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Where does Khalida rank, I had a lot more trouble with her than Belegar (on VH, granted).
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Jan 8, 2020 08:37
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Ristolaz posted:Gotta be khatep, skarsnik, or belegar. Malagor and morgur seem pretty rough too Khalida is way harder than Khatep, in my experience.
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Jan 8, 2020 10:29
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yikes! posted:I’d be happy if we never got an AP archer unit again Same, honestly. Maybe some very top tier WE units. And not another one, mostly I think AP shouldn't be on any unit that can arc fire.
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Jan 8, 2020 12:52
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yikes! posted:I’d be happy if we never got an AP archer unit again Counterpoint: Bone Giants and ushtabi are cool as poo poo with those huge loving bows
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Jan 8, 2020 13:05
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Things like ushabti and giant bones are fine because they massively overkill infantry. They are not efficient, more like ballista shots Things like sisters of averlorn are pure cancer through and through
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Jan 8, 2020 13:26
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My ideal fixes would be to give bows an option (like ballista's toggle) to increase range, increase arc angle, and decrease accuracy and maybe damage. They would also do minimal AP damage. Crossbows could maybe arc fire in a limited arc and would do mixed damage. Guns would only be direct fire and have tons of AP damage. Very high tier units might bend some of these rules a bit but massing AP ranged is an incredibly dominant strategy in SP right now. Also cav charge damage should be more impactful, spears should get charge reflect, and monstrous units should degrade charge reflect to charge defense.
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Jan 8, 2020 13:55
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So I guess theres a weird bug ongoing where lizards and vamps only ever recruit 1 stack aside from the dinosaur rite ? Good time to get certain achievements cheaply I suppose
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Jan 8, 2020 13:58
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toasterwarrior posted:The "hitboxes" for buildings in cities are bigger than they look, they'll gently caress with your wind spells if they're flush against walls and whatnot, even if parallel to them. Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's not specific debris or terrain objects or anything- all wind spells, even the lamest, bounce weirdly off the interior of cities and go in weird directions. If you cast them near to the interior of walls, they just don't go in the direction you told them to. Ravenfood posted:My ideal fixes would be to give bows an option (like ballista's toggle) to increase range, increase arc angle, and decrease accuracy and maybe damage. They would also do minimal AP damage. Crossbows could maybe arc fire in a limited arc and would do mixed damage. Guns would only be direct fire and have tons of AP damage. Very high tier units might bend some of these rules a bit but massing AP ranged is an incredibly dominant strategy in SP right now.
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Jan 8, 2020 14:48
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Archers having the accuracy to shoot a literal person in a massive volley over a wall should be removed. Shots have massive spread—> you cant juke shots anymore. Buff infantry too, make shields worth more life or whatever. Biggest thing is how ranged doesnt waste any shots ever and its total bullshit
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Jan 8, 2020 15:47
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I would like shields to be buffer but i would also like non shield units to be more killy to make up for being loving plastered by archers existing.
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Jan 8, 2020 16:11
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I would like to sign up for your newsletter, because all of these things sound great. I would love to see higher arc mean a decrease in accuracy but an increase in AP or something; right now high arc shots are incredibly accurate, even over walls at targets no unit on my side can see! I love abusing it in sieges but its pretty silly. dogstile posted:I would like shields to be buffer but i would also like non shield units to be more killy to make up for being loving plastered by archers existing. In other news, the fact that the AI Skaven army that spawns during Malus' quest starts with a Nuke is kind of bullshit.
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Jan 8, 2020 16:37
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Aside from their accuracy against targets they themselves can’t see (especially firing over walls during sieges) I guess I don’t see the issue with how things are now. There are what, two factions with common access to arcing AP damage? And in both cases it’s pretty core to the identity of the faction and they have other areas of weakness. All other AP bow damage comes from elite units.
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Jan 8, 2020 17:15
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Ristolaz posted:Gotta be khatep, skarsnik, or belegar. Malagor and morgur seem pretty rough too never played through a skarsnik campaign. lil goblin blenders it is!
