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Played 4-player Container and 3-player Kemet tonight, along with a partial game of 2-player Inis. Container is hilarious; it's like a game of Root where everyone is playing the Otters. It's an odd duck, but I think a good one. It's a brain-burner but I can't quantify why and where decisions were good or bad. It contains lots of small economic decisions that drive the game flow punctuated by enormous game-changing blind bids. I definitely don't have my head wrapped around it. Kemet is still a good game, but the graphic design really shows it's age. It just looks like a busy mess compared to newer titles; it requires a lot of effort to hunt for all the different tokens on or around player boards or to distinguish power tiles from across the table. I don't really have mechanical complaints - it's still an extremely fast, extremely aggressive dudes on a map game that rewards both opportunism and strategic clarity - it's just harder to access than it should be. Inis has gotten a lot of praise from me in this thread, but I don't love the 2-player version. The politicking is, of course, gone, and with it goes most of the exquisite tension of the conflict mechanics. The drafting is incredibly cutthroat, but I don't find that as satisfying and organic as the constantly shifting dynamics in 3+ player games of Inis.
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Jan 1, 2020 11:29
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I think Kemet is cleaner than most modern DoaM games visually. Thinking of things like Lords of Hellas, Rising Sun, or even Root. Root is pretty efficient in visual design but still a lot to parse. Kemet isn’t the prettiest, but the visual design is built around clarity and function where I think it succeeds. The map is always clear, there isn’t an abundance of figures to track, and even victory point design is smart enough to show where players stand or are vulnerable at a glance. The iconography on the tiles and cards might take a full play to grasp but that is better than a lot of text everywhere in the end.
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Jan 1, 2020 11:44
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Well, for what it's worth, I think Lords of Hellas is an unmitigated garbage fire both visually and mechanically. 
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Jan 1, 2020 11:47
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nrook posted:I dunno. I’ve played a number of older games recently—power grid, modern art, the estates—and I got the inescapable impression that mid weight euros used to be hard, and now are complicated instead. It seems like that particular genre really has gone a little downhill. I always go back to Power Grid being the ideal of what a mid weight euro should be. The rules are simple, the gameplay is interactive, there's a catch up mechanism which you can game so everyone wants to engage with it. Everyone is playing the same game, not pushing different tracks to the same end etc. If you look at a new euro like Clans of Caledonia, which I like, the rules are really complex and you can easily play through the whole game and never interact with someone. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jan 1, 2020 |
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Jan 1, 2020 12:16
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I find Kemet really overproduced but at the same time there's no one element I can point to and say "this would be better with XYZ." It's just one of those games that's held back by the limitations of an analog format yet there's no solution that makes logistical sense to replace the tiles or tiny cards.
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Jan 1, 2020 15:59
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The only issue I've run into Kemet on the visual design side is players getting confused about the actual space distance between territories. The game board balances distance by twisting some territories, specifically the riverside territories, into elongated thin shapes. This can make distance on the map harder to read at times, especially if you are new to the game. I now point this out when teaching the game in order to avoid moments of: "I didn't realize you could reach me there."
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Jan 1, 2020 16:24
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al-azad posted:I find Kemet really overproduced but at the same time there's no one element I can point to and say "this would be better with XYZ." "This plastic Scorpion would be better as a standee."
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Jan 1, 2020 16:47
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Whenever I teach Kemet, I make certain to emphasize that the player cities are all equidistant. I've found the bigger hurdle for newbies is that all of the power tiles are technically accessible in the first round, so I try to point out the few most desired powers and tell everyone what my overall strategy is whenever I buy a tile (first game only, of course).
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Jan 1, 2020 17:53
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Aramoro posted:I always go back to Power Grid being the ideal of what a mid weight euro should be. The rules are simple, the gameplay is interactive, there's a catch up mechanism which you can game so everyone wants to engage with it. Everyone is playing the same game, not pushing different tracks to the same end etc. Seconding this, Power Grid is still good, and a great introduction to more complex board games for anyone new to your group. We still play it often.
