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Voters are dumb and there's no way this doesn't hurt both Bernie and Warren. Biden will never beat Trump. Warren's staff just doomed us. Christ.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:18
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Bushido Brown posted:Voters are dumb and there's no way this doesn't hurt both Bernie and Warren. Biden will never beat Trump. This isn't over yet. It's all on how Bernie and Warren treat this tomorrow. To be honest, I'm not holding my breath that Bernie gets away unscathed. But there's still some time to change the narrative. And hopefully impeachment crowds this out a bit.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:22
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Why are you so sure this hurts Bernie at all?
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Jan 14, 2020 02:24
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Feel free to ask the Warren campaign for donation refunds. info@elizabethwarren.com
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Jan 14, 2020 02:24
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Well, poo poo, Warren/Bernie fence-sitter chipping in. Two possibilities, either Warren thinks she can steal enough of Bernie's voters if she hits him as not woke enough, or Biden offered her a prominent cabinet position if she'd torpedo him. Either way, that statement is the most obvious bullshit statement, "yeah he totally passed me a note saying women suck and stuff, no I don't have it anymore what???" in a bullshit compliment sandwich. Regardless of the motivation, this doesn't really impact my opinion of Bernie but makes me dislike warren a LOT more. Clear attempt to split the progressive movement for personal gain. Was so happy when they were both on the same side that one debate, so disappointed by this. Hopefully most of his potential voters don't get their media from CNN or others who are going to stoke this as much as they can.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:24
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Bushido Brown posted:Voters are dumb and there's no way this doesn't hurt both Bernie and Warren. Biden will never beat Trump. It's a very long road to the convention, and who knows how any given voter will feel about any of this.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:25
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I'm not sure that this hurts Bernie. This could all blow over once Warren 90% dodges the question again like she just did. She's being a bit too subtle to boost her own chances, IMO. But this is THE classical attack on Bernie, and people that still blame Bernie for 2016 will take this as an excuse to not vote for him, even if he wins the first few states. I'm just not sure how many of those people there actually are.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:26
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OctaMurk posted:It's a very long road to the convention, and who knows how any given voter will feel about any of this. Thing is, Iowa is right around the corner, and Bernie needs Iowa.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:27
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spunkshui posted:I figured it out. Harrow posted:Here's the thing: I 100% believe that gender came up during that conversation, and I wouldn't be surprised if Bernie noted that a woman would have a much harder time in our current climate. That wouldn't surprise me at all and it wouldn't be out of character for Bernie, either. I do doubt the characterization that "a woman can't win," though. I think you’re both dead on right there. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Warren’s retelling of the story changed with time while confiding in folks, or the original part of the conversation was misunderstood and just related without getting follow-up. I mean, we’ve all been there, right? Personally, that is. Have a meeting, someone says something we disagree with, think is dumb, etc., next time you’re having brunch or happy hour with some friends and, after a couple of Bloody Marys or beers, you’re like “OMG, you have got to hear what they said during that meeting. [insert a non-verbatim summary of the conversation]” and your friends are like “Wow, that’s super bad. That sounds like they [insert opinion based on an assumption]” and you’re like “I know, RIGHT?!” But then, in this particular situation, that common way of getting friends to side with you exacerbates everything because it just so happens to have an impact on the Democratic primary to select the person who’s gonna try and take down Donald Trump. To make matters worse you get called out in it, because your friend can’t adhere to the circle of trust. And, at this point, you’ve already been talked into some pretty bad choices by your friends, like taking a DNA test to prove you’re part Cherokee (narrator voice: you weren’t), so are you gonna apologize and say you were wrong to characterize the conversation that way, or are you gonna double down in a manner that tries to de-escalate the situation in a half-hearted attempt to make up for the fact that you hosed up? The honorable thing to do would be to own up to it. Warren seems to have opted for the latter, and that’s probably also what everyone around her was telling her to do so she can potentially get a bump in the polls instead of outright admitting she was wrong.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:28
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dphi posted:I think the 'number belongs to the Warren campaign' thing was fake, but it looks like the text exchanges were photoshopped (or hell, edited in Paint)? You can take the original picture into any photo forensics site (ie. https://29a.ch/photo-forensics or http://fotoforensics.com/) and see the marks for yourself. Not definitive but yea...
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Jan 14, 2020 02:29
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Harrow posted:Thing is, Iowa is right around the corner, and Bernie needs Iowa. There's also NH, and Bernie losing Iowa probably gives the place to Buttigieg, which will make Biden look weak but with Buttigieg being unable to take SC because hes a racist. That leaves Sanders still well in the running.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:30
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Roluth posted:I'm not sure that this hurts Bernie. This could all blow over once Warren 90% dodges the question again like she just did. She's being a bit too subtle to boost her own chances, IMO. See I don't see how this "convinces" anyone who wasn't already against him. This to me reeks of desperation from the same group of Centrist Never Bernie Dems that were never going to vote for him anyway. It's weak sauce and I don't see it changing anyone's mind on a large scale. Prove me wrong though, voters....
