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TulliusCicero posted:It actually would have been nice to see some fun connections to the EU like Hera and hell maybe even Ahsoka showing up, but JJ Abrams seemed obsessed with ignoring anything interesting or cool from the EU (while aping the entire original trilogy, and some of the Dark Empire storyline) Except that Hera, Ahsoka and Thrawn aren't really in the EU and I don't think Hera ever was. All three of them appeared in Star Wars: Rebels - which is a Disney property. Honestly, it was the way they did Vader in Rebels that convinced me (perhaps wrongly) that with Disney, Star Wars was in good hands. Because in two episodes, Rebels washed the taste of whiny, blond, emo Anakin right out of my brain. Hell, Star Wars: Rebels even brought back Ian McDiarmid to voice Palpatine in four of its episodes. ghostinmyshell posted:Disney probably took one look at the excel sheet they were tracking all the EU royalties going out and said we can steal this poo poo instead of paying people for it. Disney owns Star Wars and everything in it - including the Expanded Universe. To whom are they paying these royalties?
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Dec 24, 2019 06:33
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Onmi posted:Like people go "Where would you go with TLJ if you ended it with Rey joining with Kylo" How 'bout this That would be too much like Zeta Gundam and therefore too interesting Now excuse us while we steal how newtype telepathy works
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Dec 24, 2019 06:34
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straight up brolic posted:What I don’t understand is why Abrams totally mailed in the direction of this one. He was supposed to set the tone for the sequels with TFA (which I thought he accomplished) but there were very few if any wipes, only one (great) wide shot, and a bohemian rhapsody amount of cuts. It didn’t feel anything like a Star Wars movie. I thought it was embarrassing.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:38
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If we’re doing fanfic now, my pitch following the cliffhanger at the end of TFA (the Jedi steps), was that the next movie time jumps 10 years. During that time, Luke and Rey have started a new Jedi order that helped kill Snoke and crush the First Order, but now they rule the galaxy as an authoritarian Jedi theocracy. Disillusioned, Poe and Finn track down the defeated, humiliated Kylo Ren, who’s turned to alcoholism. They look to build him back up into someone who could help their new budding resistance overthrow Luke, Rey, and the rest of the Jedi.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:40
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If they had to make a sequel trilogy, it should have been like the first few sequels to the book Dune. Where they've won the war but then the main characters have to grapple with the huge task of maintaining power without becoming everything they fought against. That would also have fit really well with the prequel trilogy, where we see how easily the Republic became the Empire and well-meaning people helped the process along.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:45
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Everyone posted:Except that Hera, Ahsoka and Thrawn aren't really in the EU and I don't think Hera ever was. All three of them appeared in Star Wars: Rebels - which is a Disney property. Honestly, it was the way they did Vader in Rebels that convinced me (perhaps wrongly) that with Disney, Star Wars was in good hands. Because in two episodes, Rebels washed the taste of whiny, blond, emo Anakin right out of my brain. Dave Filoni just really gets Star Wars and what makes it work. If you want more good Anakin The Clone Wars cartoon will have you covered. He’s also directing The Mandalorian so as long as he’s on that the show’s future looks pretty good.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:48
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I think you can dramatically improve the plot of this one by having the force lightning/lightsaber transaction kill all parties and then have the denouement of the movie being the characters bargaining with the loss of their “gods”. One of the interesting things they did in the movie was build frustration in Poe and Finn in Rey because she was taking advantage of her gifts to act selfishly apart from the group—while they knew that they still needed to her to get out of any kerfuffle. I wish they pulled more at that string. Having the Jedis just win and eradicate the Sith goes against a lot of the core principles of the series.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:50
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I'm sure at least one EU book or video game or something must have thought about what would actually happen to a galaxy spanning empire if you cut the head off. When Rome was pulling back they left a bunch of little rump states and independent polities as they fell apart. You're telling me that a galactic fascist empire wouldn't do the same thing or fall to warlordism as its command structure collapsed? The first order is supposed to be inspired by the Empire, but their direct ties are very obscure and nothing really ever explains how the galaxy switched back to republic rule afterwards. When the series ended at RoTJ, that didn't really matter, because the story was over and the details were less important than the victory over the Empire, but as soon as you try to follow up on that you need to think about what actually happens in situations like that, what actual politics and war look like.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:53
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I kinda feel like maybe this movie should have just accepted that it's a smaller conflict than the OT/PT and that it's okay to basically be about the far off bits of the galaxy resisting the resurgence of a fascist regime out of sight from most of the Republic.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:57
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In the stealing from samurai media tradition, the opportunity was ripe to do sengoku star wars. But this would have required any modicum of creativity at all and so wasn't happening under the JJ regime