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Jan 1, 2020 18:04
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So I got a couple of games over the holiday break, and one of them was Shobu. Holy poo poo, this game is amazing. It's basically a simple abstract game which I normally HATE, but this one is absolutely brilliant. It has the mechanics and play of a game that feels extremely old. I would simply describe it as 4d chess, as you battle across 4 small boards. You only need to win on 1 board, but every turn you must make the same exact move on 2 seperate boards each turn. This poo poo will melt your brain. The more you play, the more this game reveals itself. It's the best game I've played in the last year.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:42
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Dre2Dee2 posted:So I got a couple of games over the holiday break, and one of them was Shobu. Holy poo poo, this game is amazing. It's basically a simple abstract game which I normally HATE, but this one is absolutely brilliant. It has the mechanics and play of a game that feels extremely old. I would simply describe it as 4d chess, as you battle across 4 small boards. You only need to win on 1 board, but every turn you must make the same exact move on 2 seperate boards each turn. This poo poo will melt your brain. The more you play, the more this game reveals itself. It's the best game I've played in the last year. Yeah shobu is high on my list to play. I tried Tak, and it was fine, but nothing tremendous given that I'd much rather just play Shogi.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:46
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I liked Shobu alright but it didn’t seem to have the depth of Tak or even Onitama with the wind expansion or some of the more interesting Santorini gods. The mirrored moves is great, but the moves themselves never felt big or creative.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:46
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Bottom Liner posted:I liked Shobu alright but it didn’t seem to have the depth of Tak or even Onitama with the wind expansion or some of the more interesting Santorini gods. The mirrored moves is great, but the moves themselves never felt big or creative. I still think I'm missing something about Tak cuz I like Shobu a lot more than Tak and think the complete opposite of what you said. Albeit I haven't played Shobu that much yet so maybe it gets boring once you understand how to utilize empty space. If there is a game that'll drastically reduce our BFF game comparison, it might be this one. 
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Jan 2, 2020 02:49
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What are the best/most interesting Santorini gods?
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Jan 2, 2020 02:50
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I like them all except for Zeus and Chaos. We always play best of 3 with swapping gods each game. Tak is good because once a stack develops the possible moves explode and you can make big plays that the opponent didn't see coming. It's also way better on a 6x6 or larger (8x8 with 2 capstones is the "tournament" rules) because of said big moves happening more but not being immediate game over.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:17
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I'm a little late but Spirit Island and, well, anything
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Jan 2, 2020 03:30
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Krazyface posted:I'm a little late but Technically only works for distilled beverages.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:24
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Straight White Shark posted:Technically only works for distilled beverages. I think it works with things made worse by white people (i.e., anything).
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Jan 2, 2020 04:26
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Oh I've decided that the worst game is Red Dragon Inn.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:39
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CommonShore posted:Oh I've decided that the worst game is Red Dragon Inn. I second this, the entire game works on people being fair with ordering drinks for others, until a few people decide they don't like you and stack stuff on you and there's nothing you can do about it.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:41
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Recommend me a cardboard box with some design on it so my MTG stuff looks in place next to my regular games Standard game box size ish
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Jan 2, 2020 05:41
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PRADA SLUT posted:Recommend me a cardboard box with some design on it so my MTG stuff looks in place next to my regular games https://pranko.com/collections/prank-packs/hay-in-a-needle-stack/
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Jan 2, 2020 05:57
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Corbeau posted:Well, for what it's worth, I think Lords of Hellas is an unmitigated garbage fire both visually and mechanically. Considering it mostly borrows mechanisms from other games it might be suggested you're being hyperbolic.
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Jan 2, 2020 07:18
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Is Aeon's End any good? A German version was just announced and I quite like card games.
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Jan 2, 2020 11:32
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The End posted:Considering it mostly borrows mechanisms from other games it might be suggested you're being hyperbolic. If I created a game that borrowed the movement mechanic from Merlin, the financial resource system from FCM, the event deck from any number of games, the rondel, building and toll mechanics from GWT, and the theme from the Estates, pretty sure that game would be a pile.
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Jan 2, 2020 11:40
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Selecta84 posted:Is Aeon's End any good? I like it quite a bit. One of my favorite cooperative games and its legacy version is pretty well done.
