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Green doesn't normally mill other people, right?
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Dec 26, 2019 19:23
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Reik posted:Green doesn't normally mill other people, right? Green is the new black. It gets to do whatever it wants whenever it wants and too bad if you don't like it!
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Dec 26, 2019 19:29
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I wonder what happens in design and development meetings whenever someone goes “and we’ll make this card... Green!”... like does anyone ever go “Really? Again? Cant we make other cards in other colors good?”
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Dec 26, 2019 19:31
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Osmosisch posted:They ideally do more than "draw one card in three turns" though. What most people see:  What Osmosisch sees: 
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Dec 26, 2019 19:32
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Osmosisch is not wrong.
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Dec 26, 2019 19:40
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Bust Rodd posted:I wonder what happens in design and development meetings whenever someone goes “and we’ll make this card... Green!”... like does anyone ever go “Really? Again? Cant we make other cards in other colors good?” No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 19:43
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No Wave posted:I remember you whining over and over about the veil of summer ban You are remembering wrong, I was and am Pro Veil ban. I’m the guy who whines about White being the worst color and not being allowed to draw cards because of an arbitrary distinction made by a single guy working at WotC.
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Dec 26, 2019 19:54
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Lone Goat posted:seems fine for limited since it enables Escape for you and disables Escape for your opponent Imagine playing that on turn 6, milling an Escape card for the opponent, and they just cast their free card on their next turn before the graveyard hate part happens on turn 7.
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Dec 26, 2019 19:59
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ShadeofBlue posted:Osmosisch is not wrong. He is in the literal sense, the card does more things. He's not in the evaluation sense, milling 3 cards is not a good thing to do and the other effects are on a delay which drastically reduces their value pretty hard. It's occupying a weird space as an Escape enabler and answer. I think so many things for two mana is good... in limited, with the right list.
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Dec 26, 2019 20:01
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Gray Merchant at uncommon is a cowardly move buy i understand why it had to be done. Lunch today is a plain bagel toasted with veggie cream cheese. Plus a banana and green yogurt (pineapple flavor)
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Dec 26, 2019 20:11
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why is it Gray Merchant when the card is black
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Dec 26, 2019 20:20
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He's got problems with ashy skin (for he is dead, you see)
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Dec 26, 2019 20:30
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:He is in the literal sense, the card does more things. The fact that it mills both you and your opponent makes me really wary about running it in limited. I could see it being occasionally playable there though. No chance it touches constructed imo.
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Dec 26, 2019 20:49
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Grapple with the Past could be too good in a limited format with repeatable Escape engines.
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Dec 26, 2019 21:19
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Make a 1UG Saga called In Memory of Oko that creates a Food, elks something, and does his switcheroo thing.
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Dec 26, 2019 21:41
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It's a testament to how busted Oko was that a Saga that was 1UG verse one food, verse two elk, verse 3 swap would probably be pretty playable.
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Dec 26, 2019 21:50
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Lone Goat posted:it's the mill part that gets the god eternal Fair, I brainfarted on that part.
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Dec 26, 2019 22:05
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Kurtofan posted:i hope titan is going to be a type It'll be Giant, see Prime Time et al. E: I too hope they get reprinted, but they won't be.
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Dec 26, 2019 22:38
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Because the set symbol is gray now
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Dec 26, 2019 22:48
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Bust Rodd posted:I wonder what happens in design and development meetings whenever someone goes “and we’ll make this card... Green!”... like does anyone ever go “Really? Again? Cant we make other cards in other colors good?” It's a regrowth effect which has always been in greens colour pie.
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Dec 26, 2019 23:47
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Wezlar posted:It's a regrowth effect which has always been in greens colour pie. Yeah but milling your opponent is absolutely not. I understand it’s what makes the card work, but it’s usually something you do to yourself, like with Worldshaper. Manipulating your opponents library has always been strictly black and blue.
