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Blue On Blue posted:Why are they pretending this is all good when all their expenses keep going up year over year with no direct return in product release This is basically text book sunk cost phallacy. e: 
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Dec 21, 2019 09:49
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Zushio posted:Maybe it is just me not being hardcore enough and a spoiled console brat, but shouldn't Roll Right be E and Roll Left be Q? Sounds like something that would take money to fix. Where's your wallet, Citizen?
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Dec 21, 2019 09:58
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It's because of inverted flight controls, I guess?
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Dec 21, 2019 12:00
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new filings https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-history   
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Dec 21, 2019 12:14
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IronicDongz posted:It's because of inverted flight controls, I guess? I haven't played a flight sim in ages, but I was pretty sure that only up and down were flipped. Like... my last firm memory of a flight game is TIE Fighter with a joystick and I'm pretty sure left and right still moved my aim left and right. Oh just Just Cause 2 on console is my other most recent point of reference. But I feel like attaching a Jeep to a 747 and using it as a flying wrecking ball to kill a General is not exactly fidelity. In closing, I have no idea if you were making a joke or a legitimate answer.
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Dec 21, 2019 12:32
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https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-financials-for-2018quote:Capex spend in 2018 was down on 2017 and low compared to prior years. Mainly this was due to a slowing in internal recruitment (staff numbers in 2018 are only up 12% on 2017, which is a rate of increase lower than previous years). However, the Austin office expansion and upgrades to the group IT systems saw US spend rise, contributing to the $0.9M total for the year. I can't be bothered to check for all the mistakes and such, but their figures confirm they spent $249,507,000 up to the end of 2018. They spent $56m in 2018 and at least that amount in 2019 which it is now the end of. As things stand, that's $305m+ that is gone forever with just the "game" as it currently exists to show for it. The root of cognitive dissonance and sunk-cost fallacy in one sentence.
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Dec 21, 2019 12:33
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The Rabbi T. White posted:Willow would like to wish the Store Citizer thread a Merry Christmas. this is a very good girl
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Dec 21, 2019 12:38
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colonelwest posted:You see this doesn’t bother me one bit. Chris is still building a company. The past 8 years have just been trips to furniture stores and cholorforming recent IT grads in back alleys. If Chris needs an espresso bar in each studio and a 4.5 million dollar LA mansion to build up CIG, that’s fine. We are in check and soon to be check mated.
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Dec 21, 2019 13:58
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Zzr posted:We are in check and soon to be check mated. Chris is playing 4D chess. He merely clips through the board.
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Dec 21, 2019 14:20
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C-Bangin' it 
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Now trending on the main BBC news website 🙄
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Dec 21, 2019 14:57
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reapsy posted:Now trending on the main BBC news website 🙄 Edit: And I see that No. 4 is dedicated solely to Sandi. Dwesa fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 21, 2019 |
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Dec 21, 2019 15:11
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Sabreseven posted:No truer words have ever been said Tea is just flavored water. Boil some water, pour it in a cup, spit in it : you have your tea.
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Dec 21, 2019 15:24
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Zzr posted:Tea is just flavored water. Boil some water, pour it in a cup, spit in it : you have your tea. I can't disagree tbh 
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Dec 21, 2019 15:57
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MedicineHut posted:This is basically text book sunk cost phallacy. Apex predator gotta apex.
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Dec 21, 2019 15:58
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quote:░░░░░█████░░░░░░░░░░ Tophat was missing.
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Dec 21, 2019 16:09
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Am I reading this right? Without the investment they would have been down to 6.9 million in reserves at the end of 2018? lmao Man they better hope Squadron blows the doors off this thing, cause otherwise it kinda seems like they're headed straight for more outside investment to keep this thing afloat.
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Dec 21, 2019 16:47
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It's unsustainable. I've got a feeling CR is looking for more people to buy shares, more people to palm bits of the company off to, in order to make a 'stage left' exit.
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Dec 21, 2019 16:49
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Sabreseven posted:It's unsustainable. How much are shares going for?
