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Dr Christmas posted:What roles do corsairs fill that shades don't? Lower tier, cheaper, and more armored. Early on corsairs and their 80 armor can do good work against factions without easy access to AP. It just sucks that lords who buff low-tier units tend to fall behind a bit because at some point, even with the buffs, they won't be able to compete with higher tiers.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:00
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Dr Christmas posted:What roles do corsairs fill that shades don't? They now (at least the ranged ones) Fire while moving which is nice, and in Lokhir's army, he's got a ton of buffs for them. They make a pretty good frontline like a dark elf Lothern Sea Guard, but instead of being a spear wall that has range, they counter charge and are decent anti-infantry and can mop up a lot of half-strength infantry (after you pepper them with bolts) Ravenfood posted:Lower tier, cheaper, and more armored. Early on corsairs and their 80 armor can do good work against factions without easy access to AP. This is like Aranessa having Sartosa buffs with none of the undead advantages, but she kind of gets promethean buffs as well IIRC.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:03
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Corsairs fill the roles of decent quality infantry and archers that you can get early on and almost everywhere without massive upkeep. Shades are great and all but high upkeep and very much a niche role with limited availability kinda make it a strange comparison. Like literally corsairs will carry your armies until you can afford to dabble in shades.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:10
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I never really switched to Shades. Too squishy, I dug how tanky Corsairs were.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:17
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Mordja posted:I never really switched to Shades. Too squishy, I dug how tanky Corsairs were. Shades are amazing though. They hit so much harder and at much longer range that they'll be tougher just by virtue of killing everything else first. They're a lot pricier and quite as durable individually, but units of shades can support each other in ways corsairs can't.
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Dec 24, 2019 07:31
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Ravenfood posted:Lower tier, cheaper, and more armored. Early on corsairs and their 80 armor can do good work against factions without easy access to AP. Not always true. Any buffed up ranged unit ends up doing work most of the game, solely because of volume. Buffed up crossbowmen behind a wall of buffed up shieldmen can do some work even against armored, shielded infantry. Plus the lower tiered units are always punching way above their weight because of their insanely good value. A low tier, buffed up ranged unit and a hero can mulch up a few units of Pheonix guard no problem. Especially if they have AP abilities. No tech requirement or substantial money cost, just good old fashioned positioning.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:08
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Lokhir's vortex start is actually pretty loving hard
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Dec 24, 2019 08:34
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terrorist ambulance posted:Lokhir's vortex start is actually pretty loving hard It is but those black ark changes have made it so much easier now.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:36
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Today I learned bonus vs. large and bonus vs. infantry doesn't just give weapon strength bonus, that number also gets added to the unit's melee attack fighting that type of unit! So a unit with, say, 30 melee attack and 40 weapon strength with a +10 bonus vs. large/infantry doesn't just give it 50 weapon strength (as I previously thought), it also gives it 40 melee attack. Wow! That also explains why the anti-large/infantry bonus on some units, which seem so small they may as well not have even bothered adding, exists. Being able to hit more often makes those units even more specialized against that kind of unit.
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Dec 24, 2019 08:39
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Olive Branch posted:Today I learned bonus vs. large and bonus vs. infantry doesn't just give weapon strength bonus, that number also gets added to the unit's melee attack fighting that type of unit! So a unit with, say, 30 melee attack and 40 weapon strength with a +10 bonus vs. large/infantry doesn't just give it 50 weapon strength (as I previously thought), it also gives it 40 melee attack. Wow! I think bonuses against certain types are also armor piercing
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Dec 24, 2019 08:46
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terrorist ambulance posted:I think bonuses against certain types are also armor piercing
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Dec 24, 2019 08:56
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I believe the bonus damage type is determined by the unit's base damage. If a unit does 1 normal and 9 AP and has a +10 bonus vs infantry, they'll do 2 normal and 18 AP against infantry in the end.
