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NikkolasKing posted:
i am more surprised how open and clearly explained that is. i am used to 40k lore stuff going up its own rear end a bit and trying to be more mysterious about various stuff. this is something i will send to my girlfriend. like one of the big issues i have with 40k is it sometimes forgets you arnt a outsider and it forgets to explain what things mean and are without some in universe mutterings. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 23:02
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well I imagine he expected it, it just happened sooner then he wanted. Magnus was also not supposed to gently caress up the webway or be among the traitors if I recall correctly. (Cause Magnus's fate was supposed to be what happened to the Emperor. Serving as an external battery for the Throne.) Pretty much this. The thunder warriors were created to conquer Earth and once that was done were a threat that needed to be destroyed as the conflict moved onto the galactic scale. The space marines were meant to conquer the galaxy and thereby allow the emperor to do what he needed to do to get humanity in the webway at which point they would have been wiped out and human's long term survival would be assured outside of the influence of Chaos. So the Heresy was meant to happen but not remotely in the same way it did.
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Jan 2, 2020 23:21
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The old Realm of Chaos lore isn't really binding on modern 40K and has been directly contradicted in some cases. For example, the "Khorne is honourable" is specifically contradicted by later fluff which explicitly states that he doesn't give a poo poo how the bloodshed happens as long as it does.
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Jan 3, 2020 01:21
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Fallen Hamprince posted:The old Realm of Chaos lore isn't really binding on modern 40K and has been directly contradicted in some cases. For example, the "Khorne is honourable" is specifically contradicted by later fluff which explicitly states that he doesn't give a poo poo how the bloodshed happens as long as it does. My headcanon is that it used to be that way but since Emps has been on the throne/half warp entity the "good" qualities like honor accrue to him.
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Jan 3, 2020 01:58
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Nurgle has a Garden and Slaanesh has a Improbable Lobster fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 02:05
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Khorne has a Khorne Field obviously.
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Jan 3, 2020 02:12
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Arcsquad12 posted:Khorne has a Khorne Field obviously. I love it
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Jan 3, 2020 02:26
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NikkolasKing posted:What is with GW not rereleasing some things? Why is this stuff not at least on DriveThruRPG?
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Jan 3, 2020 03:41
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Noblesse Obliged posted:I love it If you build the skull throne, he will come
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Jan 3, 2020 04:42
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Arquinsiel posted:GW are a UK company that barely gives a poo poo about anything outside of the mainland and runs its own stores to force other hobbies out of business (RIP Modelzone). The Horus Heresy novels are at best backfilling detail on the status quo of the setting which was pretty much static from 1996 or so until the last year or two. At other points they're just retconning poo poo. It's all been seat of pants writing for a decade or so now as GW realised it was a moneyspinner. Give up trying to make sense of it and just enjoy the bits you enjoy for what they are. I think it is pretty obvious this changed a couple of years ago when the new management came in. I mean tabletop is still their dominant concern, but things have taken a big turn since then as far as BL/Lore goes. They are obviously making an effort to get the lore straightened out at least somewhat, move things forward, and tell the big stories they should have been telling all along instead of the status quo. We'll still get four or five bolter porns for every one The Great Work, but the jump 100 years ahead and bringing back Girlyman was beyond imaging 5-10 years ago. They have also brought in 10-15 new authors in just the last year. Books take a long time to write and they make new authors cut their teeth on short stories for a while before jumping to novels so it's not a quick turning ship, but I am very excited about the direction they are going in and I think the next 10 years will be the best yet. I mean hell, they wrote a Navigator focused novel and it was actually really good plus we are seeing a lot of stuff actually set on Terra.
