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On another note; I'm kind of getting the itch to play again so I'm working on finishing that shine bug waterfall thing. I got the one side to work fine but I refuse to use 2 left side waterfalls so now I'm wasting a shitload of time getting it to flow right  . I do have like 60 shine bug eggs to dump in once I'm ready though.  EDIT: Yikes, page sniped myself
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Jan 7, 2020 01:56
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Agent355 posted:That's probably not a bad idea because I have like 700,000kcal stored up and I'm running out of fridges. After I get my power shortage sorted out I want to be able to use some of that electricity to switch my farming set up around to provide fewer, but higher quality, meals and eggs are pretty tasty. You should look into 1 tile storage it will change your life. All my food is sent by automation into 1 tile into what is basically a Chlorine pit with an airlock entrance. Takes no power, very little space and kills all germs. A quick and easy one is just a pit filled with CO2. CO2 is heavier then O2 so if you dig out a pit it will fill with CO2 naturally. Move all your food storage to the pit and you won't need any power as long as you don't breach the bottom. Early game all my food storage is just unpowered fridges in a CO2 pit. As long as the food is stored in a CO2 or Chlorine atmosphere or a vacuum it won't rot and no power is needed.
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Jan 7, 2020 02:18
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I did some napkin math and it seems like I'll need 50 sleet wheat plants to break even (with a small buffer) for a high quality food diet. That means I either need alot of space or some pretty dense farms, which means the heat from too many auto-sweepers could be bad. What are the restrictions on an auto sweepers reach? When you're putting one down you can see some white tiles, is it as straight forward as 'white tile=can reach'? The other complication is going to be temperature. I can put the farm itself in an ice biome but I don't have a cold water geyser. I'm guessing that pumping in water from a cool steam geyser is going to eventually cause problems right? I don't think I can use my limited supply in the aquifer I made at the start of the game, 50 plants is going to drain that fast, a tile per day. So the most elegant, if material expensive, solution is going to be to use the cool steam geyser as a water source but pump the water out to a different ice biome and use it as a radiator before moving the water back to my farm, I should at least be able to chill it down to 10c or less that way, which should make it much more reasonable. So, rambly post aside; How do I know exactly how far an auto sweeper can reach and whether or not it can supply dirt to a farm? I should cool the water before pumping it into sleet wheat farm right?
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Jan 7, 2020 02:21
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axelord posted:You should look into 1 tile storage it will change your life. Yeah I do this in the early game too but in the midgame I get annoyed at the aesthetics of it. Either it's in the middle of my pretty, elegant base and ruining the vibe or it's so far away from the center of the base that I don't want my dupes to walk that far to store the food I cook in my kitchen. I guess in late game it would be less of a problem when I have so much automation going that I just don't need my dupes to be all that time efficient, but in between those extremes I like to just power my fridges. and leave the Co2/chlorine closets for overflow. E: my hydrogen plant is badly designed, it's too hot, takes up too much room. I should have either expanded slower and took the time to properly cool the hydrogen I took in, or simply pumped the hydrogen out to some abyssite surrounded biome where it could run mostly automated and not transfer heat to my base. Also I've learned alot about how many critters I should be ranching and I shouldn't willy nilly break into gas pockets without making better airlocks. Sometimes I have a choice of making a bad airlock but having my base layout be prettier, or making a good airlock and I chose poorly. Staying up late and watching AGDQ is a good time to rebuild anyway, rip cycle 200 base. Agent355 fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 02:24
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It begins
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Jan 7, 2020 03:35
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How do you get more metal if there is no volcanos in your seed? Or is there enough metal in the map that completely running out is such a late game problem it's not meant to be a balance thing.
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Jan 7, 2020 04:07
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Agent355 posted:How do I know exactly how far an auto sweeper can reach and whether or not it can supply dirt to a farm? Yeah, the white squares show where it'll reach. Note that solid tiles will block it, though pneumatic doors won't. When I've made a sleet wheat farm I definitely cooled the water, and I can't imagine getting the temperature right by just pumping it through a cold biome - it could easily get too cold and freeze in the pipes, or warm up the biome until it's not cold enough. I did it using automation, a thermo aquatuner, and a steam turbine to cool it to within like a degree of freezing, so it could serve as both irrigation and coolant for the crops.
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Jan 7, 2020 04:20
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Agent355 posted:How do you get more metal if there is no volcanos in your seed? Or is there enough metal in the map that completely running out is such a late game problem it's not meant to be a balance thing. Space, basically. Either from metal meteorites in meteor storms or resources harvested by your rockets. And yeah you can run out of resources. Also don't forget you can repurpose what you have. Deconstruct old infrastructure you don't need if you have too.
