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It's good that some people have gotten themselves to situations where they derive enough satisfaction from things pretty much at hand but I really don't understand a blanket rejection of going to places outside of it. It's an inherently conservative mindset which is extremely vulnerable to xenophobic tendancies, to not acknowledge that there probably are things or ways of doing things out there which you would want to be a part of or at least would enjoy for a while is a siege mentality against most of humanity. I guess this is basically the thread realising we've got a mix of citizens of somewhere and citizens of anywhere which is pretty cool but drat.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:35
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Coohoolin posted:efb but the above clip doesn't include the incredibly dense followup from ian macwhirter More like ian mc whiter
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Jan 14, 2020 21:35
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To be fair I know plenty of people who have travelled the world and are proper twats
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Jan 14, 2020 21:36
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Ms Adequate posted:Scale Olympus Mons? Olypmus Mons has such a gentle incline (despite its vast size), it would probably feel like walking up a mild hill. A mild hill the area of Poland, but still. The real goal is to be the first person to nut into a black hole. Or be the first person to die some embarrassing death, like "First auto-erotic asphyxiation on Pluto", or "First person who drank liquid methane on Titan", or "First sunbather on Mercury".
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Jan 14, 2020 21:37
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OwlFancier posted:Except I know myself well enough to know that yes, I could go and do that, but it would actually make me happier. My life would not actually be better if I was looking at an old building or something just because it's further away from where I spend most of my time. It's not an experience I would be able to treasure for the rest of my life, it's something that might be nice in the moment and which, like everything, would fade and be lost like everything else in my head. Experiencing stressors makes for self improvement, whether it be working out or trying to work out what all these forrens are trying to tell you and oh god what's the word for toilet bañoooooooh? Travel done right is an experience that often sucks but you tend to look back on with rose tinted nostalgia. It generally works better if you're actually working abroad rather than just doing a 10 day sun seeking trip though. E: Nihilism: Everything sucks why bother Existentialism: Everyone gonna die gently caress it I'll go see how many countries I can poo poo in before my inevitable demise Anyway: https://twitter.com/andrewfeinstein/status/1216715781641330688 RockyB fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 21:39
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"first" person to nut "into" a black hole seems like it would be a difficult concept given the effects of black holes on spacetime.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:40
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namesake posted:It's good that some people have gotten themselves to situations where they derive enough satisfaction from things pretty much at hand but I really don't understand a blanket rejection of going to places outside of it. It's an inherently conservative mindset which is extremely vulnerable to xenophobic tendancies, to not acknowledge that there probably are things or ways of doing things out there which you would want to be a part of or at least would enjoy for a while is a siege mentality against most of humanity. I have to disagree with some of this, at least for me, I don't feel the need to go abroad because I'm not the sort of person who derives joy from being in new places, maybe being on the Autistic spectrum is partially the reason for this, my own experiences of holidays are watching everyone else in my family go to luxury 5 star hotels while I was lucky to even go to Butlins or a bungalow in Wales for a week a year. I pretty much learned to be happy with whatever happens to be around me.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:43
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It's also rather hard to go places without it being just consumption, like you have to put a great deal of effort in to not make a holiday into a consumption activity because that's what they are, by default. That's sort of what they intrinsically are if you go somewhere, you're buying access to a place to consume it. If you find commodity consumption intrinsically unpleasant then it makes a lot of sense to want a holiday from it as much as possible.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:47
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OwlFancier posted:"first" person to nut "into" a black hole seems like it would be a difficult concept given the effects of black holes on spacetime. Well we're not going to be loving galactic phenomena anytime soon with that sort of attitude! 
