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Katt posted:It matters because Labour has to to keep Boris from Iraq 2.0ing this thing and in this particular case Corbyn is probably the most compromised person available to spearhead the effort. How do Labour keep Boris from doing this. Let's have some details, not the handwaving bullshit you've been serving up for the last 2 pages e: fucks sake 
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Jan 4, 2020 17:58
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First, Corbyn needs to win on December 12
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Jan 4, 2020 18:00
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Katt posted:It matters because Labour has to to keep Boris from Iraq 2.0ing this thing and in this particular case Corbyn is probably the most compromised person available to spearhead the effort. Labour can't, mate. Corbyn saying or not saying a thing won't change that.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:07
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Tesseraction posted:First, Corbyn needs to win on December 12 The road to a peaceful future starts now, and from somewhere else
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Jan 4, 2020 18:08
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Shocking thought: What if Trump forces the UK into helping with invading Iran as part of the Brexit trade deal?
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Jan 4, 2020 18:08
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happyhippy posted:Shocking thought: What if Trump forces the UK into helping with invading Iran as part of the Brexit trade deal? lol at you thinking johnson needs an excuse to go tongue first into the american arse
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Jan 4, 2020 18:11
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Katt posted:No but he shouldn't be spearheading the whole effort. He should take a step back and let Labour and other Labour figures be the main driving force. he's the leader of the opposition, seems like a pretty reasonable choice to be spearheading the opposition response to me e: funny how the people who wanted Corbyn to "show leadership" in the runup to the election are also now criticising him for doing so 
Julio Cruz fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 18:11
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happyhippy posted:Shocking thought: What if Trump forces the UK into helping with invading Iran as part of the Brexit trade deal? I see the UK's position like 
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Jan 4, 2020 18:15
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Julio Cruz posted:he's the leader of the opposition, seems like a pretty reasonable choice to be spearheading the opposition response to me Literally anything Corbyn might say can be responded to by Johnson with "I think the British people have made their view clear who they want to be making these decisions on their behalf". The election result is a complete get-out-of-jail free card and that's why defeated leaders traditionally step aside quickly.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:21
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Hey UK Hello! Trump here. Love you guys, and I know you guys love me. Just talked with your Prime Minister Boris here, great man, wonderful and strong. And we have agreed a HUGE trade deal. Massive. A great deal. We, the US, will send you lot our Pink Slime cheap. So cheap. And in return, Boris. Great man. Has agreed to send your soldiers to Iran to become Pink Slime. Thank you.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:34
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The opposition choice comes down to a) Abet the tories, look weak and end up on the wrong side of history 2 decades from now. "Doing a Harman", if you will. b) Oppose the tories and be ridiculed as cowards now, then end up on the right side of history. That Corbyn has chosen option b should come as no surprise. He's done the unpopular but principled thing for basically his entire political career. The short term outcome is inevitable though. Opposition parties don't make policy. We're off to war.
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Jan 4, 2020 18:36
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Alchenar posted:Literally anything Corbyn might say can be responded to by Johnson with "I think the British people have made their view clear who they want to be making these decisions on their behalf". The election result is a complete get-out-of-jail free card and that's why defeated leaders traditionally step aside quickly. 
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Jan 4, 2020 18:41
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Have they asked Jo Swinson? I know her answer would be to vitrify Persia, but has anyone cared enough to even ask?
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Jan 4, 2020 18:52
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Who Swinson
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Jan 4, 2020 19:04
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I'm very  at this thread thinking we'll be involved in a conflict with Iran, The British Army and Military in general are in a sorry state post warfighting in Afghanistan and cuts from the current Tory government. We committed 43k troops for Iraq 2.0 we were roughly over the 100k mark, we are down to around 72k troops but that counts people who haven't even done their trade training. We don't have the capability to add anything decent with our current commitments around the globe, QE is still on sea trials and doubt it could be pushed forward.
