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ImpAtom posted:Ultros' literal entire personality is "haha, he makes weird passes at female characters and acts egotistical around men'. Like that's literally the character. It's terrible that it's impossible to change a character. Like, if you try to trim back the troublesome aspects of the character, the words just... re-form, immune to alteration, immutable and permanent.
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Jan 11, 2020 03:53
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I'm trying to remember FF6, and I think he was only pervy in the very first encounter, and for the rest of it he's just the designated comic relief villain? Like Gilgamesh in FF5 but with zero panache instead of tons. So while I wouldn't try to claim that perving isn't part of his character, I also don't think it's his defining characteristic.
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Jan 11, 2020 03:54
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm trying to remember FF6, and I think he was only pervy in the very first encounter, and for the rest of it he's just the designated comic relief villain? Like Gilgamesh in FF5 but with zero panache instead of tons. So while I wouldn't try to claim that perving isn't part of his character, I also don't think it's his defining characteristic. Yeah, there's been other uses of his character that didn't really lean in that direction. Because like I said, he's a bunch of small jokes crammed into one character, so there's a few places you could take that. I remember XIII-2 has him in a bonus boss fight that expands on his double act with Typhon, and World of Final Fantasy brings him in to riff on the opera scene.
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Jan 11, 2020 04:02
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Screaming Idiot posted:It's terrible that it's impossible to change a character. Like, if you try to trim back the troublesome aspects of the character, the words just... re-form, immune to alteration, immutable and permanent. I don't like the jokes but outside of that particular aspect of the character and "haha, he thinks he's not just an octopus" that is literally the entirety of his character and if you change it then there's not a ton of reason to use the character. If you want to argue "maybe just don't use Ultros anymore" that's fine but don't act like the character with 2 personality traits is being done dirty. Cleretic posted:Yeah, there's been other uses of his character that didn't really lean in that direction. Because like I said, he's a bunch of small jokes crammed into one character, so there's a few places you could take that. I remember XIII-2 has him in a bonus boss fight that expands on his double act with Typhon, and World of Final Fantasy brings him in to riff on the opera scene. He literally has a line about how he likes both pretty girls AND pretty boys when he shows up in FFXIII-2
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Jan 11, 2020 04:05
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ImpAtom posted:I don't like the jokes but outside of that particular aspect of the character and "haha, he thinks he's not just an octopus" that is literally the entirety of his character and if you change it then there's not a ton of reason to use the character. Perhaps... a character can have many jokes...
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Jan 11, 2020 04:09
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WoFF introduces him by having him try to perv on Terra. And then he makes a Trogdor reference.
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Jan 11, 2020 04:10
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Screaming Idiot posted:Perhaps... a character can have many jokes... A character can. Ultros has 2. He is a memorable subboss who got pushed to memeish popularity but he has something like 10 lines of dialogue in the entirety of FF6 and everything he's done since then has been based off those 10 lines. It's the problem with a joke boss being frequently reoccurring because they are going to be repeating their same jokes over and over. (See also: Gilgamesh)
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Jan 11, 2020 04:16
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jokes posted:This wasn't a "everyone else hates women" thing I believe. She was just a junior writer and couldn't 'protect' characters she made/liked. Since then she's got a lot more presence. Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to imply she was deliberately being undermined by sexism or anything. It's just very unfortunate that it kept happening and almost constantly to the few female characters that would get fleshed out and developed (probably because they were created solely to get killed off for the plot but no one knew except the lead writer or something.) And now we've got a much better stable of characters, and even characters who previously didn't have much identity or personality have been able to grow and develop in better ways. Alisaie has become one of the best of the main cast when original she was just "the twin of that annoying guy, gets captured and vanishes for a while." And even her brother, Alphinaud, has become a way better character since the ARR and heavensward days where he mostly just existed to make the same dumb mistakes over and over again and then complain to the player character about how he kept making mistakes.
