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I always gave mine AP rounds, if I had them. That’s my default special ammo for everyone, aside from assaults/reapers. Giving them Talon rounds and laser sights is a recipe for comedy 
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Dec 27, 2019 16:03
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rabidsquid posted:you have no way to get blue screen rounds on purpose in early game Isn't all you need for those an Advent MEC unit?
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Dec 27, 2019 16:33
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And a proving ground and I think they take like 5 days to finish but if you are getting lucky on supply drops it should be an achievable goal and given that blue screen rounds trivialize every non-boss threat in the game I'd say always prioritize getting these.
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Dec 27, 2019 16:38
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which is fine, but by the time that all happens even if it does i feel like sharpshooters have already become relatively useable units
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Dec 27, 2019 16:42
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rabidsquid posted:which is fine, but by the time that all happens even if it does i feel like sharpshooters have already become relatively useable units Bluescreen synergizes well with Fan Fire (it’s an extra FIFTEEN DAMAGE in one attack!). Did they ever fix ammo types not working with face off?
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Dec 27, 2019 16:54
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Bluescreen rounds are certifiably overpowered (imo they should probably be ~3 dmg), but as mentioned the slump sharpshooters go through is solved via experience; using the example of a colonel-level skill being boosted by single ammo type more than others is hardly a good example of why you should 'rush' said ammo. This is doubly true if your midlevel sharpshooter is sniping instead of being a pistolier. Get blusecreen ammo, it's good. But it's unrelated to making early game sharpshooters good.
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Dec 27, 2019 19:12
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Sharpshooters just happen to be the class that has the bandwidth to use the drat things without missing out on other options they tend to use. There’s nothing wrong with putting them on a specialist or a ranger, but they’re typically too busy toting medkits and grenades already.
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Dec 27, 2019 19:22
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I honestly don't understand the public opinion that snipers go through a "rough patch" during their career, that they only become relevant with later promotions. They always seem to be useful if you give them some high ground.
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Dec 27, 2019 19:57
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I honestly don't understand the public opinion that snipers go through a "rough patch" during their career, that they only become relevant with later promotions. They always seem to be useful if you give them some high ground. The fact they can do some reliable damage without having to reload makes them great at mopping up weakened enemies if you’re in over your head, too. I love me some pistol kills.
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Dec 27, 2019 20:32
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I honestly don't understand the public opinion that snipers go through a "rough patch" during their career, that they only become relevant with later promotions. They always seem to be useful if you give them some high ground. not being able to move and fire makes them awkward to use when they are still relatively inexperienced and as such their aim is still relatively low. you can give them high ground but it's difficult to get excited about them when a squadsight shot is rolling in the 40s or 50s to hit and they don't have the pistol skills to make rolling with the rest of the team worthwhile. sure, there's a lot to be said about a squadsight shot having no downsides, but there's also a lot to be said about just bringing another soldier that can throw a grenade.
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Dec 27, 2019 20:34
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Snipers are my covert action fodder until they’re a sergeant or so, especially if the reward is a soldier promotion.
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Dec 27, 2019 20:41
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The pistol build on sharpshooters is very nice early - especially when you start running into enemies that are just a little bit too tough for your troops to one shot, the gunslinger lets you secure two kills with three soldiers instead of needing four. And being with the squad lets them carry and toss a grenade if it comes to that. You can backfill DGG in the training center later if you prefer them to eventually become a full sniper.
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Dec 27, 2019 20:43
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Jabor posted:I think by the time most people choose to take on the chosen, 3 codexes and an andromedon are not a big deal. I guess I figured it out, the tech wasn't the issue just my tactics. I'd put everyone on overwatch and then have my scout start the encounter, apparently overwatch sucks rear end. This time I left everyone's actions free and had the scout trigger them, worked out better.
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Dec 27, 2019 20:47
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I honestly don't understand the public opinion that snipers go through a "rough patch" during their career, that they only become relevant with later promotions. They always seem to be useful if you give them some high ground. Exactly what Coolguye said above me; a squaddie sniper has barely better aim than a rookie, but almost all his shots will be taken with a worse % since he can't move+shoot (nor will you have grappling hooks early game). Having a long-range-biased weapon is of no use if you don't have the base acc to take long-range shots, much less at anyone in cover. Meanwhile, the rookie's worst-case scenario of blue-moving closer and taking a bad shot is the sniper best case, nevermind being able to flank-shot, or keep up with the team in a time crunch. This all gets remedied when the sniper gets enough aim% so that you can anchor your engagements about him, in addition to gear upgrades and skills doing their thing.