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Jan 8, 2020 17:50
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Anno posted:Aside from their accuracy against targets they themselves can’t see (especially firing over walls during sieges) I guess I don’t see the issue with how things are now. There are what, two factions with common access to arcing AP damage? And in both cases it’s pretty core to the identity of the faction and they have other areas of weakness. All other AP bow damage comes from elite units. Every missile unit in the game (especially especially ap damage) is too good and better than equivalent melee. Quarrelers, darkshards, handguns, gunnery mobs, waywatchers etc etc All overperform when looking at cost. So. They need balancing Shogun 2 was great in That regard. Ranged play was good, but not gamebreaking. You needed a good mix
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Jan 8, 2020 18:24
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Ravenfood posted:In other news, the fact that the AI Skaven army that spawns during Malus' quest starts with a Nuke is kind of bullshit.
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Jan 8, 2020 18:27
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Wild Horses posted:Every missile unit in the game (especially especially ap damage) is too good and better than equivalent melee. FotS though. The issue is that the AI will happily run into your Armstrong guns rather than try to counter you. Having worked an 1860s Armstrong breachloading six pounder irl, let me confirm that even that tiny version is both terrifying to be shot with, and very slow and vulnerable if one were to notice it was shooting and take even the minimum effort to go round and murder the crew. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 19:11
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yeah armstrong guns were seriously overtuned and way too pinpoint accurate.
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Jan 8, 2020 19:46
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Wild Horses posted:Every missile unit in the game (especially especially ap damage) is too good and better than equivalent melee. Ehhh, Shogun 2 was hardly exempt. You could play Chosokabe and feather everyone to death while maintaining a poo poo frontline of Ashigaru the exact same way you play High Elves in TWW2, and that's not even counting FotS which was basically "every army is an Ikit Doomstack once you unlock the most basic artillery". Hell, bullshit archer spam is a thing in Medieval 2, even - playing as Milan and stacking magical pavise-shielded crossbowmen or playing as England and stacking magical longbowmen that outshot every single other ranged unit in the game and could Agincourt the gently caress out of every army you met.
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Jan 8, 2020 19:48
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I disagree with the chosokabe. daikyu bows and bow warrior monks are strong but they're heavy investments. A similar investment in big heavy katana/naginata blobs might give you a victory in that battle. Bows aren't killy enough in shogun 2, and they really shine during defenses and river crossing battles as well as sieges. FOTS is a different beast, and artillery was stupid there. Line battles were totally fine there though. my point concerning warhammer 2 is still standing though. A big section of the tactical game is basically irrelevant due to overabundance of A specific type of unit that counters every other unit in the game (the AP archer)
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Jan 8, 2020 20:05
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Agreed. Death to the AP archer.
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Jan 8, 2020 20:20
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While I generally agree that ranged units are just too good at doing reliable damage, a broad nerf to missile troops alone would shift things in favour of large entities, which weren't a thing in other versions of Total War.
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Jan 8, 2020 20:26
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making cav faster, more deadly, have more mass and charges instantly kill models would probably fix at least part of the archer problem. also archers should fire shots in a more "cloud of arrows" way and not perfectly focus. So a smaller unit like a heavy cav unit won't get peppered as much. then the cav can totally get blown out by spears and we have a nice rock paper scissors of archers>inf>cav>archers large units get countered by other large units, or a combination of heroes, spears and archers. Seems balanced to me. They will destroy things but are big targets. Artillery should take them out too.
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Jan 8, 2020 20:28
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The Crotch posted:While I generally agree that ranged units are just too good at doing reliable damage, a broad nerf to missile troops alone would shift things in favour of large entities, which weren't a thing in other versions of Total War. Yes, large entities would start dominating, but as it is it's weird that large monsters can happily waltz into crowds of their erstwhile counter and go to town. Right now you need AP ranged to deal with the single entities. If you nerfing ranged, especially AP ranged, you could also play around with single entity health, defense, etc. Or, as I mentioned, if you mostly nerfed arcing shots, you could keep archers as effective against large targets by letting them direct-fire against them (since they're so large), which could perform similarly to the current system minus the AP. Basically, I'd like to see archers have two fire modes: one direct like handgunners that is as powerful as it is now (minus AP damage) and an volley fire that gives them their current fire arc that is much less accurate, but longer range. Those units that do keep a tiny bit of AP damage would lose it during this arc mode. Crossbows would keep their current damage, lose some AP damage, and get an arc mode that has some arc, but not much. IIRC WH1 release crossbows had some ability to fire over defensive lines, but not much. If they fired in an arc, they'd also lose all AP and some accuracy. If you could do all that, I think the only thing you'd shift things in favor of would be large, armored single-entity monsters. Unarmored ones would fare about as well as they do now, I think. You could tweak their armor or health to match I suppose.
