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Fish and Chimps posted:I did a test model for my Battle of Sehested SP2 project. Danes in great coats are amazingly quick to paint, especially when using both regular and contrast paints. Good job! Greatcoats is the big secret cheat code to Napoleonics. I could chew through battalions of the little dudes without breaking a sweat. Ok, so I've been away from home for three weeks, abroad with the in-laws. So inbetween reading history books I started working on our club's Gazala 1942 sourcebook for CoC:  It'll include a short summary of the Battle of Gazala (and Bir Hakeim) but also: - Platoon lists for German, Italian, Commonwealth and French forces - Support lists based on what was fielded during the battle in May 1942 - A customized version of the At the Sharp End campaign rules, adding What a Tanker battles - Optional rules for customizable National Characteristics - More optional rules for CoC, including new off-table mortar rules - A new scenario pitting two attacking platoons (with suitable handicaps) against a single defending platoon - Complete order of Battle for Axis and Allied forces, if you want to go button-counting Basically we want it to include everything you need to play pretty historical battles of CoC in late spring to summer in North Africa in 1942, plus some other goodies that might be used in other theaters of WW2. This is after the Allied gets some decent anti-tank weaponry, but before the bigger tanks (Shermans, Tigers) arrive, so it's a pretty interesting and balanced "meta" for historical CoC games IMHO. By now it's up to about 50 pages long, so it'll require a bit of editing and then we'll do some more playtesting. But hopefully it'll be out in a not too distant future.
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Jan 9, 2020 10:17
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lilljonas posted:our club's Gazala 1942 sourcebook for CoC: Can I send you Paypal for a copy?
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Jan 9, 2020 16:00
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Cessna posted:Can I send you Paypal for a copy? I'm planning for it to be a free PDF, like our Moscow sourcebook for SP2. But I guess we could accept voluntary donations as well, that we would definitely squander on burek and terrain kits. :P
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Jan 9, 2020 16:09
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How do you source photos like that Liljonas? If its free you just chuck em in and don't worry about it?
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Jan 9, 2020 17:15
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A lot of those photos come from various nations' war archives and are in the public domain. I cited all of the photos I used in the Totensonntag PSC in the 2019 Annual, but strictly speaking if it's in the public domain you don't have to.
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Jan 9, 2020 19:17
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muggins posted:How do you source photos like that Liljonas? If its free you just chuck em in and don't worry about it? Basically it’s stuff that’s in the public domain. I don’t make these as commercial products for mass consumption though, which makes me far less careful about copyright than if I were, say, Battlefront. As long as you don’t steal stuff like pics of people’s minis, you’ll be fine. E: but yeah, that pic is from the British war archive, and almost all pics you’ll see from a ww2 battlefield are from war archives. That’s one reason you’ll see the same pictures reused in most wargames: they are public domain and some archives are relatively digitalized and searchable online these days. For our Moscow book I used paintings by artists dead for a century, which also helps with copywright. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 9, 2020 |
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Jan 9, 2020 22:44
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To those who base 15mm models individually: what size bases do you use and was it optimal or if not, what is? Mistakes were made and now I have to base 2 platoons for CoC. I was thinking heavy washers so that half my force doesn't die to a sneeze and so I can transport them on magnetic foil if need be.
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Jan 9, 2020 23:34
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Pierzak posted:To those who base 15mm models individually: what size bases do you use and was it optimal or if not, what is? I have my 15mm CoC guys on washers, and it works decently well.
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Jan 9, 2020 23:37
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Mine are on washers too and it works just fine. Check my post history in this thread and you'll see many pictures of my minis.
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Jan 9, 2020 23:45
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I'd say washers because they can be closer to "scale" than what I went with, which was plain old pennies. I keep putting off finishing these guys but here's a couple of my WIP 92nd Infantry, based on shiny new US pennies.