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Jan 7, 2020 05:04
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Triarii posted:Yeah, the white squares show where it'll reach. Note that solid tiles will block it, though pneumatic doors won't. Maybe this is a silly question, since I've never even looked at steam turbines (they sounded complicated) but how do you cool something with one? E: Is there a mod or something that will let me remove some of the alerts? In particular the 'dupes are traveling alot' and 'building out of resources' when the resource is something like meat when I tell the stove to cook barbecue forever because I want them to always cook up meat when they get it, not that I expect to always have it. I feel like that second one in particular could make me miss an actual important building missing resources. Agent355 fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 06:10
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Steam goes in at Temp X. Steam comes out at Temp X - Y. So you use aquatuners to cool your coolant, and the output heat goes into steam, which goes into the turbine and it removes some of the heat and generates electricity.
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Jan 7, 2020 06:40
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Agent355 posted:Maybe this is a silly question, since I've never even looked at steam turbines (they sounded complicated) but how do you cool something with one? Steam turbines turn heat into power, essentially. So what you can do is use them to do stuff like cool the steam coming out of a steam vent (cool steam vents are not hot enough) or you can use the machines that cool what's in them to vent the heat into water/steam and then use the turbine to cool that. This is a common thing used to harvest metal from volcanoes, actually. Use a steam room to suck the heat out of the metal and then use a turbine to suck the heat out of the steam.
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Jan 7, 2020 08:23
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Agent355 posted:Maybe this is a silly question, since I've never even looked at steam turbines (they sounded complicated) but how do you cool something with one? This mod directly removes the long commutes alert: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1725950119 This one lets you specifically disable a particular building's alerts - you select the building when the alert is up and press the suppress button and the alert is gone: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1832319118 The second one is also nice for when you get close to the oil biome an start getting alerts about random batteries being flooded and broken. And yeah, steam turbines take >125C steam and turn it into 95C water, generating power in the process. Anything above 125C can be cooled to 95 for a pure profit in power, but if you want to cool below that then you need to spend power on aquatuners sitting in the steam in order to pull heat out of a coolant medium and into the steam. Generally polluted water is the coolant you want to use (good specific heat capacity, doesn't boil or freeze too easily) - you get that real cold by piping it through an aquatuner and then pipe it through a room or a tank of water, and it'll pull the heat out of it and into the steam chamber to be eaten by the turbines. You can use a pipe thermo sensor to control how cold you get the coolant (in particular, make sure you don't get it so cold that it freezes).
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Jan 7, 2020 08:29
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The steam turbine also spits 10% of the heat it removes out in its local vicinity. Not in the steam or output water but the turbine itself. You need to keep the turbine below 100C or it stops working. You'll probably need to use an aquatuner to do this without some clever engineering.
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Jan 7, 2020 09:20
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Smiling Demon posted:The steam turbine also spits 10% of the heat it removes out in its local vicinity. Not in the steam or output water but the turbine itself. You need to keep the turbine below 100C or it stops working. You'll probably need to use an aquatuner to do this without some clever engineering. As we were talking about a page or two back, you can use the water coming out of the turbine to cool itself by snaking a radiant pipe back and forth over it (95C is less than 100 after all) but I've been playing around with it and it's pretty finicky. You need to be feeding it relatively cool steam for it to work - I found that if the steam's hot enough to break about 40% on the turbine's power meter, then it'll be putting out too much heat to self-cool. Usually this means you just have to build more steam turbines - two turbines seem to be able to handle one aquatuner running pretty steadily, but I have four turbines on a volcano I'm trying to use for power and I'm still not sure it's 100% stable. Filling the room with pressurized hydrogen also helps some, since it makes the water better at pulling heat out of the atmosphere.
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Jan 7, 2020 09:46
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Smiling Demon posted:The steam turbine also spits 10% of the heat it removes out in its local vicinity. Not in the steam or output water but the turbine itself. You need to keep the turbine below 100C or it stops working. You'll probably need to use an aquatuner to do this without some clever engineering. I have a lava-heat-sourced four-turbine build that I put together without even any deaths, in the oldest successful embark I’ve ever played in this game, and to practice for that I set up a power-negative two-turbine build with three aquatuners as the heat source, and actually wound up running a coolant line which chills all six turbines, hits a tuner, runs past all of the industrial and environmental warm spots in the base, hits the other two tuners, and then vents back into the coolant pool around a cool pisswater geyser. Coolant comes back at -2 to 0 C, comes out of the holding pool at 3 to 7 C, due to some heat bleed from an exploited oil biome. In operation for almost 200 cycles and the volcano is not keeping up with the heat demand from four turbines, so I need an alternative within another 400 cycles, but when tuned up the cooling setup is only running at like a 600-watt deficit and the main turbines are consistently running at full also with tune-ups, so plenty of surplus juice plus cooling for the base and the other power plants. Everything about cabling and piping in that base is a loving nightmare, though. My next project is a purpose-built habitation block with mandatory suit wearing outside, as has often been discussed here.
