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Chuff McNothing posted:You can't libel the dead. Hey those donkeys might still be alive and come after you for damaging their reputation like this.
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Jan 13, 2020 12:14
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Just saw that Rosie Duffield nominated Jess Phillips for leader. Ugh
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Jan 13, 2020 12:18
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Purple Prince posted:As a philosophy student I once tried reading Roger Scruton. Then everything was perfect in the good [white] countries until the 50s when a bunch of (((degenerates (Jews)))) formed the Frankfurter School, named after Freud's theory that everything is a dick if you rub it right, which had gender neutral toilets so that everybody was equally oppressed. Then Benjamin Button and Max Headroom said that aesthetics was borswah and replaced all the good art with pornology and jizz music and and that's where gays came from.
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Jan 13, 2020 12:21
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conservative thinker is just a euphemism for a racist surely :/
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Jan 13, 2020 12:29
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crispix posted:conservative thinker is just a euphemism for a racist surely :/ It's an oxymoron.
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Jan 13, 2020 12:30
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I thought we were the ones arguing the media was eroding society's moral principles
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Jan 13, 2020 12:31
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MikeCrotch posted:Just saw that Rosie Duffield nominated Jess Phillips for leader. Ugh loving lib dems
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Jan 13, 2020 12:31
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Purple Prince posted:As a philosophy student I once tried reading Roger Scruton. Aesthetics is by far the weirdest branch of philosophy even without all the weird racists, imo. And also they call themselves aestheticians so everybody thinks they do nails and eyebrows for a living.
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Jan 13, 2020 12:41
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Surely they should call themselves aesthetists or aesthesiologists, by alogy.
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Jan 13, 2020 12:45
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A E S T H E T I C I A N
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Jan 13, 2020 12:50
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Aestheticians sound like electricians for optics, if fiber comms was invented when luminiferous aether theory was still in vogue. Or people that sit around huffing diethyl ether from a rag in lieu of doing anything useful, which may be the actual etymology, and is definitely the origin story of at least two Spectator columnists.
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Jan 13, 2020 12:54
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Miftan posted:Aesthetics is by far the weirdest branch of philosophy even without all the weird racists, imo. I think it's to do with attempting to rationalise something which is generally considered to be emotionally-driven and subjective, and the kind of knots you need to tie yourself in to get to a logical argument. Also aesthetics requires a theory of mind to make it work and that puts you straight into the middle of some philosophy of mind poo poo, which you then need to attach exposition to to explain aesthetic reception. "If you thought The Critique of Pure Reason was bad, meet The Critique of [Aesthetic] Judgement!"
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Jan 13, 2020 12:57
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Guavanaut posted:Or people that sit around huffing diethyl ether from a rag in lieu of doing anything useful, which may be the actual etymology, and is definitely the origin story of at least two Spectator columnists. I mean "is philosophy a useful activity?" and "should philosophy be a useful activity?" have some great sorta-Marxist answers from Oscar Wilde (The Spirit of Man Under Socialism) and Bertrand Russell (In Praise of Idleness), so singling aestheticians out seems cruel.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:01
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“GK Chesterton once said that to criticise religion because it leads people to kill each other is like criticising love because it has the same effect. All the best things we have, when abused, will cause bad things to happen. The need for sacrifice, to obey, to make a gift of your life is in all of us and it’s a deep thing. In the Islamic world today, people are trying to rejoin themselves to an antiquated and ancient faith and the result is massive violence when they encounter people who have not done that. We’d say that sense of sacrifice is good but only if you’re sacrificing your own life; once you sacrifice another’s life you’ve overstepped the mark.” - Roger Scruton, The Soul of the World https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312 We didn't need him any more.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:06
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Just how bad is the Board of Deputies business. I desperately want to be able to full-throatedly back a socialist, but they need to fight without conceding ground. How does this get turned around? Can it?