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Jan 10, 2020 00:27
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Ilor posted:A lot of those photos come from various nations' war archives and are in the public domain. I cited all of the photos I used in the Totensonntag PSC in the 2019 Annual, but strictly speaking if it's in the public domain you don't have to. I was thinking about using photos of ACW vets for the ACW supplement I'm writing, but I'd like it to be in Lard Mag. Might be too morbid, not sure.
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Jan 10, 2020 00:28
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muggins posted:I was thinking about using photos of ACW vets for the ACW supplement I'm writing, but I'd like it to be in Lard Mag. Might be too morbid, not sure. I look for pictures either in official archives or by google image search set for public domain search. You’ll need to do a cursory check, but when doing anything ww2 or older you should be fine as long as you don’t swipe new photos from other wargamers or modern day pictures of places (unless those are specifically public domain). ” For photographs taken before June 1, 1957, Crown copyright expires 50 years after the creation of the image. All such photographs are therefore in the public domain. For photographs taken after that date and published before August 1, 1989, Crown copyright expires 50 years after the first publication.” (from wikipedia) Pics after 1989 is another issue. If in doubt, blame corporate america and Disney in particular.
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Jan 10, 2020 01:25
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goons posted:washers are good Pierzak fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 10, 2020 |
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Jan 10, 2020 02:47
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Pierzak posted:Yes, but I was asking what size bases you use. I just mentioned washers in case someone wanted to warn me about some non-obvious but crucial issue. Well since people usually base 28mm figures on 25mm bases, if we roughly half the scale from 28 to 15mm then we should roughly half the base size as well. So ideally something around 13mm, but really anything between 10mm and 20mm will work.
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Jan 10, 2020 03:21
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Pierzak posted:Yes, but I was asking what size bases you use. I just mentioned washers in case someone wanted to warn me about some non-obvious but crucial issue. 3/4 inch for me.
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Jan 10, 2020 10:05
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Yeah same here with the added bonus of them being held by a magnetic sheet for storing. Only annoyance is filling the holes in the middle but basing paste our whatever makes it easy.
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Jan 10, 2020 12:22
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Pierzak posted:Yes, but I was asking what size bases you use. I just mentioned washers in case someone wanted to warn me about some non-obvious but crucial issue. Pennies also work if you, like me, have way more then you would ever want. When I lived in the penny-less paradise of Canada I'd stock up on trips back to the US. If you're eurozone you're in luck. Euro 1c coins are slightly smaller than US pennies and match up really well with 15mm dudes. Using hard currency as bases is incidentally cheaper than actually buying washers.
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Jan 10, 2020 18:28
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I will mail euro pennies to goons at cost if you want them. They really are the best choice.
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Jan 10, 2020 18:39
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I'm always afraid that coinage would chip from use
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Jan 10, 2020 19:21
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So will washers and metal minis. Be careful with your toy soldiers.
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Jan 10, 2020 19:48
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Arquinsiel posted:So will washers and metal minis. Be careful with your toy soldiers. Yeah I don't use washers either. Metal minis do for sure but you're generally not pushing them around against tables
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Jan 10, 2020 22:54
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I use washers and have never had any issues with chipping.
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Jan 10, 2020 22:59
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Pennies also work if you, like me, have way more then you would ever want. When I lived in the penny-less paradise of Canada I'd stock up on trips back to the US. OTOH it feels kinda disrespectful and it's not like washers are anything near expensive, and that's if I don't have the right size in the shop. And I don't think many coins are magnetizable.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:11
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Pierzak posted:OTOH it feels kinda disrespectful I think Her Maj will be able to cope with my glueing minis to her tbh let alone some old slave owner who's been dead for 200 years 
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Jan 10, 2020 23:23
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feedmegin posted:I think Her Maj will be able to cope with my glueing minis to her tbh let alone some old slave owner who's been dead for 200 years the dude on the penny is lincoln you realize
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Jan 10, 2020 23:50
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I don't already have washers lying around, so why spend many pennies when the job can be done with one penny? Honest Abe would appreciate my practicality 
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Jan 11, 2020 00:02
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Just use plastic bases? Or does base size matter?