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Jan 7, 2020 16:17
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Agent355 posted:Maybe this is a silly question, since I've never even looked at steam turbines (they sounded complicated) but how do you cool something with one? I took some screenshots of the super-compact tuner build I'm using scattered around my base. This one is for cooling an arbor farm on Oasisse, but it has a similar one elsewhere that cools my entire living quarters. Neither of them is taxed very hard, and both are using gold amalgam aquatuners. The compactness of the build means the turbine is not as power-positive as it could be, but I have a literal million kg of coal from my 12-bay hatchfarm (again, Oasisse) so I'm not hurting for power. It costs maybe 800 watts to run when cooling (vs. maybe 500 if it was built at peak-efficency).        There's 600 kilos of oil and 600 kilos of water in the chamber before capping it with tiles. No vacuuming necessary.
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Jan 7, 2020 18:34
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Okay let me see if I have at least the basic idea. Steam engines take in hot water, turn it into electricity, and dump out still pretty hot water. You return this still pretty hot water to a pool below the steam engine to be re-heated. To heat the water you can use volcanoes or whatever but if you need to cool something else in your base you can pair a steam engine with an aquatuner. The aquatuner cools whatever liquid you need to be colder and the heat the auto tuner puts out boils the liquid below the steam engine. So then you can effectively use steam engines as liquid coolers, though they won't generate a net gain in power? Also they aren't entirely heat neutral so you have to either run them very low and allow them to self-cool with the output water or just dump a chillwort next to them or something. Agent355 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 20:16
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Agent355 posted:Okay let me see if I have at least the basic idea.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:25
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Oh I like the sound of that. Unrelated question; are power stations smart enough that they will only make/consumer microchips and boost generators when the power supply is less than demand? So they won't just waste refined metal if they don't actually need more power?
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Jan 7, 2020 20:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Aq3kRTxlW0 Dumbos not linking a really good video when talking about temp management, smh I haven't got that far myself yet, but I feel I understand enough given the teacher that I should be able to handle it when I need to manage my temps eventually. How do you folks manage popping chlorine and hydrogen pockets early game? I'm pretty close to being done draining the pO2 pools and cleaning the air to make mining the slime around me easier, but I'm not sure what I should do special, if anything, to caustic biomes.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:50
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Locke Dunnegan posted:How do you folks manage popping chlorine and hydrogen pockets early game? Plow into them without a care in the world. As long as there's some space above and below your living/working areas for the gases to collect, they'll harmlessly flow past you, and I wouldn't say they're valuable enough to specifically collect or preserve them.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:55
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Yeah I'll probably set up my very first SPOM soon so I figure the hydrogen isn't a big loss, and I hear chlorine isn't very useful anyway with some care to germ control.
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Jan 7, 2020 20:59
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I use one small room filled with chlorine to kill the germs in the pwater coming from my bathrooms, which is quite useful. But I don't bother with pumping the actual gas around to do that - I just stick a storage compactor in there set to store any bleach stone I find.
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Jan 7, 2020 21:04
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I've only played on the first asteroid so far so I don't HAVE to break into chlorine/helium to be able to have enough space for the essential base things like bathrooms. Once I want to start explore the map I'll use a liquid lock and atmo suits and break down whatever walls and go where I want. The liquid lock will keep all the gasses out.
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Jan 7, 2020 21:12
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Agent355 posted:Oh I like the sound of that. Nope, they will totally waste refined metal, but you can always automate locking a door so your dupes can't get in if your batteries are full.
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Jan 7, 2020 22:51
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I scrapped and started again because my base layout was a mess that sandbox mode couldn't save. Just breached my first chlorine pocket after I lost a lot of time to redirecting water at the start. Two questions: -My next few caustic pockets have drekos. Should I make a hydrogen or chlorine room now or can they survive elsewhere? Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 7, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 23:35
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I came across a geode with 500kg/tile of CO2. Things were going too simply so I said what the hell and broke into it. 20 cycles later and my dupes no longer have to choose between sleeping and breathing! I can't say it wasn't entertaining. Would not recommend if you aren't comfortable with carbon skimmers though.