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Dec 24, 2019 09:13
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Thanks for all the mod suggestions earlier. Added a few and put some more on my watch list for later play through. This game is fun as heck.
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Dec 24, 2019 09:23
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terrorist ambulance posted:Lokhir's vortex start is actually pretty loving hard With the addition of Malus and the massive buff to Black Arks, he has a really powerful start if you initially avoid the stupid thunderdome. My approach: 1. Secure your starting province. Focus all of your unit production on your initial Black Ark, focus the initial province on economy and dump all of your slaves here to kick off your economy. 2. Secure the province south of you, the one with the high elves - there are two ports that your Black Ark can attack into and be reinforced by Lokhir. 3. Recruit 2 more Black Arks from the cities you take and begin building them up, ASAP. 4. Sail an armada(I used 2 Black Arks and Lokhir) southeast to take the isolated High Elf faction port there. I left a cheap lord with a throwaway stack and my third black ark behind to hold my two provinces. 5. Once you have that port, sail to the southeast corner of the map with your armada and stab Malus in the back, taking all 3 of his ports and killing him. You can do this by turn ~30-35 or so, and you end up with 4 provinces and a whopping 7 ports, giving you access to a ridiculous number of Black Arks to do whatever you want with - a fun option is sailing a giant death fleet up to Ulthuan and taking a dump on Tyrion. Since you have a ton of ports, all of your provinces are focused on economy, and your military exists primarily on Black Arks and is thus immensely cheap, your economy with this strat is ridiculously powerful and can support some very elite stacks. I find going inland with Lokhir is kind of dumb, pointless, and unfun. Trying to participate directly in the Lustrian Thunderdome robs you of your primary selling point as a lord, your Black Ark access. That and fighting into endless hordes of Skaven as dark elves sucks poo poo because they are deliberately designed to cause massive casualties on the defense, thus making crawling through their territory slow and painful.
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Dec 24, 2019 12:19
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skaven are great friends to lokhir.
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Dec 24, 2019 13:00
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Skaven make for excellent slave pinatas
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Dec 24, 2019 13:41
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Bought the Wood Elf DLC yesterday and had a blast melting everyone with my Waywatcher stack until I got out-melted by a Skaven army.
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Dec 24, 2019 13:43
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wood elf cav is one of the best in the game in my opinion. It's crazy fast and perfect to penetrate lovely skaven units to get to their meaty center
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Dec 24, 2019 13:54
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Yeah Wild Riders are lowkey one of the very best cavalry units in the entire game overall, combining the ludicrous speed and vanguard deployment of light cavalry with the hitting power of heavy shock cavalry. You can't ever go wrong tossing like 3 units in any WE stack and using them to wrap around and utterly murder any stupid enemy ranged units that try to shoot back at your archer blob in seconds. They're also really, really good at punching into enemy cav, since their speed means they can almost always get the charge. Once their duties in the backfield are done you can use them to sweep up all the enemies that are routing from you filling them with ten billion arrows.
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Dec 24, 2019 15:29
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Kanos posted:Black Arks are extremely good at owning the world now that they can attack and sack/capture coastal cities on their own and also safely provide your armies infinite high tier recruitment literally anywhere. Kanos posted:With the addition of Malus and the massive buff to Black Arks, he has a really powerful start if you initially avoid the stupid thunderdome. My approach: I am confused though because you cannot get a Black Ark for every port; it is Major Ports Only, which means capital settlement ports. With that strategy you outlined you would have 4 if my memory serves me right.
