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ikanreed posted:What if you used an upgrade planner somehow? Smart! Thanks.  Still a little problematic as i need to leave *some* instances of the thing around, but that'll speed things up.
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Jan 9, 2020 01:31
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The Locator posted:Okay, I understand the point of double-ended trains where the loco's pull in different directions. I was talking more about when people build the double-ended trains where all the loco's are going the same direction. Is that purely an aesthetic thing based on how people like their trains to look? I've always just stuck all my engines on the front end regardless of how many engines/wagons I've had, i.e. I'll build a 4-8 train instead of a 2-8-2 train. It can be useful if you're running multiple different sizes of train - if, say, you start with 2-4 trains, you've set up refueling stations that will fuel the front two locos. If you then introduce 4-8 trains, you've got to introduce a separate set of refueling stations - if a short train goes to a station that can fuel a big one, it'll end up putting fuel in some of the cargo wagons. If you instead do 2-8-2 trains, all you need to do is add refueling for the back two locos, and then every train can use the exact same refueling stations. The same can apply for loading and unloading stations as well.
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Jan 9, 2020 01:38
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Jabor posted:It can be useful if you're running multiple different sizes of train - if, say, you start with 2-4 trains, you've set up refueling stations that will fuel the front two locos. If you then introduce 4-8 trains, you've got to introduce a separate set of refueling stations - if a short train goes to a station that can fuel a big one, it'll end up putting fuel in some of the cargo wagons. No, see, what you do is hook up your Inserters to read the Output of the LTN station, and then have the enabled circuit condition only if the locomotive signal equals the binary encoded locomotive position except the goddamn inserters will still hold fuel in their arms and put them into your cargo wagons at inopportune times and and and 
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Jan 9, 2020 01:55
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Majere posted:So I burned myself out making this 18K SPM Factorio Extended Plus belt base. Wow.
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Jan 9, 2020 03:04
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The Locator posted:Purely a curiosity question - is there a reason for locos on both ends of trains? Is it just something that makes you happy or is there an actual in-game advantage for having locos at both ends? I keep the option open for double ended trains, depending on rail network. Partially aesthetic, partially to keep the station run up distance shorter/less belts. Plus i think they accellerate faster with all locos facing same direction.
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Jan 9, 2020 03:41
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Jabor posted:It can be useful if you're running multiple different sizes of train - if, say, you start with 2-4 trains, you've set up refueling stations that will fuel the front two locos. If you then introduce 4-8 trains, you've got to introduce a separate set of refueling stations - if a short train goes to a station that can fuel a big one, it'll end up putting fuel in some of the cargo wagons. This makes a lot of sense, thanks. Majere posted:I keep the option open for double ended trains, depending on rail network. Partially aesthetic, partially to keep the station run up distance shorter/less belts. Plus i think they accellerate faster with all locos facing same direction. They absolutely accelerate faster when all are facing the same direction, as the ones that are facing the 'wrong' direction are just dead weight, and weigh as much as 2 cargo wagons if I remember what I read about that correctly. Edit: doing power a bit differently this game, instead of transitioning straight from coal and/or solid fuel into nuclear, after finishing all of my red/green/grey/blue research, I stopped science, tore out all my research in preparation for building an entire new area dedicated to that being served by trains, and then started building solar. I've never done solar more than just a bit of supplemental power 'just because' before, and in one relatively short session I set up my solar production, and have deployed enough to be completely running through the night on the accumulators without ever triggering my latch on the steam power (set to turn on at 20% and off at 90%) after the 2nd night. Next up I start figuring out what I want the 'real' base to look like so I can set up the new science (Krastorio so have to figure out the chip science thing next) and maybe start pushing out of my large starter area. The Locator fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jan 9, 2020 |
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Jan 9, 2020 07:14
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Mithaldu posted:I need to find all instances of a specific type of building i placed in my game.
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Jan 9, 2020 09:07
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I needed to just find their locations to replace them with different buildings, not something that could be automated, but hey, i got them all.  