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Jan 14, 2020 21:50
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namesake posted:I really don't understand a blanket rejection of going to places outside of it. It's an inherently conservative mindset which is extremely vulnerable to xenophobic tendancies, to not acknowledge that there probably are things or ways of doing things out there which you would want to be a part of or at least would enjoy for a while is a siege mentality against most of humanity. Oh come on, nobody here's said they could not enjoy anything in a different place. But if we can also want to be part of and enjoy things where we are, the process of travelling to other places is a waste of time and resources. The time it would take to learn enough to be able to participate well in foreign culture is time that we might think we could spend doing more valuable things here. The money and carbon it would cost, likewise. As for conservative xenophobes - the ones I've known have been very well travelled, it's a thing people with money often do.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:52
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The british empire certainly did not exhibit conservative or xenophobic tendencies owing to being extremely well traveled 
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Jan 14, 2020 21:54
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Oh dear me posted:As for conservative xenophobes - the ones I've known have been very well travelled, it's a thing people with money often do. yeah all those millions of Brexit voters sure do travel a lot, with all the money that they have
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Jan 14, 2020 21:54
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I mean when you have a serious "giving nigel farage money for everything" problem it does a number on your finances
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Jan 14, 2020 21:56
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Julio Cruz posted:yeah all those millions of Brexit voters sure do travel a lot, with all the money that they have To Spain at least.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:59
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Judge Tesla posted:To Spain at least. man if there's 18 million people going to Spain every year there's no excuse for budget airlines failing
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Jan 14, 2020 22:01
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Judge Tesla posted:To Spain at least. Back from Spain, soon. Unfortunately.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:01
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I think every aspect of this country is loving repulsive, and the people around me are awful, which is why my ideal holiday is to get as far away from them as possible. Also Ms A. is right, as always.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:04
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I mean you can, again, go get lost on the moors or in the forest, we have both of those in the UK.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:06
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They both sound terrible.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:08
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Julio Cruz posted:yeah all those millions of Brexit voters sure do travel a lot, with all the money that they have Even when they do travel it's to the exact same places every single time, and those places are basically British colonies because being more than a hundred yards from egg and chips is enough to bring them out in a rash. My mates parents, who are definitely Brexit voters based on their FB posts, have gone to the exact same resort in Cyprus every year for like 30 years (if you doubt their working class bona fides, they won the money for the first trip on Bullseye). Mind you even as I type this I realise I don't actually blame them - both earn barely above minimum wage even though they're in their sixties (he's a hospital porter and minicab driver, she's a dinner lady) and they have to save all year for their holiday, they literally cannot afford a "bad" holiday so they stick with a place they know they're happy in. Fear of change is actually pretty understandable for people who are at the bottom, because it's not like they can afford to lose anything they currently have. I'm contradicting the point I've been trying to make, but this really loops back to the seats Labour lost at the last election - if we can't understand and empathise with these people, even if we disagree with them, we're never going to be able to make any kind of progress.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:10
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The Deleter posted:I think every aspect of this country is loving repulsive, and the people around me are awful, which is why my ideal holiday is to get as far away from them as possible.  OwlFancier posted:I mean you can, again, go get lost on the moors or in the forest, we have both of those in the UK. It's true and they can be lovely, but the fact that Location A has some nice stuff doesn't mean Location B's nice stuff is lesser or invalid.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:14
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No, but if I live in location A and location B is expensive and wasteful to get to it does make location A subjectively better to me. I both practically can't and don't think we ethically should divorce the process from the destination. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 22:16
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Listen, I'm just telling it like it is!
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Jan 14, 2020 22:19
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OwlFancier posted:No, but if I live in location A and location B is expensive and wasteful to get to it does make location A subjectively better to me. This all over. If you can have a slightly worse holiday by not sharting out the ludicrous amount of carbon that air travel produces, you absolutely should. Not flying is one of the few consumer actions that individuals can take that actually makes a meaningful difference.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:27
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OwlFancier posted:No, but if I live in location A and location B is expensive and wasteful to get to it does make location A subjectively better to me. Oh yeah that's completely fair, I think we'd do better if we could develop a more coherent way of talking about such things that takes that into account. But there's still places that just draw a person sometimes, regardless of all else - I'm always going to love the terrain of western Montana more than anywhere I've been in the British Isles. Even though I live in the latter and reaching the former is occasional and expensive for me. Doesn't mean I have no affection for a dark and windy moor, or the Olde Forests where Robin Hood did roam, or so on. e; ^^ Also this, although in the modern age there's the new complication involved of actually personally knowing and developing relationships with people all over the world. I didn't end up going to Montana because I thought it looked pretty, but because there was a girl there I thought looked pretty, and we were dating and stuff. So in that case it's harder to vacation locally because, well, there's a specific person you want to be physically near and there's no way around the need to travel to make that happen. Of course, the other hand there is, if the relationship works out one person is likely to be moving permanently to the other, which reduces that concern considerably. The Deleter posted:Listen, I'm just telling it like it is! I'm a Millennial, the only thing that outweighs our need for compliments is our inability to accept them!! Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 22:30
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thespaceinvader posted:Not flying is one of the few consumer actions that individuals can take that actually makes a meaningful difference. Don't have kids Don't have pets Don't consume meat/dairy Don't use supermarkets Don't own any cotton products Don't own any lithium products Don't drive Don't work in the following sectors; agriculture, energy, manufacturing, ....