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Jan 8, 2020 20:53
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Wild Horses posted:I disagree with the chosokabe. daikyu bows and bow warrior monks are strong but they're heavy investments. A similar investment in big heavy katana/naginata blobs might give you a victory in that battle. Bows aren't killy enough in shogun 2, and they really shine during defenses and river crossing battles as well as sieges. You don't even need the big boys to kill everything with Chosokabe gunlines, bow samurai were enough for most of your stacks. One wound models coupled with no real shield-like mechanics made it really easy to just wreck everything with heavy enough bow fire if you wanted to. I know because I played the Chosokabe campaign like half a dozen times.  AP archers are indeed a mega problem. The original tradeoff in TWW1 was archers vs powder; archers were much easier to use due to having a fire arc, but had across-the-board poo poo AP(remember when one of the big things about orc arrer boyz was that they actually had some AP?), whereas powder units were much harder to use due to their flat trajectory but had higher damage and AP. You also had the odd AP ranged unit that had few firing restrictions but were hamstrung by horrific range or ammo capacity to keep them grounded, like marauder horsemen, centigors, and norscan hunters. TWW2 kind of tossed this balance off a bridge from the word go by including Darkshards as a loving shielded machine gun AP archer unit, which established a baseline powerlevel for TWW2 that all the new content has been arms racing. High Elves traditionally had a weakness in the ranged AP department - whoops, sisters cover that by being long range AP archers. Coast hosed up in its own way - Coast doesn't have arc fire units, but has so much powder weaponry on so many completely cheap, unbreakable units that you can just clog the entire battlefield with functionally uncounterable-by-the-AI guns that you don't care if they die. The Skaven updates did this too - the skaven war machines are already nuts and Ikit removes basically all of their limitations and weaknesses, and the new Clan Eshin DLC's solution to "how do we make Eshin armies strong" is "give every single skirmisher incredible AP". Basically, you can trace all of the problems with AP missile spam back to the decision to make Darkshards the way they are, since every subsequent bullshit overpowered ranged unit has basically been using them as a baseline yardstick.
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Jan 8, 2020 20:58
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Kinda getting tired of making Grail Knight and Guardian doomstacks in this Repanse Campaign, anyone have a link to that Tabletop Unit Cap mod? How exactly does it work? Does it just give every faction Tomb King-like unit caps based on recruitment buildings or does it put a limit on how many units of one kind can be placed in the same army?
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Jan 8, 2020 21:16
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Wild Horses posted:Every missile unit in the game (especially especially ap damage) is too good and better than equivalent melee. I guess to me it’s just hard to say that unless you just mean they’re more killy than the equivalent infantry. Like I’m not sure how to say that Gunnery Mobs are significantly better than Deckhands Mobs that tie up some actually dangerous unit for some amount of time. Unless you just mean that you’d generally like the game to be focused less on tarpitting with infantry and then killing stuff with ranged/monsters/magic.
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Jan 8, 2020 21:56
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the perfect stack is something like 5 melee units and 14 archers. Thats what i mean. It's a weird meta and not especially fun. the chaotic melee, outflanking, two-on-ones, layering units, elites on a flank making a difference, the cavalry duel. Good use of numbers, encirclements. things like that are fun. And are basically absent from the game if you play "optimally".
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Jan 8, 2020 22:11
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AngryBooch posted:Kinda getting tired of making Grail Knight and Guardian doomstacks in this Repanse Campaign, anyone have a link to that Tabletop Unit Cap mod? You have ten special points and 5 rare points. Units are divided between core, special, and rare, and then given point costs in between that. For example a star dragon is 3 rare points, while a frostheart phoenix is one. This is per stack so you can as many star dragons as you have generals. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1456828999 Are you complaining about campaign or multiplayer balance? Since in MP HE's strengths are dragon princes, dragons, and Alarielle. Even DE don't really rely on shades or darkshards. The only AP archer that is actually a true terror is waystalkers because of fire while moving and snipe. As for that theoretical doomstack it's no different in a gunpower faction. What makes Ikit's WW1 gunline or mass handguns for VCoast any better? I'd be fine with a general tonedown of ranged power in favor of melee as that'd match TT better but it's not ap archers fault. Eimi fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 22:22
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Wild Horses posted:the perfect stack is something like 5 melee units and 14 archers. Thats what i mean. It's a weird meta and not especially fun. I think that needs to be a host of other changes though, really. I like that ranged units feel good and punchy while usually dying quickly if you get cav or dogs or a dragon on top of them, but I only bring 2-4 in most armies because as you said it’s more fun to have a variety. Nerfing a bunch of units to basically prevent AI cheesing seems bad. Like if they nerfed lords/heroes to run away if they were surrounded by tons of infantry just so people wouldn’t AI cheese that way it’d suck. Anno fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 22:27
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are lizardmen meant to be super boring to play as?