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Jan 4, 2020 19:14
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You don't think that Boris Johnson will gleefully commit Britain to doing something that it lacks the infrastructure and general capability to do and would be a disaster whether it could or not?
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Jan 4, 2020 19:27
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MonkeyLibFront posted:I'm very
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Jan 4, 2020 19:29
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MonkeyLibFront posted:I'm very HMS Brenda has gone beyond her sea trials and is on the last steps of operational trials hence the launch of an F-35B from the flight deck while she's berthed at Portsmouth before Christmas, she should be combat ready by the autumn. HMS Bastard Offspring's about three years behind
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Jan 4, 2020 19:30
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MonkeyLibFront posted:I'm very I don't think we have the capability either, I just don't know whether that would stop big brain boris.
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Jan 4, 2020 19:30
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MonkeyLibFront posted:I'm very Isn't this just what we do though, overcommitting and chasing that prestige and clout even though we're massively underresourced, trying to roll with the big boys who are just going "m8 wtf are you even doing"? And that's before we were brexiting and desperately trying to prove we've STILL GOT IT
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Jan 4, 2020 19:32
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Guavanaut posted:Have they asked Jo Swinson?
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Jan 4, 2020 19:35
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Yeah we will participate in the Iran war no matter how embarrassingly small our contribution is. Remember in Libya when Cameron was doing his war leader statesman routine, Great Britain still striding the world like a colossus, and there were like two British planes taking part.
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Jan 4, 2020 19:38
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quote:Britain's military overextension in the war on terror is the result of an imperial hangover that has blighted foreign policy since 1945, historian Correlli Barnett will tell a conference at Cambridge University this afternoon. quote:In his opening remarks, the historian will argue that leading figures in Whitehall and Westminster have been exaggerating Britain's importance in the world since before 1945. *boris johnson picture*
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Jan 4, 2020 19:38
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:HMS Brenda has gone beyond her sea trials and is on the last steps of operational trials hence the launch of an F-35B from the flight deck while she's berthed at Portsmouth before Christmas, she should be combat ready by the autumn. HMS Bastard Offspring's about three years behind Autumn's looking very generous, I wouldn't be surprised as a small carrier group wouldn't be deployable till early 21, I'm not too clued up on the delivery timeline of the F35 and when an Air Wing would be available and pilots being rated for carrier landings, I'm assuming that's why we've had a hefty pilot exchange program with the US in order to keep people current. A Buttery Pastry posted:Why do you assume it has to be decent for you to participate? That's never stopped the vast majority of the countries joining American military adventures. Certain parts of frontline equipment are in such a sorry state it would fail before your crossed the line of departure and recent kicking the can down the road in terms of life extension programs have not helped. I'm all for making do and cracking on, but we did that with a fairly well supplied and trained force in 2003 and cracks showed with that in terms of body armour and communication equipment, we've gone 180 and now the big ticket machinery of war are for a better term 'hosed'.
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Jan 4, 2020 19:45
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Guavanaut posted:They have religious leaders that are qualified to sit in their Upper House just because they're religious leaders of the state religion. How many Lords Spiritual are there anyway?
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Jan 4, 2020 19:55
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26Bobby Deluxe posted:I'm imagining Chuka Umanu descending Apocalypse Now style into the heart of cheshire to find Jo;, now worshipped by a fubpee cult of guerilla squirrel murderers. Heart of Caithness. MonkeyLibFront posted:I'm all for making do and cracking on, but we did that with a fairly well supplied and trained force in 2003 and cracks showed with that in terms of body armour and communication equipment, we've gone 180 and now the big ticket machinery of war are for a better term 'hosed'.
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Jan 4, 2020 19:56
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Beefeater1980 posted:How many Lords Spiritual are there anyway? 26, all CofE bishops.
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Jan 4, 2020 20:04
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How come no-one has posted Chuka tweets recently? Considering how he won his seat with the overwhelming majority he predicted I'd thought we'd all be focued on him...
