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Vegetable posted:Did you tell the recruiter that full story? I mean yeah your old boss was a total dick but his story isn’t inaccurate. Having agreed to cancel your vacation you then took it without notice. Katt posted:This is Sweden So that changes a lot. But if it was in the US I would definitely appreciate that someone was honest and honestly explaining a situation like that like Katt did with mainly giving the facts (a lot of people would try to paint a Villain vs Saint which would raise red flags). He said he put in the vacation notice with plenty of time and it got approved so I am not super concerned about "How would you deal with this in the future", but I'd want to make sure it wasn't part of a larger history of having problems working within a team. Nothing Katt has said has indicated it would be. poo poo happens and bad managers exist, an occurrence like this isn't a huge red flag. A string of "I left because my manager was a dick" definitely is a thing though. This thread is generally pessimistic, but the truth is I've never worked with any manager who didn't want people taking their PTO. Burn out is real and most of us are straight-up goaled on retention. Working people to where they quit is usually a really bad, expensive thing and managers try to avoid it. So there's nothing wrong with someone saying they left because they didn't get their allotted PTO (and in Europe this is like 10x more relevant).
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Dec 13, 2019 18:38
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Lockback posted:This thread is generally pessimistic, but the truth is I've never worked with any manager who didn't want people taking their PTO. Burn out is real and most of us are straight-up goaled on retention. Working people to where they quit is usually a really bad, expensive thing and managers try to avoid it. So there's nothing wrong with someone saying they left because they didn't get their allotted PTO (and in Europe this is like 10x more relevant). It's double expensive because when you work/frustrate people into quitting, the people who quit first are the people who have other options--i.e. your best people. I think you're drat fortunate to have never worked for a petty tyrant manager though.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:19
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For more details this was a painting/decorating company. It had about 12 workers of which one was the owner. It had in total 2 painters with journeyman's licenses of which I was one. The owner never took his journeyman's license. He insisted on hiring more and more cheaper laborers and have them do the work and then sending the Journeyman painters to fix it afterwards. This sort of work was hell on us because we also had our own work to take care of, and fixing someone else s work is just not something you ask of a journeyman on sheer principle. Most of the laborers had extremely limited experience and no training but were left to work unsupervised with the understanding that after inspection the protocol would be given to a journeyman to fix afterwards. In our business companies are supposed to only have journeyman workers period. At legitimate companies laborers are pretty rare and under the collective bargaining deal laborers are not supposed to paint at all but instead do limited and simple support work. A company can also have apprentices (maximum 1 apprentice per 7 journeymen) Less serious companies will have fewer journeymen and more laborers/apprentices because they are cheaper. After I quit I started my own business and ran that for a few years. I then used my companys money to take night time classes in courses like business finance, law, bookkeeping, ledgers etc. Since I could file all of those as business expenses they were a lot cheaper this way. I then used the degrees I earned and the experience gained to apply for a job as a calculator at a third party company that calculates expenses on major construction projects. Because I wanted to get away from physical work while I still had my health. The pay is also about 50% higher and the benefits fantastic. Which is the job is just got. Despite my old bosses best efforts.
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Dec 14, 2019 00:45
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I know this a complex question with a lot of qualifiers, but how long should I continue a job hunt before just taking an entry level position so I don't have a long gap on my resume? I spent around the last ten years in middle and upper management roles working in non-profit Social Services, and right now I feel like I can't get a call back for positions that are considerably lower in responsibility and pay than my previous jobs. I left my last job and moved out of the area after my wife got her doctorate and secured a much higher paying position than I was earning in the nonprofit field. Buuut her job is in an expensive part of California and we could only afford to live in a more rural area with a large Spanish speaking population. Unsurprisingly just about every social services position here requires applicants to be bilingual, and I haven't even bothered applying to those. My options at this point seem to be taking a long break to become fluent in Spanish (and I don't know how competitive I'll be against native speakers), taking an entry level position, or finding a position with a 2 hour commute (please no). Our money is tight but not critical right now, I'm more concerned about my long term job prospects, and how discouraged the whole process is making me.