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Jan 8, 2020 23:30
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juggalo baby coffin posted:are lizardmen meant to be super boring to play as? At the start of the campaign, if you pick krokgar or gorrok, yes You should pick TiqTaqTo
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Jan 8, 2020 23:37
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juggalo baby coffin posted:are lizardmen meant to be super boring to play as? If you don't like monster mash and/or have little tolerance for the jungle map, yes. All except Tehenuin are very straight forward to play unless you go out of your way to mix up your unit composition.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:52
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It's basically the start of a Rome Total War campaign when all you have access to are Hastati and Velites.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:55
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Ristolaz posted:At the start of the campaign, if you pick krokgar or gorrok, yes i tried tiqtaqto but got owned cause now the emprie army you start next to has a huntsmaster general guy who can just snipe tiqtaqto to death
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Jan 8, 2020 23:58
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khalida legendary isnt too hard, you mostly have to be patient and get that third army. ive drowned two high tier lizardmen stacks in unending waves of skeleton spears. khalida herself doesnt seem very potent but maybe itll ramp up once i get ushabti bows. skarsniks start is a loving headache. the dwarf in your capital has 3 full stacks of dwarf warriors by turn 20. good luck with that poo poo
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Jan 9, 2020 00:27
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khalida plus a few bone giants and ushabti bows is good as hell. also her skeleton bows are solid, even though they're weak haha
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Jan 9, 2020 00:32
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juggalo baby coffin posted:are lizardmen meant to be super boring to play as? Yeah basically. Skaven are the anti-lizards tho.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:51
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Skaven kind of end up the same way where going full on massed ranged with them is amazingly fun at first but so powerful and easy that it ends up making the campaign just as bland as the saurus steamroller.
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Jan 9, 2020 01:22
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Kanos posted:Skaven kind of end up the same way where going full on massed ranged with them is amazingly fun at first but so powerful and easy that it ends up making the campaign just as bland as the saurus steamroller. I disagree, ranged units were absolute poo poo in warhammer 1 and with warhammer 2 they're viable and work fine. There's lots of fiddle to skaven deployment and I'd say the biggest advantage ranged units have over melee units at this point is that difficulty scaling basically doesn't affect them in any way. I guess you could make the argument that due to that, on VH battle difficulty it's a lot more viable to go with ranged missiles than melee units and for sure, that's accurate. To me that seems more like an issue of the difficulty scaling than the units themselves. There's probably a good balance point in there, but having Ranged actually be viable in WH2 rather than almost always inferior to cav / melee units to me adds variety, not removes it.
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Jan 9, 2020 01:26
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I disagree, ranged units were absolute poo poo in warhammer 1 and with warhammer 2 they're viable and work fine. There's lots of fiddle to skaven deployment and I'd say the biggest advantage ranged units have over melee units at this point is that difficulty scaling basically doesn't affect them in any way. I guess you could make the argument that due to that, on VH battle difficulty it's a lot more viable to go with ranged missiles than melee units and for sure, that's accurate. I'm...not sure what this reply has to do with skaven gunlines being monstrously overpowered, but I'll engage the post. I have no idea what you're talking about with ranged being "absolute poo poo" in Warhammer 1, because it's either a complete fantasy or you were playing a very weird version of TWW1. Dwarfs were the most popular newbie faction in TWW1 specifically because they could make a wall of some warriors/longbeards/ironbreakers and shoot literally everyone to death with masses of quarrelers and artillery, no micro needed. Empire could gunline basically anything to death with a proper checkerboard and had the original Necrofex Doomstack with steam tanks. Wood Elves at release - after their initial hotfix buff to fix their bad numbers that came out less than a week from their launch - were capable of ranged stacks that could delete endgame chaos invasion stacks before they approached melee combat. TWW2 basically just continued this trend by giving the TWW2 factions access to even better ranged units.
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Jan 9, 2020 01:38
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