|
Wow, that was a lot to process. It felt a little Moffat-lite and I'm not entirely sure I understood all of what was going on, but I enjoyed the experience and I'll put it down as the best episodes that Chibnall's written so far. I'm surprised to see Chibnall lurching back so hard into deep continuity and I'm not sure how it'll go down with the general audience. I enjoyed it though and expect it'll play well with fans who criticised last series for being too simple. Jerusalem posted:Contact! When was the last time they used that? 3rd Doctor? I watched the Three Doctors not too long ago, so I was very happy to have got that reference. "You're not the only one who can do Classic" was a terrible pun, but I kind of love it.
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 21:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 05:37 |
|
|
i thought it was a load of crap. the off-screen resolution was like a parody of doctor who, they've regressed back to the RTD status quo wrt Gallifrey for no apparent reason, and Sacha Dhawan struggles to make much of an impression as the Master through the very dull writing. oh and the companions spend the whole time milling about doing nothing interesting. and the Doctor makes some famous friends!! who she likes a lot for no real reason and then get shoved away from the screen so Chibnall can reference the TCE or contact or logopolis or whatever. saw it compared to The Rise of Skywalker on twitter which i think is very apt
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 21:46
|
|
|
One of the things I thought about last season was that it felt a bit disconnected from the rest of the franchise, so it's nice to see a series a bit more grounded in continuity. I'm not a huge fan of a deep dive into the history of the Time Lords, since it's better left vague aside from a few bits of information. I wasn't a big fan of John Simms' Master (except for the last episode, where he had a beard), but really liked Michelle Gomez. Sacha Dhawan really grew on me, but yeah trying to understand the Master's timeline except in broad strokes is madness. I guess he can just regenerate again, roll with it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 22:32
|
|
|
Last season - all new monsters dont think about the whole mythos. This season two episodes in - let's do it all
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 22:34
|
|
|
  That was great. Also did anyone notice that The Master had a First Doc costume thing going on in the one shot we had of his full body hologram? Also I realized watching this one that the Doctor's tuxedo has a lot of 11 in it, with the bowtie and long coat.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 22:53
|
|
|
Season-long puzzle boxes never work as well as the writers think. Especially when the implication is that the Time Lords did something terrible in their past and that's shocking. When, really, most of Time Lord history has alternated between being self-important, staid non-interventionalists and horrible, corrupt monsters worse than any of the Doctor's enemies. Using time scoops to force untold numbers to fight in the Death Zone to killing everyone on Earth by transporting the planet across time and space to prevent a few minor secrets from being retrieved by spies. Instead of killing the Time Lords one more time, I'd rather they brought them back to the background of Who and treated them like Lovecraftian Old Ones. An ancient race that rarely appears and that even most advanced civilizations hoped wouldn't notice them for their continued existence. I'd like for the Doctor to be afraid of their own people like they were when they arrived at the end of The War Games.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 23:31
|
|
|
Harlock posted:Last season - all new monsters dont think about the whole mythos. Yeah we had both new (cool) monsters AND the Master in an episode that held together quite strongly. In some ways, it really was The Last of the Timelords done better.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2020 23:44
|
|
|
cargohills posted:i thought it was a load of crap. the off-screen resolution was like a parody of doctor who, they've regressed back to the RTD status quo wrt Gallifrey for no apparent reason, and Sacha Dhawan struggles to make much of an impression as the Master through the very dull writing. Between destroying Gallifrey and making the Master gleefully evil again Chibnail clearly decided he wasn't a fan of a lot of late game Moffat ideas. And good for him, because Moffat clearly wasn't a fan on lots of Davis ideas and over ruled them too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:25
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:Between destroying Gallifrey and making the Master gleefully evil again Chibnail clearly decided he wasn't a fan of a lot of late game Moffat ideas. It does have the faint whiff of comic book retconning though. If all you do is undo the last person's story, then you never get around to telling your own. A much better strategy, in my eyes, is either to ignore what you don't want to deal with (which is SUPER easy with Who) or to "yes and" the last person's choices. Don't try to 'fix' them, use them as your springboard and build off them, because surely if you're better than the last guy, you can use their foundation to tell a way better story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:29
|
|
|
JacquelineDempsey posted:I can't put it in those terms because I've only seen the first season of Sherlock, but... An 8 year old asking what that means should be answered. Don’t be sex negative to your kid. The world is hosed up as it is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:31