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Dec 24, 2019 06:57
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Joining in the “how would we fix the sequels” talk by reposting my fanfic from earlier in the thread: Let Kylo have some sort of legitimate grievance against the New Republic BEFORE poo poo goes sideways. Kylo goes fascist because the system is hosed, Han is too reluctant to fully agree with him because he's too comfortable/reluctant to rebel against the Republic he helped restore. Then you have a conflict between Kylo and Han, which resonates with the wider context for the situation in the galaxy, and can dovetail with other character and thematic arcs: Finn being a child slave of the First Order is a result of the New Republic failing to give a poo poo about the people, etc. Have Han realize Kylo is right but going about things the wrong way. He comes to his son to apologize for not listening but Republic goons show up and kill him somehow. Now Kylo is torn because he has even more reason to hate the Republic but also is starting to realize his dad was right about the FO being creeps. Where does he go now? This way, you can talk about how the old generation made mistakes and the new has to carry on, without invalidating everything that happened in the OT. And it even resonates with the PT: how to prevent the cycle going from EP6 right back to EP1
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Dec 24, 2019 06:58
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TheKingofSprings posted:Dave Filoni just really gets Star Wars and what makes it work. If you want more good Anakin The Clone Wars cartoon will have you covered. The Clone Wars did a lot to show why Anakin would be considered a hero of the Republic.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:04
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Gorelab posted:I kinda feel like maybe this movie should have just accepted that it's a smaller conflict than the OT/PT and that it's okay to basically be about the far off bits of the galaxy resisting the resurgence of a fascist regime out of sight from most of the Republic. You could have the new Republic only really care about the core and sign treaties with one (or several) successor imperial states, out of practical need since the war has been long and destructive on all sides. Boom, new setting without needing to write in magic space ISIS and their army of child soldier storm troopers they must have started recruiting almost immediately after the Empire fell. Gorelab posted:It kinda feels like Johnson did a good job with the stuff he was interested in, with the Rey-Kylo stuff, but then had to put in stuff with Finn (who was basically a co-lead in TFA) and Poe who they randomly decided needed to be important that was pretty meh as well as go against his whole thing at the end. TLJ was interesting to me because it seemed like even the useless bits like Canto Bight were supposed to be pointing the audience towards the question of "if the situation is the same as the original movies what is the point of this fight?". IT makes me wonder if Johnson was annoyed that this new series of movies was fettering him to essentially retell the originals while also making a sequel. He seemed to really like the idea of both sides of the conflict choosing not to go through with the fated battle again, which I think could be compelling if done right, especially in a series that features destiny and prophecies everywhere. But it would have been better to plan that from the beginning. Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Dec 24, 2019 |
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Dec 24, 2019 07:05
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The Little Death posted:You could have the new Republic only really care about the core and sign treaties with one (or several) successor imperial states, out of practical need since the war has been long and destructive on all sides. Boom, new setting without needing to write in magic space ISIS and their army of child soldier storm troopers they must have started recruiting almost immediately after the Empire fell. It's actually more stupid in reality than that: the FO came about because the Imperial remnants were given a "Final Order" by Palpatine when he died to retreat into the unknown regions and begin the First Order. So the Empire retreated into largely frontier/ colony space and built space ISIS there, and somehow never ran across the most famous species in the Unknown Regions, the Chiss. This undeveloped area also provided them with enough resources and material to attack the New Republic apparently. All this was done so Palpatine could secretly create the "Sith Eternal" a new Sith religion Empire on Exogol? That's what I got from Wookiepedia. It also would have been cool to see the actual Battle of Jakku, but gently caress fun I guess. Someone brought this up in the thread earlier, but why use this Exogol place and not Korriban? Korriban is well known as the planet of the Ancient Sith, whereas Exogol is apparently a Sith World even more ancient and hidden we are just finding out about? ...But the whole galaxy seems to know about it? To the point where Luke was actively looking for how to get there and wrote it down in some of the Jedi texts,, despite having no reason to believe Palps was alive? Why was Luke trying to get to Exogol: to take in the wonderful ruins and lovely constant thunderstorms? TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Dec 24, 2019 |
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Dec 24, 2019 07:15