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Jan 13, 2020 13:09
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tbh I'm assuming they've phrased their demands to be outwardly reasonable, so just accept it and move on
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Jan 13, 2020 13:12
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Purple Prince posted:I mean "is philosophy a useful activity?" and "should philosophy be a useful activity?" have some great sorta-Marxist answers from Oscar Wilde (The Spirit of Man Under Socialism) and Bertrand Russell (In Praise of Idleness), so singling aestheticians out seems cruel. I will not open myself up to accusations of libel by naming the other Spectator columnist whose mental meanderings are fueled by ether and dipsomania. 
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Jan 13, 2020 13:14
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BizarroAzrael posted:Just how bad is the Board of Deputies business. I desperately want to be able to full-throatedly back a socialist, but they need to fight without conceding ground. How does this get turned around? Can it? Once the demands were made a fight was inevitable over them, it's strategically better to secure the leadership before having the fight but that means total capitulation now which is spreading the damage across time and annoying a lot of supporters. It's bad because it shows RLB is not currently prepared to push back to the extent she'll need to. Tesseraction posted:tbh I'm assuming they've phrased their demands to be outwardly reasonable, so just accept it and move on They haven't.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:15
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There'll be a time where the party says it's met all the BoD's demands but the BoD disagrees and that'll hit the papers hard.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:15
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Can you link them again?
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Jan 13, 2020 13:16
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Tesseraction posted:tbh I'm assuming they've phrased their demands to be outwardly reasonable, so just accept it and move on they aren't.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:16
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Tesseraction posted:Can you link them again? Some of them are just non-statements, but #2 would be ruinous.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:22
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Purple Prince posted:I think it's to do with attempting to rationalise something which is generally considered to be emotionally-driven and subjective, and the kind of knots you need to tie yourself in to get to a logical argument. That's true of all philosophy fwiw. It's especially bad in ethics where someone will write 4 loving tomes and then some dickhead says 'ethics is a category error' and the whole room devolves into a tavern brawl (as all great philosophy is done in pubs anyway)
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Jan 13, 2020 13:23
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Tesseraction posted:tbh I'm assuming they've phrased their demands to be outwardly reasonable, so just accept it and move on The Jewish Board of Deputies are literally demanding to be the sole arbiter of what constitutes anti-Semitism in the Labour Party and to have final powers of discipline. That means anyone who criticises Israel in any way, for instance by suggesting Palestinians have a right to live (adding "in Israel" is optional), will be ejected from the Party. And that's before you even consider the implications of giving the legal right to effectively dissolve the Labour Party at will to an external organisation which to a man votes Conservative.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:24
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Guavanaut posted:https://twitter.com/BoardofDeputies/status/1216290591442722816 Would it? Unless you put obvious cunts like Pollard on it then I don't see this being as big of an issue.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:29
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If it's independent then you're giving up the right to decide whether obvious cunts sit on it or not to a third party unaccountable to to NEC or the membership. Unless you give both the BoD and the NEC veto power in which case nobody sits on the committee. The bit that needs to be challenged is the idea that a members' organization should be accountable to outside bodies at all, barring issues of criminal law like the SWP rape coverups.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:32
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Again - no one outside this thread seems to actually be talking about it, and that is because outside of any controversy there's no news story here. Talk about how Clive/Emily aren't going to make nominations or how there doesn't seem to be anyone else with nominations for deputy rather than Rayner, not this scaremongering over a cause the media has forgotten now they can't bash Corbyn with it. Or how Kier wants hustings in places other than big cities. https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1216690352343670789
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Jan 13, 2020 13:34
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Or how Kier wants hustings in places other than big cities. 