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Jan 11, 2020 04:17
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ImpAtom posted:A character can. Ultros has 2. He is a memorable subboss who got pushed to memeish popularity but he has something like 10 lines of dialogue in the entirety of FF6 and everything he's done since then has been based off those 10 lines. It's the problem with a joke boss being frequently reoccurring because they are going to be repeating their same jokes over and over. (See also: Gilgamesh) Screaming Idiot posted:It's terrible that it's impossible to change a character. Like, if you try to trim back the troublesome aspects of the character, the words just... re-form, immune to alteration, immutable and permanent.
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Jan 11, 2020 04:23
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If you trim the bad parts away from Ultros you're left with nothing.
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Jan 11, 2020 04:26
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Zanzibar Ham posted:If you trim the bad parts away from Ultros you're left with nothing. An annoying snaggle-toothed octopus who pops up in unlikely places as a running gag boss fight is a fun concept. And it's also possible to have him be flirty without being creepy. "Heeeeey, good-lookin'!" "Ew, no!" "I was talking to the mirror, lady. But hey, you ain't so bad yourself! What say we split a bottle of salmon roe and watch the sunset together?" "The only thing I'm going to split is your skull!" *boss fight ensues, Ultros escapes* "Criiiipes! Y'do know octopuses are invertebrates, right? No bones, no skull! Maybe if you boned up on your oceanic anatomy, you'da finished the job proper! Adios, ma'am!" Not funny, but it keeps every aspect of his character without being a sex-pest.
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Jan 11, 2020 04:33
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If you think something with tentacles from a Japanese company isn’t gonna be sexually depraved you haven’t been paying attention
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Jan 11, 2020 04:37
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Not having played anything Ultros has been in since FF6, it strikes me as really weird that that's where they went with his character, especially since I can only recall one line that could be interpreted as pervy. He was just your average cartoonishly incompetent recurring villain, with the added meta joke of being the obligatory octopus boss at the end of a water dungeon who keeps showing up after the one instance where you'd expect to see him. None of the Ninja Turtles reboots had a rapey Bebop & Rocksteady, did they?
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Jan 11, 2020 04:50
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John Murdoch posted:Also reminder that they even included him in Primal. 
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Jan 11, 2020 05:29
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oldpainless posted:If you think something with tentacles from a Japanese company isn’t gonna be sexually depraved you haven’t been paying attention This is the thing that people always forget. Like at this point in the history of the world, "tentacle" + "Japan" is gonna be some sort of sex meme, no matter what.
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Jan 11, 2020 06:07
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Far Cry Primal is probably the only Far Cry game I'd ever want to play. And I think that Ancestors ape evolution game from last year is the only other Ubisoft game I'd want to play. Unperson_47 has a new favorite as of 06:19 on Jan 11, 2020 |
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Jan 11, 2020 06:15
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Unperson_47 posted:Far Cry Primal is probably the only Far Cry game I'd ever want to play. Far Cry games are about killing people exclusively with a bow and arrow so the lack of modern weaponry shouldn't matter.
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Jan 11, 2020 06:25
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Far Cry games are about killing people exclusively with a bow and arrow so the lack of modern weaponry shouldn't matter. There's a lot of story getting in the way of this in the main games, so I'm open to the suggestion that playing in caveman times gets to it more directly
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Jan 11, 2020 06:36
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Unperson_47 posted:And I think that Ancestors ape evolution game from last year is the only other Ubisoft game I'd want to play. That's not a Ubisoft game. It's just that the Assassin's Creed 1+2 dude made it.
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Jan 11, 2020 07:07
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Far Cry games are about killing people exclusively with a bow and arrow so the lack of modern weaponry shouldn't matter. Ahh, but Far Cry Primal is a game about killing people by throwing a limited number of spears at them, which not a lot of games do.
