|
Meanwhile ZAU will clear you from somewhere over indiana to the start of your arrival into socal.
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 01:05 |
|
|
Sagebrush posted:Is there a high level summary for those of us who don't want to read 3000 pages? The Operations Group Chairman's Factual Report is a good start. That FO was a hot mess to put it extremely lightly.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 20:08
|
|
|
The TL:DR seems to be that the FO failed initial training at CommutAir, didn't finish training at Air Winsconsin (and didn't report any of that on his application), spent a year at a charter company, six months with TSA, then went to Mesa, failed the upgrade there, and then went to Atlas. He failed both his initial ATP oral and flight, had some issues with training at Atlas, and failed the 767 type ride there, and Atlas admitted they wouldn't have hired him if they'd known about the CommutAir and Air Wisconsin issues.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 20:41
|
|
|
The FO inadvertently pressed TOGA. Airplane was light, so when they accelerated and pitched up he got a *perceived* 80° of nose up pitch. He immediately panicked thinking he was in a stall and was emotionally reduced to literally praying and pushing the control column forward as hard as he could. Remember that PPL student who was absolutely terrified of stall training and would try to kill you with his reactions? Well, he made it to the airlines.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 20:44
|
|
|
Isn’t his family suing Atlas? Doesn’t seem like they would have a leg to stand on if he lied about his training record.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 20:45
|
|
|
Two Kings posted:Isn’t his family suing Atlas? Doesn’t seem like they would have a leg to stand on if he lied about his training record. I feel bad for them because its unlikely they knew any of this until today. The way it usually works is that as far as they understood things, he was just a successful pilot and a pride to his family and community. This is gonna hit them like a pile of rocks.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 20:51
|
|
|
Animal posted:The FO inadvertently pressed TOGA. Airplane was light, so when they accelerated and pitched up he got a *perceived* 80° of nose up pitch. He immediately panicked thinking he was in a stall and was emotionally reduced to literally praying and pushing the control column forward as hard as he could. If we ever manage to fly together I won't do this to you fwiw. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 20:55
|
|
|
JESUS TAKE THE YOKE
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 20:55
|
|
|
Animal posted:JESUS TAKE THE YOKE Seems kinda racist to not just say “your airplane” when Jesús is your FO.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 21:01
|
|
|
Ok this is getting way too dark!
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 21:02
|
|
|
Animal posted:JESUS TAKE THE YOKE Better to just take care of it during preflight: http://imgur.com/a/WTFevjN KodiakRS fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Dec 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 21:35
|
|
|
Is there a good accelerated program for instrument rating offered in a structured path without a lot of other overhead? I was interested in the Redbird flight center kind of approach with a lot of enhanced sim time, but they are out of business of course. Located in the SF Bay but willing to travel since training would be stupid expensive here due to instructor cost being sky high.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 22:12
|
|
|
I always sort of wonder what happens with the "I can't wait to fly big jets! When will I be ready for my checkride, three flights???" Dunning-Kruger crew. Apparently some of them get to fly the big jets after all.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 22:48
|
|
|
Dalrain posted:Is there a good accelerated program for instrument rating offered in a structured path without a lot of other overhead? I was interested in the Redbird flight center kind of approach with a lot of enhanced sim time, but they are out of business of course. I used to work for a school that did an accelerated IFR program (either a 10 or 5 day, depending on whether you had the long XC and how much prior training was done) out of KTUS http://www.2-eagle.com/ There's been pretty much a complete changeover in staff since I left, but when I was there, it was a pretty good program.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 22:58
|
|
|
I've flown with and heard of several pilots who I could see acting the same way as that FO if they were ever faced with a real emergency.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 23:15
|
|
|
Looking through the FDR and CVR reports, it appears that the captain didn't realize that the FO was commanding nose-down until fairly late in the accident sequence (if at all), and the CVR transcript reads a lot like EgyptAir 990 or Air France 447, where you had pilots giving opposing pitch inputs, but not realizing they were doing so.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2019 23:35
|
|
|
azflyboy posted:Looking through the FDR and CVR reports, it appears that the captain didn't realize that the FO was commanding nose-down until fairly late in the accident sequence (if at all), and the CVR transcript reads a lot like EgyptAir 990 or Air France 447, where you had pilots giving opposing pitch inputs, but not realizing they were doing so. The CA couldn’t save it. This happened very quickly. Within seconds of the “Jesus take the yoke” moment they were unrecoverable. The CA did pull back but the control columns decoupled because the FO was pushing so hard in his prayer trance. The only way the CA could have possibly saved it is, I dunno, if they had crash-axed the FO in the head right away. edit: grammer Animal fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Dec 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 00:40