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Jan 7, 2020 23:35
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Locke Dunnegan posted:How do you folks manage popping chlorine and hydrogen pockets early game? I'm pretty close to being done draining the pO2 pools and cleaning the air to make mining the slime around me easier, but I'm not sure what I should do special, if anything, to caustic biomes. Right now I'm pumping Chlorine through a filter to a pair/triplet of tanks in my clean water tank because water has been tight on this map so I can't be picky about germy sources. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 7, 2020 23:41
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Shumagorath posted:Hydrogen goes up and Chlorine goes down (unless there's a lot of CO2 around for the latter). Put a pump at the top or bottom respectively and build an airlock to contain it before you break the last stone. Wait, if you submerge containers full of Chlorine in a same-size vat of germy water, it purifies it same as if you hand tanked germy water in a chlorine room?
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Jan 8, 2020 01:07
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I'm trying to find some water-ish geyser so I can set up some SPOMs and end my reliance on algae, so far the only one I've found has been a salt water geyser. How hard is it to desalinate that and run SPOMs off it? I haven't actually bothered with salt ever. Also, while I'm at it, is there an easier way to find geysers than to manually scan around looking for their neutronium platform? Agent355 fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 01:15
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LonsomeSon posted:Wait, if you submerge containers full of Chlorine in a same-size vat of germy water, it purifies it same as if you hand tanked germy water in a chlorine room?
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Jan 8, 2020 01:15
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I've never tried it the other way around but as far as I know the only way it works is a fluid reservoir in a pit of gaseous chlorine. Once it's in the reservoir it can get the "surrounded by chlorine" status effect, and then becomes disinfected. No, stop, don't think about it. Blood will shoot out of your ears. Just roll with it.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:20
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It’s because the background fluid of the tile is chlorine. It’s game-y as gently caress logic, but makes sense. It does not work the other direction, no.
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Jan 8, 2020 01:27
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 I made my chlorine food storage look like a skull because professionals have standards. This is before I vacuumed out the rest of the oxygen and installed all the fridges/chlorine. It doesn't look quite as nice with the fridges in it but it's the thought that counts. Agent355 fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 01:41
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Agent355 posted:I'm trying to find some water-ish geyser so I can set up some SPOMs and end my reliance on algae, so far the only one I've found has been a salt water geyser. How hard is it to desalinate that and run SPOMs off it? I haven't actually bothered with salt ever. After combing the map and only finding a polluted water geyser that's way far away from the salt water geyser seems easiest to use to set up some SPOMs. Napkin math says the geyser puts out an average of 4.5k/s of water, a desalinator can process 4k/s which is enough to run 4 electrolyzers. I only have 15 dudes atm so that's way more oxygen than I need but the extra hydrogen I can skim off the extra and it's hard to over produce oxygen because of vent pressure. Electroylyzers don't really care about using hot water but should I try and run some steam engines off cooling the 90 degree gasses I'd produce or is that not really worth it?
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Jan 8, 2020 03:46
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Agent355 posted:Electroylyzers don't really care about using hot water but should I try and run some steam engines off cooling the 90 degree gasses I'd produce or is that not really worth it?
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Jan 8, 2020 05:18
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Agent355 posted:I've only played on the first asteroid so far so I don't HAVE to break into chlorine/helium to be able to have enough space for the essential base things like bathrooms. Once I want to start explore the map I'll use a liquid lock and atmo suits and break down whatever walls and go where I want. The liquid lock will keep all the gasses out. I assumed Atmo suits require plastic just like every other drat advanced research goodie after the initial metal stuff, so I haven't even tried to research them yet to make them. Can you make Atmo suits with just the starting biome resources on Terra? I basically just keep restarting after reaching the oxygen/morale/food sustenance level in the first few dozen cycles and then causing enough havoc with stuff like loose slimelung everywhere in my base or loving up my food somehow or just wanting to start again to "get it right this time", so I guess I just keep getting paralyzed by the amount of things I could do but the game seems to give up on tutorials pretty early, so trying to piece together the disparate janky setups from Francis John's videos and such into a general priority list is a headache. I should just make a SPOM with all the fuckoff water I have on this new map to dip my toe into multi-part 'machines', I guess. But after that? I guess make a Drecko ranch with that hydrogen and hopefully not gently caress it up?
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Jan 8, 2020 05:31
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Honestly the harder part of suits is getting all the oxygen in there. Although going from 2 suits to 16 is one go probably exacerbated that problem for me.
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Jan 8, 2020 05:36
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LonsomeSon posted:Wait, if you submerge containers full of Chlorine in a same-size vat of germy water, it purifies it same as if you hand tanked germy water in a chlorine room? My water is still germ-free though as I've been extremely diligent with my sources. 90+ cycles with no food poisoning. I'm about to hit slime in every direction though.
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Jan 8, 2020 05:36
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You know what? I could be spending this time cleaning my actual apartment.
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Jan 8, 2020 05:40
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