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Dec 24, 2019 15:46
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I am confused though because you cannot get a Black Ark for every port; it is Major Ports Only, which means capital settlement ports. With that strategy you outlined you would have 4 if my memory serves me right. Yeah I thought that too but that doesn't seem to be the case. I just loaded up an early save in that campaign and I have 4 ports - Chupayotl, Citadel of Dusk, Tip of Lustria, and Fortress of Dawn. 3 of those are province capitals and one of those is a minor settlement, so logically with the "major ports(province capitals) only" restriction I should only be able to have 3 arks. I have four black arks.  It's not a mod thing, either, since the only mods I was running in that campaign were better camera and skip intros. I just started assuming when they said "major port" they meant "any place that had a port building". Assuming it's a bug and the intent is only one ark per capital, that doesn't actually change much about the strategy - Chupayotl, Citadel of Dusk, and the Fortress of Dawn are all major settlements, and you'll get a fourth when you kick Malus out of the Dragon Isles. You can also expand north a little from your starting province and pick up Altar of the Horned Rat for another capital port, and use your naval dominance to take the Volcanic Islands(Star Tower and Fuming Serpent, both coastal) for yet another. Kanos fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Dec 24, 2019 |
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Dec 24, 2019 15:58
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Kanos posted:Yeah I thought that too but that doesn't seem to be the case. I just loaded up an early save in that campaign and I have 4 ports - Chupayotl, Citadel of Dusk, Tip of Lustria, and Fortress of Dawn. 3 of those are province capitals and one of those is a minor settlement, so logically with the "major ports(province capitals) only" restriction I should only be able to have 3 arks. I have four black arks. Related: Clyostra why. Both why are you here and why are you using an army a player would use?!? 
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Dec 24, 2019 16:22
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Them boat bois are all about going on adventures and having fun, don't worry about their merry-making!
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Dec 24, 2019 17:20
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Any advice on how to get a Black Ark Admiral to heal up when in foreign waters?
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Dec 24, 2019 17:32
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Kanos posted:With the addition of Malus and the massive buff to Black Arks, he has a really powerful start if you initially avoid the stupid thunderdome. My approach: I'll restart one later. I actually lost my first campaign as him. the first city you can expand to has a garrison building, so I stopped to recruit a bit, and by the time I did there was a full stack at the next town north. I fought back and forth a bit with the full stack until I was able to wipe it out, then Tehenhauin rolled in with a stack of sauruses and chameleon skinks and wiped me out. Even if he hadn't, my home province was rebelling and I was probably not going to make it back in time to save it. It's probably the most disastrous campaign start I've had in hundreds of hours of Total Warhammer
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Dec 24, 2019 17:37
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Any advice on how to get a Black Ark Admiral to heal up when in foreign waters? send him to neutral or friendly waters
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Dec 24, 2019 17:37
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It is christmas time That means it is time for a Santa Throgg campaign
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Dec 24, 2019 18:00
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lokhir trip report #2 - the early game solution to saurus warriors, or any other enemy, is mass darkshards
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Dec 24, 2019 18:18
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terrorist ambulance posted:lokhir trip report #2 - the early game solution to saurus warriors, or any other enemy, is mass darkshards darkshards are crazy. i found a 1-1-1 mix of darkshards, corsairs with handbows and corsairs is the best early game with lokhir cheap and effective as gently caress. Kanos posted:Yeah I thought that too but that doesn't seem to be the case. I just loaded up an early save in that campaign and I have 4 ports - Chupayotl, Citadel of Dusk, Tip of Lustria, and Fortress of Dawn. 3 of those are province capitals and one of those is a minor settlement, so logically with the "major ports(province capitals) only" restriction I should only be able to have 3 arks. I have four black arks. i think this is because you start with a black ark already. maybe. Kanos posted:Yeah Wild Riders are lowkey one of the very best cavalry units in the entire game overall, combining the ludicrous speed and vanguard deployment of light cavalry with the hitting power of heavy shock cavalry. You can't ever go wrong tossing like 3 units in any WE stack and using them to wrap around and utterly murder any stupid enemy ranged units that try to shoot back at your archer blob in seconds. They're also really, really good at punching into enemy cav, since their speed means they can almost always get the charge. wild riders are fantastic light cav, and sisters of the thorn are one of the pound for pound most annoying units in the game. can use spells, is fast, is a missile unit and can destroy any isolated weak target. worth a try at least
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Dec 24, 2019 19:11
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terrorist ambulance posted:lokhir trip report #2 - the early game solution to saurus warriors, or any other enemy, is mass darkshards The early game solution to pretty much anything but cavalry and artillery is darkshards(and darkshards still murder cavalry with a spear screen). They're just brutally powerful for T1 ranged troops.
