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Just listened to podcast 23 - another great job. One thing though, the presenters mention that the offices of deposed labour MPs can be used for community purposes. I'd just say that the deposed Labour MPs will be out of a job - I think they get 4 months redundancy money or something - and won't be able to afford to keep renting those offices (and they don't all get plush highly-paid non-jobs as lobbyists or whatever afterwards). Not sure how many non-tory MPs have an actual owned office space. Page snipe: Section 377 of the penal code in 41 former British colonies criminalizes all “unnatural” sexual acts including anal sex between men and other homosexual acts. Catte tax: Pretty winter cat  Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 14:01
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The takeaway from this election has been the profound (to me anyway) realisation of what the 'post-truth' idea means. Just going through all of the poo poo from the Labour right trying to assassinate Corbyn's legacy, and the centrist twats trying to spin capitulation because nobody is willing or able to look at the statistics for themselves. Post-truth means the acceptance of a kind of McCarthyist momentum effect. You have the truth, and then you have the counter-message which is spammed everywhere by the machinery of capital. So people end up looking at both as if they're equal. I'm no statistician but the Tories seemed to loose vote share compared to 2017, even with them apparently gaining a bunch of BXP / UKIP votes. The remain bloc had a chunk torn out of it by the Lib Dems thanks to tactical voting. Attendance was pretty high, especially for a rainy day in December. Nothing about this says support for the Tories or Boris, and it doesn't show the supposed loss in support for Corbyn or the left that the press are repeating. And yet there's a large chunk of my brain that feels like the manifesto did go too far and promise too much, and has been frightened into wanting to pull to the centre. It feels right, even if it's not backed up by the data. It doesn't matter if the messages are contradictory, i.e. Corbyn populism is seen as bad, Brexit populism is seen as good, will of the people etc. It just has to 'feel' right. I suppose that's the really depressing thing - that people take the easy or 'obvious' explanation over the harder to understand / less intuitive one every time. And what's 'obvious' is whatever message the press are able to drum into the public's heads. I have had to disengage slightly with politics since the election for my own sake. I have read a lot of things about how autistic people are motivated by truth, and I cannot reconcile how everyone is buying the absolute steaming takes being published by the centre and right.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:04
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Bobby Deluxe posted:
To me this is symptomatic of a society which always pushes the 'the simplest explanation is usually the right one' message in all spheres of life. People are not encouraged to explore more complex explanations. Also, moving to a society where the average reading age is 12 where people can only take in messages delivered as 3 nice big bullet points or a half-sentence on a meme. Other ways of delivering messages need to be explored (nb. reading age <> comprehension age). And on that point - when doing video ads and posts for facebook (not just for the election) - facebook shows vids of 3 mins or more to more people but most people who do watch, do not watch for more than 12 SECONDS so quite what the point of bothering with a 3 minute vid is I do not know. Bobby Deluxe posted:
Ditto and I'm not autistic. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 14:09
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i just saw in another thread that boris johnson is the only leader who offered any measure of praise to assad and therefore he beat the curse and became PM. the lion's curse is real but it can be overcome it seems.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:11
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gh0stpinballa posted:i just saw in another thread that boris johnson is the only leader who offered any measure of praise to assad and therefore he beat the curse and became PM. the lion's curse is real but it can be overcome it seems. One of the accusations thrown at Corbyn is that because he didn't want to carpet bomb innocent Syrian civilians he was an Assad apologist / supporter. So not sure that idea works.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:13
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Labour's policies are popular on their own. The real reasons for the loss were that the Brexit second referendum stuff alienated Leave Labour voters and that the Lib Dems, as usual, acted as Tory auxiliaries. Which of course brings us to the point that the party that should actually be doing self-examination should be the Lib Dems, because all they they've ever accomplished in the last decade is to put the Tories in power. Of course the Lib Dem leadership are just yellow Tories and the base consists of liberals who will never conduct any self-examination on their own and the media is sure as hell not going to prod them into it, so gently caress knows what needs to be done there.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:15
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:One of the accusations thrown at Corbyn is that because he didn't want to carpet bomb innocent Syrian civilians he was an Assad apologist / supporter. So not sure that idea works. aha! https://skwawkbox.org/2018/04/08/on-the-right-side-of-history-again-ten-times-corbyn-opposed-assad/
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Dec 22, 2019 14:17
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Purple Prince posted:Neoliberal policy is anarchistic in the way Bevin talked about Eden (I couldn't find the exact quote) because it breaks down the social bonds necessary for a society to exist in the first place. The Tory solution to this is harsher repression of the poors, but even that only goes so far ; at some point you'll get flashpoints like the London Riots where neoliberals reap what they sow. Tory governance is self defeating after a point because a system built on fomenting distrust and hatred of others is going to erupt into lawlessness at some point. The one good thing about it is that it unleashed a tidal wave against traditional forms of social oppression and Thatcher went to her piss grave surrounded by twerking gay trans. Jaeluni Asjil posted:Pretty winter cat  Jaeluni Asjil posted:To me this is symptomatic of a society which always pushes the 'the simplest explanation is usually the right one' message in all spheres of life.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:23
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Well I have now calmed down a bit and managed two whole nights of not drinking since the election. So... Scotland, surely, will want to get the gently caress out of this whole shitshow ASAP, right? Any polling on that since The Incident? Can they do it?