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Jan 14, 2020 02:30
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mcmagic posted:I'm not ready to say that. Warren has been making GBS threads on Biden for years. They hate each other. I have always been skeptical that this is true in any meaningful sense, or at least that it remains true to any significant degree. One shouldn't underestimate the extent to which people are willing to ignore past professional conflicts if it's convenient for their careers, and Warren strikes me as the sort of person who just constantly justifies to herself that the thing most convenient for her personally and professionally happens to also be the most moral option. It's also possible that she dislikes Biden but realizes that siding with him over Bernie is better for her professionally (or at least believes that's the case). Regardless of what Warren personally believes, we know that she tends to make decisions with her career/ambitions in mind.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:31
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VH4Ever posted:See I don't see how this "convinces" anyone who wasn't already against him. This to me reeks of desperation from the same group of Centrist Never Bernie Dems that were never going to vote for him anyway. It's weak sauce and I don't see it changing anyone's mind on a large scale. Prove me wrong though, voters.... I don't think the point is necessarily to dissuade any already-decided Bernie voters, but to make it harder to pick up new voters. One attack won't do it, of course, but there won't be just one.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:32
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OctaMurk posted:There's also NH, and Bernie losing Iowa probably gives the place to Buttigieg, which will make Biden look weak but with Buttigieg being unable to take SC because hes a racist. That leaves Sanders still well in the running. No one on Iowa is going to give a poo poo about this.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:33
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So this is what it’s like to feel that the invisible hand of Hillary Clinton is somehow making things worse for everyone.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:34
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https://twitter.com/SamSeder/status/1216895940340191233
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Jan 14, 2020 02:34
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Harrow posted:I don't think the point is necessarily to dissuade any already-decided Bernie voters, but to make it harder to pick up new voters. One attack won't do it, of course, but there won't be just one. Been said before but it speaks volumes that this is their killshot on him. I feel like this shows how strong a campaign Bernie has right now.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:34
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VH4Ever posted:Why are you so sure this hurts Bernie at all? It's a lot of negative attention for a candidate that up to this point has mostly been dismissed by the media and ignored by the other campaigns. The reflexive assumption is to think bad news = poll number go down, and the race is tight enough for small shifts like that to matter. I think it also sets the two "most progressive" candidates in opposition when that coalition likely needs to come together at least in some capacity to defeat Biden. But these things can be unpredictable in their ability to stick, and Bernie has to be prepared to deal with attacks like these. If he can't get it done against Glass Joe and Queen Lizzo then he's not gonna be ready for the main event against Don Flamenco.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:35
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exquisite tea posted:It's a lot of negative attention for a candidate that up to this point has mostly been dismissed by the media and ignored by the other campaigns. The reflexive assumption is to think bad news = poll number go down, and the race is tight enough for small shifts like that to matter. I think it also sets the two "most progressive" candidates in opposition when that coalition likely needs to come together at least in some capacity to defeat Biden. But these things can be unpredictable in their ability to stick, and Bernie has to be prepared to deal with attacks like these. If he can't get it done against Glass Joe and Queen Lizzo then he's not gonna be ready for the main event against Don Flamenco. He has gotten nothing but negative attention when he's not being ignored and it has done nothing so far.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:35
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Bernie or bust
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Jan 14, 2020 02:36
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https://twitter.com/OnThisIAm1/status/1216823277638701056 For people seeking refunds, you can do it straight through ActBlue.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:36
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Harrow posted:I don't think the point is necessarily to dissuade any already-decided Bernie voters, but to make it harder to pick up new voters. One attack won't do it, of course, but there won't be just one. Even in just the past week there have been what, 3 or 4 different stories attempting to sell negative narratives about Sanders' campaign? They won't stop until he loses some key states. They can't erode his base (and from what I've seen on social media Sanders' supporters are rightfully PISSED about this and donating in pretty solid numbers) but they can make it harder for him to pick up fencesitters or poison the well of credibility with folks that he has to win over later.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:37
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"bernie's a great ally and friend, but he's just so goddamn sexist!" - elizabeth warren
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Jan 14, 2020 02:37
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I was feeling hopeful recently with Sanders polling well - something I haven't felt in 4 years. Why does something always have to ruin it?