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AS much as Lost was fun it did reveal one of the things that JJ Abrams loves which is a faux sense of mythic significance, usually by invoking things with Proper Names that remain mysterious and odd, like the Dharma Initiative. Or the Red Matter in the first of the new Star Trek movies. It's not like these things have actual backstories, they just patch over holes in the plot, at least until someone else has to actually explain them. That is what Exogol is, and why the way there comes from an ancient dagger that is also linked to the destruction of the death star. It's there not because it was meant as part of a coherent story, but because JJ is trying to ape a certain feel and mood from movies like Star Wars and Indiana Jones, without actually defining anything. Why does it look like that? What purpose did it serve? Why was it hidden away? Has it always been hidden there, behind the death cloud? How do people know of it if its not on star charts? These things are all inconveniences, nothing more. The dagger in particular is very indicative. It's a macguffin trying to be a Staff of Ra moment, so it looks like a relic, some remnant of a bygone era with secrets in it, but it links to the other set piece Abrams wanted, the remains of the death star, because that looks cool. So he just marries the two and says gently caress it to making sense chronologically. If they had used Korriban, then fans could have nitpicked them on getting stuff wrong, like asking who all those cultists were since Korriban is dead. This way it's just a clean slate for the spooky halloween scenes. Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Dec 24, 2019 |
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Dec 24, 2019 07:27
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Imagine loving up so bad that the best scene in your movie is a character smacking into a post and saying “ow.” I had never heard an audience audibly groan in a movie theater until Ben said Rey was a Palpatine.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:36
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TheKingofSprings posted:Dave Filoni just really gets Star Wars and what makes it work. If you want more good Anakin The Clone Wars cartoon will have you covered. He only directed two episodes of The Mandalorian. The show is primarily a Favreau joint (as he's the showrunner), with Filoni serving as co-producer. I love Filoni, but his Mandalorian episode with the lame-rear end Han wannabe was arguably the weakest entry of the season, imo. Filoni's a great idea man, and Rebels and Clone Wars are easily what I consider to be some of the best Star Wars-ing, and Ahsoka is literally my favorite Star Wars character... but yeah, Filoni's a pretty middling live-action director—for now. I wouldn't be averse to him taking over creative/writing duties for future big budget SW movies though, because I'd love to see what he'd do in that space once he gets more experience doing live-action stuff on future Mandalorian seasons.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:44
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General Dog posted:There’s a good circumcision joke tucked away somewhere in here and a bad trans joke here
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Dec 24, 2019 07:51
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Faster. More intense. Might’ve been the wrong thing to learn from Lucas.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:07
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JonathonSpectre posted:Luke's saber is green in RotJ because the blue saber wouldn't show up against the desert background in the first part of the movie. Wait? Is this true? Because it was always my favorite
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Dec 24, 2019 08:16
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TulliusCicero posted:It's actually more stupid in reality than that: the FO came about because the Imperial remnants were given a "Final Order" by Palpatine when he died to retreat into the unknown regions and begin the First Order. Yeah hang on, didn't he already try this final order bullshit already with the robots with his face on, and nobody thought the same thing was going on this time? Should have called it the final, final order, last time, pinky swear I promise These wars among the stars are getting tiresome.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:32
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The Little Death posted:TLJ was interesting to me because it seemed like even the useless bits like Canto Bight were supposed to be pointing the audience towards the question of "if the situation is the same as the original movies what is the point of this fight?". IT makes me wonder if Johnson was annoyed that this new series of movies was fettering him to essentially retell the originals while also making a sequel. He seemed to really like the idea of both sides of the conflict choosing not to go through with the fated battle again, which I think could be compelling if done right, especially in a series that features destiny and prophecies everywhere. But it would have been better to plan that from the beginning. I’m really perplexed how RJ with his meta high brow ideas was allowed to direct an actual SW middle trilogy movie by Disney corporate tho. Maybe everyone was on vacation?
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Dec 24, 2019 08:33
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Shaocaholica posted:I’m really perplexed how RJ with his meta high brow ideas was allowed to direct an actual SW middle trilogy movie by Disney corporate tho. Maybe everyone was on vacation? I actually wonder if TFA failed to perform in like merch or tie in stuff or something, somewhere where Disney execs thought that the rehashing was the problem. They tried to course correct but overcorreted, the swung the pendulum back the other way again this time.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:37
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They let Edwards do a movie where Mads was a good guy and there were no sequel hooks or spinoffs so who knows what they’re doing.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:37
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I want the Episode X opening scrawl to start with "Chaos reigns!"
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Dec 24, 2019 08:40
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MonsieurChoc posted:I want the Episode X opening scrawl to start with "Chaos reigns!" "The dead DANCE?"
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Dec 24, 2019 08:59
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LionArcher posted:Wait? Is this true? Because it was always my favorite Yep. If you look up the original trailer, Luke's saber is still blue there - it was really a last-minute change. Presumably if they hadn't made that change, we'd all know sabers are only blue or red, and the Old Republic MMO would have one less cosmetic item to gouge players with... (But yes, green is the best lightsaber colour, and I'm really disappointed that Luke's green saber just disappeared from this trilogy...)
