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2020 Tane
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Jan 2, 2020 01:05
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Jobbo_Fett posted:2020 Tane
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Jan 2, 2020 01:57
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Tane.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:43
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Quavers posted:
I have to ask, because I really don't understand- the bug report system has been out and in use for like, four years now. To the best of my knowledge, like six bugs have actually been reported "Fixed" in the system in that time- literally six out of tens of thousands reported. I mean, it's not like the game gets any visible fixes to long standing issues- or if it does, they have no regression testing, because poo poo gets broken again the very next patch. Is there any evidence that CIG actually looks at or interacts with the bug reports in any way? Is it literally just a hole marked "Complaints?" People are actually still diligently trying to format correctly worded bug reports, spending their real time reproducing errors, and then filling out forms to submit to this site. Are they doing all that in the full knowledge that no human being has ever actually bothered to loving look at any of it, and never will? If that is the case... I don't know that I've ever seen a community quite as stupid as Star Citizen's fan base.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:06
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When you are asking people to pay to test your game .. You get what you get
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Sarsapariller posted:If that is the case... I don't know that I've ever seen a community quite as stupid as Star Citizen's fan base. If you don't know what that is cease and worry no further
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Jan 2, 2020 04:47
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G0RF posted:YOUTUBE: Twerk calls 2019 “A Step in the Right Direction” for Star Citizen. Hmmm, that implies Star Citizen in 2018 was in the wrong direction. I guess development really started in 2019.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:48
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Jobbo_Fett posted:2020 Tane TYOOL Tane-ty Tane-ty.
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Jan 2, 2020 05:00
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Sarsapariller posted:I have to ask, because I really don't understand- the bug report system has been out and in use for like, four years now. To the best of my knowledge, like six bugs have actually been reported "Fixed" in the system in that time- literally six out of tens of thousands reported. I mean, it's not like the game gets any visible fixes to long standing issues- or if it does, they have no regression testing, because poo poo gets broken again the very next patch. The evidence I'd use is what you just said about the report to fix ratio, but the deeper evidence is that the game isn't working in almost any capacity. CIG just can't get it to work. The remaining backers are stupid enough to see a malfunction as a "bug" because they are doing the reports in good faith, but we know better. Clipping through ships, and the tens of thousands of other problems aren't bugs - they're the inevitable symptoms of a company that couldn't code a calculator app trying to make a complicated game. The game isn't even broken - it's an attempt to code a playable demo, and the attempt failed so hard it burned a quarter billion dollars over a decade and has nothing to show for it. It sounds like a philosophical point, and maybe it is, but that's what we have. A model-viewer where the camera is temporarily placed inside a badly animated ship or commando. For all their claims of not "cheating" and doing things "real," CIG made the fakest game of all. A first-person camera tour that looks like a game in screenshots. Every time they add more graphical assets, it's touted as progress. Every time they claim to have put in a mechanic, like "mining," which is just a button press for the camera view, it's touted as progress. CIG's progress isn't additive, it's multiplicative. And they started at 0. Which means that's where they still are. Scruffpuff fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 05:06
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kilus aof posted:Hmmm, that implies Star Citizen in 2018 was in the wrong direction. I guess development really started in 2019. The great leap forward is near.
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Jan 2, 2020 05:19
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Scruffpuff posted:The game isn't even broken - it's an attempt to code a playable demo That's their incomprehensible method, remember the good old "we will develop modules and merge them together" and boum a game is born. Every module had heavy problems and has been abandoned so there is nothing to merge, remember the "star marine is already in the game" ; soon we'll have "sq54 is already here just fly citizen". They just don't understand game development.