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Jan 3, 2020 05:18
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Improbable Lobster posted:Nurgle has a Garden and Slaanesh has a garden, what do Tzeentch and Khorne have? Tzeentch has a Maze and Khorne has a Citadel of Brass. Slaanesh has a Palace to be exact a Garden is just in it. Khorne is stated to no longer really care about honor. "Although a tribe may view the god of war as an honourable or even darkly noble figure, in truth Khorne is neither of these things. Dealing brutal and bloody death is the only way to maintain the favour of this furious deity." MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 07:02
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D-Pad posted:I think it is pretty obvious this changed a couple of years ago when the new management came in. I mean tabletop is still their dominant concern, but things have taken a big turn since then as far as BL/Lore goes. They are obviously making an effort to get the lore straightened out at least somewhat, move things forward, and tell the big stories they should have been telling all along instead of the status quo. We'll still get four or five bolter porns for every one The Great Work, but the jump 100 years ahead and bringing back Girlyman was beyond imaging 5-10 years ago. They have also brought in 10-15 new authors in just the last year. Books take a long time to write and they make new authors cut their teeth on short stories for a while before jumping to novels so it's not a quick turning ship, but I am very excited about the direction they are going in and I think the next 10 years will be the best yet. I mean hell, they wrote a Navigator focused novel and it was actually really good plus we are seeing a lot of stuff actually set on Terra. ETA: none of this is useful to a newbie trying to untangle nearly 40 years of fluff anyways. Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Jan 3, 2020 |
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Jan 3, 2020 14:15
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Ya know they mention in the Realm of Chaos book about Slaanesh and Khorne that Slaanesh is "not the god of warriors." I feel like Lucius and the entire Emperor's Children Legion might take exception to that but anyway the point was about HOW jaded, spoiled nobles are the real backers of Slaanesh. I always found Slaanesh and Nurgle to be the most interesting of the four while Khorne is the most boring. They mention so many times across all the supplementary material that Slaanesh is the weakest of the four because in the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium there is only war and despair and flux. There's not a lot of excessive pleasure to be had for most folks. But in one Slaanesh thing I glanced at they started off with a good point: "One day, Khorne will run out of foes, Nurgle’s tally of plagues will be completed, and Tzeentch’s schemes shall reach their conclusion. None, however, can foresee a time when men shall set aside their darkest passions and selfish desires and forego that which they most crave."
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Jan 3, 2020 20:50
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I think Khorne could be done justice in an ADB book. Abnett already started doing some interesting things with Khorne via the Blood Pact and the Sons of Sek. In Anarch, the Sek faction especially had some really neat subversions of your typical Chaos Cult.
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Jan 3, 2020 21:14
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That Australian guy who did the Cajun Guard (and apparently got popped for plagiarizing a bunch?) had a decently interesting treatment of CSMs that might have been Khorne-sworn?
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Jan 3, 2020 21:38
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Arcsquad12 posted:I think Khorne could be done justice in an ADB book. Abnett already started doing some interesting things with Khorne via the Blood Pact and the Sons of Sek. In Anarch, the Sek faction especially had some really neat subversions of your typical Chaos Cult. They seem to really be putting more effort into their audiobook adaptations recently. Heard a lot of things about this Gaunt's Ghosts series and they had previously released 13-15 over a few years but they went back just a couple months ago and did an audiobook for Book 1. This hopefully means, provided cost-benefit analysis checks out, they will be doing 2-12. As if I didn't have enough to read.... But it has to do with Chaos I hear so I need to look into it. Thanks for the rec.
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Jan 3, 2020 21:44
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I liked the Khornate blood magic in one of the later Gaunt's Ghosts books, it fits perfectly despite Khorne's historical hatred of sorcery
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Jan 3, 2020 22:18
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I'm honestly surprised that Nurgle's "good" aspect is Hope and not Love. I mean, whenever cultists of Nurgle show up in WHF, they tend to be wanting to spread Nurgle's plagues so that people can share in his love, and even in the 40k verse, the Plague Marines tend to just be laid back and fight because they have to, not because they want to. I always though Tzeench was "Hope" to tie in with the "everything always changes" side of Tzeench.