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Dec 22, 2019 14:26
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Bobby Deluxe posted:And yet there's a large chunk of my brain that feels like the manifesto did go too far and promise too much, and has been frightened into wanting to pull to the centre. It feels right, even if it's not backed up by the data. Just wanna address this specifically. The thing is, if you look at what the Labour Right actually wants, it's literally a laundry list of ditching everything that's actually popular about Labour and doubling down on the thing that lost the election. If you had one of those fuckers in charge they would clearly have handed Boris an even bigger majority.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:28
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its the lefts fault that the right wing media are extremely critical of the left https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1208729983763570694
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Dec 22, 2019 14:33
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Jose posted:This is a really good investigation into the incredibly dodgy but legal tactics all the far right parties are using to track voters down and how to do disinfo stuff. Basically the big thing the tories went for and won on was that people have become so disengaged from politics due to late stage capitalism that they voted in the person saying it would be over sure explains why the BBC kept doing "yawn politics is sooooo boring you guys" pieces during the election I dunno, the internet's really a whole new battleground, there aren't really many rules since a lot of these spaces are privately owned, and the right are really going in heavy with exploiting it. We're heading for cyberpunk dystopia and the left really needs to adapt to it quickly, especially when the right gets a systemic advantage from the start ("oops we deleted all the ad data that looked bad for the corporate welfare party"  )
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Dec 22, 2019 14:34
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Guavanaut posted:That sounds more antisocial than anarchist. I don't know. Give me a 12 second video with some bullet points please 
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Dec 22, 2019 14:37
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Jose posted:its the lefts fault that the right wing media are extremely critical of the left No point fighting back, we should just roll over and lick the boot.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:42
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Jose posted:This is a really good investigation into the incredibly dodgy but legal tactics all the far right parties are using to track voters down and how to do disinfo stuff. Basically the big thing the tories went for and won on was that people have become so disengaged from politics due to late stage capitalism that they voted in the person saying it would be over This is a good read. It sums up the "they're all the same" "it's all pointless" poo poo you hear so much.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:45
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Jose posted:its the lefts fault that the right wing media are extremely critical of the left https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/25/-sp-rupert-murdoch-passive-power-hack-attack-nick-davies quote:The other man in the whispered conversation is a famously aggressive national newspaper editor, a creator of storms, a destroyer of reputations – and just one of a substantial collection of editors, former editors, political editors, political consultants, newspaper executives, TV presenters, political lobbyists, political PR specialists and political correspondents, all now pressed together by the lakeside. This is a gathering of the country’s power elite, and yet the power that is being stated here is not that of the guests.
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Dec 22, 2019 14:47
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Not So Fast posted:When even Jess thinks the attack articles are a bit much... Jess's statement roughly translates to "you're going to hear about some poo poo I've said and done soon, please ignore it"
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Dec 22, 2019 15:05
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Dabir posted:Jess's statement roughly translates to "you're going to hear about some poo poo I've said and done soon, please ignore it" No, it's a piece of aggressive fence-sitting over a far-right bullying campaign against Owen Jones.
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Dec 22, 2019 15:12
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Darth Walrus posted:No, it's a piece of aggressive fence-sitting over a far-right bullying campaign against Owen Jones. I'm not sure she's outward looking enough to have an opinion on that, but it can be both
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Dec 22, 2019 15:17
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Very Serious news from the Maldives! Noted Tory and Hostile Environment enthusiast detained at airport after (presumably) ripping a page of her passport out to wipe her rear end, is now cying about how scared she is on Twitter. https://twitter.com/samisam147/status/1208749163355234304?s=09 Needed a pick me up!