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Jan 2, 2020 05:37
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Zzr posted:That's their incomprehensible method, remember the good old "we will develop modules and merge them together" and boum a game is born. Every module had heavy problems and has been abandoned so there is nothing to merge, remember the "star marine is already in the game" ; soon we'll have "sq54 is already here just fly citizen". They just don't understand game development. Chris thought he could contract out the development of individual modules to real developers and then just stitch them together at the end. Presto, game development understood. I want to know who convinced him that such an approach could work or if that's what Chris actually believed about software development. This whole thing boils down to Chris thought he could get someone else to do his homework for him and he could take all the credit. Which, ironically, is how most of his former career went.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:22
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Zzr posted:That's their incomprehensible method, remember the good old "we will develop modules and merge them together" and boum a game is born. Every module had heavy problems and has been abandoned so there is nothing to merge, remember the "star marine is already in the game" ; soon we'll have "sq54 is already here just fly citizen". They just don't understand game development. One in the Bum posted:Chris thought he could contract out the development of individual modules to real developers and then just stitch them together at the end. Presto, game development understood. I want to know who convinced him that such an approach could work or if that's what Chris actually believed about software development. This whole thing boils down to Chris thought he could get someone else to do his homework for him and he could take all the credit. Which, ironically, is how most of his former career went. That’s a huge part of this mess that is memory holed by CIG and the backers whenever they trot out their “early days/development really didn’t start until year X” bullshit. Chris spent millions contracting work out to third party studios in those early years, and almost none of it wound up being useable. Right out of the gate he was burning money, but in the Citizen’s broken brains, the lack of any progress and the smaller staff of that era, means that development really didn’t start until 2014/2015 and everything is normal and good. colonelwest fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 08:32
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One in the Bum posted:Chris thought he could contract out the development of individual modules to real developers and then just stitch them together at the end. Presto, game development understood. I want to know who convinced him that such an approach could work or if that's what Chris actually believed about software development. This whole thing boils down to Chris thought he could get someone else to do his homework for him and he could take all the credit. Which, ironically, is how most of his former career went. Chris convinced himself. He was literally told by various advisors, no. Not maybe, no. Then he lied, and collected money for lies. Pretty standard game development really.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:56
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quote:The whole year of 2019 I was lurking the Something Awful Star Citizen section to get news about refunds/delays/excuses and the mis-managment of Chris Roberts and Star Citizen but now as of 1/1/2020 the site has gone into paid only viewership and gone dark. I'm getting a message saying I have to either pay money OR I cant read/look at the Star Citizen thread anymore. 
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Jan 2, 2020 09:31
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Lowtax's spine is our Star Citizen.
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Jan 2, 2020 10:17
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colonelwest posted:That’s a huge part of this mess that is memory holed by CIG and the backers whenever they trot out their “early days/development really didn’t start until year X” bullshit. Chris spent millions contracting work out to third party studios in those early years, and almost none of it wound up being useable. Remember how they contracted star marine out to Raphael Saadiq's illfonic and apparently all the assets came back to the wrong scale because star citizen has no design document or any kind of standardization Also what ever came of that big leak from ben showing an ftp or whatever on stream? Wasn't there a capital ship or something in it?
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Jan 2, 2020 10:25
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Finally the great wall of tax is back up. Good riddance.
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Jan 2, 2020 10:30
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Sarsapariller posted:I have to ask, because I really don't understand- the bug report system has been out and in use for like, four years now. To the best of my knowledge, like six bugs have actually been reported "Fixed" in the system in that time- literally six out of tens of thousands reported. I mean, it's not like the game gets any visible fixes to long standing issues- or if it does, they have no regression testing, because poo poo gets broken again the very next patch. CIG interacted with it at one point for sure. When they deleted every single bug report that one time.
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Jan 2, 2020 10:37
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Scruffpuff posted:The evidence I'd use is what you just said about the report to fix ratio, but the deeper evidence is that the game isn't working in almost any capacity. CIG just can't get it to work. The remaining backers are stupid enough to see a malfunction as a "bug" because they are doing the reports in good faith, but we know better. Clipping through ships, and the tens of thousands of other problems aren't bugs - they're the inevitable symptoms of a company that couldn't code a calculator app trying to make a complicated game. Well, I think the remaining Citizens are loving stupid. There, I said it. They think some superficial poo poo like caves, new spaceships or a new planet equals progress. What they don't see or want to see is that people still falling through geometry, no MMO-features whatsoever, the buggy UI system, hosed up physics and such. CIG wasn't able to tackle any of these problems in a meaningful way. And no, this is not some fan project or an open source game, its a ~250 million dollar, supposedly AAA game which CIG is using to play development studio since more than 8 years. The Citizens don't understand this. They think people fall through the geometry because some dev wrote stuff like * 0.01 instead of * 0.1, fixable issue, just an oversight. Well, no, their whole foundation is so rotten that bugfixes that touch engine stuff are not possible in a sustainable way anymore. 8 years with basically no progress and the same bugs still present are proof enough for me at this point. However, the Citizens are proud that they help the "bugsmashers" (what a loving stupid description) and feel like real gamedevs. In reality this bugtracker is just window dressing, CIG is simply completely in over their heads, the "fast victories" of the early days cost them dearly now. No one there ever said things like: "No, adding this feature in that way will break a thousand things along the road and is unmaintainable", and if someone did, he was booted by CR afterwards. He is a visionary and doesn't want some hesitant naysayer around him. In a way it's sad, if Citizens want to play gamedev, there are some open source games or engines out there that could really use a hand. And you know what? Citizens would do something good for a change instead of financing some hack his new mansion and I guarantee that they would learn a thing or two about programming. Anyway, since the remaining backers are really incredible stupid this whole thing will go on for a few more years. A new planet, a new star system, some new ship and these morons are happy.