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Jan 4, 2020 01:00
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Randalor posted:I'm honestly surprised that Nurgle's "good" aspect is Hope and not Love. I mean, whenever cultists of Nurgle show up in WHF, they tend to be wanting to spread Nurgle's plagues so that people can share in his love, and even in the 40k verse, the Plague Marines tend to just be laid back and fight because they have to, not because they want to. Tzeench is hope, Nurgle is love IIRC
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Jan 4, 2020 02:38
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NikkolasKing posted:Ya know they mention in the Realm of Chaos book about Slaanesh and Khorne that Slaanesh is "not the god of warriors." I feel like Lucius and the entire Emperor's Children Legion might take exception to that but anyway the point was about HOW jaded, spoiled nobles are the real backers of Slaanesh. They have been changing that recently. Namely that with more time Slaanesh has the potential to surpass all of them, something it was very close to achieving in Age of Sigmar before it was imprisoned. Broken down to their core components Khorne is a god empowered by Rage, Nurgle is empowered by Despair, Tzeentch by Hope and Slaanesh by Excess. Of the four Slaanesh's is the only who is fundamentally not powered by an emotion, but by anything brought to excess. "It is also this that inspires such uncertainty in Slaanesh’s brothers, for while they may hold ascendancy for now, it is possible that Slaanesh may eventually rise to eclipse them all – for whatever emotion or yearning empowers them empowers the Dark Prince also, provided it is felt with a great intensity." MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 03:40
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Fallen Hamprince posted:Tzeench is hope, Nurgle is love IIRC No, the entry NikkolasKing posted says Nurgle embodies Hope because... uh... Grandpa Nurgle loves you? At least the "Nurgle is also the god of Love, he just expresses it through his diseases" also ties in with him kidnapping Isha from Slaanish when the Eye of Terror opened and keeping her in a cage in his garden and force feeding her with his various plagues. To him, that's literally how he expresses his love while protecting her from Slaanish.
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Jan 4, 2020 05:37
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Also once you've got one of Papa Nurgle's plagues you can never die of any other disease.
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Jan 4, 2020 17:55
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There’s a passage in False Gods in which Horus is shown a 40k shrine world and witnesses things like cherubs and prayer ships. One thing I don’t recognize is what’s going on in this sentence: quote:“Random demagogues roamed the streets, one fanatically mortifying his flesh with prayer whips while another held up two squares of orange cloth by the corners and screamed that he would not wear them. Horus could make no sense of any of it” Is this a reference to something, or just a throwaway example of fanaticism?
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Jan 4, 2020 20:06
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Nurgle ist not just love Nurgle is pets 
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Jan 4, 2020 20:37
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Kevin DuBrow posted:There’s a passage in False Gods in which Horus is shown a 40k shrine world and witnesses things like cherubs and prayer ships. One thing I don’t recognize is what’s going on in this sentence: The old testament in the bible has some stuff about not wearing certain types of cloth with each other or something so maybe a reference to that? It's probably nothing and just used as a quick description of how fanatic they are. Duzzy Funlop posted:Nurgle ist not just love The nurglings basically being house cats in Lords of Silence was one of my favorite things about that book.
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Jan 4, 2020 21:18
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NikkolasKing posted:But in one Slaanesh thing I glanced at they started off with a good point: I think it was in the AOSO2.0 rulebook, but there was a great take on Slaanesh where the mortal followers of the other gods are most terrified of Slaanesh, because if they fall too deeply into excess in worship to their patron, that counts as Slaanesh worship. Like, Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, but He expects YOU to care, and if you just indulge too much in that blood flowing then you might as well become a Slaanesh follower.
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Jan 5, 2020 15:00
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Finished Hamilcar: Champion of the Gods this week. Great book, but it was slightly ruined by the rushed cliffhanger ending. But that's probably what you're going to get when the antagonist is a recognizable character. Started reading Scourge of Fate now. The description of the Varanspire and its surroundings is really good. Although I couldn't help but to roll my eyes when they called Sigmar a False God. Feels like that was just a step away from calling him a Corpse King.
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Jan 5, 2020 16:02
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Necromunda's lord of skin and sinew does a good job of demonstrating how (a greater daemon of) Khorne can be interesting while still blood-focused. It's essentially the Texas Chainsaw Massacre's take on the meat industry, but it also incorporates the idea of desensitization leading to aberrant behavior. Corpse starch is food made out of dead citizens, which has been processed enough that it's barely cannibalism. But the processing facilities represent a weak link, and a little nudge towards Khorne went a long way. Cooked Auto posted:Although I couldn't help but to roll my eyes when they called Sigmar a False God. Feels like that was just a step away from calling him a Corpse King. He is a false god in that Sigmar is the patron god of the Old World Empire, not some cosmos-spanning super being. Whatever they're calling Sigmar today isn't the ascended form of the brave hammer-lad who carved the Empire from the wilderness and orcs. moths fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jan 5, 2020 |
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Jan 5, 2020 16:57
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IshmaelZarkov posted:I think it was in the AOSO2.0 rulebook, but there was a great take on Slaanesh where the mortal followers of the other gods are most terrified of Slaanesh, because if they fall too deeply into excess in worship to their patron, that counts as Slaanesh worship. That's stupid and further proof that fantasy is trash. Blood for the Blood God.