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Jan 4, 2020 20:10
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Alchenar posted:Literally anything Corbyn might say can be responded to by Johnson with "I think the British people have made their view clear who they want to be making these decisions on their behalf". The election result is a complete get-out-of-jail free card and that's why defeated leaders traditionally step aside quickly. why should we give the tiniest poo poo what Boris might say as of right now Corbyn is still the party leader, he's 100% right to make a statement on the situation
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Jan 4, 2020 20:10
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Looks like gen z gets to have an Iraq war moment
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Jan 4, 2020 20:21
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MonkeyLibFront posted:Autumn's looking very generous, I wouldn't be surprised as a small carrier group wouldn't be deployable till early 21, I'm not too clued up on the delivery timeline of the F35 and when an Air Wing would be available and pilots being rated for carrier landings, I'm assuming that's why we've had a hefty pilot exchange program with the US in order to keep people current. Sending the Brenda into the Gulf would be a suicide mission (as would having her within 150 miles of the Iranian coast without a massive, presumably American, screening force). Even with a full complement the F35B is so gimped that at that range it'll be unable to do anything we can't already do from Iraq- or Turkey-based Typhoons or drones, so she'll get sent out, bounce around the Arabian Sea, and we'll get to say what a great success she is. Meanwhile we'll send in whatever special forces we have available (probably in American planes and boats because guess what we also don't have) and spark off another bunch of lovely books, then the regular Army will get to play dodge-the-IED for a while somewhere in the mountains and all the usual suspects will get massive contracts to replace the broken kit that killed them in the first place, and everyone's happy.
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Jan 4, 2020 20:28
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Nah, you can definitely use Brenda for use as an amphibious transport dock for land troops to deploy via chopper if they wanted, the hanger's big enough and can be configured for it. It would just be a loving pointless exercise
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Jan 4, 2020 20:34
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And that's going to be February's thread title.
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Jan 4, 2020 20:39
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I feel like choppers flying low in/near Iranian airspace would be A Very Bad Move
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Jan 4, 2020 20:42
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So a totally Boris thing to agree to then
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Jan 4, 2020 20:44
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:Nah, you can definitely use Brenda for use as an amphibious transport dock for land troops to deploy via chopper if they wanted, the hanger's big enough and can be configured for it Well yes, if we had enough choppers to make that feasible. We don't. We also don't really have the transport ships to get the troops there, and we don't have the capability to sequester cruise liners to do the job like we did in the Falklands. For all the pretensions of having a blue-water navy, we're somehow even less capable of force projection than we were in 1982, and this time we're talking about fighting an actual modern force that is up for the fight.
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Jan 4, 2020 20:47
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:So a totally Boris thing to agree to then sure but the army isn't going to agree to it, this isn't the charge of the Light Brigade
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Jan 4, 2020 20:48
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So, I'd considered voting for Starmer in the leadership election but after his tepid response to Trump's latest piece of stupidity, I'm gonna be RLB all the way. gently caress 5 years of Johnson wrecking poo poo while Starmer opines that : "Now is not the time to be dragging politics into this."
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Jan 4, 2020 20:50
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Well yes, if we had enough choppers to make that feasible. We don't. We also don't really have the transport ships to get the troops there, and we don't have the capability to sequester cruise liners to do the job like we did in the Falklands. For all the pretensions of having a blue-water navy, we're somehow even less capable of force projection than we were in 1982, and this time we're talking about fighting an actual modern force that is up for the fight. The US spends as much as the entire UK government budget every year on the DoD. They'll be doing the heavy lifting and as usual the UK will sail around waving the flag pretending to help while we get a bunch of light infantry (the only thing that we are actually still good at) killed doing security work.
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Jan 4, 2020 21:01
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goddamnedtwisto posted:all the usual suspects will get massive contracts to replace the broken kit that killed them in the first place, and everyone's happy. Not only them, but big construction firms literally rubbing their hands in glee at the reconstruction contracts they think they'll get once we've smashed the place up (I saw this actually happen - quite literally - in an office we shared with a large construction firm).
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Jan 4, 2020 21:04
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