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Jan 11, 2020 00:07
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Flipswitch posted:Just use plastic bases? Or does base size matter? We're talking 15mm plastic, metal bases are there to give the minis some weight so you don't spend half an hour looking for them when somebody sneezes in the same room.
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Jan 11, 2020 00:11
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Acebuckeye13 posted:the dude on the penny is lincoln you realize The woman on the actual penny you know the coin thats actually called that isn't But yeah fair point mixing up bills and coins in someone elses currency I guess
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Jan 11, 2020 00:11
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Acebuckeye13 posted:the dude on the penny is lincoln you realize Well, the world knows nothing will make an Englishman poo poo quicker than the sight of George Washington.
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Jan 11, 2020 01:08
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Pierzak posted:We're talking 15mm plastic, metal bases are there to give the minis some weight so you don't spend half an hour looking for them when somebody sneezes in the same room. That makes sense! Cheers
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Jan 11, 2020 10:25
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Dammit. I'd just written an entire battle report. And Firefox ate it. &*(&*()! .
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Jan 11, 2020 14:04
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That sucks! drat browsers. I tried painting more of the Hit the Beach starter, but the tamiya paint doesn't adhere to the Vallejo base so that sucks.
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Jan 11, 2020 14:54
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I'd written out an entire battle report and Firefox ate it. Take 2. Sigh. If any of the following is incorrect, it’s my faulty memory and imgur’s fault for uploading the pictures out of order. I played my 2nd game of Field of Glory Napoleonic’s (2nd edition). My opponent was @Dave Inglis, who literally wrote the book on how to win battles in FOGN (it’s on the Facebook group). This battle will therefore be referred to as: Rommel you magnificent bastard. I read your book!. Dave let me use his Prussian army to stand in as a British Peninsula war army vs his Russians. Clearly, Napoleon had out done himself, and got the Czar to attack Britain in a place they wouldn’t expect it- Spain! (I won the dice roll on where the battle was to take place). FOGN gives you the choice of 6 different missions. You can deny your opponent some of them. I choose Probe, and he choose Frontal Assault (to take it easier on my he said). I had a division of Veterans (with an extra 100 points for a Guard unit, which never came up in the battle). Veterans are really good in FOGN . They were my reserves. The division I had on the table was a good unit of drilled troops with the corps Royal Artillery. I had a division of Impetuses British Hussars and Heavy Shock Dragoons on my right flank. My last division marching to the sound of the guns was another drilled infantry division. The Russians had a division of conscripts with the traditional Russian Heavy Artillery, a drilled infantry unit, an infantry unit with Jaegers and a cavalry division with Cossack's, Light and Heavy cavalry. Cossack's are really annoying . If you charge them they run away. Unless they are really stupid and get pinned against some terrain You can’t catch them.. They can kill infantry if they don’t get into square and are fast enough they can hit the flank or rear of anyone else. In FOGN, after you choose your mission, you choose the terrain to deploy on. Exceptional or skilled Generals can choose the ground they fight on. We ended up with all the terrain on my side. My left flank was anchored by a village. In the centre of my line was a hill I could deploy on in the traditional British fashion (though I could not use the traditional British strategy of being on the reverse slope in a Probe mission). My infantry’s right flank had a forest and marsh, but I should have had the Forest in front. The marsh gave me no cover from firing and made my Hussars useless in it. In FOGN, cavalry can’t do anything in difficult terrain . I would have thought LIGHT cavalry could, but nope, unless you have some attached horse artillery. 40K rough riders apparently use illegal tactics to fight in rough terrain. Perhaps that’s why GW has banned them In the middle of a table a steep hill made moving cavalry difficult and forced the Russians to attack in a smaller area – their infantry could only flank me if I created a hinge. Which I did. Whelp  (There was an impassable river in bottom right corner that played no part in the battle).  (The unit marked as Guard infantry is incorrect, it was just a large infantry unit. The heavy cav on the right also included a brigade of Impetuses British Hussars). The armies at the start of the battle, looking east to west. Russians are coming from the North.  The Russian army. The conscripts are closest to the camera.  As it was a frontal assault, the entire Russian line advanced.  The British army, looking west to east.  The village and hill defence line   My artillery banged away at his, but didn’t do much. The Russian artillery was disordered for a turn but were otherwise unaffected.  