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:Between destroying Gallifrey and making the Master gleefully evil again Chibnail clearly decided he wasn't a fan of a lot of late game Moffat ideas. I dont think anyone (including Moffat) ever thought the Master not being evil was going to stick. You could even argue that its one of the reasons that Moffat killed off Missy; The next showrunner was free to then do whatever version of the Master they wanted.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:43
|
|
|
The Master wiping out the Time Lords (even in their weakened, post war state) seems a little silly. I'm assuming they'll be more to that at some point.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 00:51
|
|
|
There's a ton of stuff throughout the show and extended media that hints at some sort of special connection between the Time Lords and humanity beyond looking similar. If the big revelation is that Time Lords are descended from humans or vice versa that wouldn't be the craziest thing and would work pretty well as a season long mystery. Also the Citadel has been blown up plenty of times and come back. In one of the Gallifrey audios they even grafted a version from an alternative future onto the spot where the previous was one when it got blown up by, I want to say werewolves? Though, that does seem to confirm that this Master is post-Missy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 01:48
|
|
|
it me I liked the first and second episode what of it 
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 01:53
|
|
|
Chokes McGee posted:it me I liked the first and second episode Sounds like you're in good company then, many of us in this thread did too!
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 02:29
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Sounds like you're in good company then, many of us in this thread did too! but some do not we usually agree on everything in this thread, I dun understaaaahnd it
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 02:40
|
|
|
OldMemes posted:The Master wiping out the Time Lords (even in their weakened, post war state) seems a little silly. I'm assuming they'll be more to that at some point. Yeah, even if he did wipe out Gallifrey he must've suckered some BIG support in to help him that's probably going to backfire in the long run as most of his plans do. Or he's being a shitter and taking credit for something he had no part in. It does feel perfectly in character for the Master to do such a thing if the Time Lords tried to control him again though. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of Gallifreyans survived by evacuating to a new safe spot to escape whatever happened. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jan 6, 2020 |
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 02:47
|
|
|
Mokinokaro posted:Yeah, even if he did wipe out Gallifrey he must've suckered some BIG support in to help him that's probably going to backfire in the long run as most of his plans do. Or he's being a shitter and taking credit for something he had no part in. somewhere a faint "exterminate" echoes across the universe
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 02:54
|
|
|
But it's high-pitched because the Master has pumped their casings with helium again like he did before the TV Movie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 03:03
|
|
|
DroneRiff posted:Yeah "The Timeless Child" thing will 100% turn out to be a wet fart. Not eveything needs to be the grand mutli-reality chess plan and saving the whole universe At the moment it sounds like it’s heading in a “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas” direction, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. And it’s interesting to think that both the Doctor and the Master would be furious at grounding an entire society upon the suffering of one being. If we can get away from saving the universe and make it more about trying to right an eon’s-old wrong even if that means sacrifice, that could be interesting. Or, you know, a disaster. But Doctor Who is better when it’s trying and failing than when it’s playing everything safe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 03:42
|
|
|
1. Ok, some good Bill and Ted time fixing stuff. Like that. However how did the Doc know to put the stickers for Ryan to see? She would either have had to contact them again after she ran off to ask what they did EXACTLY, or she did it trial and error and watched them die a few times until it was perfected. 2. If he wasn't killed by the Nazis' was he sent off to a concentration camp? 3. Does the Master have his own TARDIS? If so, why didn't the evil TARDIS sentience keep out the Doctor from using it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 03:45
|
|
|
I'm glad it's more ambitious than last season but I don't necessarily think that had to mean "Yet another enigmatic arc." Honestly parts of this felt repetitive- ANOTHER episode about phones-but-too-much, another episode where the companions are now hunted because the Master controls everything, a very Moffat-esque "we travelled in time to retroactively fix this" solution, and Gallifrey's gone again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 03:46
|
|
|
happyhippy posted:
He hasn't had a TARDIS since back in the old series. He uses some kind of unrelated stolen time travel tech.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 03:49
|
|
|