|
|
|
Dalrain posted:Is there a good accelerated program for instrument rating offered in a structured path without a lot of other overhead? I was interested in the Redbird flight center kind of approach with a lot of enhanced sim time, but they are out of business of course. I broke you  I know some CFIs at my club at MYV that may be interested, we have a sim as well. e: and a warrior for that matter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 01:23
|
|
|
From the Atlas training records this guy was an accident waiting to happen, the examiner did not mince words:quote:16. Non-precision approach. Incorrect procedures. Unstable approach.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 01:52
|
|
|
The 767 has to be the easiest drat plane I've ever done steep turns in too, how do you gently caress that up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 01:59
|
|
|
Dalrain posted:Is there a good accelerated program for instrument rating offered in a structured path without a lot of other overhead? I was interested in the Redbird flight center kind of approach with a lot of enhanced sim time, but they are out of business of course. Wrong side of the country, but ifr6.com is one with a Redbird. No idea if they’re any good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 02:20
|
|
|
redbirds loving suck. garbage simulators E: if you accidentally touch the yoke on our red bird while it’s calibrating, the software for the yoke crashes with no annunciation. You find out about it when you try to rotate on takeoff. a patagonian cavy fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Dec 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 02:23
|
|
|
So why the gently caress did atlas keep flying them if they trained him and knew he was garbage? Is there anyway for captains to say “hey, the new guy I flew with is a real piece of poo poo?”
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 03:11
|
|
|
If you wanna leave a paper trail you can report them to your Union’s pro-standards committee which can try to intervene if they see a pattern. But as long as he’s passing his recurrent training events to practical standards there is little to be done. It seems like he just kept squeaking by. I assure you though, that guys like him exist in every airline no matter how prestigious.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 03:35
|
|
|
a patagonian cavy posted:redbirds loving suck. garbage simulators This person here, they are right as gently caress as should be listened to. Garbage, garbage simulators... I let my students use the autopilot all the time in our redbird, because they're basically only good for learning and practicing procedures. If you don't need to actually log time, just practice on X-Plane or something instead. EDIT: I've noticed sometimes the yoke will do the thing you mentioned, but I never connected it with touching the yoke as the sim starts. Our "solution" is to press all the buttons on the yoke before you start the takeoff roll, and then it magically works. But maybe we have a different lovely, stupid bug in our sim.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 03:41
|
|
|
e.pilot posted:The 767 has to be the easiest drat plane I've ever done steep turns in too, how do you gently caress that up. Do you get to train that stuff IRL or just in the sims?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 03:42
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Garbage, garbage simulators... This is every simulator ever. Even the big full-motion multi million dollar simulators that are certified to take full ATP check rides in suck at simulating hand flying.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 04:28
|
|
|
My company just got a Gleim subscription and, having not seen any of the questions in almost a decade but deciding to go through the question bank provided in the demo for grins, I managed a 73 on the instrument section. Somebody's about to go get his IGI. PT6A posted:This person here, they are right as gently caress as should be listened to. Our Redbird doesn't seem to have any issues other than the fact the autopilot is a pain in the rear end to use and does this weird thing where, if you ask it to intercept certain approaches, it just mindlessly does donuts in the sky, forcing you to just hand fly it anyway. Also, the periodic inspection checklist for those sims is hilariously short.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 05:37
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:Do you get to train that stuff IRL or just in the sims? In the sims but full motion level C/D sims are very good KodiakRS posted:This is every simulator ever. Even the big full-motion multi million dollar simulators that are certified to take full ATP check rides in suck at simulating hand flying. The trick is getting over the mental hurdle of not having seat of your pants G force feedback for pitch, figure that out and you're golden. Also using lots of trim and avoiding using the yoke for pitching if you can help it. e: Also seconding redbirds being dumpster fires, they're based on FSX for fucks sake e.pilot fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Dec 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 06:35
|
|
|
I'm assuming the only reason I can fly the Redbird with decent precision is because I haven't flown an actual airplane in 7 years. One of my CFI friends flew it with me and told me "You fly this thing way better than I do".