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Jan 2, 2020 11:56
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What’s a good engine builder? our playgroup has fun with Wingspan and Gizmos, but the lack of player interaction wears on me a little. I suppose a game with a key mechanic of “assemble your table so that it can bring itself to orgasm” may not lend itself to high levels of player interactivity. FCM is an engine builder, right? But it’s a little unforgiving for our play group, which tends to tack toward slightly lighter fare. I’d love additional recs! Boxman fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 13:27
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Boxman posted:“assemble your table so that it can bring itself to orgasm” Well that's a hell of a way to describe it
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Jan 2, 2020 13:57
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Is there such a thing as interactive tutorials for board games? I feel like really big beefy games would be heaps easier to learn if there was an interactive tutorial (like in a videogame) that shows you what you can and cannot do, whilst letting you sort of play through it. I picked up 7 Wonders Duel and made so many mistakes that lost myself (or my opponent) the game, as I either misinterpreted the rules or outright forgot them - and this is a diddly game in the grand scheme of things! This can obviously be fixed by reading the rulebook properly, but sometimes it's hard to keep that much information fresh in your head without making a few mistakes. The other way is to play and constantly reference the rulebook, but this slows your first game down to the point where it can be a little unfun, especially if you're trying to hook your girlfriend into it. There have been some close calls where she doesn't want to play a game again because the first game was so slow, but then we give it another shot and have a blast. I've been playing the beefy games slowly against the Automa opponent first, so when I introduce new people to it, I can sort of explain it all simply without needing to go back to the rulebook. I've also purchased the videogame version of Scythe, so I'm hoping that'll help cement the rules in my head a little more. Then there's the other option of sitting through hours of playthroughs on youtube at 2x speed until everything sort of sticks. Which is alright, but time consuming. It's how I learnt Gaia Project and made it a much smoother transition into the first game.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:01
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Wasn't it XCOM that basically got rid of the rulebook almost entirely? I seem to remember that setup and tutorial were handled by an app, so to learn the game you didn't even need to read the rulebook. Obviously that's not a solution that works for everyone since it requires to build an app, which is lots of extra work. Some wargames (ie GMT games) have playbooks that features extensive examples of play, which they encourage you to play through. Root also has a standard setup and 1 round tutorial that runs you through everything you need to know for the first turn as well.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:06
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Fog of Love has a great built-in tutorial as well. The best to hope for in general are just good examples.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:11
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Anyone know any good PnP solo games? I was recommended Deadball which seems kind of like a stripped-down version of Strat-o-matic Baseball. But I really like the idea of something I can just print out and start playing with a few dice.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:30
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I thought I was in wargame chat for a second when I saw COOL CORN posting back to back.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:33
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Tekopo posted:Some wargames (ie GMT games) have playbooks that features extensive examples of play, which they encourage you to play through. Root also has a standard setup and 1 round tutorial that runs you through everything you need to know for the first turn as well. Extensive examples of gameplay are lifesavers. So often, you'll read a rulebook and think you have it figured out, but then you start playing your first game and so many questions pop up. It's really frustrating when you go to read up on it and there's no example of what to do in that situation. Board Game Geek is great for this, forums usually have the same questions asked and sometimes a dev will personally comment on it. Hoping there was some website that had interactive tutorials for a bunch of games was a bit of a pipe dream, but you never know.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:52
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Qubee posted:Is there such a thing as interactive tutorials for board games? Space Alert has an on boarding process that involves three or four mini-games of slowly increasing difficulty, with concepts getting added in each time. Not a full blown interactive tutorial, but a definite example of curated increasing complexity that video games are very good at.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:57
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Gloomhaven: Subtitle is meant to have an actual tutorial / teaching process over the first few scenarios too.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:58
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Selecta84 posted:Is Aeon's End any good? Best coop deckbuilder imo Boxman posted:What’s a good engine builder? our playgroup has fun with Wingspan and Gizmos, but the lack of player interaction wears on me a little. I suppose a game with a key mechanic of “assemble your table so that it can bring itself to orgasm” may not lend itself to high levels of player interactivity. My fav engine builder is Race for the Galaxy. The player interaction is indirect, but it's there. Each turn each player simultaneously lays down a card out of 5 phases (explore, make a development, settle a planet, trade/consume goods, produce goods). Only the phases that are played are executed, and the player that played each gets a bonus during that phase. So if you can read your opponent correctly and predict what they'll play, you can get more productive turns, or screw over your opponent's turn. If you want a more direct interaction one, Evolution: Climate lets your engines eat each other. And you are all competing for a common source of food and can bring other opponents' species to starvation/extinction. And you can manipulate the climate to bring forth an ice age or heat wave to your advantage. Llyranor fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 15:04
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Boxman posted:Space Alert has an on boarding process that involves three or four mini-games of slowly increasing difficulty, with concepts getting added in each time. Not a full blown interactive tutorial, but a definite example of curated increasing complexity that video games are very good at. Glad I asked now, this is a game I've been planning on picking up. Even more so now that I know the entry into it is gentle. Speaking of, does it have a high replayability value?
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Jan 2, 2020 15:07
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With the (unofficial) app and the (official) expansion, yeah. The app makes random tracks that you can adjust for difficulty and the expansion gives even harder threats and a campaign mode.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:08
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Chill la Chill posted:I thought I was in wargame chat for a second when I saw COOL CORN posting back to back. My 2020 goal is to branch out
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Jan 2, 2020 15:23
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