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Dec 14, 2019 01:00
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Apply to the bilingual positions, it may not be a deal breaker at all with your experience and background. It's possible you are applying to low of positions to be taken seriously. Check cal government jobs for anything that could be relevant.
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Dec 14, 2019 02:41
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ClothHat posted:I know this a complex question with a lot of qualifiers, but how long should I continue a job hunt before just taking an entry level position so I don't have a long gap on my resume? I spent around the last ten years in middle and upper management roles working in non-profit Social Services, and right now I feel like I can't get a call back for positions that are considerably lower in responsibility and pay than my previous jobs. How long is your gap right now? The move and story is a good tale, but yeah, it sounds like you're in a tough spot. If you took a job with a long commute could you guys possibly move later to split the difference/have good mass transit options? A long commute is a lot easier if you only need to do it for a few months.
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Dec 14, 2019 06:15
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Goodpancakes posted:Apply to the bilingual positions, it may not be a deal breaker at all with your experience and background. It's possible you are applying to low of positions to be taken seriously. Check cal government jobs for anything that could be relevant. Can anyone else confirm if this is a good idea? I've been reading about overinflated job requirements, and seeing plenty myself; but this seems like such a basic part of the position that if I came in for an interview and dropped this I would just annoy everyone involved for wasting their time, and that would be it. I've been applying to the gov jobs and made it to the final rounds for one, but they have a very long turnaround. I think the last one had a 7 month period between applying and being turned down. Lockback posted:How long is your gap right now? The move and story is a good tale, but yeah, it sounds like you're in a tough spot. If you took a job with a long commute could you guys possibly move later to split the difference/have good mass transit options? A long commute is a lot easier if you only need to do it for a few months. It's been close to six months, though it is the only gap I have in my resume in about 15 years. Moving would be tough because we sold our last home and bought one here when we moved. I was under the impression you have to wait to sell your home for 2 years in California to avoid some ugly taxes (but I'm open to hearing that I'm mistaken here!). My wife would kill me if I suggested this, but I think your suggestion might be my best option if we get more desperate. Mass transit options are just the bus. I seriously considered that since it's way easier on my back then driving, but it would make a commute around 3-3.5 hours.
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Dec 16, 2019 22:16
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My experience is that if bilingual is listed as a job requirement then it is a hard requirement. You might get by with "I took Spanish in college and am not really fluent but I can follow along a bit and will definitely brush up" but you won't get by with "I don't know any language but English at all." YMMV. A lot of listings say "bilingual preferred" which usually indicates not a hard requirement and you should go ahead and apply, but you'll still be handicapped relative to candidates who are bilingual.
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Dec 16, 2019 22:57
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Just be upfront about it on your cover letter/email. No harm done if they pass over you, but you may get a bite based on your experience and you could use more chances in your situation
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Dec 16, 2019 23:36
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Eric the Mauve posted:My experience is that if bilingual is listed as a job requirement then it is a hard requirement. You might get by with "I took Spanish in college and am not really fluent but I can follow along a bit and will definitely brush up" but you won't get by with "I don't know any language but English at all." YMMV. Apply and explain in your cover letter.
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Dec 16, 2019 23:55
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If you don't apply nothing will happen. If you apply, maybe something happens. Unless you've got something else to use your time on, why not just reach out and see? Maybe too they refer you to other jobs or people, if they like you but absolutely need Spanish.
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Dec 17, 2019 16:17
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Today on the lovely recruiter front: quote:In order to proceed ASAP, please confirm that you: Bonus points for advertising the job 40mins from the actual business. I loving hate job hunting. Honey Im Homme fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 01:42
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So I have an upcoming interview for a position that is pretty promising, but the interview setup seems weird. I'm going to be meeting with 6 different people in succession for half an hour each which seems like I'll be answering the same question a lot of times. Anyone have any experience with interviews like this and advice at how to keep my answers from sounding stale the sixth time?
