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Just for the record, a $200k salary would utterly transform my life, and the lives of my extended family, since I would help them. My sister lost her house in the recession over a debt much less than $200k
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Jan 7, 2020 23:47
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redreader posted:Holy poo poo, this was in a sidebar on the frontpage of CNN. Bernie's going to win. "Bernie Sanders could actually win this thing" https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/07/politics/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-2020-democratic-primary/index.html I wonder how much this will snowball. I'm sure there are lots of people who think "I like bernie, but he probably won't win, so I'll support [other candidate].". Once articles like this come out, it's bound to change some minds.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:54
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Anyone in the PMC should be able to weather a job loss mainly due to the fact that the PMC generally has things like 401ks etc that they can pull from plus you'll frequently end up with severance. The working poor do not have this. I'm a computer toucher in an expensive city and if you fired me tomorrow i'd be ok for at least a few months. When I didn't have this job I would have been out on my rear end when I didn't make my next rent payment and couldn't buy food. Many cities have really poo poo protections for renters and it takes a lot longer for a bank to evict you out of a mortgage if you have a house. There's so many factors that make life just that little bit more stable for the PMC. There's a huge difference in the security level. The lack of security that the working poor have causes all kinds of stress related health issues that compound. What alot of the fellow PMCers in even expensive cities don't seem to realize is that the people who make your food? All making probably less than 1/4th what you do. You feel like you are struggling? They are struggling so much harder. They are so much more stressed. They are so much more on the brink. And that's why i'm diehard for Bernie. If Bernie directly said my job was going away the minute he got elected I would still vote for him. I would be OK. My skills translate to a lot of different things as does most of the PMC.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:01
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The PMC can just eat their retirement if they lose their job! Is not a good selling point about financial security.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:04
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ratbert90 posted:The PMC can just eat their retirement if they lose their job! Is not a good selling point about financial security. Not at all but its still a momentary cushion that most don't have.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:05
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ratbert90 posted:The PMC can just eat their retirement if they lose their job! Is not a good selling point about financial security. beats the poo poo out of eating pavement tho
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Jan 8, 2020 00:15
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silicone thrills posted:What alot of the fellow PMCers in even expensive cities don't seem to realize is that the people who make your food? All making probably less than 1/4th what you do. You feel like you are struggling? They are struggling so much harder. They are so much more stressed. They are so much more on the brink. I have a friend who used to be a waitress until she graduated college to code. It's so cringey to go out to eat with her and listen to her talk poo poo because the waiter or waitress didn't ask if everything was okay enough times.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:24
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Gyges posted:Joe Biden; Pretty sure that hot stove won't burn him a third time. You know he doesn't believe it, right? It's a tactic.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:36
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Epicurius posted:You know he doesn't believe it, right? It's a tactic. He believes it because all he remembers about republicans are his old segregationist buddies.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:38
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Faustian Bargain posted:They also probably work harder, honestly. Every coder I know that’s my age (early 30’s) work insane hours. I don’t think I have had a week that’s less than 60 hours in 3 months. In the last 10 years I have averaged around 55 hours a week.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:42
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redreader posted:Holy poo poo, this was in a sidebar on the frontpage of CNN. Bernie's going to win. "Bernie Sanders could actually win this thing" https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/07/politics/bernie-sanders-joe-biden-2020-democratic-primary/index.html Or, "In Which Chris Cillizza Finally Gets a Clue" Cillizza is so dumb that if I didn't know he is actually just 2-3 weeks behind every other news analyst, I would actually take this article as a bad omen Jay-V fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 00:43
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ratbert90 posted:Every coder I know that’s my age (early 30’s) work insane hours. I don’t think I have had a week that’s less than 60 hours in 3 months. In the last 10 years I have averaged around 55 hours a week. What hours do you think waitresses work, for the record?
