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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:I mean, gently caress it's day 39 (I think?). You've been on a beach for 39 days. That's 38 days after you arrive on the beach and know the final 4 challenge is going to involve making a fire with the stuff you can find on your beach. If you get to the final 4 fire making challenge and can't make fire, you should lose and go out at 4! At F5, Lauren Noura and Janet could have teamed up, voted out Tommy and practically ensured a woman winner. So I agree there's more to it (the streak of male winners) than fire making skill level. Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Dec 21, 2019 |
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Dec 21, 2019 00:32
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I'm rewatching the finale and Noura's adjective confessional is classic Noura "My game has been bold, zesty, flavorful, interesting, unique....healthy, fun, different..."
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Dec 21, 2019 01:34
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I took great offense to it.
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Dec 21, 2019 03:23
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I'm so glad this gross season is over and done with. Still, Tommy's definitely a fair enough winner. He did a good job of making himself indispensable to everybody's plans. Basically struck that Adam Klein/Nick Wilson balance of being involved without sticking out too much. He of course benefitted from being mixed in with a bunch of people who stuck out for different reasons. When the dust is settled, I think he'll be thought of as a mid-tier winner. It's always nice to see a pair of decent players like Tommy/Lauren stick it out for so long (even though Lauren loving sucks with her regular entitled emotional breakdowns over the game not going her way). Shades of Wendell/Dom and Nick/Davey. I think that's becoming a fairly bankable strategy, regardless of the fact that you're helping bring another threat far into the game, but it might usually be a risk worth taking. Just still feel so bad for Kellee. Having to be put on the spot at the end like that...nobody wants or deserves that, but she handled it admirably. Good of Jeff to coax out the totally deserved anti-CBS/Survivor stuff, but he was also slipping into some of the "non-apology apology" rhetoric with that "your truth" talk. Like no, getting groped repeatedly by a loving creep who also groped multiple others is not "her" truth. It is "the" truth. I hope to not have to hear that phrase again. Despite the ickiness of this season, I'm still looking forward to S40, though if the theme were anything less interesting, it would probably be easier to consider giving next season a miss.
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Dec 21, 2019 03:39
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Vernacular posted:It's always nice to see a pair of decent players like Tommy/Lauren stick it out for so long (even though Lauren loving sucks with her regular entitled emotional breakdowns over the game not going her way). Shades of Wendell/Dom and Nick/Davey. I think that's becoming a fairly bankable strategy, regardless of the fact that you're helping bring another threat far into the game, but it might usually be a risk worth taking. That strategy didn't work for 50% of the people you named, so I'm not sure it's that great.
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Dec 21, 2019 03:46
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There are no strategies that are 100% foolproof. Luck is always going to be a factor, and some players are just going to be threats regardless. Pairing yourself with another good player you can trust (at least for the first 75% of the game) and work through ideas with to help set both of you up for success...it helps mitigate that reality. Far preferable to being singular threats like Elaine and, say, Kelly Wentworth from second chances who are out on a limb by themselves for most of the game. Good fortune could have easily swung the other players' ways. Lauren was likely a fire-making challenge away from a win. Wendell won by one vote. Nick could've been the target instead of Davey. Denise and Malcolm, Amber and Rob, JT and Stephen, etc. Pool your skillset with another player's for as long as you can, and then either get the other player out at the last minute or rely on yourself to pitch your game over theirs at FTC. It's certainly better than being the consummate free agent, which worked for like...who, Sandra? That's a tough road where you'll need to go on an immunity run (Holloway, Fabio) or get crazy idol luck (Tony, Ben) if you want to win. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Dec 21, 2019 |
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Dec 21, 2019 04:53
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Apparently Dean was trying to sell the (unwashed) underwear he wore while on Survivor for a starting bid of $450. It only got taken down because of EBay’s policy about selling uh, used things of that nature, I guess. People are weird.
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Dec 21, 2019 09:15
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Vernacular posted:I'm so glad this gross season is over and done with. And one good thing about it: no one's talking about her big blunder of being voted out with 2 idols in her pocket. Lone Goat posted:That strategy didn't work for 50% of the people you named, so I'm not sure it's that great. or do you want to go to the end with someone you don't mind losing to? Lauren thought Janet was her biggest threat Janet thought Lauren was her biggest threat so they worked against each other, and neither made it to the F3. vs. Tommy thought he could beat Dean Dean, with his late-game successes, thought he could beat Tommy so they helped each other to the end, and one of them won. Noura (of all people!) had an interesting observation: https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/19/survivor-finale-noura-salman-interview-island-of-the-idols-season-39/ quote:I’ll say this: There’s a job out there and a guy’s like, “Okay. I have 70 percent of what this job requires and wants. I’m going to apply.” A woman sees that job and says, “I’ve got, like, 80 percent. I don’t have enough. I’m not going to apply.” They might have 85 percent, 90 percent and they’ll say, “No, I’m going to step away from it.” That is what happened. You have a Dean and Tommy who think more highly of themselves in their game than it actually was, and they can put on the theatrics that Rob and Sandra said to do that. You know, I didn’t get that amazing lesson that Dean got. And they’re blowing themselves up and talking themselves up, and a woman in her head is talking herself down. She’s saying where she missed the marks, where she’s not doing it and you don’t have to say a word. Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Dec 21, 2019 |
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Dec 21, 2019 12:16
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Binary Logic posted:And one good thing about it: no one's talking about her big blunder of being voted out with 2 idols in her pocket. It's amazing how easy that is to forget when the one other time it happened is one of the biggest moments in survivor history. A cool survivor moment tainted forever. Though with the rate they're adding idols and limited time idols meaning more out at once the double idol vote out might start happening a lot more frequently. We may one day have someone go home with three idols in their pockets.