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 19:13
|
|
|
CBJSprague24 posted:I'm assuming the only reason I can fly the Redbird with decent precision is because I haven't flown an actual airplane in 7 years. One of my CFI friends flew it with me and told me "You fly this thing way better than I do". I believe that. With practice I can do better, if I didn't also fly actual planes I'm sure I could get it pretty much perfect.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 19:47
|
|
|
I sure picked a hell of a time of year to start instructing. 5 last minute cancellations or no-shows in the last 4 days. It’s like the holidays are really loving me schedule-wise or something.  I’m sure it all gets better from here right????
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 20:38
|
|
|
We had a Redbird at my CFI job back in like 2013 and the only good thing it did was spoof a fake GPS signal via Bluetooth for overlaying location info on your EFB. Showing people that was really cool. Everything else was meh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 21:25
|
|
|
Reztes posted:I sure picked a hell of a time of year to start instructing. 5 last minute cancellations or no-shows in the last 4 days. It’s like the holidays are really loving me schedule-wise or something. lol We charge $200 for a no-show and $100 for a cancellation with 48 hours without a good reason (instructor’s discretion except for medical reasons) and we still get loads. It’s infuriating. Mind you I get paid 1.5 hours for those and I can sit around, and honestly I don’t mind that unless it’s an 8am flight or some bullshit, in which case a no-show is very aggravating.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 21:39
|
|
|
Rolo posted:So my cold turned out to be a sinus infection. Hello fellow "it turned out to be an infection" guy! Mine in is my chest and less so in my sinuses, but an infection it is nonetheless. This has not been an impressive month for me.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 22:18
|
|
|
yeah my instructor the other day was complaining that the weather's been so poo poo that he'll have people come in for their appointment, welp can't fly, do 30 minutes of ground, sit around 2 hours, next person, welp can't fly, 30 minutes of ground, sit around 2 hours, repeat. seems pretty frustrating. otoh we did a night cross country to castle AFB, which is a former SAC B-52 base with a 12,000' runway with all the big lights, and most of it was VFR over the clouds (first time i've done that, let alone at night) and he commented that it was fun to do something unusual like that since most of his flights are just riding herd in the pattern so that made me feel happy. also pretty hilarious operating from a runway like that in a 152. landed and lifted off before the first taxiway with no special efforts, and even at near maximum weight i was at pattern altitude before passing the opposite numbers
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2019 22:30
|
|
|
Animal posted:Holy crap, he did a South Africa to San Juan nonstop leg in a single engine piston. Massive balls. Incredibly, that isn’t even the longest leg, 5755 nmi vs. 5833 from Hawai’i to Indonesia. Pacific Ocean: it’s big
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2019 16:08
|
|
|
Animal posted:I assure you though, that guys like him exist in every airline no matter how prestigious. They're called career widebody bunkie FO's. I'm all about delaying upgrade for QoL, but at some point it gets to be suspect.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2019 20:14
|
|
|
The Slaughter posted:Anyway, I got LAX 737 FO, so it's time to get some compression socks for sitting in that cramped thing for 8 hours a day. That was my old seat. You'll like it, lots of movement so you won't be on reserve for long, and good variety of trips. The captains are generally pretty cool and we have the best flight office in the company (although the CP got promoted recently).
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2019 20:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 01:05 |
|
|
Rekinom posted:They're called career widebody bunkie FO's. I'm all about delaying upgrade for QoL, but at some point it gets to be suspect. Don’t end up as the guy who’s biggest decision as a pilot is which crew meal to choose. While not always their own fault, wide body FO’s brains seem to turn to oatmeal in the right seat if they remain there for too long.
|
|
#
?
Dec 22, 2019 21:26
|
|