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Jan 9, 2020 09:53
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Majere posted:So I burned myself out making this 18K SPM Factorio Extended Plus belt base. Amazing. I love factories like this. I'm currently slowly building some sort of massive block based thing... that I'm now realising is only going to serve as the infrasturcture to build the materials needed to build something bigger. But I end up getting carried away with large scale depots and stations and storing massive qunatities of materials even if buffers are bad, because I enjoy it. Really digging the light up stuff at stations and warehouses. One thing I'm realising is that to really ramp up the scale and throughput for this stuff I'm going to need to start looking at some of the mods that extend the game. Recently they have been a pass for me because I'm not interested in more complexity.... but faster belts, loaders and that kind of thing. Couple of Qs: What mod are those warehouses from? What on earth does your mining setup look like for a base like this? Or is that something that you just have to "cheat" on and magic up your ore when you go this big?
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Jan 9, 2020 11:10
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Warehouses are Angels Warehouses from Angels mods, available separately. Mining is typical setup, nothing special. Trains from outposts deliver to a central depot and then dedicated trains from depot to smelter. Ore patches last a long time when you're up to mining productivity 900 something.
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Jan 9, 2020 12:08
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Cool thanks. I'll check out Angels Warehouses. Sounds like I'm on the right track with my depot setup. At the moment I'm mostly just playing around with mods to try and get crazy throughput with loaders and compactors and 1-1 trains with increased cargo capacity. But I'm really liking your station setups and am itching to get home and work on something like that.
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Jan 9, 2020 12:18
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Cool, I'll probably post some blueprints on factorioprints.com or factorio.school, but I think the stations should be easy enough to replicate from the screenshots. Stations should work with blue belts and regular stack inserters.
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Jan 9, 2020 14:38
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I never do double ended trains. It just looks rediculous to me. So I loop the track around like a big boy if I need to.
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Jan 10, 2020 04:40
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Paired track one-way rails with sidings. Just run a siding, plant your train stop, and full connectivity to every station. Just fuckin’ lol if you don’t have a personal transport work train where you dump extra useful stuff (and eventually deliver by belt) for outpost building. The southernmost station in my railyard is the FARLking Lot, and it’s also where I have all of my personal and organizational poo poo, including landfill from the IR water filtration plants’ byproducts. I was wrong about durations when I talked about it earlier; while it was hour 22 when my first automated coal train delivery arrived, it’s hour 72, not 220. I was remembering the X axis from the Production Graph, which is in multiplicative proportion to the selected duration. About 68ish hours in, I finally put together automation for Advanced Furnaces, and smelt titanium into one stack of shotgun shells, large and small chassis parts, and an installation which takes in titanium ingots and runs four titanium magazine assemblers flat out. At hour 70, it was clear that burning titanium into ammo was still not dropping swarms fast enough to prevent all spitter shots, so I finished an installation which will run 16 battery assemblers at full speed and gave up on building all the poo poo I need to start with full roboports for non-personal bots and built a bunch of the lower-tech robotowers, then cleared all of my extra bronze from rebuilding poo poo and stockpiling way too much due to ignorance, a bunch of junk wood, and three assemblers to make garbage bronze repair kits, and outpost wall breaches died off immediately since I was raiding output boxes for parts and handcrafting robots this whole time. I repurposed most of my old bronze smelting leaving just enough for science when it is running, but their spots are somehow still clear of pipelines and belts so I might actually wind up training bronze repair packs to outposts since I have the ores being delivered already and so much dump wood, plus an old greenhouse setup from like hour 9 with a bronze storehouse full of output. I continue to be convinced that something is wrong with the map generation; I have radar at every outpost for checkups/remote fixes and have scanned a ton of map without finding any Gold or Uranium. I’ve been getting by with a four-miner-sized patch of cheated-in gold ore in order not to grind to a halt by not being able to find titanium and chromium from washing iron. Since apparently the author is putting it down, I will probably push all the way through the current content and spawn in some decent gold and uranium patches out along the rail lines.
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Jan 10, 2020 06:21
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Got a question! I remember there was a mod-added hotkey, I think, that allowed me to hand-craft something first/immediately. Anyone know what it mighta been?
