Hauldren Collider posted:You're getting it backwards. I'm saying that for stock prices to have turned around that fast, 400 lives would have had to be irrelevant. As we have seen from the fact that the MAX is still grounded, this is obviously not the case. The point is that 400 lives were never a problem, only delayed profits.
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Dec 24, 2019 01:27
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Hauldren Collider posted:It's not an underreaction because Boeing still has a massive order book, the plane is obviously fixable, and aviation is growing very fast. They also have a bunch of planes they haven’t been able to move in over a year, a shrinking order book, incoming regulatory issues and aviation is growing how?
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Dec 24, 2019 02:22
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Let's not forget that Spirit in Kansas is basically a business built around delivering 737 fuselages, and their parking lots are already full. Let's not forget GE losing a huge chunk of their business while rumors swirl that it's the next Enron. The smart reason Boeing isn't laying off it's workers (as they claim) is that they want to be able to ramp production back up as soon as they can deliver again. Can Spirit afford to keep it's workers on? Can GE? Are they solvent? If either of these companies lay off workers, how long will it take to get back up to production speed? Phone posting from Everett campus, ama.
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Dec 24, 2019 03:47
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LRADIKAL posted:Phone posting from Everett campus, ama. Is the poop deck really what I think it is?
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Dec 24, 2019 04:31
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It's called a flight deck, sheesh.
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Dec 24, 2019 04:32
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Shooting Blanks posted:The culture just needs to revert to what it was 20 years ago (or earlier), when engineers made engineering decisions and managers made management decisions. One of the main issues is the MBAs started making engineering decisions without understanding the ramifications. People are saying this in every aviation-adjacent thread on here and as a narrative it's far too convenient and ideologically satisfying for me to straightforwardly believe it.
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Dec 24, 2019 04:42
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McNally posted:Is the poop deck really what I think it is? 
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Dec 24, 2019 04:52
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When you gotta go, you gotta go.
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Dec 24, 2019 04:54
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Poop actually comes from the French “poupe”, meaning stern.
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Dec 24, 2019 04:59
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Mortabis posted:People are saying this in every aviation-adjacent thread on here and as a narrative it's far too convenient and ideologically satisfying for me to straightforwardly believe it. I think this has to do with what I think is the fantasy that Boeing was good until they acquired McDonnell Douglas. "MD actually took over Boeing!"
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Dec 24, 2019 05:04
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LRADIKAL posted:I think this has to do with what I think is the fantasy that Boeing was good until they acquired McDonnell Douglas. "MD actually took over Boeing!" 757, 767 and 777 seem pretty good compared to post acquisition designs though?
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Dec 24, 2019 05:11
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What's wrong with the 787? The 787 has an impeccable safety record--zero fatal accidents in 10 years--and is selling quite well.
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Dec 24, 2019 05:29
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Hauldren Collider posted:What's wrong with the 787? The 787 has an impeccable safety record--zero fatal accidents in 10 years--and is selling quite well. In 2013, the first year of service for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, a widebody jet airliner, at least four aircraft suffered from electrical system problems stemming from its lithium-ion batteries. Although problems are common within the first year of a new aircraft design's life, after a number of incidents including an electrical fire aboard an All Nippon Airways 787, and a similar fire found by maintenance workers on a landed Japan Airlines 787 at Boston's Logan International Airport, the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) ordered a review into the design and manufacture of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, following five incidents in five days involving the aircraft, mostly involved with problems with the batteries and electrical systems. This was followed with a full grounding of the entire Boeing 787 fleet, the first such grounding since that of the McDonnell Douglas DC-10 in 1979. The plane has had two major battery thermal runaway events in 52,000 flight hours, which was substantially less than the 10 million flight hours predicted by Boeing, neither of which were contained in a safe manner.
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Dec 24, 2019 05:38
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And the 777’s fatalities are from a blown simple visual approach, a Russian SAM and a likely pilot suicide. The 777 and 787 both seem to be extremely safe planes once Rolls Royce engines and lithium batteries respectively were fixed.
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Dec 24, 2019 05:46
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hobbesmaster posted:And the 777’s fatalities are from a blown simple visual approach, a Russian SAM and a likely pilot suicide. This.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:00
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In my opinion, design wise, Boeing thinks it went too far on the amount of composites built into the structure. My evidence for this is looking at the relatively small amount of composites in the 777x. It's mostly in the wings, and less in every interior part and bit of hardware. The 737 is also apparently very profitable per unit compared to other planes and there is almost an order of magnitude more produced than their other lines.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:07
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LRADIKAL posted:In my opinion, design wise, Boeing thinks it went too far on the amount of composites built into the structure. My evidence for this is looking at the relatively small amount of composites in the 777x. It's mostly in the wings, and less in every interior part and bit of hardware. Every aircraft will or already is going this way. The A350. The 787. Just about every new jet of all sizes from 2016ish on are composite majority airframes.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:20
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CSeries went with Al-Li alloy for the fuselage instead.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:30
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EvilMerlin posted:Every aircraft will or already is going this way. I'm saying that they backed off on the amount of composites in the 777x, which is a newer plane still in development.