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Dec 20, 2019 04:04
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neaden posted:So I have an upcoming interview for a position that is pretty promising, but the interview setup seems weird. I'm going to be meeting with 6 different people in succession for half an hour each which seems like I'll be answering the same question a lot of times. Anyone have any experience with interviews like this and advice at how to keep my answers from sounding stale the sixth time? This setup has been pretty normal in my limited experience (for tech jobs). Either individuals or groups of 2 (or rarely 3) for 30 minutes to an hour each. I assume so they don't have to give up much of their day. They won't know what you told the people before you, by the end you should have a polished presentation for those questions. Fine tune as needed if you get a bad or good reaction to something. I don't feel like it's stale because I'm in the groove by then, and they have no idea. Anyway, they won't all ask the same things and you can spin things in different directions if you know a certain person is interested in something. Some places split up areas of questioning between the interviewers, that also reduces duplication. taqueso fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Dec 20, 2019 |
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Dec 20, 2019 04:10
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neaden posted:So I have an upcoming interview for a position that is pretty promising, but the interview setup seems weird. I'm going to be meeting with 6 different people in succession for half an hour each which seems like I'll be answering the same question a lot of times. Anyone have any experience with interviews like this and advice at how to keep my answers from sounding stale the sixth time? It sucks and I tell my other management teams not to do that because everyone really just asks the same thing for the first 15 minutes. Hiring is super important, find the drat time. My advice to you, the candidate, is to have really polished, tight answers to some standard questions "Why do you want to work here", "What experience do you have with <KEY_THINGS_COMPANY_DOES>?" If you know you have some real weaknesses, have some good responses there that can hold up without much digging (ie, don't outright lie but use phrases like "I have exposure to those technologies", "I've worked with that and really liked it!", etc.) They won't have time to deep dive so you can usually skim across the surface if you have something prepared. Don't get rattled and DO NOT show boredom even if its the dumbest interview in the world. In 30 minutes people will only really remember a couple things, so if you can crack a good joke or make a good point you've probably won that round.
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Dec 20, 2019 17:44
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Is there a chance that past applications can hurt consideration for other jobs at the same company? I've had 4 applications in to a company over 2 months, and my most recent one was rejected within hours. I'm tailoring my materials to each position, but I feel like they're picking up on the desperation.
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Dec 20, 2019 22:03
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Baronash posted:Is there a chance that past applications can hurt consideration for other jobs at the same company? I've had 4 applications in to a company over 2 months, and my most recent one was rejected within hours. I'm tailoring my materials to each position, but I feel like they're picking up on the desperation. How big of a company? I'm guessing the same reasons they said no the first time is why they keep saying no. Smaller company then yeah, they probably keep noticing you keep applying. Larger company they may not depending on if these resumes are going to different orgs or not.
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Dec 20, 2019 22:27
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Eric the Mauve posted:My experience is that if bilingual is listed as a job requirement then it is a hard requirement. You might get by with "I took Spanish in college and am not really fluent but I can follow along a bit and will definitely brush up" but you won't get by with "I don't know any language but English at all." YMMV. Goodpancakes posted:Just be upfront about it on your cover letter/email. No harm done if they pass over you, but you may get a bite based on your experience and you could use more chances in your situation Thank you for the advice, I've been putting out cover letters with a variation of Eric the Muave's first quote on it for Spanish required positions. It's not an offer yet, but I'm getting interviews after doing that.
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Dec 21, 2019 00:29
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For what it's worth, if you live somewhere that English/Spanish bilinguality is a frequent requirement then strongly consider spending the time and money on becoming fluent in Spanish. It can be a game changer in some careers. (and bilinguality is getting increasingly important in most of the US)
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Dec 21, 2019 00:40
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A friend of mine that is an interpreter gets recruiters begging him to apply for bilingual jobs in all kinds of engineering fields that he isn't qualified for but has superficial experience in from interpreting. I imagine it depends on the language how in demand it is, but international companies really value people that can do a job and communicate with them and the locals. Running everything through an interpreter/translator really slows things down. And they are saving money on an interpreter so they can afford to pay you more (ideally anyway).
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Dec 21, 2019 00:58
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Baronash posted:Is there a chance that past applications can hurt consideration for other jobs at the same company? I've had 4 applications in to a company over 2 months, and my most recent one was rejected within hours. I'm tailoring my materials to each position, but I feel like they're picking up on the desperation. I actually had one guy submit resumes to every posting I had. After a couple rejections, he changed his name and started putting his middle name on the resumes. I don't recommend doing that.