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Jan 8, 2020 00:45
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ratbert90 posted:Every coder I know that’s my age (early 30’s) work insane hours. I don’t think I have had a week that’s less than 60 hours in 3 months. In the last 10 years I have averaged around 55 hours a week. Now imagine working 60 hours a week while breaking your whole body while getting paid dick all. All of us workers need to be in it together and that means don't pearl clutch when we talk about making things significantly better for the workers who have it worse. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 00:45
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Hey guys, if we are going to determine sides in the class struggle, can we stick to "workers vs owners"? I know, we'll piss off the Waltons who definitely post ITT, but I'm ok with that.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:46
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ratbert90 posted:Every coder I know that’s my age (early 30’s) work insane hours. I don’t think I have had a week that’s less than 60 hours in 3 months. In the last 10 years I have averaged around 55 hours a week. If it matters to you, I also am a programmer and do not work insane hours, and neither does she.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:51
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Cerebral Bore posted:What hours do you think waitresses work, for the record? Depends on the job. This is why saying poo poo like: “They probably work harder” is dumb and bad. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 8, 2020 00:53
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ratbert90 posted:Every coder I know that’s my age (early 30’s) work insane hours. I don’t think I have had a week that’s less than 60 hours in 3 months. In the last 10 years I have averaged around 55 hours a week. Do you work in the games industry or something? This isn't true of any programmers that I know. Hell, I'm a self-employed programmer making not wildly less than six-figures and I work maybe 35 hour weeks most of the time. I might average slightly higher if you count non-billable time, but I definitely have not averaged 40 hours over the last four or five years. Most of the regular, full-time programmers that I know work pretty strict 35-40 hour weeks. Meanwhile I have a buddy who works 60+ hour weeks in a warehouse and doesn't break $40k/year
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Jan 8, 2020 00:57
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i'm a pmc programmer succdem, i work 40 hour weeks, and i'm voting for bernie
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Jan 8, 2020 00:58
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Bernie Sanders is definitely going to win. He's the only candidate making an unequivocal moral statement against the war. While all the other candidates are doing the exact same "Hrm yes well, you see, Iran is evil and it should be stopped at any cost but Trump didn't fill out the right forms and I would let Iran keep being evil because I'm a pussy" poo poo that helped Kerry eat poo poo in 2004.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:59
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ratbert90 posted:Depends on the job. This is why saying poo poo like: “They probably work harder” is dumb and bad.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:59
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ratbert90 posted:Depends on the job. This is why saying poo poo like: “They probably work harder” is dumb and bad. OK so you don't know poo poo. Good to know.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:59
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Faustian Bargain posted:Have you ever worked a customer service or food job? Yes. I was also a land scaper and worked call centers and retail for years.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:00
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Gripweed posted:Bernie Sanders is definitely going to win. He's the only candidate making an unequivocal moral statement against the war. While all the other candidates are doing the exact same "Hrm yes well, you see, Iran is evil and it should be stopped at any cost but Trump didn't fill out the right forms and I would let Iran keep being evil because I'm a pussy" poo poo that helped Kerry eat poo poo in 2004. as awful as the whole situation is, I do think it's really going to help Bernie. He can draw some clear distinctions at a crucial point, it lets him dredge up old poo poo about Biden, and, coincidentally, it all coincides with the 'Bernie can win' narrative.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:01
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ratbert90 posted:Yes. I was also a land scaper and worked call centers and retail for years. You really don't think landscaping is physically harder on your body than coding and doesn't deserve the same level or more compensation than programming after working landscaping?
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Jan 8, 2020 01:02
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ratbert90 posted:Yes. I was also a land scaper and worked call centers and retail for years. So you're willfully an rear end in a top hat, rather than from ignorance.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:02
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Nice to see Butt labeled "former mayor". Hopefully "former politician" is in his future. mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/aterkel/status/1214651551194787845 America can have a little malarkey
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Jan 8, 2020 01:04
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Watching class solidarity crumble in real time is very sad.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:04
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ratbert90 posted:Depends on the job. This is why saying poo poo like: “They probably work harder” is dumb and bad. OK I see that for some reason the insinuation that some poor waiter/waitress might POSSIBLY work harder than you as you sit in an office chair in front of a computer all day is insulting, but can we just agree here that you're in an easier spot than the person who is on their feet hour hours on end, servicing strangers for 25% of what you make every hour, who needs to beg their manager for more shifts, etc?
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Jan 8, 2020 01:04
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silicone thrills posted:You really don't think landscaping is physically harder on your body than coding and doesn't deserve the same level or more compensation than programming after working landscaping? That’s not what I said nor implied.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:05
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Built 4 Cuban Linux posted:i'm a pmc programmer succdem, i work 40 hour weeks, and i'm voting for bernie
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Jan 8, 2020 01:05
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Watching class solidarity crumble in real time is very sad. If you're worried about class solidarity I suggest you start by going and preaching it to the people who make six figures or more, they seem to need a refresher pretty badly.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:06
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Cerebral Bore posted:If you're worried about class solidarity I suggest you start by going and preaching it to the people who make six figures or more, they seem to need a refresher pretty badly. 