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Dec 24, 2019 06:35
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LRADIKAL posted:I'm saying that they backed off on the amount of composites in the 777x, which is a newer plane still in development. It's a lot easier to strengthen and lengthen an existing aluminum fuselage by keeping it aluminum, but if you're plowing 10 billion or 30 billion lol the 787 into a new airframe, it'll pay off to make it composite.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:00
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FrozenVent posted:Poop actually comes from the French “poupe”, meaning stern. The stern is at the rear. Where you poop.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:08
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LingcodKilla posted:The stern is at the rear. Then why do you poop in a 'head'?
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Dec 24, 2019 09:59
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That Works posted:Then why do you poop in a 'head'? It’s at the front of the ship so waves self clean it.
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Dec 24, 2019 10:15
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simplefish posted:Similarly a customer saying "we don't want to have to do extra training" doesn't mean that when it goes wrong it's all the customer's fault. What does Southwest know about building safe aircraft? That's why they don't build their own planes. It's Boeing's job - especially with their added powers - to decide if something would be safe to sell.  What we the airline supposed to do? Lie to avoid hurting Boeing’s feelings? The A320neo was looking mighty attractive to them (and is again now). Boeing lost tempo and the risks they took to stay competitive proved disastrous.
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Dec 24, 2019 11:01
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That Works posted:Then why do you poop in a 'head'?  In sailing ships, the toilet was placed in the bow somewhat above the water line with vents or slots cut near the floor level allowing normal wave action to wash out the facility. Only the captain had a private toilet near his quarters, at the stern of the ship in the quarter gallery. 
Dante80 fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Dec 24, 2019 |
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Dec 24, 2019 11:31
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Mortabis posted:People are saying this in every aviation-adjacent thread on here and as a narrative it's far too convenient and ideologically satisfying for me to straightforwardly believe it. I heard is from a senior engineer from a jet turbine manufacturer who works in the same industry and is intimately familiar with the processes that go into building and certifying a plane (or in his case, engine). He's as close to an SME as I'm going to find.
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Dec 24, 2019 13:37
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Russia’s 5th-gen Su-57 fighter jet crashes during factory trials – pilot ejects https://www.rt.com/russia/476709-russia-su-57-fighter-jet-crash/ One of Russia’s cutting-edge Su-57 fighter jets has crashed during routine factory test flights near the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft plant in the Far East. The pilot ejected safely and was picked up by a Mi-8 rescue helicopter. The aircraft involved in the incident belonged to the manufacturer and was undergoing a series of flight tests some 110 kilometers off Dzyomgi air base in Russia's Khabarovsk region. There were no casualties or major damage on the ground, the manufacturer confirmed, in a brief statement. The crashed jet's black boxes were in the process of being recovered.
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Dec 24, 2019 15:16
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Dec 24, 2019 16:24
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Dante80 posted:Russia’s 5th-gen Su-57 fighter jet crashes during factory trials – pilot ejects That's 1/12th of the entire fleet
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Dec 24, 2019 17:03
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The 777x is more aluminum-y than previous versions because there have been some advances in Al-Li alloys that allow similar weight savings, and are also much cheaper than composites. Also, Hodge makes Al-Li parts for some of their guns, since this is still TFR.
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Dec 24, 2019 17:27
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Nebakenezzer posted:That's 1/12th of the entire fleet Makes sense for prototypes, they don't have the budget for mass-producing stuff before the design is fully fixed and stabilized. Sure you could argue that it's better to get to fix a critical design flaw on 500 aircraft because you wanted to put the cart before the horses, but that's something you can only do when you spend more on military crap than the entire rest of the world put together.
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Dec 24, 2019 17:39
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hhnnggggghhhh
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Dec 24, 2019 17:52
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TK-42-1 posted:hhnnggggghhhh
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Dec 24, 2019 17:53
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stealie72 posted:The best looking plane of all time looks good in any paint.
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Dec 24, 2019 18:09
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Truly "la brique volante" of the USN.
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Dec 24, 2019 18:17
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How dangerous is an Al-Li alloy? I assume you should not go and try to weld it?
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Dec 24, 2019 19:00
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aphid_licker posted:How dangerous is an Al-Li alloy? I assume you should not go and try to weld it? Al-Li is typically welded using friction stir welding.
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Dec 24, 2019 19:05
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Just because something has lithium doesn't mean it's going to go in a great big explosion like your science teacher showed you with elemental lithium. It's only a few percentages of lithium and gets friction welded.
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Dec 24, 2019 19:08
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With friction welding is it like jacking off? Asking for a friend. (someone post a cool video)
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Dec 24, 2019 19:29
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tangy yet delightful posted:With friction welding is it like jacking off? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNbQH8XBgxQ
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Dec 24, 2019 19:40
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