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Jan 2, 2020 12:16
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Jan 2, 2020 12:26
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Sankis posted:Remember how they contracted star marine out to Raphael Saadiq's illfonic and apparently all the assets came back to the wrong scale because star citizen has no design document or any kind of standardization That leak helped CIG immensely and fired off the "CIG is doing tons of things in the background" mantra. Funniest thing about the bug reporter for me was it was bugged to and took them forever to fix it.
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Jan 2, 2020 12:30
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C-Bangin' it 
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Has anything from the leak actually showed up in a playable* form?
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Jan 2, 2020 12:42
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Yeah the paywall has nothing to do with artificial scarcity this time, and to quote TGRS' tagline: it's not about you [, commando ]. 
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Jan 2, 2020 12:43
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Huh? Did I miss something? The narrative changed again and SC is considered beta now? So SC is feature complete and there are just some known and unknown bugs and performance issues left? Good to know, I'll buy an Idris now. This is the one thing that really pisses me off about Citizens. They are completely clueless and think they know how things work just by drinking Chris' Kool-Aid. They assume that every developer is so atrociously bad as CIG. Do these guys really think titles like GTA V, Red Dead Redemption 2 or Horizon Zero Dawn looked that bad after eight years?
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Jan 2, 2020 12:46
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Meanwhile in development teams that actually - Warframe (Digital Extremes, 2013) as F2P is in Top12 top grossing Steam games for 2019 - Planet ZOO (FDev, 2019) is in Top40 - Stellaris (Paradox Interactive, 2016) is in Top40 - Planet Coaster and Jurassic park: Evo (FDev, 2016 and 2018) are in Top100 - Astroneer (System Era Softworks, 2016) is in Top100 - NMS (Hello Games, 2016) is in Top100 - Subnautica: BZ (Unknown Worlds Entertainment, EA) is in Top100 - RimWorld (Ludeon Studios, 2018) is in Top100 To clarify, Top12 likely means gross revenues over 200M (estimated from Total War sales which released in May), and even the lowest tiers of Top100 mean millions of revenue, for the games listed likely above ten millions at least. Clearly space games (or in FDev's case funding of space games in 2019 and future, listed it purely for Elite) are dead. Source: https://store.steampowered.com/sale/2019_top_sellers
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Jan 2, 2020 13:14
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Sarsapariller posted:I have to ask, because I really don't understand- the bug report system has been out and in use for like, four years now. To the best of my knowledge, like six bugs have actually been reported "Fixed" in the system in that time- literally six out of tens of thousands reported. I mean, it's not like the game gets any visible fixes to long standing issues- or if it does, they have no regression testing, because poo poo gets broken again the very next patch. Besides clearing them out every patch/year, nope. If the staff members have ever seen the game beyond the cryengine editor that would be loving news to everyone. Not even their community managers have active twitch accounts and if they do, they certainly ain't playing star citizen. If I recall, there is an RTV/ATV episode where there is a discussion them somehow fixing a bug with no knowledge on how or what fixed it. That is all you need to know how much they know about game development.
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Jan 2, 2020 13:22
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Colostomy Bag posted:That leak helped CIG immensely and fired off the "CIG is doing tons of things in the background" mantra. I have absolutely no doubt that those running CIG are doing lots of things in the background .... Things like breaking a contract with their engine supplier, supporting a want to be actress, setting up a system of 20 + shell companies, spending millions of dollars contracting out work that they never use due to them mismanaging it, attending trade shows, but in a non official manner, selling off 10% of the company that the backers had paid for and profiting themselves personally, tickling in Black, wasting talented actors time, using backers money to invest in other companies, misleading journalist and backers, getting in poop flinging matches with Derek Smart, attending the Monaco GP as research, self doxxing, degrading other companies that they believe to be their peers and final laughing and making fun of the idiots that give them money.
