations have self-preservation as their main goal in their political involvement in the US, and that is debatably not as bad as what Russia wants. Our own oligarchs are destroying are society before our eyes and you worry about Russia?
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Dec 19, 2019 23:20
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MinisterSinister posted:I'd argue you're a moron for discounting the possibility. It explains her more baffling stances on things like Assad that don't line up to any coherent strategy, and I simply don't buy "she's just stupid lol" as a good enough explanation. this assumes that whatever putin wants is automatically evil. take nuclear arms control for example. russia's economy isn't as strong as america's, they can't keep spend as much on nukes as the us, so russia doesn't want to expand their nuclear forces. it's actually in the common interest of ordinary americans and russians to not have a nuclear war, but opposing nuke buildup by your definition makes anyone who wants arms control an unwitting russian asset at least.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:25
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Hillary Clinton is an asset for Russia in the 2020 election.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:29
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MinisterSinister posted:I think that stems from the supposed connections to Trump's campaign that the Russians had (therefore being associated with Russia is shorthand for being associated with Trump), but it's also because those other influencers you listed have goals in mind that don't involve, y'know, the collapse of the American world order and the suffering of our nation. Israel wants US approval and support so it can keep doing... what it's doing in Palestine, and Saudi Arabia wants US support so that Iran doesn't escalate things with them further. Both nations have self-preservation as their main goal in their political involvement in the US, and that is debatably not as bad as what Russia wants. I see. It looks like this is blowing up into a pretty in-depth discussion, but since the debate is coming up pretty soon, this thread isn't going to be a good place to have an ongoing discussion tonight.  I've resurrected the Russia thread, and have responded to you there. I'd recommend that any ongoing discussion of Russian influence head over to that thread, because we're going to be TV-IVing the debate here in primarythread tonight and any other discussion will get completely drowned out by that.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:30
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GoluboiOgon posted:this assumes that whatever putin wants is automatically evil. take nuclear arms control for example. russia's economy isn't as strong as america's, they can't keep spend as much on nukes as the us, so russia doesn't want to expand their nuclear forces. it's actually in the common interest of ordinary americans and russians to not have a nuclear war, but opposing nuke buildup by your definition makes anyone who wants arms control an unwitting russian asset at least. lmao Russia has actively been rebuilding, modernizing, and testing new generations of nuclear weapons for like the last decade. Poor plucky little Russia, forced into nukes by Amerikkkan Imperialism. e: good timing on my post here, I see ^^^^ I won't bother with more.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:30
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the_steve posted:I wonder if the universal public service thing isn't just some sort of Boomer-whistle. That's basically what it is, I'm convinced. That and they are all comfortable in knowing they will never be subjected to it, and neither will their kids or grandkids (at worst they'd have to take some cushy "outreach" job in Europe or something).
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Dec 19, 2019 23:30
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Instead talking about the Russians, why don't we talk about how Bernie is a terrible antisemitic? Just kidding, but I do wonder which candidates will be the first one to bring that poo poo up at the debate tonight.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:31
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Is this the thread where we all live-bitch the debate? Or is that in a different thread? Also, pbs just showed old interviews from October including Castro and Bennett. It was great.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:37
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Ahahaha poo poo Tom Steyer's California TV ads are harping on term limits as the most important issue we face.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:37
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Luckyellow posted:Instead talking about the Russians, why don't we talk about how Bernie is a terrible antisemitic? None of them. It's too early. If someone accused the Jewish candidate of being anti-semetic, they'd look crazy and Bernie could easily shut it down. You gotta let that stuff percolate through the media. It has to be "people are saying" "there are rumors around Bernie's campaign" etc. They have to generate a buzz big enough so that the size of the buzz is in and of itself evidence that there must be something to it.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:40
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cellular metabolism is a Russian asset because human cells continuing to metabolize sugar and oxygen is in Putin's best interests of continuing to live. In order to ensure you're free of Russian influence, stop metabolizing all sugars immediately
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Dec 19, 2019 23:43
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Gripweed posted:None of them. It's too early. If someone accused the Jewish candidate of being anti-semetic, they'd look crazy and Bernie could easily shut it down. I could see a moderator bringing it up, framing it as a criticism of Omar or something, but Bernie would just pivot into talking about the tragedy of what's happening in Palestine so they'll probably not bother.
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Dec 19, 2019 23:56
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Tonight's debate will go as: Bernie (talk time 6 minutes 32 seconds): I say good things that I actually believe Everyone else (remaining talk time): 99% of what we say is bad and that 1% that is good will be clarified as actually bad when I elaborate on it at a coming town hall this weekend.
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Dec 20, 2019 00:03
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Main Paineframe posted:
Warren must be prevented from getting the dem nomination at all costs at this point; she will completely bodge the general and likely the downticket at this rate. How can someone be so bad at choosing people and stay elected? 