The Impetuses British Hussars and Heavy Shock Dragoons watch the approaching Cossack’s.  The Russian Conscript Division approaches the Spanish village. To me, villages in FOGN are traps . It takes 2 turns to move in to defend (one to occupy, one to defend), you can only have one unit defending it(!!??!), you can’t fire very well out of it and if you take it, you can get thrown out easily by a counter attack before you can prepare to defend it. They are very hard for the enemy to move through it if you have a unit to defend it…and they don’t have artillery. And you can’t put a unit of artillery AND infantry in it – only a battery attached to an infantry brigade.  I do think Dave over committed to having a large conscript unit try to shoot their way into it. He never supported it with his guns, preferring to shoot my guns or my infantry on the hill. The other two Russian divisions were coming into my weak point. Unless my reserves came in here, I was going to be in trouble.  Fortunately, they did! I placed my Large Superior Veteran Guard unit there. And discovered I’d made an rookie mistake in Napoleonic warfare- I’d created a hinge. . The marsh to the right prevented me from having cover on that side, and the Russians had light troops who could flank me that side. My Impetuses British Hussars couldn’t do ANYTHING in the marsh and moved slowly to the other side of it. The rest of the reserves (Veteran troops) came in act as a 2nd line and allowed me to CHARGE my 1st division down the hill into the Russians!   Gunfire rippled across the line and despite wavering, the British infantry charged home! Despite being outflanked by an entire Russian division the Guard barley wavered! Being a large unit of Superior Veteran meant they could take this fire all day. They were sitting on rough terrain under the road so lost some ability to shoot out (which I disagree with. If you have a road going through terrain, the road should override that, but those are the rules).  However, the charging British infantry were repulsed! The units behind them were completely unfazed by this and let them rally behind.  (This picture was from later, but it was uploaded out of order. Curse you imger)  On the right flank, my Impetuses British Hussars and Heavy Shock Dragoons had been duelling with the Russian Cossack’s and completely failed at catching them. Blast those Cossack's. However, both light units had changed and counter charged, and force the Jager battalion to form square, slowing them down  I had to do something dramatic. The Russians were about to flank by infantry line and even the Guard couldn’t hold back two divisions by themselves. And I saw something.  I had a line of reserves and the Russians did not! And that meant I had to commit now!.  I sent a 2nd unit down the hill, and this time with support from the Guard and Royal Artillery, the charge succeeded! It routed the enemy infantry brigade and went on to destroy the Russian Heavy Artillery! The wavering Russian infantry in front of the Guard disintegrated!    Meanwhile, in the cavalry battle to my east, the horseman had done nearly equal damage to each other. The Cossack’s had been able to outflank the Impetuses British Hussars but even with the support of 2 other brigades, could not finish them off.   The battle had gone for 3 hours and time was up! With the destruction of nearly one division and the rest of the army wavering (beyond some Russian cavalry who had played no part in the battle) the Russian’s retreated and the British held the field of battle. Several units had taken casualties, with only one unit routed. BRITISH VICTORY . FOGN is still overly complicated for me. Dave knows the rules off by heart so can tell me with ease where units can move and where they can’t, and knowing how many dice too roll, to target what (splitting fire is overly complicated I think), to need what to hit and then roll what to keep going, and telling me where I need to commit my ADC’s. He gave me several advantages (an extra 100 points for a Guard unit, using a frontal assault with little infantry tactical niceties) but the battle still performed like a Napoleonic battle should. He over committed attacking the village and didn’t’ have any reserves able to attack my defensive line. The side with the last reserves often wins in Napoleonic battles.... Or in other words "They came on in the same old way, and we defeated them in the same old way." . YEEEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. After all, I’d read his book. When my dramatic infantry charge down the hill occurred, I noticed something later. Dave didn't have any cavalry supporting his assault. If he'd had, I suspect my defensive plan would have failed to pieces immediately, even if I had kept one of the Hussar brigades with my infantry. A classic mistake in Napoleonic warfare I'd say. And something he mentions in his own strategy guide! Comstar fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jan 11, 2020 |
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Jan 11, 2020 15:23
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the various people portrayed on useless coins agree: we are either fine with you using our image in this manner, or are assholes! Either way, use us! Except in the UK, never been there, it's weird that pennies are a thing there given how much the pound is worth these d... oh right, nice foresight.