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Dec 21, 2019 13:51
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Also another big moment was when Dean won that coinflip and got the nulifier to use on Janet. Ugh, next season when? need to forget all of this asap...
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Dec 21, 2019 14:04
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Boy what a shitshow this season was. I still loving hate all the idols. If they are good enough to win they shouldn’t need a secret advantage.
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Dec 21, 2019 16:36
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It gives me no greater joy than when production’s twists backfire. Honestly hoping Michele wins the next season.
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Dec 21, 2019 19:52
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Survivor at this point is basically Mario Party.
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Dec 21, 2019 21:57
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Spergatory posted:Survivor at this point is basically Mario Party. "Idol nullifier" is something I never want to hear again
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Dec 21, 2019 22:38
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Too bad, with fire tokens you might be able to buy an Idol Nullifier Reverserator. If you successfully play the INR the player who played the Idol Nullifier automatically goes home instead.
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Dec 21, 2019 22:56
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One of the other fire token options is to summon Bowser, in the form of one of the food ruiners. J'Tia will show up in the night and dump the rival tribes rice.
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Dec 21, 2019 22:59
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I really like the idea for s40 with the coins. I'm hoping it brings a mechanic to the game much like garnets in The Genius and isn't just wasted as a buy more immunities bullshit.
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Dec 21, 2019 23:32
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Binary Logic posted:Noura (of all people!) had an interesting observation: I don't get the feeling FTC matters all that much and that jurors already have their mind up when they go in there unless there's 2 players very close.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:23
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precision posted:"Idol nullifier" is something I never want to hear again I like the idol nullifier considering how many idols are in the game now
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Dec 22, 2019 00:26
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IcePhoenix posted:I like the idol nullifier considering how many idols are in the game now I'm with you. There were like 14 idols this season. If they need to have people constantly be finding poo poo I'd rather if at least a couple of those were changed for nullifiers.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:29
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I'd like to see a season with no immunity idols except the ones from challenges
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Dec 22, 2019 00:41
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I'm fine with the idol nullifier because like, it only works if you have enough information and good timing to use it right. Which is basically the same stuff you need for an idol to help, and we probably see more idols do nothing than actually help the player. I think Karishima was the only person this season to actually use an idol effectively even though there were like a dozen of them floating around or something. So like in this case Janet just thought her idol gave her a free pass to F4 and like, I don't have a lot of sympathy for that. It still basically came down to Janet not forming the relationships or setting up the allies necessary to get her to the end. She relied on a power to get her there and it was negated by another power and that kind of feels poetic to me. I don't really want to see a season without idols because I think there's a solid chance it would just result in a pagonging. Survivor might have gotten carried away with them over the years but they existed to give players a means to shake things up.
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Dec 22, 2019 00:54
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STAC Goat posted:I'm fine with the idol nullifier because like, it only works if you have enough information and good timing to use it right. Which is basically the same stuff you need for an idol to help, and we probably see more idols do nothing than actually help the player. I think Karishima was the only person this season to actually use an idol effectively even though there were like a dozen of them floating around or something. Would be interesting to see what would happen if there was suddenly a season with no idols or advantages and the cast not knowing.
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Dec 22, 2019 01:08
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The idol nullifier is the worst, stupidest, most ill conceived advantage in the show's entire history. It exists entirely to let the air out of what would normally be a narrative reversal, and make things easier for a majority. I hope whoever invented it has been fired and I hope this season was cited as the reason why.
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Dec 22, 2019 01:50
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But what if Get this There were an idol nullifier nullifier
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Dec 22, 2019 01:54
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The idol nullifier nullifier is called playing a second idol. At least that's what Jeff said during David vs. Goliath IIRC.
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Dec 22, 2019 01:56
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Honestly if it had been Dean that had somehow been knocked out by the nullifier (Or in previous seasons people like Ben Driebergen or Chris Underwood), I think way fewer people would be complaining.
