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I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt that they'll retool things in the back half now that they've seen what doesn't work
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Jan 8, 2020 02:19
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Xelkelvos posted:Yeah. I feel like it's running on the inertia from having a lesbian lead or maybe other people are more forgiving of its glaring flaws. I think the Bat(man) name still carries some weight.
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Jan 8, 2020 09:25
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Batwoman s2: You made everyone horny for a second season
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Jan 8, 2020 13:11
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It will just be more Beth is still inside Alice! We can't arrest her and send her to Arkham even though she just butchered an entire wing of a children's Hospital! She had a bad childhood!
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Jan 8, 2020 18:31
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So Crisis didn't wipe Sophie from the face of the Earth, disappointing. Also, heh Scarecrow incident.
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Jan 20, 2020 02:09
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That little nod acknowledging Oliver's death post crisis was pretty cool.
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Jan 20, 2020 05:11
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Vietnamwees posted:That little nod acknowledging Oliver's death post crisis was pretty cool. Yeah that was nice. I'm also digging the continuing acknowledgement that the MCU is a thing in the Arrowverse so they can namedrop Marvel heroes and actors without it being weird.
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Jan 20, 2020 05:13
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Am I crazy or have they completely reversed Alice's plan/motivation? Before the break her whole deal was "You had your chance to save Beth, she's gone now, stop trying to be family, all of you have to burn" and now she's trying to make a family with Mouse and Kate? Don't get me wrong, it's a much better way to go, and if that had been her story from the start I think the character and show would have been stronger for it. The change was just obvious and jarring from her first scene. I also love the show already taking advantage of the new combined universe by having Kara write Kate's big coming-out article
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Jan 20, 2020 05:39
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ShakeZula posted:Am I crazy or have they completely reversed Alice's plan/motivation? Before the break her whole deal was "You had your chance to save Beth, she's gone now, stop trying to be family, all of you have to burn" and now she's trying to make a family with Mouse and Kate? Don't get me wrong, it's a much better way to go, and if that had been her story from the start I think the character and show would have been stronger for it. The change was just obvious and jarring from her first scene. Alice’s plan always was “I want to be sisters with Kate again, but on my crazyass mass-murdering terms.” And that has always included “gently caress everyone else in the extended Kane family.” So no, there’s no contradiction here.
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Jan 20, 2020 05:44
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Oh gently caress, Crisis split Beth and Alice into two separate people. poo poo, this just nutty.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:00
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nine-gear crow posted:Oh gently caress, Crisis split Beth and Alice into two separate people. poo poo, this just nutty. Yeah, I did NOT see that coming.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:09
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I love how they seeded that reveal into the episode by having a Mary see Beth at Gotham U, but the audience (or at least me) just assumed it was Mouse creating a distraction for Alice.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:11
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Yeah, I enjoyed the small little things of Maddow acknowledging Oliver's death and Kara writing Batwoman's coming out article for Catco. The big question Post-Crisis is how the Earth Prime change actually affects the shows and that stuff is small but nice to see some acknowledgement. Also Kate and Kara being immediate trusted friends is just awesome. But holy poo poo, if Crisis split Beth and Alice that's loving crazy. So in that case I guess they're twins and Alice was lost/kidnapped but Beth made it out with Kate and grew up with her and Mary? My mind is blown. I wonder if its just some other villain with powers or something but I guess for now we gotta assume Crisis. And yeah, Alice's thing has always been that Beth is dead but Kate should be Alice's true sister. Or something vaguely like that. If Beth is a whole new sister that complicates stuff if just because it adds a sister to the dynamic (and apparently a twin). But Alice has always been a raving psycho who wants Kate to be a raving psycho with her. I'm also kind of excited for Kate to get a genius hacker teenage sidekick with an established code name. I think one of the biggest problems has been the lack of team ensemble chemistry and there's no way she doesn't get called in when Luke and Kate can't figure some computer thing out. Team Batwoman is a step in the right direction.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:17
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The trailer had nobody else know WTF either so if it's Crisis weirdness it's not the same flavor as Supergirl. But who knows.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:22
