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Shodai? This poll is closed. |
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| Cool |
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21 | 75.00% |
| Nah |
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7 | 25.00% |
| Total: | 28 votes | ||
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Rigel posted:Fans like to throw their cushions when they see a kinboshi (gold star victory). Some venues have reacted to this practice by literally nailing the cushions down onto the floor, but some other venues still have throwable cushions. oh I assumed they were rioting because the fave just lost decisively to a young upstart.
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Jan 8, 2020 18:24
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coconono posted:oh I assumed they were rioting because the fave just lost decisively to a young upstart. Well, they are, Kinboshi is just the usual suspect but any major upset in the last couple matches of the day will result in some pillows thrown, though I can't remember when I last saw so many, compared to that Hakuho/Asashoryu match.
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Jan 8, 2020 18:34
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I love that a few zabuton were thrown when Aminishiki henka'd Hakuho 
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Jan 8, 2020 19:05
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Brut posted:Well, they are, Kinboshi is just the usual suspect but any major upset in the last couple matches of the day will result in some pillows thrown, though I can't remember when I last saw so many, compared to that Hakuho/Asashoryu match. I wonder if people understood what they were witnessing there in the moment. You had prime Asashoryu in the midst of his prime winning 8/12 tournaments and about to launch a 7 basho streak to make a legitimate run at GOAT against an upstart 19 year old Hak in his 4th ever Makuuchi tournament even before his first appearance at Sanyaku.
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Jan 8, 2020 19:27
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sivad posted:PYF Hakuho, back when Aminishiki still had hair. A few things here: 1) I'm starting to see a lot of these matches where one or more of the fighters (Hakuho mostly) don't put both fists on the ground before starting. I've seen false starts called but mostly that seems to be ignored. 2) Why is the Hekma looked down upon? It's awesome.
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Jan 8, 2020 19:57
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ChrisBTY posted:A few things here: Four fists is more of a guideline than a rule, as long as someone's not getting an unfair jump.
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Jan 8, 2020 20:00
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Elissimpark posted:You might be surprised to learn that there are grumpy old men who think that this was a good quality - can't remember which oyakata praised his "spirit". Why does the guy on the right of the screen at 2:20 not have the hair tied up?
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Jan 8, 2020 20:21
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Mekchu posted:Why does the guy on the right of the screen at 2:20 not have the hair tied up? Hair's too short, Mitaekumi entered through the Tsukedashi program which means due to success in university sumo/amateur sumo/some other sumo (in his case university sumo), he got to debut at Makushita #10 in March of 2015. This is November 2015 so his hair had been growing for less than a year. That's why on sumodb his first rank is listed as "Ms10TD". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv0ExjRqz58 Here's a similar situation of newcomer Ichinojo with the extra unusual bit of this being his second Yokozuna fight despite being at M10 in his Makuuchi debut, they had him fight 2 Ozeki and 2 Yokozuna because he was crushing everyone else, I still hope that dude figures out his weight/back stuff but he probably won't. Brut fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 20:32
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ChrisBTY posted:A few things here: From an entertainment POV, henka are funny every once in awhile, especially when some idiot overcommits and goes flying but it would be boring it everyone danced around at the start instead of going for it so they are best as a change of pace move rather than a staple of your strategy. From the traditionalist/grumpy old man POV, it goes against the whole fighting spirit part of the sport as it’s seen as cowardly avoidance rather than committing to the attack.
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Jan 8, 2020 20:55
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henka is the dodge so your opponent barrels out of bounds, right? if so I like it the best because it demonstrates a higher level of mental fluidity than HIT MAN LOTS MAKE MAN BACK UP FROM LOTS HITS
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Jan 8, 2020 21:02
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coconono posted:henka is the dodge so your opponent barrels out of bounds, right? if so I like it the best because it demonstrates a higher level of mental fluidity than HIT MAN LOTS MAKE MAN BACK UP FROM LOTS HITS Yes, but specifically at the very beginning of the match. If you've had one collision of any sort afterwards everything is fair game even to grumpy old men.