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Jan 11, 2020 07:12
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Currently playing through Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. I'm enjoying how much STUFF is hidden all over the place to find, and how the game encourages you to try weird things. If you only skim through rooms, your missing out on all kinds of items and helpful hints everywhere. Movable boxes conceal vents to crawl through, or health items stacked between, or hide a button to open a secret hatch. Get strong enough to move a fridge, and hey, there's a safe hidden behind it. One example in an early side mission: Adam is investigating a drug distribution ring, which is using a cleaning company as a front. When you break in to the apartment the front company is using, it's full of cleaning supplies and equipment. I wandered around, poking through piles of junk, trying to find something incriminating. As I pass by a cleaner spray-bottle on the counter, I get a prompt to spray it. So gently caress, of course I do. Spraying the bottle opens up a secret hatch with a locked safe and dead body. I know this won't be as fun the second time through, since I'll have an idea, but it's got me moving at a crawl through every room, checking all the corners high and low. I had gotten similar enjoyment from Fallout: New Vegas, once I learned how to grab on and rotate an object. There were so many random buckets and boxes full of useful stuff that you'd miss unless you dumped out the bucket. Anywho, I know exploring and trying weird poo poo is par for the course in a D:X game, but Mankind Divided seems to be doing it very well.
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Jan 11, 2020 07:47
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John Murdoch posted:That's not a Ubisoft game. It's just that the Assassin's Creed 1+2 dude made it. Oh, you're right; whoops. The only other Ubisoft game I'd play turns out to not be one. Not saying that Ancestors game is good or anything; I'm just fascinated by it and would most likely play it with Cheat Engine.
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Jan 11, 2020 07:47
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Rollersnake posted:Not having played anything Ultros has been in since FF6, it strikes me as really weird that that's where they went with his character, especially since I can only recall one line that could be interpreted as pervy. He was just your average cartoonishly incompetent recurring villain, with the added meta joke of being the obligatory octopus boss at the end of a water dungeon who keeps showing up after the one instance where you'd expect to see him. Admittedly the lines were dialed back in the Woolsey translation for obvious reasons, which everyone is probably most familiar with. This isn't really new. But I do think Screaming Idiot is trying to paint too broad a brush which, shocking I know. It has its issues with gender relations as Japanese media but by comparison it does a pretty good job.
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Jan 11, 2020 08:25
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RagnarokAngel posted:Admittedly the lines were dialed back in the Woolsey translation for obvious reasons, which everyone is probably most familiar with. This isn't really new. I always read his line in 13-2 as making fun of anime designs being all androgynous, as the line was simply "Ohh what a pretty girl you are... BUT THE BOY'S EVEN PRETTIER!" I figured he was just making fun of them.
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Jan 11, 2020 08:42
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RagnarokAngel posted:Admittedly the lines were dialed back in the Woolsey translation for obvious reasons, which everyone is probably most familiar with. This isn't really new. It wasn't me trying to use too broad a brush, it was the multiple people saying "Ultros was nothing but two molestation jokes, and therefore cannot be saved" when, well, there's nothing stopping the writers from toning it back and making an iconic character more likeable and less misogynistic.
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Jan 11, 2020 08:44
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Screaming Idiot posted:It wasn't me trying to use too broad a brush, it was the multiple people saying "Ultros was nothing but two molestation jokes, and therefore cannot be saved" when, well, there's nothing stopping the writers from toning it back and making an iconic character more likeable and less misogynistic. There really wasnt because most of his appeal is in Japan where those kind of jokes still fly. If they wrote the dumb dreck you consider jokes they could have just not included him (Also a valid option, I have no particular nostalgia for the character).
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Jan 11, 2020 08:46
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RagnarokAngel posted:There really wasnt because most of his appeal is in Japan where those kind of jokes still fly. If they wrote the dumb dreck you consider jokes they could have just not included him (Also a valid option, I have no particular nostalgia for the character). Wow, you're pretty openly hostile.
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Jan 11, 2020 08:49
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Please shut up ty
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Jan 11, 2020 09:24
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RagnarokAngel posted:There really wasnt because most of his appeal is in Japan where those kind of jokes still fly. If they wrote the dumb dreck you consider jokes they could have just not included him (Also a valid option, I have no particular nostalgia for the character). I would much prefer the joke being his own overly inflated ego as he gets in your way again like at the opera house rather than 'lol tentacles; I bet you can guess where this is going right gamers?' but that's just me. I'm only one person so it's not like my opinion's gonna get Ultros rewritten.