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Dec 27, 2019 06:37
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what about Lammastide Weave, lol
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Dec 27, 2019 06:40
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suicidesteve posted:Green is the new black. It gets to do whatever it wants whenever it wants and too bad if you don't like it! Bust Rodd posted:I wonder what happens in design and development meetings whenever someone goes “and we’ll make this card... Green!”... like does anyone ever go “Really? Again? Cant we make other cards in other colors good?” After reading it a few weeks ago, I can't get this article out of my head: The Council of Colors posted:Mark (Gottlieb) came to me with the idea of a creating a team to monitor the color pie. I wanted to figure out some of the structure, but I liked the idea. I gave my blessing and we discussed the topic during our next weekly design team meeting. The article also serves as a fascinating look into Mark's opinions on the importance and rigidity of the color pie.
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Dec 27, 2019 07:10
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If I read it I know I’ll just get mad. Mark Rosewater is an excellent macro game designer but hearing him talk about modern constructed magic is like listening to my mom talk about memes on Facebook
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Dec 27, 2019 07:20
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My point is, don't get mad at Mark Rosewater. Get mad at Ken Nagle!
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Dec 27, 2019 07:27
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ken nagle is why we have phyrexian mana cards ken nagle is why we have (or had) gitaxian probe
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Dec 27, 2019 07:36
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Phyrexian Mana is cool and K’rrik, Son of Yawgmoth owns bones so Nagle seems cool to me.
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Dec 27, 2019 07:42
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Lmao, I swear to God a few days ago I happened to be thinking of Ken Nagle and I was like "haven't heard anyone bitching about him in a while, I guess he probably moved on or stopped loving things up". Learning that he's still substantially responsible for the shittiness of Magic to this day** is a pretty fitting way to ring out 2019, Magically speaking. **Technically, extrapolating this from that article isn't rigorously justified, but it fits all the facts like a goddamn glove. Green is making things lovely. Ken Nagle makes things lovely. Ken Nagle has a hardon for green. Ken Nagle is still designing Magic for some reason (the reason is probably that he's all the way up Maro's rear end). Also lmaoing that in 2016 they still hadn't taken a better profile photo of Nagle than the "Dick Tracy rogues' gallery" one The Clowner posted:My point is, don't get mad at Mark Rosewater. Get mad at Ken Nagle! I'm pretty sure Ken Nagle couldn't do anything without Maro's imprimatur, though. It's perfectly valid to get mad at Maro, if only for enabling. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Dec 27, 2019 |
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Dec 27, 2019 08:35
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Nagle is a nice guy
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Dec 27, 2019 08:48
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I feel like the whole point of the colour pie is player perception the colours are distinct and roughly balanced, so having this insanely complex rules-based system feels like a bad way to approach that. It feels like it’s separated from what it’s supposed to achieve to the point players are going “this all feels wrong” and people go “ah but it’s not because of this arcane mess of justifications that exists”
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Dec 27, 2019 09:02
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is ken nagle the one who looks like a thumb edit: image search says yes
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Dec 27, 2019 09:26
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I think it's good that there are specific rules regarding which color can do what. It gives each color a separate identity, and even if the players don't know what those rules are, they result in each color having a different feel. The problem is when market research drives what those rules are is my guess. Green used to be sort of the worst color, but new players really like green, so they kept pushing what green can do, and it went overboard. Like seriously, here's a list of things green has now: * The biggest creatures * Arguably all the best creature keywords that aren't flying: trample, vigilance, haste, deathtouch * Creature removal (wicked wolf, etc) * Great lifegain options * Graveyard hate * Best at destroying artifacts and enchantments * The only color with mana ramp * Drawing cards * Regrowth effects * Veil of Summer * Card selection (stirrings, once upon a time)
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Dec 27, 2019 09:29
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man, the game would be so much better if only it was possible to build decks that couldn't [checks notes] remove creatures, or draw cards. that's why i play white weenie in every format
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Dec 27, 2019 09:50
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I mean more that when the rules get rigid enough they start being followed even when players think they feel wrong, when the point of them in the first place was in making it feel like a distinction exists. The notorious Golgari Serra Angel being an example of something the rules say is fine but people say feels wrong.