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Jan 8, 2020 21:03
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Brut posted:Yes, but specifically at the very beginning of the match. If you've had one collision of any sort afterwards everything is fair game even to grumpy old men. ah, well I gotta agree with the grumpy old men, we gotta have that solid contact at least once. because poo poo rules. THUMP
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Jan 8, 2020 21:06
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These hakuho highlights are pretty amazing. I love the one where he stands back and eggs the guy on. The two false start into henka was pretty good too
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Jan 8, 2020 21:58
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Hakuho famously apologized after using a henka to defeat Harumafuji on day 15 in Haru 2016. He was 13-1, and so was Kisenosato, so if he hadn't won it would have gone to a playoff. Instead of a titanic battle of yokozuna with the championship potentially on the line he pulled a huge henka that had Harumafuji flying off the dohyo. The stadium in Osaka actually booed a bit, and everyone hated it. Some people called on him to retire, and he apologized both in the championship interview and afterward. I love Hakuho so much.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:09
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coconono posted:ah, well I gotta agree with the grumpy old men, we gotta have that solid contact at least once. because poo poo rules. THUMP Might I interest you in Harumafuji? From the old OP: quote:Harumafuji - Mongolia - Yokozuna - the smallest Yokozuna since Wakanohana, and a specialist in lightning-quick maneuvers - including the HNH (Harumafuji-non-henka) as Kintamayama calls it Basically his trademark move of turning the initial charge into a henka-esque dodge after solid contact. Unfortunately, he got kicked out of sumo for assaulting a lower ranked wrestler which kicked off a much needed crackdown on bullying and corporal punishment in the sport.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:12
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The only thing funnier than a henka is a failed henka.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:25
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I can see why a henka is legal but frowned on. Seeing someone be clever on occasion is fun, but seeing everyone be clever all the time defeats the purpose of watching obese men imitate a freight train collision.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:36
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Also, aren't henkas considered even shittier when done by a Yokozuna/Ozeki because they're supposed to be above that kind of stuff and should be good enough that they don't need to resort to it?
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Jan 8, 2020 23:44
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Henka is the sumo equivalent of putting your hand out to touch gloves and cracking / double legging your momentarily compromised opponent - perfectly legal, but you had BETTER loving win and if your opponent stuffs you he is going to be pissed.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:46
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Lexorin posted:Also, aren't henkas considered even shittier when done by a Yokozuna/Ozeki because they're supposed to be above that kind of stuff and should be good enough that they don't need to resort to it? From what I can tell, yes, Yokozuna and Ozeki ranked competitors have very high expectations on how they comport themselves both in ring and out. In fact, to make Yokozuna a collection of old men have to sit around and discuss how honourable you are, and until very recently you literally could not reach the yokozuna level of expected flawless etiquette without being ethnically Japanese.
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Jan 8, 2020 23:48
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someone post a clip of that double non henka from the last basho where Enho and his opponent just stood straight up from the tachi-ai and the ref yelled at them
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Jan 8, 2020 23:52
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It was Yutakayama vr Enho, day 8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWXZ5Sq9Xu0&t=313s
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Jan 9, 2020 00:19
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I'm so glad this thread exists to show me just how loving cool sumo is.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:21
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Lexorin posted:It was Yutakayama vr Enho, day 8 gently caress I forgot about this. And of course they did it in front of Konosuke, who is known for being stern and willing to keep rikishi in line when they try to be sloppy at the shikiri-sen (i.e. the little white lines they need to put their fists down behind before the tachi-ai). Konosuke is actually a fan favorite, although lately he's been calling way too many mattas. I just love how pissed he is in this clip.
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Jan 9, 2020 00:40
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Kenning posted:gently caress I forgot about this. And of course they did it in front of Konosuke, who is known for being stern and willing to keep rikishi in line when they try to be sloppy at the shikiri-sen (i.e. the little white lines they need to put their fists down behind before the tachi-ai). Konosuke is actually a fan favorite, although lately he's been calling way too many mattas. I just love how pissed he is in this clip. I was able to recognize him long before I could recognize any of the wrestlers
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Jan 9, 2020 00:41
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here's a odd question are there sumo groupies?
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Jan 9, 2020 04:12
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I would imagine that yes there are. Because there are groupies for loving esports of all things.
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Jan 9, 2020 06:12
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They're called "sujo", short for "sumo joshi" or "sumo girls". Here's a Japan Times article from 2018 that uses sumo girls as the hook to introduce a piece about the rising popularity of sumo in the Kisenosato era, and here's an essentially identical article from the LA Times in 1992 that similarly uses sumo girls as the hook to introduce a piece about the rising popularity of sumo in the Waka-Taka era.