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Dec 24, 2019 19:40
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Darkshards are completely ridiculous, because they are AP ranged unit without even a single trade-off that every other AP ranged unit has to keep them at least somewhat balanced.
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Dec 24, 2019 19:48
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Lt. Lizard posted:Darkshards are completely ridiculous, because they are AP ranged unit without even a single trade-off that every other AP ranged unit has to keep them at least somewhat balanced. Their range sucks, at least.
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Dec 24, 2019 19:52
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Yeah they have really lovely range relative to most bow/crossbow troops, which does make them vulnerable to being shot up on the way in or being engaged if your melee line buckles.
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Dec 24, 2019 19:58
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Lokhir's blades draw their power from the Indan god Gilgadresh.
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Dec 24, 2019 20:00
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Kanos posted:Yeah they have really lovely range relative to most bow/crossbow troops, which does make them vulnerable to being shot up on the way in or being engaged if your melee line buckles. Eh, this is what the shields are for. If your melee line buckles you're usually hosed anyway.
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Dec 24, 2019 20:04
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I'm like 30 turns in and my campaign has totally snowballed. Lokhir is sacking for 5 figures while replenishment recruitment centres follow him around teching up. The higher tiers of ark buildings not needing population to upgrade is so good
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Dec 24, 2019 20:07
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dogstile posted:Eh, this is what the shields are for. If your melee line buckles you're usually hosed anyway.
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Dec 24, 2019 20:07
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As far as some nitty gritty mechanic stuff goes, what exactly is required to get the charge bonus on units? How much of a run up do they really need? Does it vary by unit or by class, heavy cav vs light cav vs chariots for instance. I'm curious if I can run a chariot through a line of archers, come out the other side, then go into some swordsman and have refreshed the charge in the 2-3 second run up between archers/swords, and things of that nature, or if I have to full on disengage. Or, especially for chariots, do they have to run in perfectly straight? sometimes you give the attack order and it seems like the chariots start to charge in and pick up speed bu tthen have to adjust the angle slightly and bleed speed until they make a wet fart contact and I'm not sure I got the charge bonus at all.
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Dec 24, 2019 21:10
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Agent355 posted:As far as some nitty gritty mechanic stuff goes, what exactly is required to get the charge bonus on units? How much of a run up do they really need? Does it vary by unit or by class, heavy cav vs light cav vs chariots for instance. By my estimation at least 30 meters ish but it's hard to say since it does seem pretty fiddly.
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Dec 24, 2019 21:19
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The secret confederation penalty on Orcs is pretty bullshit, just binned a campaign when I had 3 simultaneous rebel armies encamping to mixed T3-4 20 stacks. I get it, I get it. They're Orcs. They're idiots. They start their research later than most, they're so stupid they get less excited to fight when you transfer units between armies(????), if you don't win a fight they'll self destruct and you can "fix" this by killing more of them yourself, you literally can't encamp and global recruit in your own land without raiding it. Very orky. But the god drat hidden penalty to the one beneficial orky thing to do, slap other gits into line, it's making it really hard to enjoy any start with this faction. Everybody else is free to confederate all they want(sure didn't have this issue with Brettonnia!) and my boys get depressed when my third lord passes some wolf riders off to my main stack before pausing to recruit the home defense army. Tell me I'm new and there's something I'm not seeing because this is the third time I've tried and stuck it out and whoops, didn't stare at the top of my screen for a pop-up less negative effect after some diplomacy. I guess the fourth time I'll just kill the other greenies to get their land. "Boss! Boss! We want to fight with you! Why won't you let us?!" You wouldn't understand.
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Dec 24, 2019 21:46
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