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Dec 27, 2019 20:50
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Codex teleportation doesn’t trigger overwatch, which is (as you noticed) a terrible way to try and deal with them. Being flexible and aggressive is the only way to deal with them, spread out everyone so a single psi-blast doesn’t leave your entire squad reloading/running away for a turn and be crafty with your grenades. Sometimes it’s possible to blow away their cover, and leave them intact. The ideal is to set up a hard hitter (like an assault with talon rounds) with a clear, no-cover shot on a codex, and hopefully one-shot it. When they clone, each one has half the life of its parent; it won’t clone if it only has 1 life left, though.
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Dec 27, 2019 20:53
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Icon Of Sin posted:Snipers are my covert action fodder until they’re a sergeant or so, especially if the reward is a soldier promotion. I don't fully understand the promotion mechanics - is it harder to get a promotion the higher ranked a soldier is? In which case is it better to save a guaranteed promotion covert mission for your higher ranked soldiers?
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Dec 27, 2019 20:58
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I’m not sure, but as pointed out by others it seems like snipers benefit a little more than the other classes*. Most of the time my snipers are playing catch-up with their rank as well (compared to the other soldiers that came on board about the same time). *i have no experience with psionics soldiers e: most of my soldiers end up earning their promotions the normal way, especially the grenadiers. Snipers feel like more of a struggle to level up, so anything that makes that easier feels like a good choice.
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Dec 27, 2019 21:06
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mila kunis posted:I don't fully understand the promotion mechanics - is it harder to get a promotion the higher ranked a soldier is? In which case is it better to save a guaranteed promotion covert mission for your higher ranked soldiers? Yes, it does take more XP the higher they are, but the guaranteed promotions are completely up to you. I personally find that once a soldier gets up to about Lieutenant they are a lot more useful, so I often use them for lower level promotions. There are a couple of key skills in certain classes that greatly boost them though, so sometimes I'll use them for that (Grenadier Volatile Mix at Captain, and Salvo at Major for instance, or the Target Definition for a Skirmisher at Sergeant).
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Dec 27, 2019 21:07
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Serephina posted:Exactly what Coolguye said above me; a squaddie sniper has barely better aim than a rookie, but almost all his shots will be taken with a worse % since he can't move+shoot (nor will you have grappling hooks early game). Having a long-range-biased weapon is of no use if you don't have the base acc to take long-range shots, much less at anyone in cover. Meanwhile, the rookie's worst-case scenario of blue-moving closer and taking a bad shot is the sniper best case, nevermind being able to flank-shot, or keep up with the team in a time crunch. I mean, you could say the same things about assaults and specialists. Assaults lack the accuracy and damage to use their blade, and mediocre accuracy with their shotguns; specialists just get an occasional defensive power which is always useful, but generally unremarkable. Grenadiers are just great right out of the gate.
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Dec 27, 2019 21:13
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Always always power-level your first sharpshooter in Covert Ops until they hit sergeant (iirc, whatever gets you squadsize ++). I'd rather take a rookie than a squaddie sniper any day and you'll want a single soldier at high rank for squadsize upgrades. It might as well be of a class that can't really pull its weight on the battlefield until a bit later anyway. Plus I think they benefit the most from the +aim projects of any basic class (And maybe even any class but skirmishers) so might as well do those too. E: forgot about gunner grenadiers. They need the aim upgrades most. But still, a single sharpshooter should at least be present on basically every covert op you run until they hit mid-level. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Dec 27, 2019 |
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Dec 27, 2019 22:57
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I mean, you could say the same things about assaults and specialists. Assaults lack the accuracy and damage to use their blade, and mediocre accuracy with their shotguns; specialists just get an occasional defensive power which is always useful, but generally unremarkable. the sword upgrade makes the sword useful almost immediately but the huge difference and reason that assault and specialist are immediately better (and rookies are better than a squaddie sniper) is there's virtually zero situation where a squaddie sharpshooter with a sniper rifle or unmodified pistol is as good as just anyone alive with a rifle. like a sniper is just worse than a rookie until they get some promotions. that's untrue of the other three classes.
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Dec 27, 2019 23:19
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rabidsquid posted:the sword upgrade makes the sword useful almost immediately but the huge difference and reason that assault and specialist are immediately better (and rookies are better than a squaddie sniper) is there's virtually zero situation where a squaddie sharpshooter with a sniper rifle or unmodified pistol is as good as just anyone alive with a rifle. I'd argue that a sniper almost always has a safe high ground shot, while a rookie will probably be stuck on low cover if they fire from hi ground.