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Jan 6, 2020 00:08
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Maybe I don't understand how bad people think but bad people should in effect think like anyone else, they just go through with acts we never would. I have a temper and I am a bit full of myself. Both of these things would make me instantly turn anyone who tried to kill me into paste on the wall if I had Space Marine's or a Primarch's strength. But the very angry Horus and the very egotistical Lucius are both just like "eh." Horus was lied to from the get go by Erebus, Lucius was thrown onto a planet to die like the rest of the trash he so despises. It doesn't matter what Erebus intended, it doesn't matter if Lucius was only dropped there due to his friendship with Saul, Horus got stabbed and Lucius got nearly eaten alive by a virus. Objective #1 upon realizing all this should be to make a goblet out of Erebus' skull and for Lucius...I guess he'd have a hard time killing Fulgrim or whoever but at least make the attempt. You shame yourself by crawling back and licking the feet of those who betrayed you. Where is the warrior pride in that? I just don't understand.
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Jan 6, 2020 07:49
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The point being neither simply care any more; They're past/over it - People try to kill them every day, and the fact Erebus tricked them is like 'Yeah, but we're all in Literal Hell now, so I guess who gives a gently caress.'
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Jan 6, 2020 08:18
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NikkolasKing posted:Maybe I don't understand how bad people think but bad people should in effect think like anyone else, they just go through with acts we never would. Loyalty and fealty are genetically encoded into Marines, which helps explains Lucius' case. Horus was "tricked" to an extent but in the end Erebus was just giving him what he wanted and didn't really know.
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Jan 6, 2020 15:34
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moths posted:He is a false god in that Sigmar is the patron god of the Old World Empire, not some cosmos-spanning super being. I was more referring to the sounded a bit too similar to False Emperor and so on from 40k.  Either way I'm loving the book because I honestly didn't expect stuff like Chaos court politics or a jousting tournament. Not to mention the joust itself.
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Jan 6, 2020 15:55
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The November issue of White Dwarf has a bit about Inquisitors and mentions that Jokaero make “digital weapons” and lists off ring-weapons and finger lasers as examples. “Digital weapons” in this context means “weapons one wears on their digits (fingers)”, right? Like basically miniaturized weapons? I also didn’t realize the Inquisition had smaller Ordos outside of the main three, and the examples they gave were hilarious (literal time-cops, or the group that does gently caress knows what, and the other group whose sole mission is figuring what the gently caress the first group does).
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Jan 7, 2020 00:21
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Are they separate ordos, or are they sub-ordos of the big three?
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Jan 7, 2020 01:38
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Xenomrph posted:The November issue of White Dwarf has a bit about Inquisitors and mentions that Jokaero make “digital weapons” and lists off ring-weapons and finger lasers as examples. “Digital weapons” in this context means “weapons one wears on their digits (fingers)”, right? Like basically miniaturized weapons? for a second i assumed it was like those weapons in FF15. where they all come from rings and poo poo.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:38
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Yeah, literally little ring guns. If you have the old 2nd edition Captain Tycho model his left hand has some on it.
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Jan 7, 2020 01:39
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Dapper_Swindler posted:for a second i assumed it was like those weapons in FF15. where they all come from rings and poo poo. 
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Jan 7, 2020 01:51
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Randalor posted:Are they separate ordos, or are they sub-ordos of the big three? They are separate Ordos that act independently from the main three. As inquisitors go about their duty their interests/focus might change and that’s where the ordos and their focus/specialities come into play. I believe a lot of the smaller ordos (Ordos Minoris I think they are called?) were created for the 40k pen and paper games, so I don’t know if they are considered canon or not.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:34
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Arquinsiel posted:Yeah, literally little ring guns. If you have the old 2nd edition Captain Tycho model his left hand has some on it. The Jokaero and their weirdly high tech goes all the way back to 1e. It seems like every other author who writes a high-powered Imperial gives them a fistful as holdout weapons (and sign of status).
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