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Dec 21, 2019 17:02
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Yeah, their model is clearly not sustainable. They have almost no cash on hand if those numbers are correct. The financials dress it up to sound real nice but the situation is not good at all.
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Dec 21, 2019 17:08
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Beet Wagon posted:Am I reading this right? Without the investment they would have been down to 6.9 million in reserves at the end of 2018? lmao At least they’re hitting all their deadlines to ensure release within their projections for survival.
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Dec 21, 2019 17:20
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One other interesting thing is that almost a quarter (22.8% in 2018) of their 'income' is not from pledges at this point, and that number has been steadily growing. That "Income other than pledges" category includes subscriptions (which, in theory, only go to support the youtube shows and poo poo) and "Incentives, Partnerships, and Other" which could be anything from money they have gaining interest in an account somewhere to tax breaks and co-sponsorship deals. In 2018 almost 8 million of their income (16%) came from incentives et. al, so I'd imagine they're scrambling like hell to find more of these temporary deals to offset losses.
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Dec 21, 2019 17:21
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Beet Wagon posted:One other interesting thing is that almost a quarter (22.8% in 2018) of their 'income' is not from pledges at this point, and that number has been steadily growing. That "Income other than pledges" category includes subscriptions (which, in theory, only go to support the youtube shows and poo poo) and "Incentives, Partnerships, and Other" which could be anything from money they have gaining interest in an account somewhere to tax breaks and co-sponsorship deals. In 2018 almost 8 million of their income (16%) came from incentives et. al, so I'd imagine they're scrambling like hell to find more of these temporary deals to offset losses. How many more years will the UK be giving them tax credits? I mean at some point they audit, correct? I'd take one glance at the stupid loving Coffee Bar and kill their money train.
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Dec 21, 2019 18:09
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The Rabbi T. White posted:Willow would like to wish the Store Citizer thread a Merry Christmas. very nice girl
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Dec 21, 2019 18:11
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Dec 21, 2019 18:17
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Beet Wagon posted:Am I reading this right? Without the investment they would have been down to 6.9 million in reserves at the end of 2018? lmao They sort of address this. Basically with out the investment they claim they wouldn't have wasted 10 million or so of the money they spent. Don't think about the logic behind that too much I guess.
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Dec 21, 2019 18:27
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Dogeh posted:How much are shares going for? Would be nice to know tbh.
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Dec 21, 2019 18:27
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Good grief, Chris has lied to us and the backers/bankers?
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Dec 21, 2019 18:30
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I'm trying to stay awake and sleep deprived, so I made this to keep my brain occupied for a bit. The 2019 numbers are an average of the preceding 4 years (so 2015-2018), same for 2020 (2016-2019). It's not accurate in the slightest, the 2019 expenses number may be higher than my baseless estimate, but if this is the path they stick to...
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Dec 21, 2019 18:35
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Sabreseven posted:It's unsustainable. A 2nd run for more Calders cash and a bank loan in the leadup to the Crytek lawsuit.
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Dec 21, 2019 18:39
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Nah, if funding stopped right now Chris would still have enough money to finish Squadron 42 and the sales of that would give them enough money to finish Star Citizen. I know this because Chris said so.
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Dec 21, 2019 19:08
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There's going to be nothing left even if Crytek wins a judgement. Chris will just wave his hands and walk away.
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Dec 21, 2019 19:17
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Sabreseven posted:It's unsustainable. those new shares are prob for the turbulent deal. Remember the turbulent guys got some piece of CI as well
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Dec 21, 2019 19:18
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Pyramid schemes are built on greed. SC is a cult built on escapism.
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Dec 21, 2019 19:20
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stingtwo posted:A 2nd run for more Calders cash and a bank loan in the leadup to the Crytek lawsuit. Yesssss... Someone get Dean Takahashi on the horn. Time for him to once again package up this turkey for public consumption.
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Dec 21, 2019 19:31
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Uh, I don't understand UK filings but does this mean that Chris just sold another big chunk of the company?