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Jan 8, 2020 01:07
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reignonyourparade posted:He believes it because all he remembers about republicans are his old segregationist buddies. Biden's entire campaign so far has been "Trump is destroying this country, and I'm the only one who can beat him and make stuff the way it was back in the Obama years." It's a tactic, just like his "I'd pick any VP who wants to make stuff better, even a Republican". He's not going to do that. He knows what the Republicans are like. He knows what McConnell is like. But he also knows there are a lot of people...a lot of Democrats who like the idea of comity and bipartisanship, and who are upset with all the anger and fighting. He's taking up the mantle of the Happy Warrior, good old Uncle Joe, back for one last fight to save us from Trump and bring us back to normal. Now, you might not like this message, and you might not think it will work. You might think the old normal wasn't so great. But that's what Biden is trying to do, and you shouldn't underestimate him. Biden is cleverer than some people think.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:10
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Tell me more about how it's actually the poors who are destroying class solidarity by not having enough sympathy for the woes of HENRY types.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:11
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Problem is that the Obama years weren't really great for the majority of the country. It was a lovely status quo and then Trump by some miracle managed to make it worse.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:12
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The coder/waitress class struggle goes another level deeper, too. My partner was a line cook making $1 an above minimum wage in a fancy (though not 3 star fancy) restaurant. The servers got all the tips and could not be made to share with the cooks. So the servers averaged $200 - $300 a night working 6 - 7 hours and the cooks busting their asses out of sight and mind of the tipping PMC customers made $100 a night. The cooks thought the waitresses were rich assholes. Meanwhile they loved their 'chef' who owned the joint, despite him disappearing twice a year to vacation in his parent's Swiss chalet.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:15
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God drat the backbiting & crabbucketing in this thread is rendering it unreadable.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:16
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Ranter posted:The coder/waitress class struggle goes another level deeper, too. My partner was a line cook making $1 an above minimum wage in a fancy (though not 3 star fancy) restaurant. The servers got all the tips and could not be made to share with the cooks. So the servers averaged $200 - $300 a night working 6 - 7 hours and the cooks busting their asses out of sight and mind of the tipping PMC customers made $100 a night. The cooks thought the waitresses were rich assholes. Yeah I saw this in Seattle when we implimented the higher minimum wage and a bunch of restaurants said they weren't going to have tip lines on checks anymore. Alot of the rich restaurant waiters got really pissy about it. Everyone quieted down about it fairly soon because people still end up tipping out for really good service here.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:17
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Watching class solidarity crumble in real time is very sad. Haha yeah I was gonna say that. It's pretty funny watching this thread implode into a slapfight because some people have 6 figures and we invalidate their economic anxiety because other people have it worse than they do... There's an old I think hebrew saying that translates to "May you have everything and then lose it". The implication is that its much easier to adjust to being poor when you've never experienced what it's like to live an affluent lifestyle. If you have things and then have them taken away its a lot harder to adjust because you haven't had to survive that. Even between me and my Eastern European parents there is a massive difference. My mom knows how to shop all the outlet stores and get by with spending as little money as possible. By comparison my own spending habits exceed the money she would spend to achieve the same goals. Western society is very good at finding ways to pick your pocket and drain you of all your money. Some people are better equipped to deal with that and others less so. Thats the only difference. We all end up in the same pit if we lose our jobs. Former colleagues suddenly don't wanna talk to you anymore, your ability to be a member of society is diminished and your value as a human being when rendered unemployed is reduced to that of a cockroach. Everyone looks at you like some leper when you're unemployed. Whether you were a PMC, a shop floor worker or anything else I find the experience to be the same. You guys need to stop fighting eachother just because buddy got a promotion and makes 100k now and suddenly you want his fully loaded Honda Accord because you cant afford one.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:18
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Kraftwerk posted:Haha yeah I was gonna say that. lmao this post has it all e: like seriously this is some of the most tone deaf poo poo I have read in this thread, it's amazing what kind of poo poo you guys post when you feel attacked rscott fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 01:23
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