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Jan 14, 2020 22:51
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I think if you drew a triangle between Bristol, Southport, and Cromer, I haven't been outside of that in quite a few years. There's a fair few interesting things within that area, but also a fair few way beyond that were worth traveling to see. I suppose with the advent of the internet and that printed page thing I can read about all kinds of different people and their views on the world without needing to leave my chair, but there's also visiting family, cultural things you don't get in the UK, stuff way outside of the British Overton window, and bigger rocks to climb. It's also expensive tho. Ratjaculation posted:Don't have kids 
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Jan 14, 2020 23:06
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Ratjaculation posted:Don't have kids These are the other ones, the rest of your list is just packed with compromise and/or impossibility.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:17
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thespaceinvader posted:These are the other ones, the rest of your list is just packed with compromise and/or impossibility. not quite. although I added on the work ones iirc drinking only tap water is also the equivalent of a vegan diet too in saved carbon miles Ratjaculation fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 23:26
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It always comes down to eugenics.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:29
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Katt posted:It always comes down to eugenics. Are you the Blue Labour spokesperson?
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Jan 14, 2020 23:33
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A world filled with Eugenes
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Jan 14, 2020 23:44
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Ratjaculation posted:not quite. Where does a pet come on that scale? I'm assuming directly below a child, if it's a meat-eating and reasonably long-lived pet, but a lot further down if it's like... a tortoise.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:49
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Like Libertarians and age of consent. Whenever Liberals are left alone for too long any discussion devolves into "There needs to be fewer poor people"
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Jan 14, 2020 23:51
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I feed my children to my dog, so really I couldn't say The graph is very variable, so many factors, but its a good illustration.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:52
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There may need to be fewer poor people but not before we run out of rich people
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Jan 14, 2020 23:53
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Qwertycoatl posted:Long-dead people, the Potters are old-money aristrocracy. Why the Potters were rich is my absolute favourite thing about the HP books. JK tweeted a few years ago that 100s of years ago one of them invented some amazing medicine or something but whatever, decade-late tweets are fake. Within the books Potter is an ancestral line of Peverel, the Peverels were the 3 brothers that cheated Death and created the Deathly Hallows. One of those was the invisibility cloak Harry inherited. Talking about it Ron I think is like 'whoever had that cloak would be rich as gently caress' and the implication is that you'd use the cloak to rob rich people, and when Harry realises Potter=Peverel it's this revelation moment and reading it you're like 'oh yeah and thats why he's rich too!'. It's the most amazing thing, that JK originally wrote HP being weirdly rich because his ancestors were Robin Hood figures except lol they actually kept the money for themselves and put it in a goblin vault. Rob the rich but perhaps don't give it to the poor? It's the perfect example of that specific flavour of weak left-leaning lib aestheticism where yeah screw billionaires! i hate the injustice but the best use of those appropriated proceeds is probably to make me upper middle-class. It's so perfectly Polly Toynbee et al I love it. Vitamin P fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jan 14, 2020 |
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Jan 14, 2020 23:53
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Katt posted:Like Libertarians and age of consent. Whenever Liberals are left alone for too long any discussion devolves into "There needs to be fewer poor people" A weird segue you've made there from a discussion on goons not sprouting children or living alone with cats But there does need to be fewer people, we've not said being poor has anything to do with it. I'm interested if you are against raising education levels, women's rights and access to contraception in developing countries? This is why global pop-growth rate is slowing, despite certain areas being outside that influence.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:58
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The state of this diseased loving country.
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Jan 14, 2020 23:58
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Katt posted:Like Libertarians and age of consent. Whenever Liberals are left alone for too long any discussion devolves into "There needs to be fewer I genuinely don't understand how this is even a controversial concept. It's trivial for leftists to assert that an infinitely growing economy is an impossibility and a catastrophic failure of capitalism (which it is), but somehow an infinitely growing population isn't? We don't need fewer people per se (i.e., we shouldn't be killing any of the extant ones except maybe the billionaires), but we do need an equal or lower birth rate than the death rate at some point in the relatively near future. Because 7 billion isn't too many. Maybe the 8 billion we'll have by the end of the decade won't be. But if the population growth rate continues to be positive (and I'm aware that's a big if, and that it looks like it might tail off in 50 or so years, albeit life expectancies are getting concurrently longer, too) we will eventually outgrow the planet, and it's looking pretty impossible to find new ones. And that's assuming we haven't outgrown the planet already which given the mass extinction event we're already causing seems... questionable. And assuming that we don't see some massive sea changes (pun intended) in the global food and housing economies through climate change in the same sort of timeframe. We could currently feed everyone with food to spare, and we don't because capitalism. But in 50 years time will that still be true? E: wow I missed the word 'poor' in there didn't I? Well, the point is accurate if you ignore that key fact that I glossed over because that was never part of the discussion in the first place o_O
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Jan 15, 2020 00:01
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