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Dec 20, 2019 00:08
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I could see a moderator bringing it up, framing it as a criticism of Omar or something, but Bernie would just pivot into talking about the tragedy of what's happening in Palestine so they'll probably not bother. The second biggest reason I think the antisemitism attack won't work on Bernie(the first of course being the fact that Bernie is Jewish) is that in large part it's going to be framed as an attack against the black women who support him. And that won't play well in a Democrat primary. If it moves the needle at all it might even backfire, increasing black support for Bernie
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Dec 20, 2019 00:13
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Gripweed posted:The second biggest reason I think the antisemitism attack won't work on Bernie(the first of course being the fact that Bernie is Jewish) is that in large part it's going to be framed as an attack against the black women who support him. And that won't play well in a Democrat primary. If it moves the needle at all it might even backfire, increasing black support for Bernie Here's hoping. And speaking of Bernie, someone just noticed his rise in the polls: https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1207791078222499841?s=19
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Dec 20, 2019 00:14
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Who here likes polls? https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1207756142182633484?s=20
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Dec 20, 2019 00:34
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If anyone needs a quick reference, TPC has a useful summary page up for the various tax proposals of the candidates. https://2020-presidential-candidates-tax-policy.urban.org/
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Dec 20, 2019 00:35
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One thing I do like about Nate's polling average is that all the indistinguishable losers are color-coded to match that reality Except Pete
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Dec 20, 2019 00:37
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Here's hoping. Ooh, is this the classic "Bernie is winning so now polls never mattered and should be taken with a grain of salt" swerve?
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Dec 20, 2019 00:41
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I know you arent supposed to announce VP before being nominated but I wonder if Sanders/Warren would overtake Biden
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Dec 20, 2019 00:46
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Probably.
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Dec 20, 2019 00:49
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Uncle Wemus posted:I know you arent supposed to announce VP before being nominated but I wonder if Sanders/Warren would overtake Biden It's a smart move for the primary, and a bad one for the general. Edit: Grammer. Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 00:52
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https://twitter.com/eldon_katz/status/1207576001380835328?s=19
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Dec 20, 2019 01:27
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https://twitter.com/BethLynch2020/status/1207817924595064832?s=20
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Dec 20, 2019 01:30
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I was thinking about the “Bernie is a antisemitic” thing and asked myself what the next step in the galaxy brain meme would be. I think it’s “voting for Bernie is antisemitic because if he wins it will fuel conspiracy theories that Jews run the world” and I hesitated for a moment like “naw that is too crazy” but I think somebody’s gonna try it.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:32
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She sucks so loving much and this is a good summary of why, bookmarked, thank you.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:37
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SuperKlaus posted:Ahahaha poo poo Tom Steyer's California TV ads are harping on term limits as the most important issue we face. iowan here, can confirm that this ad gets worse the more you see it. i already hate tom steyer because i hate billionaires and i hate guys who are running for seemingly no reason but oh my god his plan to start off with term limits as the first step to fixing our country is just the dumbest poo poo i've ever heard. like even if you're in favor of term limits (i personally am not because i think it would grant a lot more power to other, more permanent members of the DC scene like think tanks and especially lobbyists) if you think that setting term limits is the most important thing we need to get our democracy back on track you might be too dumb to function. i thought it couldn't get any worse but as if God himself were challenging me, Michael Bloomberg entered the race with a platform that seems to exclusively be "i am rich and do not want wealth taxes, please do not tax my wealth" and spent just as much on ads in my god forsaken state. I have very complex feelings about Iowa being the first caucus in the nation because it provides me access to candidates that i wouldn't get even living in a big city like Chicago but also the number of Steyer, Bloomberg and Buttigieg ads i've seen that make me want to throw poo poo at my TV is absurd and probably will contribute to my early demise.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:38
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Is this the thread for the debate?
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Dec 20, 2019 01:42
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mcmagic posted:Is this the thread for the debate? yup
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Dec 20, 2019 01:50
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How did loving Steyer buy his way into this one again? I love that Bernie didn't even acknowledge Mayor Butt lol
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Dec 20, 2019 01:51
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mcmagic posted:How did loving Steyer buy his way into this one again? With money stolen from his workers.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:52
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lmao at Yang outlasting Harris, Booker, and Beto
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Dec 20, 2019 01:53
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Captain_Maclaine posted:With money stolen from his workers. An unmitigated truth.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:55
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Gripweed posted:lmao at Yang outlasting Harris, Booker, and Beto Yang has a durable base of support among weirdos and young people that Ron Paul had, the establishment ghouls will latch on to the most viable "anyone but bernie" candidate the media directs them to.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:56
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Captain_Maclaine posted:With money stolen from his workers. Wait wait wait WAIT... ...are you telling me that capitalism is theft?
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Dec 20, 2019 01:56
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Gripweed posted:lmao at Yang outlasting Harris, Booker, and Beto Well, no one would ever accuse him of being Generic Democrat.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:57
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Yang has a durable base of support among weirdos and young people that Ron Paul had, the establishment ghouls will latch on to the most viable "anyone but bernie" candidate the media directs them to. I'm curious what the % swap from Yang to Bernie will be in Iowa when Yang doesn't hit 15%.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:58
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Gripweed posted:None of them. It's too early. If someone accused the Jewish candidate of being anti-semetic, they'd look crazy and Bernie could easily shut it down. I'm envisioning a stream of Yiddish insults. That would be epic.
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Dec 20, 2019 01:59
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