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Dec 27, 2019 09:50
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In one sense it seems weird to be bitching about Green right now, since Standard's current squad of fun police tend to have green in a supporting role at most, especially compared to the previous couple of months. But if you look at the other offenders, most of them come down to a small handful of troublemaking cards rather than an entire color's current design ethos. E.g., "black cards" aren't a problem; Cauldron Familiar is a problem (or, alternatively, Witch's Oven is a problem-- and that's not even a black card, of course). If you banned one or both of these, there'd still be a B/x sacrifice deck with some cool synergy, it just wouldn't be the canker sore it currently is. Even blue, which has had its turns at being the format's influenza virus over the past year or two, is mostly okay when relatively specific subthemes like "three-mana planeswalkers" or "Curious Obsession" aren't rearing their heads, or when it isn't getting a boost from other colors, as in Fires of Invention or an injection of flash creatures from (of course) Green. Green, on the other hand... well, Bonus summed it up pretty well while I was editing this post, so, yeah. All of that. ungulateman posted:man, the game would be so much better if only it was possible to build decks that couldn't [checks notes] remove creatures, or draw cards. that's why i play white weenie in every format It's an honor to meet you, Mr. Wescoe
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Dec 27, 2019 09:54
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You can't blame the terrible design decisions of the last year and some solely on green or the color pie. Nexus of Fate never should have seen print, certainly not as a buy a box promo. Modern Horizons had a bunch of poo poo that broke the eternal formats, seemingly intentionally given how well pushed Pioneer was as a new format, but it's not like Wrenn and Six or Hogaak being green was why they were busted. Mechanically unique pushed Brawl legends in precons that are standard legal was dumb, but they're three color so it's not that unlikely that Korvold would be the busted one. Oko was an obvious mistake and WotC hasn't given a particularly good explanation for it or Once upon a Time or Veil of Summer existing, but just consider the other
Field of the Dead was a mistake where they just forgot to keep Field of Ruin in print for some stupid reason. Field was fine before rotation, the real problem card in that Scapeshift deck was 3 mana Teferi being real dumb. Oko, Once and Veil just happened to be busted green cards at a time where green was already strong due to other pushed green cards like Hydroid Krasis, Questing Beast and Nissa. It isn't like Oko or Veil or Once would less busted if they'd been printed in Dominaria or whatever, they'd still be broken cards that shouldn't have seen print. The fact that their explanation for Oko is that they didn't use its +1 ability on opposing targets doesn't pass the smell test, so there's gotta be another reason, and maybe that reason is similar to the reasons for all the other unhealthy pushed cards coming out outside of regular standard set booster packs.
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Dec 27, 2019 10:39
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Hellsau posted:You can't blame the terrible design decisions of the last year and some solely on green or the color pie. Nexus of Fate never should have seen print, certainly not as a buy a box promo. Modern Horizons had a bunch of poo poo that broke the eternal formats, seemingly intentionally given how well pushed Pioneer was as a new format, but it's not like Wrenn and Six or Hogaak being green was why they were busted. Mechanically unique pushed Brawl legends in precons that are standard legal was dumb, but they're three color so it's not that unlikely that Korvold would be the busted one. Oko was an obvious mistake and WotC hasn't given a particularly good explanation for it or Once upon a Time or Veil of Summer existing, but just consider the other they're just idiots, friend. they aren't deliberately ruining modern to push A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Dec 27, 2019 |
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Dec 27, 2019 11:03
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A big flaming stink posted:they're just idiots, friend. they aren't deliberately ruining modern to push frontier, they're just incredibly stupid about mana discounts Speaking of mana discounts and stupidity, with the closet speculation about elspeth and the set after... Say it with me now, 'Devotion to Phyrexia'.
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Dec 27, 2019 11:16
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"at a time that green happened to be strong" narrows that down to the past what, ten years? also ken nagles keyword pwnage lmao
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Dec 27, 2019 11:48
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The mill being symmetrical is probably a drawback in this card's format (TBD limited).
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Dec 27, 2019 13:36
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