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Dec 22, 2019 15:20
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^ Anyone who likes Jacob Rees-Mogg is deeply suspect. https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/642054680944771073?lang=en Braggart fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 15:22
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Going to give to the local food back, is it just better to give them money? Seems like the most efficient thing to do but that seems to make the donation bins a bit pointless? I can go out and buy a bunch of stuff for the collection if that's better in some way I don't see?
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Dec 22, 2019 15:22
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BizarroAzrael posted:Going to give to the local food back, is it just better to give them money? Seems like the most efficient thing to do but that seems to make the donation bins a bit pointless? I can go out and buy a bunch of stuff for the collection if that's better in some way I don't see? I always hear the best thing to do is to ask them what they need and buy them that. Presumably if you just give them money they go out and buy the things they need, which takes them time and costs them money for transport.
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Dec 22, 2019 15:25
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Presumably the food bank knows what they actually need better than some rando so either give money directly or ask what they need. The donation bins have always struck me as more of a way of letting people help on impulse.
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Dec 22, 2019 15:27
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BizarroAzrael posted:Going to give to the local food back, is it just better to give them money? Seems like the most efficient thing to do but that seems to make the donation bins a bit pointless? I can go out and buy a bunch of stuff for the collection if that's better in some way I don't see? Ask them. They will know what they need, so you can fill that hole. Money means one of them has to 'waste time' to go the shop.
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Dec 22, 2019 15:28
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BizarroAzrael posted:Going to give to the local food back, is it just better to give them money? Seems like the most efficient thing to do but that seems to make the donation bins a bit pointless? I can go out and buy a bunch of stuff for the collection if that's better in some way I don't see? Don't forget things like men's toiletries - shaving gear, disposable razors, deodorants that don't smell of flowers (people seem to remember women's ones more than mens), bog roll, and other non-food items. They do tend to get a lot of cereals. Small jars of coffee, jams and things, UHT milk (remember most food banks have no means of storing perishable items and people dependent on food banks may also have limited access to fridges etc). I know our local food bank opens only on Friday mornings and they get a donation from a local grocer every Friday morning so they can put some fresh fruit and veg in the boxes, but outside of that there is no means for preserving it.
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Dec 22, 2019 15:33
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-19/boris-johnson-s-biggest-problem-what-to-do-next?srnd=premium paywalled, so pasted here In the weeks before the Dec. 12 election in the U.K., a team of consultants decided to test a question with focus groups to try to understand the public mood. In a number of marginal constituencies, places where the election would be won or lost for Boris Johnson’s Conservatives, participants were given a version of Trump’s 2016 campaign slogan: “Make Britain [What?] Again.” They were asked to fill in the blank. The answer that came back most frequently was “normal.” Make Britain normal again. Johnson’s resoundingly successful campaign was driven by just these sorts of focus groups. His slogan, “Get Brexit done,” perfectly captured the popular despair with gridlock and division. The result: The Conservatives have an 80-seat majority in Parliament, giving him a legislative freedom neither he nor his predecessor, Theresa May, enjoyed before. How he uses his power will determine the kind of Brexit—and future—Britain gets. Brexit would end 46 years of close economic integration with the European Union, so that’s not exactly normal. But like Brexit itself, normal can mean different things to different people. For some, it means simply not discussing the B-word at all—preferably ever again. For others, it may mean a return to a time when wages were growing, shopping centers were buzzing, and the country was admired around the world instead of pitied or ridiculed. “The backdrop to this election was a feeling of gloom and pessimism,” says Deborah Mattinson, co-founder of strategy consultant Britain Thinks, which ran the focus groups. Normalcy is about a sense of calm and purpose. “It’s more of a mood state than to do with any economic specifics.” That, at least, gives Johnson some room to work with. “They’ll have to be playing a kind of double game—what can they agree with the EU and what does that do to limit their room for maneuver on other agreements” In the most basic sense, delivering Brexit through Parliament is now straightforward. Johnson is expected to get his terms for the divorce—known as the Withdrawal Agreement—through in short order, which means the U.K. will leave the EU officially by Jan. 31 and enter into a transition period. The hard part, however, is what comes next in the relationship with the EU. “The whole focus in the election was on the next months and getting the Withdrawal Agreement through. That’s not a problem anymore,” says Jill Rutter, a senior research fellow at a think tank called UK in a Changing Europe. “It’s much less clear where he wants to end up long term.” Rutter lists a range