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Jan 11, 2020 13:04
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FruitNYogurtParfait posted:Please shut up ty SI must have like a spinner to decide what thread he bumbles into and irritates the poo poo out of every day
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Jan 11, 2020 13:08
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The Zombie Guy posted:Currently playing through Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. I'm enjoying how much STUFF is hidden all over the place to find, and how the game encourages you to try weird things. It's like the game is basically telling you "don't bother exploring, we'll tell you when you need to go somewhere."
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Jan 11, 2020 13:26
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RagnarokAngel posted:Admittedly the lines were dialed back in the Woolsey translation for obvious reasons, which everyone is probably most familiar with. This isn't really new. https://legendsoflocalization.com/final-fantasy-vi/part-03/#delicious-cuties
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Jan 11, 2020 15:24
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Then maybe they should tell all the people translating his lines to cut it out (or instead replace them with translators that can resist the temptation of pervifying the translation). Though even Japan seems to have double-downed on it, since in FF12 he only shows up if your party only has women (because he likes girls so much!). I suppose the WoFF cutscene could also be a terrible translation but the visuals kinda seem to go along with it so I dunno.
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Jan 11, 2020 15:50
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Far Cry games are about killing people exclusively with a bow and arrow so the lack of modern weaponry shouldn't matter. New Dawn has a sawblade gun that bounces the saw blades between enemies. 
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Jan 11, 2020 16:13
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Then maybe they should tell all the people translating his lines to cut it out (or instead replace them with translators that can resist the temptation of pervifying the translation). Though even Japan seems to have double-downed on it, since in FF12 he only shows up if your party only has women (because he likes girls so much!). I suppose the WoFF cutscene could also be a terrible translation but the visuals kinda seem to go along with it so I dunno. It could be one of those things where the translation struck a chord that later writers picked up and ran with. Woolsey found an angle that worked better than the original translation, somehow that finds its way back to Japan and they go 'oh yeah, that works, let's go with that from now on'. Of course, Woolsey's angle there only works in moderation, giving him only a couple lines for that side of him instead of making it a full exploration. I don't know if that happened with Ultros, but it actually happened with that exact translation in another way, which counts legitimately for this thread. Kefka in the original translation isn't actually all that silly; he's a bit weird and unhinged, but he's largely a serious villain with some odd quirks that are meant to be funny in an absurd way (the best comparison I can think of right now while very tired is maybe a more cartoonish Tarantino villain). It was Woolsey's translation that decided to turn up the outright comedy with him, using that clown aesthetic to straight-up make him a Cesar Romero-style Joker. Then, come Dissidia when Square starts plumbing old Final Fantasies for crossover potential, it's that Joker angle that they use to define Kefka's character and personality rather than the original Japanese. It might be that this happens with VI specifically because VI isn't actually that popular in Japan; over there V and VI essentially swap places to how they are internationally, with V being one of the series juggernauts and VI being more of a cult hit. So they know if they're calling back to VI, the Woolsey translation's got more cultural cache than the original script. So they use that interpretation, rather than the drier original.
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Jan 11, 2020 17:28
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I've got to the final act in Bound by Flame. I like the weird enemy designs for the Ice lord's minions like the concubines who have a bunch on insect legs alongside their human ones because Blackfrost is a sex-weird, and the spare parts enemies that are just a ribcage and two arms with three heads hovering over the ribcage. They are fairly imaginative.
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Jan 11, 2020 19:50
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Who gives this much of a poo poo about Ultros?
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Jan 12, 2020 02:11
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Screaming Idiot posted:An annoying snaggle-toothed octopus who pops up in unlikely places as a running gag boss fight is a fun concept. And it's also possible to have him be flirty without being creepy. what if you made him a thirsty stereotypical friendzone nice guy. because thats how i took his character in the arr manderville quest lines and it still came off super pervy
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Jan 12, 2020 02:17
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packetmantis posted:Who gives this much of a poo poo about Ultros? Me. I do. It’s me
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Jan 12, 2020 02:27
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oldpainless posted:Me. I do. You know it's not Thanos and Ultron's love child, right?
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Jan 12, 2020 02:29
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