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Bruceski posted:The trailer had nobody else know WTF either so if it's Crisis weirdness it's not the same flavor as Supergirl. But who knows. It's two different types of shows. Supergirl's all "Crisis poo poo, just another day at the office". Batwoman's all "Crisis poo poo--WHAT THE CHRIST  ?!", doubly so because it's the new kid in the already hosed up universe.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:28
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The trailer had them confused but I don't think it specifically said why. I dunno. I didn't pay close attention. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if this is some other thing since its odd Kate's dad didn't bring her up or Mary. Or that Beth wasn't more involved with the whole "Dad is in jail for killing our stepmom because he was set up by my identical twin" thing or a topic of Kate and Alice's or Alice and Mouse's convos. I guess it could all be explained by Beth being estranged or something but I dunno. The element of Mary seeing her earlier confuses me more. So yeah... I'm kind of 50/50 on it. If it ain't Crisis kudos for the writers for playing games with the timing.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:30
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I know the CW shows have never been good at showing the characters having any sort of civilian life but my eyes got dangerously close to rolling out of my head when hacker girl immediately recognized Kate and talked about her like she's some LGBT icon because she passes by her real estate firm that she just started like two episodes ago (which is weird because it seems like she's still operating out of Bruce Wayne's office? I guess maybe there's a big Kane Realty sign on the side of Wayne Tower now) and started talking about how she's a big lesbian CEO under 30*. Like, I get that they're trying to make Kate Kane a little more well known, like Bruce Wayne is (pretty sure comics Kate is a famous socialite like Bruce though it's been a while since I've read her in a non team book) but I feel like this version of Kate should elicit more of a Luthor-Flash "I have no idea who you are" moment. *sadly I can buy that there are probably so few lesbian CEOs under 30 that Kate's hardly-a-business is newsworthy by virtue of existing.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:55
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I don't think its especially new or implausible for the show, even if it hasn't really been a thing they've focused on. Mary is a "social media influencer" and trendy local celebrity. Bruce Wayne was Bruce Wayne. Her dad was running the PMC that was basically running the town and he and her stepmom were standing with the mayor at that thingie in the pilot. And Luke mentioned a couple of times in the episode that Kate was the "most famous person in Gotham" on account of her dad being arrested for killing his wife after confessing to some kind of crimes in front of all the city's elite right while the town's most recent serial killer was gonna kill them all... or something. I'm shaky on the macguffins of the midseason finale. They definitely were pressing the subject this episode to set that up, but I dont think its really a reach that an intelligent LGBTQ teen in crisis would recognize her. She's crazy rich, gorgeous, openly gay, mysterious, recently returned, politically connected, and surrounded by scandal and gossip. Kate Kane's probably a regular topic of gossip rags. But yeah, I don't think Kate is some icon. She's just a famous local LGBTQ representative who Terrier kind of focused on when she was in crisis about being outed and what it meant for her life.
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Jan 20, 2020 07:10
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I just started the episode and every time I see Alice and imagine the Punisher or the Comedian or someone else just coming up and pop her. God drat she sucks and the plot revolving around her constantly just drags this show down.
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Jan 20, 2020 07:26
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I really love Alice. 
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Jan 20, 2020 07:29
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STAC Goat posted:I really love Alice. She's a hack character. OOh look I'm crazy so i'm super into Alice In Wonderland ! Ooooh how original! The only character worse than her is Sophie. I like how the integration is subtle. Metropolis is mentioned, Kara wrote the article about Batwoman being Super Gay and its in CatCo magazine. Though Beth being alive and not terrible in every way is less subtle.
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Jan 20, 2020 07:55
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I mean... a Bat villain has a dumb rear end gimmick they take to 11 to frame their psychosis? I really like what the actress does with the character even if I agree with the general criticisms that we've gotten too much of the family drama and not enough other Gotham madness. Dunno. Each their own.
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Jan 20, 2020 08:01
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STAC Goat posted:I mean... a Bat villain has a dumb rear end gimmick they take to 11 to frame their psychosis? I really like what the actress does with the character even if I agree with the general criticisms that we've gotten too much of the family drama and not enough other Gotham madness. I mean, Alice is kind of 1000% irredeemable in my eyes at this point, so having Post-Crisis Beth here now gives them an off ramp to actually take her out clean if they wanted to now. Unless they kill Beth immediately or eventually in favour of More Alice, that would probably be the most boneheaded move they could pull. They at least seem to be showing some signs of learning from the criticism the show got at the start and are willing to entertain changes here and there.