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Dec 27, 2019 23:23
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I mean, you could say the same things about assaults and specialists. Assaults lack the accuracy and damage to use their blade, and mediocre accuracy with their shotguns; specialists just get an occasional defensive power which is always useful, but generally unremarkable. hell no. rangers getting to use shotguns is incredible because shotguns get large accuracy bonuses for being at close range, so they're markedly better than a rookie just for that, forget the damage bonus that shotguns have. the blade is useful right out of the gate because it OHKOs sectoids. it's not 100% but a 90% chance to one hit quit the fucker casting mindspin and reanimating zombies? yes please. specialists are able to use a medkit and hack at arbitrary range right out of the gate, the latter of which will absolutely save guerrilla actions that are timed, and the former of which will probably save a gi joe or jane early on when you can take exactly one hit before being in the kill zone.
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Dec 27, 2019 23:27
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if you need the sniper to hit somebody to kill them and you have them in high ground they probably aren't working with a good hit percentage. if you have four soldiers in position that you can reliably flank and grenade it's much less likely you're getting shot back. frankly i have trouble getting snipers good enough shots to get them those early promotions and usually have to rely on the exp boost for no one getting hit.Coolguye posted:hell no. rangers getting to use shotguns is incredible because shotguns get large accuracy bonuses for being at close range, so they're markedly better than a rookie just for that, forget the damage bonus that shotguns have. the blade is useful right out of the gate because it OHKOs sectoids. it's not 100% but a 90% chance to one hit quit the fucker casting mindspin and reanimating zombies? yes please. i largely agree with this but i would argue sharpshooters are better medkit users than specialists off the bat just because of the overwhelming power of having that extra grenade on somebody in a relevant position.
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Dec 27, 2019 23:28
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Cpt_Obvious posted:I mean, you could say the same things about assaults and specialists. Assaults lack the accuracy and damage to use their blade, and mediocre accuracy with their shotguns; specialists just get an occasional defensive power which is always useful, but generally unremarkable. No. Rangers and Specialists are strictly better than the rookie they came from; remember that rangers can take a rifle. The sharpshooter has the distinction of being the only class that's a side-grade at squaddie; this can make the 2nd & 3rd missions harder than they need to be, especially if you need to feed the sharpshooter a kill and he keeps goddamn missing. Not everyone can be a Grenadier, sigh. e:f,b Serephina fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Dec 28, 2019 |
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Dec 28, 2019 00:03
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By the time you've unlocked Codices (and by default, at least, they're always locked behind that first Advent Officer skulljack), one soldier should always be carrying a flashbang and another should have a Frost grenade, imo. Even better if you can spare one of your Grenadier's slots to the Frost. I would also accept a PsiOp or two as acceptable substitutes for Frost grenades, but the power to use Stasis and say "you don't get to respond this turn" is huge.
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Dec 28, 2019 00:53
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Is it possible to give soldiers abilities from the XCOM ability pool outside of when they get promoted? I thought I saw that once but I'm not sure how to do that from the UI
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Dec 28, 2019 02:29
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mila kunis posted:Is it possible to give soldiers abilities from the XCOM ability pool outside of when they get promoted? I thought I saw that once but I'm not sure how to do that from the UI The training grounds lets you spend ability points to buy new powers.
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Dec 28, 2019 02:30
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A sharpshooter with a reaper can eliminate one Advent to open an encounter using squadsight. They are definitely not a side grade. SS should be pushing right alongside the rest of the squad. Even if they can't open an encounter their grenade and pistol make them great for cleaning up as long as you don't have them perched in the back. A common thing I see in playthroughs is people having their SS trail behind and having to take low percentage shots because they are a "sniper". I keep them with the group, especially early, and find them useful. I play legend so a lot of shots will leave 1-2 hp and my pistol cleans up pretty reliably.
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Dec 28, 2019 02:53
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You realize that everything you said about them a rookie can do, right? Well, apart from leaning on a Reaper to break the game in WotC, that is. You can also break Reapers w/o a sniper; just stand in their patrol path with overwatch up. Nets you two turns of shooting instead of one, to boot.
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Dec 28, 2019 04:28
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Playing modded with RPGO, ABA, and Beta Strike and I'm enjoying the prolonged encounters and the slightly increased margin of error where taking a couple shots is still survivable for rookies. The one thing about RPGO I'm not as keen on is manually distributing stat upgrades, because I just know I'm going to end up in the late game with a bunch of very mobile cowards because I'm always putting move speed upgrades in why would I spend those same points on willpower? Come on. The other thing is it seems like maybe 80% of the skill trees are related to secondaries, and you can only have one. In an otherwise wide open mod it really limits your options with "this is the claymore tree, this is the holotargeter tree, this is the gauntlet tree".