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Dec 21, 2019 19:38
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Full Burn (of your money)
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Dec 21, 2019 19:44
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monkeytek posted:How many more years will the UK be giving them tax credits? I mean at some point they audit, correct? I'd take one glance at the stupid loving Coffee Bar and kill their money train. Honestly I have no idea. At this point I'm not really sure it matters though, because they've already committed to selling off shares to keep their position inflated. Even assuming that the entire amount of incentive 'income' they made came from tax credits (it didn't), if they lose that 8 million, it's coming out of the reserves of Calder cash, and cutting them from ~7 years of operating time to ~6. That's assuming that funding stays the same and that their net position doesn't change from -7.233 million, and assuming neither of those are going to change is crazy. The Calder investment bought them a lot of time even if their net position continues to fall, which theoretically unless they start laying people off it should. I'm not keen to try forecasting here cause there's a lot of weird variables at play, including the fact that although it looked like pledges had mostly stabilized between 2014 and 2018 (hovering around ~36 million), they apparently have already taken in like 43 million in pledges in 2019. I've been saying for a long time that at some point Star Citizen is going to hit 'saturation' or whatever you want to call it, and pledges are going to start to fall. I still believe that, but I think those trends are muddled somewhat by whales who have the purchasing power (and poor decision-making) to, for example, inflate 2019's pledges beyond what you'd expect.
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Dec 21, 2019 19:58
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Sarsapariller posted:Uh, I don't understand UK filings but does this mean that Chris just sold another big chunk of the company? It means they reported in the equity change required for this old thing: https://turbulent.ca/en/timeline/1746-Turbulent-And-Cloud-Imperium-Extend-Their-Long-Running-Partnership-Through-Mutual-Investment
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Dec 21, 2019 20:00
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Beet Wagon posted:I've been saying for a long time that at some point Star Citizen is going to hit 'saturation' or whatever you want to call it, and pledges are going to start to fall. I still believe that... I think this has been our mistake for a while now. At one point I thought 40 million per year was big money for an early access game and probably unsustainable, but it's pretty apparent by now that there are lots of paunchy white dudes out there with zero free time and no actual interest in games, but who have piles of disposable income, and this project is the feel-good "Hobby" purchase that they make to avoid thinking about not really being all that connected to the dreams of their childhood. I don't know that there's a true end to that cycle anymore. Chris very deliberately isn't offering those guys a video game. He goes out of his way instead to offer them validation- that they're wealthy donors patronizing a guy out there who gets them, who speaks for them, who demands of his studios quality and luxury and fidelity and a bunch of poo poo that they won't credit the rest of the games industry with in order to justify why no other game has managed to hold their interest in the last decade. He flatters them with quote-unquote luxury dinners and butters them up with commercials that never break the fiction of the universe- not even selling the game anymore, just the idea of things that it might contain. By never really releasing he lets them avoid thinking about the fact that maybe multiplayer games are kind of toxic and awful if you don't have a social group, and none of them have friends in their middle age who share these interests, and likely they wouldn't actually enjoy it all that much if it was actually playable. He gives them validation, they tithe a couple thousand bucks per year, and the product- a virtual sandbox that is never really complete enough to be called a "Game" but that definitely exists- lets them feel like it's not all just a big money pit. We joke about a cult but it really does have more in common with religion than with game development. For a lot of these guys, I think it occupies the same mental space and energy.
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Dec 21, 2019 20:38
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monkeytek posted:How many more years will the UK be giving them tax credits? I mean at some point they audit, correct? I'd take one glance at the stupid loving Coffee Bar and kill their money train. everybody knows the score with those schemes. temporarily attracting jobs and outside money while some rich arseholes pay less tax is about as good as it gets. the produced game is supposed to be British which sc and sq42 are obviously not which might be an issue if they ever release but i doubt it actually will be.. from the uk governments perspective the more money cr scams from outside the uk and spunks up the wall in the uk the better.
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Dec 21, 2019 20:44
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