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Jan 14, 2020 02:40
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@Majorian can I stop hyperventilating? I really do not know how this will play out at the debate tomorrow.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:40
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https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/status/1216893463221895168 guys, warren didn't want this to happen. bernie's at fault for this. yeah, only 2 people could've leaked this, and bernie wouldn't leak that he's an ultra sexist, but warren really didn't want this and she's totally trustworthy
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Jan 14, 2020 02:42
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If you're mad or worried, now's a great time to donate or volunteer.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:42
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Mat Cauthon posted:Even in just the past week there have been what, 3 or 4 different stories attempting to sell negative narratives about Sanders' campaign? They won't stop until he loses some key states. If I had to guess, the most potentially damaging part of this is that Bernie denied it outright, and Warren confirmed it. If people even kind of believe Warren, that means they think Bernie lied about it, and that's a crack in what has traditionally been something Bernie could rely on (that people saw him as honest and consistent). That's what worries me the most. Bernie's statement could easily read as an outright denial of something Warren is now directly saying happened, rather than a "we did talk about gender, but here's the actual words/context" sort of statement. Not at all saying that I think Bernie is lying, but that the contradiction in their statements opens up that possibility in voters' minds.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:43
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Crows Turn Off posted:I was feeling hopeful recently with Sanders polling well - something I haven't felt in 4 years. Why does something always have to ruin it? See this is what I'm pushing back against. What's ruined? This attack is bullshit. It's being recognized as bullshit and Warren is already backtracking it. All the egg is on her face. Calm down! Gonna only get more crazy from here. Save your worry for bigger problems. Rest assured they're coming. This poo poo today is weak sauce in extremis.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:45
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I still post a lot on Fark which has a shitton of moderate Dems. Whenever a Bernie thread comes up, it's a loving multipage war. If it's any indication, everybody there was calling bullshit when this story hit (except for a few trolls, of course).
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Jan 14, 2020 02:46
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Grouchio posted:@Majorian can I stop hyperventilating? I really do not know how this will play out at the debate tomorrow. Bernie and Warren will talk about how it was private conversation and how we should talk about the issues that Americans really care about blah blah blah Public mudslinging about dumb bullshit like this always plays terribly. The moderators will be thirsty for that drama though.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:46
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Bernie has established himself as having the characteristics of a straight-laced no-nonsense man, yes, and likewise Warren has spent the primary establishing herself as having the personal and political characteristics of a two-faced snake.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:48
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Grouchio posted:@Majorian can I stop hyperventilating? I really do not know how this will play out at the debate tomorrow. Yes, you can stop hyperventilating. Bernie will respond well tomorrow, those who don't like his response weren't ever going to vote for him anyway, and everyone else will be satisfied. Basically this: Sinistral posted:Bernie and Warren will talk about how it was private conversation and how we should talk about the issues that Americans really care about blah blah blah
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Jan 14, 2020 02:48
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Really the only thing that prevents this attack from being perfect is Warren's mealy-mouthed statement. If she'd gone all-in I could see this being really damaging to Sanders. It's the perfect story and the kind that's been set up for years. Dems have worked hard to set up the narrative that Bernie is sexist. They've made it "common knowledge" that Bernie supporters are cult-like, aggressive harassers (who also hate women). Beat that drum a long time and make Bernie supporters mad, which gets your tweets ratioed and then you can point to it and call it mobbing and harassment. Then you actually fire the shot: you claim Bernie said an undeniably misogynist thing. You've baited supporters into going into counterattack mode, which continues to feed that side of the narrative, making it even harder for supporters online to push back. And you've primed a subset of voters not already fully committed to Bernie to be at least a little more likely to accept that maybe he would say something like that, making it that much harder to win over new voters. It's not a killing blow, but it'll sting. What remains to be seen is if they'll go far enough to make it actually stick, and that's probably going to be determined tomorrow at the debate. It'll be weeks before we see this reflected in polls, too, and it's entirely possible that Bernie has built up his honest, no-nonsense image enough that his word will carry enough weight to limit the damage. Maybe.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:49
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Office Pig posted:Bernie has established himself as having the characteristics of a straight-laced no-nonsense man, yes, and likewise Warren has spent the primary establishing herself as having the personal and political characteristics of a two-faced snake. To us.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:50
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I feel like the earlier post someone made about this being focused on fracturing the demographic is dead on. In this thread you unironically have people arguing that Elizabeth Warren is a suicide missile aimed at Bernie Sanders and I'm seeing the opposite too in other places and it's a load of nonsense. It's loving dumb and it's loving dumb that people here are unironically falling for it because we already saw this poo poo before. Bernie is not going to be hurt by this unless people do the mind-numbingly stupid thing of starting to fight people who should be on their side because they let the media hype them up so they can get the Civil War narrative going. We're 13 days into the year. If you're going to start panicking and lashing out the moment anything remotely negative happens then the next year is going to be loving hellish for you because we haven't even really seen the *start* of attacks yet.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:51
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Anyways, I hope today answers the question "Why does the Left hate liberals?"
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Jan 14, 2020 02:52
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Judakel posted:To us. In my opinion, I don't think it can be understated how bad the native america / DNA thing is to the average voter. It hasn't come up in the news because the other Democrats are simply too  to bring it up, but it lingers it people's minds.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:54
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if it hasn't been posted yet https://twitter.com/OnThisIAm1/status/1216823277638701056 you can get warren campaign donations refunded.
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Jan 14, 2020 02:55
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