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Jan 12, 2020 00:03
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LonsomeSon posted:I continue to be convinced that something is wrong with the map generation; I have radar at every outpost for checkups/remote fixes and have scanned a ton of map without finding any Gold or Uranium. I’ve been getting by with a four-miner-sized patch of cheated-in gold ore in order not to grind to a halt by not being able to find titanium and chromium from washing iron. Since apparently the author is putting it down, I will probably push all the way through the current content and spawn in some decent gold and uranium patches out along the rail lines. Are you using RSO? Just use RSO if not. Trust us when we say it's better and will at least work right. I've currently got Industrial Revolution + Krastorio running and gold, uranium, sand, menarite, and the rich rocks when I don't actively disable them, all that spawning right without setting anything out of the box. (I've never seen Imersite, though. Is it something that you can only see once you unlock a certain tech or something? I'm curious, since I don't wanna get later in the game and find out I'm also having map generation issues) Apoplexy fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 00:07
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Apoplexy posted:Got a question! I remember there was a mod-added hotkey, I think, that allowed me to hand-craft something first/immediately. Anyone know what it mighta been? i think handyhands or something else with handy
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Jan 12, 2020 00:28
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Looks right, thanks! And it appears that if you disabled rich rocks in the map generation, Imersite goes with it. DOH! Well, I only wasted a few hours getting started on THAT map...
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Jan 12, 2020 00:46
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Apoplexy posted:Looks right, thanks! And it appears that if you disabled rich rocks in the map generation, Imersite goes with it. DOH! Well, I only wasted a few hours getting started on THAT map... The unique 'drill' ores in Krastorio definitely do appear at map generation without having the tech to do anything with it.
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Jan 12, 2020 01:35
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They aren't full ore fields, either. They are single deposits for a lone drill.
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Jan 12, 2020 01:56
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Apoplexy posted:Are you using RSO? Just use RSO if not. Trust us when we say it's better and will at least work right. I've currently got Industrial Revolution + Krastorio running and gold, uranium, sand, menarite, and the rich rocks when I don't actively disable them, all that spawning right without setting anything out of the box. (I've never seen Imersite, though. Is it something that you can only see once you unlock a certain tech or something? I'm curious, since I don't wanna get later in the game and find out I'm also having map generation issues) Oh yeah, of course. I couldn’t find any details as to whether IR and RSO were compatible, but elected to try and start a game with both and turn RSO off if the game crashed or threw errors. I’ve got rail lines running about two minutes south, and about four minutes to the west, and an unconscionable overall number of radars. No gold anywhere.
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Jan 12, 2020 02:28
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All the talk about LTN convinced me to try it. While I've mostly figured it out, there are two things I'm struggling with. What is the use of "encoding train positions"? And, is it somehow possible to set up a fluid provider and requester at the same station? Like, chlorinated waste water comes in, hydrochloric acid goes out, and only use one station for both.
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Jan 12, 2020 02:34
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I really wish I’d used ltn instead of trying out tsm. It’s a bad sign that it has a built in reset console command
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Jan 12, 2020 02:46
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Galvanik posted:All the talk about LTN convinced me to try it. While I've mostly figured it out, there are two things I'm struggling with. The way LTN works is that each station is either a requester or a provider, and after each delivery the train will always go back to a depot before getting it's next orders. Maybe someone smarter than me with the circuit network could make that work, but it's not the way LTN works from everything I know about it (which to be honest isn't a huge amount).
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Jan 12, 2020 02:54
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Is there some rhyme or reason behind designing large balancers? The 4 to 4 is simple, but I need 8 to 8 now and the designs are pure chaos. How do I design my own?
Travic fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 03:15
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There's a mathematical underpinning to building a "perfect" balancer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clos_network#Bene.C5.A1_network_.28m_.3D_n_.3D_2.29 If you consider each blue box there as a splitter, the middle three layers are a pair of 4-lane balancers, and then you have extra stuff at the beginning and end to mix things between them. When it actually comes to building a perfect balancer, it's going to look like chaos because you engage in extreme spaghetti to fit everything where it needs to be in as small a space as possible. Balancers are things you use often enough that it's worth putting in the effort once to get as compact a design as possible, and then re-using that everywhere. (There can also be some shenanigans where a supposedly-"perfect" balancer doesn't quite get full throughput, because belts carry discrete items rather than a continuous stream, and it can get stuck in a loop where a splitter continually picks the "wrong" item to advance. Turning it off, letting the balancer fill up, and then turning it on again will typically unstick it, or you can build a bigger balancer than you need with some unused outputs looped back to unused inputs to make it never get stuck.
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Jan 12, 2020 04:17
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Just like a 4 to 4 is 4x 2 to 2 lane balancers, aka splitters, an 8 to 8 is just 4x 4 to 4s, in two pairs. You balance lanes 1-4 and 5-8, then swap lanes (3,4) and (5,6) and run them through, and you have 1/8th of each input as the output for each lane. The thing is, there's more efficient/smarter/more compact ways to combine the 4x 4 to 4s.