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Dec 28, 2019 04:40
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My modded run started really rough! I had no idea the modded enemies where that strong. It's fun to be surprised by this game, but not getting ANY scientist or engineer for the first 2 months (I either lost the missions due to squad wipe or had to hightail out of them) put me very much behind on everything. I'm really enjoying myself is what I'm getting at. Oh and MOCX are ASSHOLES.
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Dec 28, 2019 05:40
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Vib Rib posted:Playing modded with RPGO, ABA, and Beta Strike and I'm enjoying the prolonged encounters and the slightly increased margin of error where taking a couple shots is still survivable for rookies. The one thing about RPGO I'm not as keen on is manually distributing stat upgrades, because I just know I'm going to end up in the late game with a bunch of very mobile cowards because I'm always putting move speed upgrades in why would I spend those same points on willpower? Come on. The short answer is that you should spend it on willpower because it increases your defence against mind control and panic, BUT ALSO controls how often your guys come home tired, which allows you to take guys on multiple missions and level faster. I used to pump Aim and Will almost exclusively, with the exception of bringing Mobility up to baseline 12, but you don't actually need that much Aim and your hacker specialists really need the hack score more than you'd think. And yeah, in general, RPGO has a problem with Single Secondary trees, although a lot of that is the LW Secondaries rather than the base game. There isn't even a sawn off tree (I guess shotgun perks apply to it anyway?). But some weapons kind of require multiple trees to get the most out of, in my opinion.
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Dec 28, 2019 06:01
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Will is also cheap as gently caressVincent posted:Oh and MOCX are ASSHOLES. Just do a little aggressive recruitment and they can be YOUR assholes
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Dec 28, 2019 06:08
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Torchlighter posted:The short answer is that you should spend it on willpower because it increases your defence against mind control and panic, BUT ALSO controls how often your guys come home tired, which allows you to take guys on multiple missions and level faster. I used to pump Aim and Will almost exclusively, with the exception of bringing Mobility up to baseline 12, but you don't actually need that much Aim and your hacker specialists really need the hack score more than you'd think. When you say "you don't need that much aim" I mean how much aim do you not need and why because it seems pretty vitally important, especially for certain builds.
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Dec 28, 2019 06:20
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Rpgo is best played with the option that gives each soldier three trees at squaddie. Sometimes you get a sick combo... Sometimes you get three trees focused on three different secondaries.
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Dec 28, 2019 06:45
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Captain Foo posted:Rpgo is best played with the option that gives each soldier three trees at squaddie. Sometimes you get a sick combo... Sometimes you get three trees focused on three different secondaries.
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Dec 28, 2019 07:06
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Vib Rib posted:I'm using that but not sure how much balance I want in commander's choice vs totally random. Getting to pick every time might miss some cool synergies and overcome some obstacles (as if aliens aren't enough), but then on the other hand what's even worse than getting to only use one tree is rolling Rocketeer on so many troops and Hacker/Medic on none. Full disclosure, I have a lot of extra class specializations that add all sorts of broken things. Assault, Sniper and Infantry don't quite lock you in, but they're very obviously for particular weapons. There's a lot more trees for things like gremlins, swords and pistols, and a few for grenade launchers. The gauntlet has two trees, I think? And then the other secondaries have one, generally, including the combat knife and shields etc. And I believe there's one for each of the factions hero weapons, gauntlets, ripjack and C4. I use 1 random tree and 3 choices for my soldiers, which generally lets you build around the origins as well as the getting obscene random tree, but I also have entire trees that are basically weapon agnostic, like mercenary and big game hunter etc (not sure where they're from) Weapons want certain trees, for example swords always want blademaster from the ranger tree etc. I've had an amazing amount of value out of various pistol classes (survivalist and enforcer are sweet). As for aim... I generally pumped aim to 72 over a few levels, which is where aim goes from 3AP to 4AP, but vanilla Xcom soldiers actually don't gain that much. Assaults and supports end up with 80, gunners with 75 and snipers with the most, so you can see that aim isn't as big a priority as you may think, although obvs with enemy mods they may have built in defences. Granted they also gained less will, but you have the SP to play with, and I hate hate HATE mind control.
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Dec 28, 2019 08:34
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Aim has basically two levels worth getting to: - I am baseline competent and can consistently hit a flanked or out-of-cover target - gently caress you, I can consistently shoot a guy through full cover While getting to the second level is potentially a nice problem-solver, you really don't need it on everyone and those points are often better spent elsewhere.
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Dec 28, 2019 09:51
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Torchlighter posted:I also have entire trees that are basically weapon agnostic, like mercenary and big game hunter etc (not sure where they're from)
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Dec 28, 2019 11:01
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