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Dec 24, 2019 09:08
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PJOmega posted:"The dead DANCE?" "THE DARKSIDE FUCKS!"
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Dec 24, 2019 09:08
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PJOmega posted:Honestly the bombers were really disappointing because they were made of paper. If you want to make it an homage to WWII bombers go ahead and make it a flying fortress. Have Rose complete the mission crash it back into the hanger being guided in by flight control, half the ship missing and her sister dying/dead in the pilot seat. Yeah, if you were trying to make a good movie and make your audience feel something for the characters, you could do that
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Dec 24, 2019 09:19
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Doctor Spaceman posted:It's a good visual metaphor for how she finally has a sense of her own identity. Which itself is a good metaphor for how this poo poo show of a movie is so deathly afraid to be its own thing and move on rather than recycle the same characters and plots, right up to the final line of its runtime raditts fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Dec 24, 2019 |
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Dec 24, 2019 09:20
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If we’re fan fiction writing I have an idea for sequel trilogy set a 1,000 years in the future where the Jedi are overzealous religions rulers controlling the galaxy and the heroes are a few Sith. Not the hate part, but sith giving into their passion. The chief villain would be a Jedi grandmaster who’s been alive for hundreds of years.
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Dec 24, 2019 09:36
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Ingmar terdman posted:Carrie Fisher gave chewie a medal on the mtv movie awards back in the 90s or something. drat, that is impressively esoteric starwars knowledge 
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Dec 24, 2019 09:41
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fanfic ideas are good and all but fleshing them out would be challenging. My idea for a sequel trilogy would’ve been the remnants of the empire doubling down on the fascism and the new characters being essentially revolutionary figures also Castro / Guevara
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Dec 24, 2019 09:52
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Defenistrator posted:Her parent were no one. Their names were No and One Palpatine
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Dec 24, 2019 10:08
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Another trilogy would be good. Maybe one about Rey this time.
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Dec 24, 2019 10:35
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2house2fly posted:The real bit of the bomber run that's bullshit is that Poe flies around the dreadnaught shooting the surface cannons, then Leia says "you did it, now let's go" even though... Poe hasn't actually done anything yet. The only point to destroying the cannons is to soften the target up for the bombers. If he'd destroyed the main gun, that'd be worth a "you did it" but he doesn't even try to do that. Maybe when they say "he'll never penetrate our armour" they mean the main gun is too heavily armoured for him to destroy it? She says "You did it, now lets go" because Poe successfully stalled long enough for the evacuation to complete. Poe is a classic "break the spirit of the rule" guy so he did the stalling by shooting the cannons, paving the way for his own plan to take down the dreadnought.
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Dec 24, 2019 11:28
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I would loving love a character who is a Sith but otherwise maintains a normal life, maintains healthy relationships, and doesn't gently caress up everything for everyone at all times. There has to be a few Sith in history or in general who aren't just cartoonishly evil right? The closest I can come up with is Revan or Kreia though, and Ventress after she goes through her character arc ( though I don't think she qualifies as a Sith at that point) Also they point out how utterly hypocritical the Jedi Order is of constantly doing reactionary genocide to each other.
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Dec 24, 2019 11:36
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The weirdest part of the whole dreadnought thing at the start of TLJ is how Leia apparently couldn't just order the rest of the ships to leave while telling Poe to either follow them or take on the dreadnought on his own. She had to follow through with his insubordination and then demote him after the fact because...?
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Dec 24, 2019 11:49
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The old republic didn't have any significant military power until the Clone Wars. I can believe that there'd be a lot of political resistance to raising an army to fight an (apparently fairly small) internal threat in the new republic given how that ended up last time. This should've been mentioned in TFA though.
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Dec 24, 2019 11:59
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Jerkface posted:She says "You did it, now lets go" because Poe successfully stalled long enough for the evacuation to complete. Poe is a classic "break the spirit of the rule" guy so he did the stalling by shooting the cannons, paving the way for his own plan to take down the dreadnought. But he didn't stall! Hux had already given the order to destroy the Resistance before Poe's prank call, and Poe destroying the turbolasers doesn't seem to delay the actual firing of the big cannons. I kind of wonder if there were some reshoots because Johnson realised if he has Poe stalling at the start that would be a nice bookend with Luke stalling at the end, but maybe the special effects were done already so he couldn't have Poe do anything really useful to stall, like destroying some generator so the cannon takes longer to charge
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Dec 24, 2019 13:02
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