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Jan 13, 2020 13:37
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Guavanaut posted:If it's independent then you're giving up the right to decide whether obvious cunts sit on it or not to a third party unaccountable to to NEC or the membership. It all needs challenging. It's a set up to clear out any pro-Palestinian member of the Labour Party and any of their allies who defend them. Nothingtoseehere posted:Again - no one outside this thread seems to actually be talking about it, and that is because outside of any controversy there's no news story here. Talk about how Clive/Emily aren't going to make nominations or how there doesn't seem to be anyone else with nominations for deputy rather than Rayner, not this scaremongering over a cause the media has forgotten now they can't bash Corbyn with it. It won't go away until the left fully and publically rebuts the smears and lies or the left loses all influence so no I won't just let it slide quietly.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:38
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That’s because if it sails through at the moment there isn’t a story that is damaging to labour, but the effects of it could be in future. Why would a press that’s been trying to destroy the labour left draw attention to this in any negative way when it’s an absolute time bomb that’ll go off in their favour.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:38
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I just realised that it's 5% of CLPs *OR* affiliate societies/trade unions, not *and*. Given that if you get 2 trade unions it's pretty much mathematically impossible to not have 5% of affiliates that makes the CLP nominations kind of redundant. System working as intended, I guess.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:39
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namesake posted:It all needs challenging. It's a set up to clear out any pro-Palestinian member of the Labour Party and any of their allies who defend them.  considering #9) that can be agreed to. Racism is bad, we will not do a racism.#2 specifically hands control of the member list of a member controlled org to a third party. That's disastrous for any private members' club, but doubly so when there's explicit political motives. Also if you're trying to reduce antisemitism and antisemitic conspiracy theories then "give behind the scenes political control to an unaccountable group that claims to represent Jews" seems like a bad way to go about it.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:43
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Miftan posted:That's true of all philosophy fwiw. It's especially bad in ethics where someone will write 4 loving tomes and then some dickhead says 'ethics is a category error' and the whole room devolves into a tavern brawl (as all great philosophy is done in pubs anyway) I started this fight over on the SAL Grad Student thread already. Were the sophists right? Who knows? They're certainly winning the popular debate right now.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:48
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Guavanaut posted:https://twitter.com/BoardofDeputies/status/1216290591442722816 Yeah I think #2 and #8 are particularly bad, the rest are meh. Maybe #6 too but less so. e: mind you i'd be fine with the labour left shutting the gently caress up about israel. yeah they're bad but its not a lot to do with us, atm its comically easy to troll the left into saying dumb poo poo when the correct response is not to touch that with a 10 foot twiglet Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jan 13, 2020 |
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Jan 13, 2020 13:50
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Tesseraction posted:Would it? Unless you put obvious cunts like Pollard on it then I don't see this being as big of an issue. The trouble is, I can absolutely imagine that the panel would be made up of people like Pollard and the Labour party would have explicitly given up any power to complain or object. You're assuming an intention to act in good faith which is... optimistic, given the behaviour we've seen over the last few years.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:53
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Communist Thoughts posted:Yeah I think #2 and #8 are particularly bad, the rest are meh. Maybe #6 too but less so.  given #7You must engage with proper Jewish groups and not fringe organizations. Also you must involve the organization that allows non-Jewish members and was resurrected in 2015 just to poo poo on Corbyn.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:54
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Communist Thoughts posted:Yeah I think #2 and #8 are particularly bad, the rest are meh. Maybe #6 too but less so. #8 is an explicit statement of 'these Jews don't count' and should absolutely be challenged
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Jan 13, 2020 13:54
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Let's face it, it's going to be someone like Keir Starmer is going to be leader, and it's just going to be a matter of time before he gets hit by an antisemitism accusation despite acquiescing and while he'll be shocked we'll be able to enjoy the schadenfreude.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:56
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Rarity posted:#8 is an explicit statement of 'these Jews don't count' and should absolutely be challenged Yeah it's to quash #2 and #3 being deferred to Jewdas as arbiters of AS. 'You must hand the lists over to our tory mates in the BoD'
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Jan 13, 2020 13:59
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Fast forward to Labour deferring to a beth din of the most Orthodox Jews imaginable, and they're all Third Temple diasporic Jews who regard secular Israel as a traitor state acting against the coming of the Messiah.
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Jan 13, 2020 14:03
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