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Jan 11, 2020 16:30
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grassy gnoll posted:Well, the world knows nothing will make an Englishman poo poo quicker than the sight of George Washington. I do English Civil War wargaming. Get back to me when one of your leaders has tried and executed a king 
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Jan 11, 2020 17:04
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Comstar posted:An entire battle report
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Jan 11, 2020 17:13
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Arquinsiel posted:For those of us unfamiliar, what's a "hinge" in Napoleonic warfare? If you attack the enemy in line, you end up all in one long straight line. Everyone blasts away at each other and you're fighting at 1-1 ratio. SO you hit them in one flank. But you're marching slowly, so they reform their flank to face yours. The armies now have a right angle. THEN you send in the reserves you have carefully kept to the right movement, and hit them right there, in the hinge of their line. You're hitting them from 3 sides right at the corner, and they won't be able to take it, facing 3-1 odds. The hinge breaks, and you send in your cavalry into the hole to roll up the enemy army. In my battle, my Guard brigade was about to have two divisions firing at it- from the front and flank. If I hadn't charged down the hill, even they would have broken and the as yet uncommitted Russian cavalry could then exploit the hole....  Though it might not still have worked. I also had an uncommitted brigade behind the Guard unit which could fill the hole..but then they would have faced the same problem of being attacked on 3 sides. Once your hinge develops, it's very hard to break out of it. You either fall back your entire line (and in FOGN and Napoleonic warfare, falling back when close to the enemy makes you disordered and you need a morale check to succeed) or try and outflank the enemy outflankers. Because my British Troops had been blasting away at the Russians at the bottom of the hill for some time and weakening them, I was able to commit to a charge across the open ground - which is totally British tactics to do. You don't need to create a hinge to win a battle, but it forces the enemy to do something they may not want to do normally. I couldn't outflank his end of the line as I only had cavalry to the right of my flank (which the Russians were keeping busy) and there was a forest blocking my reserve infantry from getting there in time (which I had placed there myself as a rookie mistake. Whelp). A lot of battles work out this way (ie- you have more troops in one smaller area than the enemy does aka get there fastest with the mostest), but in 17-18th century warfare it's really obvious when it happens because the armies all fight in line, so you see it easier. One of the reasons Napoleonic warfare can be fun is you can see the elementary tactics in action. I think a lot of ACW battles that Lee won were because of this. Both at Waterloo and Gettysburg they didn't try this, and just went into frontal assault mode, and we all know how that worked out. At Gettysburg the Union got stuck in a hook/hinge, but they were in a very good defensive position and Lee's attack on day 2 was uncoordinated. Comstar fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 03:02
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Nice clear explanation, thanks. Makes perfect sense now.
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Jan 12, 2020 03:18
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Saw 1917 last night and really enjoyed it. Anyone got a rundown on WW1 rulesets and models - either skirmish level or larger sized games?
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Jan 12, 2020 04:36
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