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Dec 21, 2019 13:31
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neaden posted:So I have an upcoming interview for a position that is pretty promising, but the interview setup seems weird. I'm going to be meeting with 6 different people in succession for half an hour each which seems like I'll be answering the same question a lot of times. Anyone have any experience with interviews like this and advice at how to keep my answers from sounding stale the sixth time? I did an all day interview with 6 people and had almost no overlapping questions. One was a business guy, another my manager, one a materials SME, another an anodizing SME, etc. Agree with Lock acts advice regardless of if they execute it well (like mine did) or ask you all the same questions. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Dec 22, 2019 |
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Dec 22, 2019 03:28
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It’s fun to nail interviews
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Dec 23, 2019 05:57
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I'm not really sure where to put this, but this seems like the appropriate place. Recently I've been trying to get an IT job in a completely different country. To prepare I took language classes, focused more on coding during my current job. I'm okay at both now. Can have regular conversations with the natives and write decent code that compiles without (too many) errors. After sending out hundreds of applications for jobs that I 80%/100% fit the requirements for, one of the companies got back to me. They want to set something up, give me an coding challenge and test my knowledge of their language. So I decided to re-read exactly what they're expecting of me and while I do feel like I could possibly pass those tests, there is a decent enough chance of failure. In theory, I could pass the challenge if I started brushing up my skills every day until the interview... Their mail, however, said that if I want to change my application to a different opening that may fit my skills better, then that's possible. After giving their career page another look through, I found something similar that I do meet all the requirements for except experience (They want someone with 5 years, I got 3.5). So I'm kinda wondering what would be the best step to take. Risk loving up the interview for the difficult position or try to apply for the other position and hope I can convince them the 1.5 experience gap that I'm missing won't be a hindrance. Would switching applications pop more red flags?
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Dec 24, 2019 13:00
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If you have 100% of the skills listed on the resume aside from the 5 years of experience thing, they're probably not going to care about being 1.5 years short. As far as switching applications goes, I once interviewed for a full-time position and during the interview they basically told me I wouldn't get it but they could forward my resume to a similar contract position. I ended up getting the contract position and was hired full-time less than a year later into a position that was equivalent in title and pay to the one I originally interviewed for. This poo poo can work out sometimes.
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Dec 24, 2019 16:19
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Archer666 posted:I'm not really sure where to put this, but this seems like the appropriate place. 5 years experience is something HR slaps on every one of my job postings. I'll take any recent relevant experience in lieu of 5 years. I suspect most places are the same.
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Dec 27, 2019 05:50
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I accepted a job last week and I start at the beginning of February. Meanwhile a different job invited me in for an interview tomorrow. Job 2 is slightly more centered on my interests. Both would likely pay about the same. Cost of living would be slightly cheaper in Job 2. Long term career is likely slightly better at job 2. I am excited for job 1 and job 2. I will interview tomorrow for job 2 and reevaluate if I move along in the process. Thread: please tell me if this is appropriate or not. I feel like I should stick with job 1. “Dance with the gal that brought ya” and all that. But if that’s the case then I feel like I should not bother interviewing at job 2. E: job 1 is permanent after a probationary period. Job 2 is a 12 month term but basically everyone gets hired permanent after that.