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Jan 2, 2020 13:43
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ggangensis posted:Well, I think the remaining Citizens are loving stupid. There, I said it. well, do gamebreaking bugs count? because 3.8 added a fuckton of those too.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:05
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Kosumo posted:I have absolutely no doubt that those running CIG are doing lots of things in the background .... Things like breaking a contract with their engine supplier, supporting a want to be actress, setting up a system of 20 + shell companies, spending millions of dollars contracting out work that they never use due to them mismanaging it, attending trade shows, but in a non official manner, selling off 10% of the company that the backers had paid for and profiting themselves personally, tickling in Black, wasting talented actors time, using backers money to invest in other companies, misleading journalist and backers, getting in poop flinging matches with Derek Smart, attending the Monaco GP as research, self doxxing, degrading other companies that they believe to be their peers and final laughing and making fun of the idiots that give them money. This is a pretty comprehensive list, and it really explains where the $250 million went, since all of the above went off without a hitch. Money's worth delivered!
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Jan 2, 2020 14:55
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I read somewhere on Reddit that CIG is doing 'staggered' development such that 3.8 is based off 3.6 rather than 3.7 so presumably most regressions from 3.7 are poorly resolved merge conflicts. Of course they are still capable of introducing brand new bugs like weapons growing beyond control but hey it would be funny if true.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:16
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LOL, what part of beta doesn't he understand? Perhaps the part where its not a beta but an alpha?
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Jan 2, 2020 15:18
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stingtwo posted:If I recall, there is an RTV/ATV episode where there is a discussion them somehow fixing a bug with no knowledge on how or what fixed it. That is all you need to know how much they know about game development. To be fiar, that's not that uncommon in software development. I myself have commented code with "Don't touch ever. Fixed bug. No idea how. Touching will break it!"
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Jan 2, 2020 15:20
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eXXon posted:I read somewhere on Reddit that CIG is doing 'staggered' development such that 3.8 is based off 3.6 rather than 3.7 so presumably most regressions from 3.7 are poorly resolved merge conflicts. Of course they are still capable of introducing brand new bugs like weapons growing beyond control but hey it would be funny if true. I doubt any of it matters, since the version numbers are made up in order to facilitate stealing more money, and have no relation to the actual code.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:22
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Reminds me of how every Battlefield game reintroduces fixed bugs when they release the next one, because each game starts from a fork of the frostbite engine from before the bug was fixed.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:40
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eXXon posted:I read somewhere on Reddit that CIG is doing 'staggered' development such that 3.8 is based off 3.6 rather than 3.7 so presumably most regressions from 3.7 are poorly resolved merge conflicts. Of course they are still capable of introducing brand new bugs like weapons growing beyond control but hey it would be funny if true. you have to be a really special kind of softhouse to even think of doing something that stupid then again it's CIG we're talking about
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Jan 2, 2020 15:41
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stingtwo posted:If I recall, there is an RTV/ATV episode where there is a discussion them somehow fixing a bug with no knowledge on how or what fixed it. That is all you need to know how much they know about game development. Was that the one where they were trying to debug carrying a box from the ground into the ship. That was hilarious, so many complicated 'spaces' to move it onto and try to reorientate.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:43
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I gotta ask - why is the physics grid thing so challenging/innovative? If you built your engine to actually include gravitational attraction, wouldn't that just do it? If you didn't want to go that hardcore, why not just create "fuzzy" physics volumes that have a soft transition zone between them? If you have two zones intersect you make their effects additive - so if you have one ship parked above another you get a combined gravity vector between the two, rather than having them fight for dominance like in SC's implementation. Like, I'm not a programmer but I am familiar with game development on the art and concept side and this is just seems like a duh thing to me.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:37
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UnknownTarget posted:I gotta ask - why is the physics grid thing so challenging/innovative? it's nothing special
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Jan 2, 2020 16:51
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If it was truly Open Development, shouldn't every Dev have a Twitch/Mixer account and be live streaming their progress? I would love to see Crobber working those opposable thumbs while regaling us with stories about pixels.
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Jan 2, 2020 17:01
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Dogeh posted:If it was truly Open Development, shouldn't every Dev have a Twitch/Mixer account and be live streaming their progress? Why do you need a 24/7 coke party stream from a yacht?
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Jan 2, 2020 17:29
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