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Jan 9, 2020 06:33
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here comes the spunk posted:here's a odd question I feel like of the half dozen or so "Rikishi is getting married/got married" news I've seen in the last couple years, most of them had the some line about the woman being a fan at first. These dudes live and breathe sumo though I can't really think of where else they'd meet anyone.
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Jan 9, 2020 08:25
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Some of them end up in arranged marriages, and there are families that have been in sumo for generations. The wife of a stablemaster has a number of traditional duties, including acting as a kind of surrogate mother to the younger rikishi.
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Jan 9, 2020 09:49
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Going to do my picks before I forget. Y/O: Hakuho, Kakyryu, Takakeisho S/K: Asanoyama, Daieisho, Abi M1-M5: Hokutofuji, Myogiryu, Mitakeumi M6-M10: Ryuden, Takanosho, Yutakayama M11-: Tsurugisho, Chiyotairyu, Tochiozan
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Jan 9, 2020 10:38
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From memory, the koenkai are more than just fans - they can have a big say in a rikishi's life. I recall that part the reason Akebono ended up leaving the NSK was that he alienated his koenkai by marrying someone without their approval and without their financial support, he couldn't keep his heya going.
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Jan 9, 2020 10:43
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thanks for the replies, that's pretty cool
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Jan 9, 2020 16:06
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Ishiura is allowed to compete in January, loses 20% of his salary for the month while his coach (Miyagino?) loses 20% of his salary until march. Hokaho is allowed to compete and since he doesn't have a salary, doesn't get fined. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmQ5yQUYFhQ Edit - Also includes a translation of a Hakuho interview where he says "I was brave enough to take time off" That is one hell of a statement 
Mekchu fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jan 9, 2020 |
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Jan 9, 2020 18:35
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He's not wrong. He knows by taking time off people are gonna talk poo poo and say he needs to retire or whatever, but it allows him to heal. There's huge pressure on Yokozuna to show up and perform, even if they're hurt. Ex-Kisenosato, now Araiso-oyakata, was not brave enough to take time off, so he permanently ruined his body and ended up having what can only be described as an ignominious career as a yokozuna, even though he was an excellent and reliable ozeki for years beforehand.
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Jan 9, 2020 18:50
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Kisenosato is especially tragic because if he had actually taken time off to recover and ended up having even just a passable Yokozuna career, he'd be remembered very fondly just for being the lone Japanese Yokozuna (which admittedly is also why there was probably extra pressure on him not to take time off).
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Jan 9, 2020 19:08
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Kenning posted:He's not wrong. He knows by taking time off people are gonna talk poo poo and say he needs to retire or whatever, but it allows him to heal. There's huge pressure on Yokozuna to show up and perform, even if they're hurt. Ex-Kisenosato, now Araiso-oyakata, was not brave enough to take time off, so he permanently ruined his body and ended up having what can only be described as an ignominious career as a yokozuna, even though he was an excellent and reliable ozeki for years beforehand. I didn't mean to imply he was wrong, just that it's insane he has to label it as "I'm being brave by taking care of my body so I don't end up a crippled old man." Which ties into the previous thread's discussion (and a bit of this one) about the sports culture in Japan seemingly thinking "yes you should sacrifice your health for sports" A recent example was the news about MMA fighter Kyoji Horiguchi who was basically told he had to fight with an ACL tear because Rizin needed his name on the banner to sell tickets and they guilt tripped him into it. Now he's out with a severe injury needed rehab longer than he really needed to have in the first place had they just let him heal up.
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Jan 9, 2020 19:24
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Hakuho is the hero this sport needs.
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Jan 9, 2020 20:30
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Can't remember if it's been mentioned in this new thread, but one of the reasons there are so many problems with fighting through injuries at the moment is the fact that in 2004 they removed the right to sit out one tournament without loss of rank in a supreme moment of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It was felt that too many rikishi were taking a break citing relatively minor injuries, so rather than applying scrutiny or requiring the assessment of a trusted doctor they just got rid of it altogether so now rikishi have to choose between guaranteed loss of rank but better long term health or the chance of scraping a winning record fighting through injury. It's perverse.
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Jan 9, 2020 21:22
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Tsaedje posted:Can't remember if it's been mentioned in this new thread, but one of the reasons there are so many problems with fighting through injuries at the moment is the fact that in 2004 they removed the right to sit out one tournament without loss of rank in a supreme moment of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Holy poo poo. I've got nothing to add except that this is legitimately barbaric. Is this still an active policy?
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Jan 9, 2020 21:49
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