Raxivace fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 02:09
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If they insist on having them either stop them at like last 8 or make them fuckin work for them like the last one they showed.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:18
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Raxivace posted:Honestly if it had been Dean that had somehow been knocked out by the nullifier (Or in previous seasons people like Ben Driebergen or Chris Underwood), I think way fewer people would be complaining. Yeah, the fact that it took out the one person a lot of people had invested their hopes in probably left a mark. I get that. I had already basically written off the season and wasn't that into Janet, but I've totally been there where I was all about a player/result and got real mad when an established game mechanic "screwed" them.
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Dec 22, 2019 02:31
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STAC Goat posted:For those of you who don't pay attention to Big Brother, this summer had a similarly lovely cast who spent the entire season bullying people and being misogynistic assholes and in the opinions of many racist. The guy who won was the biggest rear end in a top hat, misogynist, and would be racist who was pulled aside multiple times by production and warned about the things he was saying and doing and who had been in two different showmances and had reduced both women to tears and emotional wrecks multiple times. The whole season was ugly and people only really talked about the horrible poo poo and on finale night right before they named the winner they addressed that stuff, let some of the victims say their peace and call it out, and informed the winner that the audience thought he was a racist, misogynistic, rear end in a top hat. I'm glad to hear they've learned from their past seasons with racists and misogynists and continue to cast more of them. For BB, it seems deliberate at this point - keep casting scumbags to cause more drama and bring in ratings. When the shows premiered decades ago they had mostly the same viewership, but I think it's split a lot over the years.
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Dec 22, 2019 03:23
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The nullifier is probably the worst advantage because it requires no strategy to use because it can't backfire. There's no penalty for playing it on someone who doesn't play an idol that round, so it effectively just acts as a one-time-use voter insurance, a guarantee that whoever the majority votes for goes home. The only minor incentive to not play it is the fear of not having it later when you may need it more, but Dean got his so late that even that never really factored in. It was a once-in-a-blue-moon miracle that the nullifier was somewhat satisfying used in 37 but it was only because it was stacked with another advantage (a vote steal) when the minority alliance was exactly one vote down. 99% of the time the nullifier will be a huge bummer like this episode. Not only is it bad strategically and narratively, it's also just generally unfair. The rules on the parchment with a Hidden Immunity Idol clearly state "If played any votes cast against you will not count." I guess there's now an unspoken rule that all written rules are only rules unless overridden by other rules, which is dumb and bad game design and not very interesting. How can you strategize effectively if you don't even know the rules of the game you're playing? Or if other players who have certain advantages have more knowledge of the rules then you do? Anyway I'm excited for next season except not really because the dumb Fire Tokens are almost certainly going to be tied to dumb advantages with secret powers and every vote will come down to who drew the right Community Chest card instead of any sort of social strategy.
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Dec 22, 2019 05:18
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mancalamania posted:The immunity idol is probably the worst advantage because it requires no strategy to use because it can't backfire. There's no penalty for playing it when you get no votes that round, so it effectively just acts as a one-time-use tribal insurance, a guarantee that you don't go home. The only minor incentive to not play it is the fear of not having it later when you may need it more, but Dean got his so late that even that never really factored in. 
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Dec 22, 2019 05:27
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SweetJahasus posted:I really like the idea for s40 with the coins. I'm hoping it brings a mechanic to the game much like garnets in The Genius and isn't just wasted as a buy more immunities bullshit. FWIW survivor should absolutely be ripping off smarter SK game shows like The Genius. Having challenges that are like mini-versions of the social metagame (convincing people to one side, making alliances, etc) would be super cool
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Dec 22, 2019 05:38
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If you're in the minority and you play the idol on the wrong person you don't get your way and you or someone in your alliance goes home. If you're in the majority and you play the nullifier on the "wrong" person (someone who doesn't play an idol), you still get your way and your target goes home.
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Dec 22, 2019 05:43
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The most interesting way I could think of to use the nullified would be some kinda Natalie Anderson kinda strategy where your alliance is splitting votes because an idol, but you have a secret alliance with the backup vote so you just ensure the first target goes.
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Dec 22, 2019 06:09
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I think the coins thing could be good. I play a lot of board games and I like the ones that involve a currency because then it adds another layer of strategy. You must decide the optimal time to spend your coins by balancing against what other players are doing. The mechanic being introduced during this season in particular is cool because you'll have the best of the best playing and they'll figure out the smartest way to use them. Plus, a new mechanic could disrupt all the pre-season alliances and planning that are no doubt involved
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Dec 22, 2019 15:43
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I like to imagine that the coins came about because Jeff and Sia binge-watched all four seasons of the Genius together last winter break.
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Dec 22, 2019 15:57
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I like the idea of currency; it seems like a good replacement for the auction
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Dec 22, 2019 16:51
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What happened to the auction anyway
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Dec 22, 2019 18:07
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Hidden immunity idols are now a) non-transferable, and b) cannot be played on yourself.
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Dec 22, 2019 18:20
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