of trade-related questions that will have to be sequenced and discussed, all with an eye to other agreements Johnson wants to do, particularly with the U.S. “They’ll have to be playing a kind of double game—what can they agree with the EU and what does that do to limit their room for maneuver on other agreements,” she says. “Most of these other countries will reckon that the U.K. is not worth spending this time and effort on until it sorts out its relationship with the EU.” Johnson’s room to maneuver is limited, that is, if he intends to honor some of the checks he wrote along the way to victory. To appease the hard Brexiters in his own party and win over supporters of Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party, Johnson pledged to conclude a trade deal by the end of 2020 rather than take advantage of a provision that allows him to extend the negotiating period by up to two years. Most trade agreements take years to put together; but even assuming both sides lawyer up and sit down in short order, serious negotiations are unlikely to begin before March. That leaves very little time to work out the future of a trading relationship worth more than £648 billion ($856 billion). Johnson also vowed to give the U.K. maximum freedom to pursue its own rules and regulations post-Brexit, resisting the EU’s demands for a so-called level playing field, which include aligning on areas like environmental regulations and state aid. The Union fears that a low-tax, regulation-lite Britain will rise—Singapore-like—from the ashes of Brexit to suck talent and investment away. The easy part of a trade deal, relatively speaking, is goods trade. The EU would likely be prepared to remove tariffs and quotas on goods with some commitments on level-playing-field provisions from the U.K. And Johnson may be willing to make some concessions in the name of a quick deal. But zero-tariff trade doesn’t mean zero-hassle trade. Customs and regulatory checks impose a new layer of costs. Rules-of-origin requirements—limits on what portion of a good entering from another country must have been made in that country to qualify for zero tariffs (or whatever has been agreed)—could be devastating for a number of British industries, including the auto sector, which contributes £18.6 billion to the economy and supports 168,000 workers. Raoul Ruparel, May’s former special adviser in Europe, notes in a recent paper for the Institute for Government that the data for levels of “local content” isn’t even available for many goods. In the existing manufacturing supply chains between the U.K. and the EU, goods can cross borders multiple times before they’re complete without any rules-of-origin documentation. How will negotiators even know what to ask for in different sectors without that information? Then there’s services trade, which is generally excluded from trade deals, or barely covered. The U.K. has a trade deficit with the EU in goods, but a £28 billion surplus in services, which accounted for 41% of exports to the Union in 2018. The U.K.’s coveted financial-services sector, which makes up just over half of British services exports to the EU, supports more than a million jobs. The non-binding political declaration that forms the basis of the future trade negotiations makes only a brief mention of financial services. It’s unlikely the EU, which is eager to build up its own financial centers, will concede much on the issue. Johnson has signaled his determination to stick to a quick exit, even rewriting part of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill to “legally prohibit” a delay beyond the end of next year. That will limit the scope of any agreement and means much of the time will be taken up with negotiating about negotiation—with little time to hammer out a treaty that covers more than the basics. The EU will want commitments on access to British fishing waters and level-playing-field provisions, as well as a quick deal on tariffs and quotas. It will also likely insist the U.K. accept restrictions on the use of place names and product descriptions called geographic indications (think Champagne or Parmesan cheese), which may complicate a trade deal with the U.S. The time pressure could result in no trade agreement being done at all. The trade-offs for Johnson are clear: the faster a deal with the EU, the harder the Brexit—that is, the greater the economic costs. One attempt to project the impact on the country’s gross domestic product by Rutter’s UK in a Changing Europe concludes income per capita would be 2.5% lower under the deal Johnson has before Parliament than May’s rejected proposal. A Bloomberg Economics analysis also suggests the U.K. economy would be smaller under Johnson’s Brexit deal compared with any option other than leaving in 2020 with no EU trade deal at all and trade conducted under World Trade Organization terms. The irony is these costs would bite hardest in the northern constituencies Johnson has just won over from the Labour Party. Nothing Johnson can get will be easily sellable as a great achievement, especially the more people learn about customs and regulatory checks. The political and economic costs of the new customs border along the Irish Sea under Johnson’s deal—though he repeatedly refused to acknowledge them on the campaign trail—are another potential source of backlash. (In fact, the greatest hope of a sensible deal for Johnson would be if the entire country simply tuned out the minutiae. It’s possible they will.) Still, the Brexit that comes with a speedy trade agreement, while it would impose medium-and long-term costs, would not be as chaotic as a no-deal divorce. If the only trade deal Johnson can get by 2020 is a de minimis one with few benefits, then he may decide it’s easier to bill it as an amicable separation, retain the U.K.’s complete freedom to go its own way, package the split as sovereignty-enhancing, and blame the EU for any hardships. Holding the line on Brexit may also be Johnson’s insurance policy for the next election, in 