Unreal_One fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 04:22
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There isn't much need to balance more than 4x4. With proper planning there really is no need. Splitters and the occasional 4x4 are useful, but more than that and its almost entirely aesthetic rather than functional.
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Jan 12, 2020 04:26
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Yeah, by the time you get big enough to really care you essentially get your balancing "for free" by putting it into a train car and then taking it back out.
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Jan 12, 2020 04:27
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Jabor posted:Yeah, by the time you get big enough to really care you essentially get your balancing "for free" by putting it into a train car and then taking it back out. I use warehouses with loaders in/out. Works fine unless I need more than 24 combined inputs + outputs.
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Jan 12, 2020 06:17
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I know the devs say it's against the spirit of the game or something, but loaders really should be vanilla.. they're a natural progression of the art of loading belts. Like.. just make them work only with storage, train cars, and the like, and still require inserters for assembly machines.
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Jan 12, 2020 07:09
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I agree, but in the end it doesn't really matter. Anyone who plays more than a game or two ends up adding mods, and loaders are one of the first additions. But then again there are the crazy people who make 10k spm with pure vanilla. Those people are something else.
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Jan 12, 2020 07:32
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Ambaire posted:I know the devs say it's against the spirit of the game or something, but loaders really should be vanilla.. they're a natural progression of the art of loading belts. Like.. just make them work only with storage, train cars, and the like, and still require inserters for assembly machines. Yeah, I agree completely. It allows me to fill a belt without doing stupid shenanigans because of how inserters prefer to put stuff only on one side of a belt. I also think that the ability to choose which side of a belt an inserter drops on should be in vanilla, even if the ability to do side-inserting isn't (although that's pretty drat nice to have also). Edit - Re: Assemblers and loaders. I don't use loaders with assemblers much, because they fill up the assembler with massive amounts of materials instead of just enough for the next cycle or two.
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Jan 12, 2020 08:04
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Jabor posted:There's a mathematical underpinning to building a "perfect" balancer: That's really cool. I'll have to play around with that some. The main reason I need some balancers is I have trains of different lengths. For instance my Copper plate station has room for 4 cargo wagons. Some trains are one or two wagons long though because the subfactories they service don't need that much copper. So the first two loading spots get emptied more. I suppose the answer would be just to use nothing but 4 wagons to pull from them equally.
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Jan 12, 2020 17:52
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Ambaire posted:I know the devs say it's against the spirit of the game or something, but loaders really should be vanilla.. they're a natural progression of the art of loading belts. Like.. just make them work only with storage, train cars, and the like, and still require inserters for assembly machines. Has it been fixed so that loaders can now (un)load train cars without causing a big performance hit?
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Jan 12, 2020 18:00
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Travic posted:That's really cool. I'll have to play around with that some. The main reason I need some balancers is I have trains of different lengths. For instance my Copper plate station has room for 4 cargo wagons. Some trains are one or two wagons long though because the subfactories they service don't need that much copper. So the first two loading spots get emptied more. I suppose the answer would be just to use nothing but 4 wagons to pull from them equally. I treat trains of different size as fundamentally different from each other as trains of different products. A train that stops at "iron ore source 4" will never go to an "iron ore sink 2," only "iron ore sink 4". It hurts a bit because more distant ore piles that get bigger trains do end up routing through an intermediate stop to be split into two shorter trains, and that's a big buffer right there, but it's less painful than restructuring old cells to support longer trains or dealing with the chaos that comes from zillions of short trains getting repeatedly tugged off to the far edges of the network.
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Jan 12, 2020 18:04
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Ignoranus posted:Has it been fixed so that loaders can now (un)load train cars without causing a big performance hit? The miniloader mod uses inserters under the hood, the UPS impact is far less than the loaders that use a LUA script to work.
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Jan 12, 2020 18:05
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0.18 sure is pretty, but playing without QOL mods is a drag.
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Jan 21, 2020 15:17
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Ariza posted:0.18 sure is pretty, but playing without QOL mods is a drag. To clarify: Factorio 0.18 was released a few hours ago. Link to giant changelog
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Jan 21, 2020 16:06
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I just started a week's vacation.. Oh no.
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Jan 21, 2020 16:53
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