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Jan 20, 2020 08:10
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A lot of this episode felt very self-congratulatory. All the stuff about Kate being a gay super hero and protagonist in her own show was just real "look what a good thing we're doing!"howe_sam posted:I love how they seeded that reveal into the episode by having a Mary see Beth at Gotham U, but the audience (or at least me) just assumed it was Mouse creating a distraction for Alice. Also, how is Mary having so much trouble convincing people that someone could create a perfect disguise like that? There were already metahumans in the world before the crossover and now there are aliens too. STAC Goat posted:I'm also kind of excited for Kate to get a genius hacker teenage sidekick with an established code name. I think one of the biggest problems has been the lack of team ensemble chemistry and there's no way she doesn't get called in when Luke and Kate can't figure some computer thing out. Team Batwoman is a step in the right direction. twistedmentat posted:I just started the episode and every time I see Alice and imagine the Punisher or the Comedian or someone else just coming up and pop her. God drat she sucks and the plot revolving around her constantly just drags this show down.
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Jan 20, 2020 10:02
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Tiggum posted:A lot of this episode felt very self-congratulatory. All the stuff about Kate being a gay super hero and protagonist in her own show was just real "look what a good thing we're doing!" It was the perfect center of the Venn diagram between "self-congratulatory claptrap" and "actually correct when you think about it," at least in regard to hacker girl's little speech to Batwoman when she's caught.
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Jan 20, 2020 10:12
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Tiggum posted:Seems like she's a bit too similar to Luke. I'm keen for Kate to get some more allies, but there doesn't seem to be much need for another tech genius. But really it’s not about their usefulness, it’s just about having people around for Kate to bond with and get support from and just be human. I just don’t think there’s a chance in hell that was a one off. We’re seeing that kid again soon.
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Jan 20, 2020 11:38
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Tiggum posted:My question is, why didn't Kate assume it was Mouse? Alice is in custody, and this person who looks exactly like her shows up? How is "it's Mouse" not your first, second and third guess as to what's going on there? Kate went for the face first thing. It stayed on.
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Jan 20, 2020 17:37
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nine-gear crow posted:Oh gently caress, Crisis split Beth and Alice into two separate people. poo poo, this just nutty. It's not really a split, Beth is probably from another Earth. Calling it now, Alive will kidnap Beth and traumatize/brainwash her into another Alice.
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Jan 20, 2020 17:45
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I fell off a while back but lemme get this straight, they changed Kate and Alice being twins and ?? gave Alice a diff twin instead??? if true i almost wanna pick it back up. Her actress is camp in the best way.
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Jan 20, 2020 18:04
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No, Alice/Beth and Kate are fraternal twins. Suddenly there's a Beth and an Alice because of Crisis.
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Jan 20, 2020 18:07
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Or more generally, it was Alice/Kate until the last 30 seconds of the latest episode. Now Beth's here and nobody knows WTF.
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Jan 20, 2020 19:02
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excellent. also I must have missed something when I was watching still, thought they ditched the twin angle rather than going fraternal. Which is for the best tho tryna watch Ruby Rose attempt to play two charactets woulda been comedy gold.
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Jan 20, 2020 19:52
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esperterra posted:excellent. also I must have missed something when I was watching still, thought they ditched the twin angle rather than going fraternal. Which is for the best tho tryna watch Ruby Rose attempt to play two charactets woulda been comedy gold. They’d probably just give one of them a scar or an eyepatch or something to differentiate between the two.
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Jan 20, 2020 20:25
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There's a certain wig that nobody is using anymore...
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Jan 20, 2020 21:12
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I was confused at the end when Kate was freaking out at Beth, the first thing I noticed was that she had dark hair, so why was she freaking out that it was Alice?
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Jan 20, 2020 21:14
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Because she looked like Alice, claimed to be her, and its not rational to assume multiverse altering doppelgangers at first instinct? Also they've literally been dealing with a villain who looks like other people.
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Jan 21, 2020 00:01
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STAC Goat posted:Because she looked like Alice, claimed to be her, and its not rational to assume multiverse altering doppelgangers at first instinct? Also they've literally been dealing with a villain who looks like other people. Plus Alice has a habit of showing up randomly in places sometimes wearing flimsy disguises specifically to mess with Kate. So Kate was completely justified in jumping to "NOT TODAY, BITCH!  " as her first reaction. Only it turned out to actually not be Alice this time.
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Jan 21, 2020 00:38
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Really disappointed Dale Baskets would treat his daughter like that.
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Jan 21, 2020 01:33
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Beth used to be just one person when the show started, then she went crazy and became Alice. Now, as a result of Crisis On Infinite Earths, there is a separate Beth - another sister - and it's not clear how she'll fit into all the family dynamics already in play.
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Jan 21, 2020 02:03
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Beth might not be a doppelganger but rather just something Kate wished for subconciously when remaking the Arrowverse. As for why Alice would still be around... maybe Oliver was being a dick?
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Jan 21, 2020 02:13
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