2024, a way to fend off the euroskeptics who will no doubt find something to gripe about, whatever deal is struck. To be as successful in office as he was campaigning for it—that is, to keep his northern voters on his side in the next election—Johnson will have to deliver both Brexit and tangible change in their lives. So the tougher the economic conditions that result from Brexit, the higher the price Johnson will have to pay out of state coffers to cushion the blow in his new northern heartlands. That may betray his traditional political base—composed of small-government fiscal conservatives who backed the unpopular austerity policies of the past decade. It will be hard to both dispel distrust and deliver on pledges that relied, in large part, on glossing over the costs ahead. Johnson won his historic parliamentary victory by being shrewdly tactical. For his first big decision after the election, he may instead have to figure on a strategic move: How close a trading relationship with Europe does he really want and how big an economic price is he willing to pay for the separation he promised? In other words, Johnson has to define not just Brexit, but Britain’s new normal. BOTTOM LINE - Johnson has a more than comfortable majority in Parliament, allowing him to do almost anything he wants about Brexit. The problem is: What does he do now?
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Dec 22, 2019 15:50
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PawParole posted:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-19/boris-johnson-s-biggest-problem-what-to-do-next?srnd=premium
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Dec 22, 2019 15:55
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"Normal" is generally whatever idealized version of their childhood and youth that exists in the reactionary mind.
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Dec 22, 2019 15:58
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The 2012 Olympics
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Dec 22, 2019 16:01
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RockyB posted:As I prepare to drive back oop north to spend a couple of weeks hating family, I'd like to leave you with a hateful combination of Guardian and Nonce: https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1202964501953425411
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Dec 22, 2019 16:02
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Spaffeth the hour, spaffeth the man, says prolific spaffer Toby Young.
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Dec 22, 2019 16:17
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Normal is the world when you’re 17/18. Everything after that is a change in state. Alternatively: normal is 5+ years without you noticing anything changing. That then resets your view of what’s normal.
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Dec 22, 2019 16:18
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The first time brexiteers who voted for a tory government will understand that things are not going to go well is when they have to stand in the 'non-EU' citizens queue at a Spanish airport for a few hours instead of whisking through.
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Dec 22, 2019 16:22
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:The first time brexiteers who voted for a tory government will understand that things are not going to go well is when they have to stand in the 'non-EU' citizens queue at a Spanish airport for a few hours instead of whisking through. While Irish passport havers walk past like 
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Dec 22, 2019 16:30
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Is it just me or does Boris look like he's been blasted with Homer's makeup gun from above?  2 barrels. One pot of "Face" and one pot of "Hair"
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Dec 22, 2019 16:43
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Went to see 'Dippy' at the National Museum in Cardiff today. Was great, if he comes up your way I recommend you go and check him out. Also went to the gallery and it brought home just how much stuff we've stolen from other countries.
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Dec 22, 2019 16:56
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Lmao good on ya lea https://twitter.com/emilyhewertson/status/1208574441552302086?s=19 E: also loving the comments saying 'time to hold the left responsible for their actions' in response to a right winger... being held accountable for her actions. E2: bessantj posted:Went to see 'Dippy' at the National Museum in Cardiff today. Was great, if he comes up your way I recommend you go and check him out. Also went to the gallery and it brought home just how much stuff we've stolen from other countries. I went there a couple years back and weirdly the one thing that stood out to me was a box someone had sent to the museum from I think somewhere in China in the late 19th/early 20th century, but it was addressed 'Cardiff, England'. I know this is probably just people in Asia not being intimately knowledgeable about internal British politics but I still like to think this was the one inexplicable British nationalist Chinese bloke @ing the Welsh for no reason lol ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 16:58
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OwlFancier posted:Is this another northern only thing? Those used to be served for lunch when I was in primary school back in the 70's. A load of mash, peas & gravy on the side, awesome food 
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Dec 22, 2019 17:01
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ThomasPaine posted:Lmao good on ya lea Is horny still forbidden because... https://twitter.com/emilyhewertson/status/1208578390003003393
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Dec 22, 2019 17:02
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