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Jan 2, 2020 02:45
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Interviewing at Job 2 is fine. If nothing else it'll re-enforce what your market looks like. If you do quit Job 1 quickly it will probably burn you at that company, which depending on the industry can have ramifications. It's such a pain to have to restart the hiring process, and it dings the hiring manager's retention rate, so if someone tells me "Yeah that guy quit after like 2 weeks" it would be a huge red mark if I am considering hiring him. That's not, like, a moral argument not to do it but I'm just explaining why there are effects on that. It happens though. Usually I tell people to do it if the 2nd job is considerably better. I'm not sure if that's true here and if there are truly a push I'd honestly probably nudge you in the direction of going with Job1 just so you don't burn a bridge. Up to you though.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:15
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Thank your for the perspective and points to think about. They are both public sector jobs. Job 2 is for a major metro and job 1 is for a smaller suburb community about 20 minutes away. So they aren’t the same organization but the public sector folk in my field often kind of move between the communities in the greater region. So some minor amount of risk. Lots to think about.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:41
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Also it’s like a 2.5 hour drive each way. Would it be burning bridges to cancel the interview the day of? I know there will be other candidates because they reserved so many time slots.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:58
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5 hours of driving sucks but I would still take the interview even if burning bridges wasn't a consideration. Taking interviews is almost always +EV. It helps you gauge your market value and it helps you practice the skill of interviewing. Separately answering your actual question, if you wanted to cancel it you should have done it at least a few days before, yeah. I wouldn't call it burning a bridge but look at it from their perspective, a day-of cancellation is always annoying.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:35
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Also it’s like a 2.5 hour drive each way. Cancelling an interview is fine. I much prefer people do that than come in and spend both our time on something they aren't interested. A couple days ahead is better but still. That said, even if you don't think you'd take the job but still want to test the water, that's fine. Don't feel bad about doing that. Eric the Mauve posted:5 hours of driving sucks but I would still take the interview even if burning bridges wasn't a consideration. Taking interviews is almost always +EV. It helps you gauge your market value and it helps you practice the skill of interviewing. Basically this.
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Jan 2, 2020 05:02
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Eric the Mauve posted:5 hours of driving sucks but I would still take the interview even if burning bridges wasn't a consideration. Taking interviews is almost always +EV. It helps you gauge your market value and it helps you practice the skill of interviewing. I've known people that have taken flights to interviews they weren't serious about pursuing. A few turned it into a long weekend vacation and got to experience a city they hadn't been in and/or were considering moving to anyways. And at least one ended up taking the job and moving across the country for it (was worth the money/compensation/etc).
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Jan 2, 2020 06:17
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amethystdragon posted:I've known people that have taken flights to interviews they weren't serious about pursuing. I did this and ended up taking the job.
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Jan 2, 2020 14:46
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Should I even bother with tech recruiters? Multiple firms have pointed me at a single listing that I unceremoniously received a rejection letter from on new years. If I don't even know where I'm being applied to and when would I be better off just going on by myself?
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Jan 2, 2020 18:40
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Dork457 posted:Should I even bother with tech recruiters? Multiple firms have pointed me at a single listing that I unceremoniously received a rejection letter from on new years. If I don't even know where I'm being applied to and when would I be better off just going on by myself? I don’t bother with them myself after humouring them in the past to the point of coming into their offices to meet with them. All I got out of that was some substandard coffee. The turnover rate for recruiting firms is so high the person you’re talking to in January probably won’t be with the company by June and will be out of the industry altogether by December. So there’s really no point to “building a relationship” or whatever other nonsense they say. I’ve been working in the tech industry for almost 20 years now across several jobs and I have gotten a meaningful interview only once through a third party recruiter (all over the phone for that one). Everything else was mostly through contacts or tracking down the actual hiring manager through other means to get the resume to him directly. Tl;dr: third party recruiters are a useless time suck imo
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Jan 2, 2020 18:51
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On the other side I have hire a lot through one firm where I have a really high % of people they sent me vs I've interviewed. They've took their time to actually figure out what I'm looking for and generally find the right types of profiles. They are way better than any other that I've used. So if you're using sucky ones, you can also try your hand somewhere else. Also, using a recruiter shouldn't preclude you from looking for jobs on your own.
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Jan 2, 2020 18:59
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Yeah I’m sure there are good ones I’m probably being too harsh tbh
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Jan 2, 2020 19:02
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Recruiters are just as subject to Sturgeon's Law as anything else. Plus the additional problem that the bad ones are the ones that carpetbomb, so 99.9% of the emails you get are from the 90% of recruiters who are poo poo.
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Jan 2, 2020 20:02
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priznat posted:Yeah I’m sure there are good ones I’m probably being too harsh tbh
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Jan 3, 2020 03:38
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