happyhippy posted:1. Ok, some good Bill and Ted time fixing stuff. Like that. However how did the Doc know to put the stickers for Ryan to see? 1. the doctor has been time travelling for over a thousand years and is an expert at engineering events to unfold a certain way on the first shot. other than that, wibbly wobbly etc. 2. no, he had a really clever idea 3. he's had them before just not in the new series until now. also tardises aren't necessarily evil they just do whatever they're told. it's implied that the doctor's is potentially defective (and already a museum piece) which accounts for its quirks and personality
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 03:54
|
|
|
Doctor who is at its best when the episodes are ambitious at the expense of any wider continuity and at its worst when it tries really hard to make poo poo internally consistent at the expense of the immediate storytelling. The former is the tone that I got from Spyfall, so I'm totally on board for series 12 (season 38). Also did you notice that the Master's facial hair grew in over the two episodes? Dollars to donuts that he's sporting the full Roger next time we see him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 03:56
|
|
|
SiKboy posted:But I am EXTREMELY leery of them exploring any "origins of the time lords" stuff.  Diwan was great as the Master. I liked him in Adventure in Space and Time and it's good to see him back. The right mix of suave, menace, and unhinged glee. drat shame I was spoiled on it by my news feed and YouTube the day after airing. It's getting ridiculous.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 04:01
|
|
|
Haven't watched part 2 yet but I just realised something watching the catch up part. If Daniel Barton is 93% human, he is 5% less human than a chimpanzee.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 04:04
|
|
|
a modern convenience threatening to doom humanity (and a companion's family) was some big time RTD energy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 04:34
|
|
|
That might have been a rare case of part 2 being better than part 1? That was really good, and I feel like the Eiffel Tower scene might have been Jodie’s best work as the Doctor so far. She was absolutely the Doctor there in a way I feel like she hadn’t previously hit at all. I loved her “I don’t like what you’re wearing.” Sacha Dhawan has been a crush for a few years (and was my choice to replace Capaldi, honestly), so I feel a bit odd fancying the Master. I’ve rapidly come to terms with it though, because he’s some great casting. I’m going to call it that he’s almost certainly back this season.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 04:43
|
|
|
I love that the Master brings up causing the 4th Doctor's death, asks if he ever apologized for it, and declares,"Good" when he learns he hasn't  Also the Master has a TARDIS but not in the same sense that the Doctor does. She's been using the same TARDIS for 1000s of years, treats it like a home AND a best friend (and kinda sorta a wife) and the two have a connection unheard of for other Time Lords. It was already "defunct" when she stole it, so it was already past the age that Time Lords usually allow them to live/operate, probably to avoid it developing anything remotely close to sentience and she's just piled on the miles onto it since then. The Master by comparison uses his solely as a means of transport, certainly would never deign to allow a relationship to develop with a "machine" and this latest one is probably the latest in a long series he uses and discards at will, probably from Gallifrey when he went back recently. Edit: I also like to think he's arrogant enough that he thought the perception filter would be enough and didn't even bother to lock the door when he landed in Paris, and when the Doctor went to "lockpick" it the door just swung open.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 04:53
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:a modern convenience threatening to doom humanity (and a companion's family) was some big time RTD energy. "Say my name" and the whole "we're watching you, you're public enemy numbers 1, 2, and 3--now RUN!" was very "Sound of Drums" And, of course, the actual sound of drums from the Master's head.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 04:58
|
|
|
Great start, but it ends the same way as bill and Ted's excellent adventure. Also she's a telepath now?
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 04:58
|
|
|
HardKase posted:Also she's a telepath now? That's been a thing going back to the early 1970s.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 05:01
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:That's been a thing going back to the early 1970s. Yeah I just remembered, but it doesn't come up often.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 05:04
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:That's been a thing going back to the early 1970s. The three doctors!
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 05:09
|
|
|
HardKase posted:Yeah I just remembered, but it doesn't come up often. It came up in Doctors Wife when hr senses the other time lords.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 05:12
|
|
|
Why didn't the Master just then help the Nazis win WW2? He doesn't give a poo poo about causality.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 05:33
|
|
|
That 77 years of the Master living on Earth is a nice Big Finish opening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 05:35
|
|
|
The_Doctor posted:That 77 years of the Master living on Earth is a nice Big Finish opening. Nick Briggs thought of 4000 possible stories the moment that line came up. 150 of which don't even have Daleks in them!
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 06:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 05:37 |
|
|
Avoiding tripping into his own plans around the 70s/80s must have been the hardest.
|
|
#
?
Jan 6, 2020 06:14
|
|