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Nessus posted:I am not completely clear: is the project to justify a change in rules, or is the project to present a textual justification for why this is mostly Masquerade, including historical/metaplot elements of Masquerade, but reflecting a historical emergence/centering of Requiem-style mechanics? Both, but most definitely the latter. I asked about it and to summarize, the plan is more or less to provide context to many adjustments and experiments with gameplay mechanics he made along the years but couldn't organize in a more coherent form. According to him, when setting up Vampire campaigns, 9 out of 10 people want Masquerade and lots of it, but in longer runs, he bends a lot of the rules and the gameplay to "encourage" the players into doing more monstrous crap without them realizing it. And to properly allow that effect to happen, for those long haul groups, he starts the campaign anywhere from the eighties to the belle époque. The reason for those is to allow PCs to get and amass enough power to actually be truly monstrous, which is a nice reversal of the "personal horror from the start" approach. By changing the mechanics, it also removes the flawed-but-still-sort-of-understandable arguments that a lot of kindred have for doing heinous poo poo, for example: some big bad methuselah is waking up and a lot of innocents eat dust in the process of destroying it, but compared to whatever the hell he was up to, easy decision. By levelling the field through potency rather than generation, it makes the players more invested in the narrative and considerate of what they are going to do. The big bad is still a powerful adversary, sure, but he is not the omega-defcon-zero scenario of before, so it is very hard to justify to yourself and your peers that you want to go full ballistic and gently caress whatever collateral damage. I said to him, "well that screams for Requiem from what I know of it", but then again, Masquerade is what his players want. Even bending and twisting it a lot, it seems to scratch a very peculiar itch, and hell I can attest to that personally. The only setting with vampires that for me just clicks and works, even with all the editorial mess and ridiculous tryhard bullshit, is Masquerade. Seems to be the case with a lot of other players as well. BTW, all suggestions so far were great! Thank you very much 
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Jan 14, 2020 04:30
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Dawgstar posted:No, Vlad has Vicissitude. He does his own thing. can you really say anyone with Vicissitude as advanced as Vlad's is capable of doing their "own" thing anymore? 
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Jan 14, 2020 07:50
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LGD posted:can you really say anyone with Vicissitude as advanced as Vlad's is capable of doing their "own" thing anymore? "Ooof, looks like you've got Vicissitude. Worst case of it I've ever seen." "Well don't just allude to it, doc, tell me what to do." "I'd like to, but at your stage of it, technically nothing I say to you actually qualifies as being to you anymore. Massive HIPAA violation."
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Jan 14, 2020 13:53
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Dark Eras 2 PDF is out for backers. I flicked straight to the Golden Mage of Piracy chapter, and love it so far. I wasn't super interested by most of the other settings during the kickstarter, but I'll still read through them and even if I don't like them at all, the Pirate mages make the book worth it anyway.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:47
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cptn_dr posted:Dark Eras 2 PDF is out for backers. I didn't realize I had already posted, but here are my opinions already sitting here waiting for me.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:05
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On further inspection, Wild West Mage is also pretty cool.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:57
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cptn_dr posted:On further inspection, Wild West Mage is also pretty cool.
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Jan 15, 2020 02:00
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I like how the eras are more uniform (in setup). Looks like vampires got loads of new stuff, couple of clans and covenants and powers. Loving the Werewolf Firstborn connection between ancient Hawara and WW1.
nofather fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 02:16
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Nessus posted:Is there a robot spider? 
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Jan 15, 2020 02:51
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I am reading a bunch of stuff from Ye Olde Days of 1999-2003 along the 20th Anniversary stuff and... Holy poo poo, the best I can resume how I feel is "how the actual gently caress those are about the same thing?" (just VtM and Wraith so far, a bit of mage but ascension feels hilariously off nowadays, at least compared to awakening)
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Jan 15, 2020 06:46
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So, hey, not sure about where else to put this: I was going to put together a group for a Roll20 Game on 'Princess the Hopeful', a homebrew deconstruction set in the WoD. They recently updated to be compatible with GMC, so I'm reading through to get a handle on the changes, setting up a city and establishing some backstory for the local clans/major players in the setting. It would be more story focused than rule focused, because I think the group I have is also kinda rusty, or new. The issue is that I haven't GM'd a game in a long while, and the new editions are untreaded ground. The last time I played was back in oWoD and it didn't last very long. Anyone run this sort of campaign before that is still active here? I saw some posts about it in the old thread, but I was hoping for some help on how to establish some NPCs and a few good tips to get players going in the setting. And if you all want, I could record/log it as it crashes and burns so we all have a good laugh at my expense.
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Jan 15, 2020 10:58
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Flipped to the one Dark Eras 2 paragraph about Mages in the court of king arthur, and it's just a note that says *merlin's a mage i guess.* Oh well, at least the wild west and piracy eras are fantastic. There's a whole ship combat system, two new legacies (that only have 2 or 3 attainments listed out of the 5), an awesome plothook and nameless order, and a whole ruleset about how mages deal with and alter the Hedge. Octavo fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 15, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 18:01
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Octavo posted:Flipped to the one Dark Eras 2 paragraph about Mages in the court of king arthur, and it's just a note that says *merlin's a mage i guess.*
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Jan 16, 2020 00:16
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Arthurian Britain was a stretch goal that didn't get reached for Mage, I think? But there's details on Myrddin spread throughout the Mage books, particularly Silver Ladder. Myrddin was an Acanthus (arch?)mage who helped build Camelot. Then he ritually destroyed it in order to Ascend, in the process making Mordred the current Aeon of Fate. Opinions on him and whether what he did is cool or not are mixed among mages.
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Jan 16, 2020 00:39
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Nessus posted:I mean you can't get too mad that they address that. It's like how both the vampire games had to address Dracula. Or how any wraith-based game will have to engage with the broad question of "Will there be Ghost Hitler?" Ghost Hitler is probably the easiest to address. No one is going to object to the idea that he stepped over and was immediately dragged away screaming by the ghosts of those he murdered. Or, and this is the simplest route, say that he lacked the will to linger as a wraith - that his innate weakness of spirit that lead him into fascism doomed him from before he died to immediately slip into nothingness and crumble away. It's way simpler than trying to figure out a satisfactory Merlin.
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Jan 16, 2020 00:40
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Why ever be satisfied with just one Merlin? Or just one Camelot, for that matter?
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Jan 16, 2020 00:41
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How's the WW1 Dark Era with Geists and Werewolves shaking out? It was the only one of the new batch that looked particularly interesting to me.
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Jan 16, 2020 01:14
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Is the piracy mage stuff heavily themed after Vodou? Like how magical pirates were presented in On Stranger Tides (the Tim Powers book, not the Pirates of the Caribbean movie)?
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Jan 16, 2020 02:03
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Loomer posted:Ghost Hitler is probably the easiest to address. No one is going to object to the idea that he stepped over and was immediately dragged away screaming by the ghosts of those he murdered. Or, and this is the simplest route, say that he lacked the will to linger as a wraith - that his innate weakness of spirit that lead him into fascism doomed him from before he died to immediately slip into nothingness and crumble away. It's way simpler than trying to figure out a satisfactory Merlin. I wonder if Wraith touched on it at all. They might have in Charnel Houses of Europe, but that would require me reading said book to know.
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Jan 16, 2020 02:11
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Dawgstar posted:I wonder if Wraith touched on it at all. They might have in Charnel Houses of Europe, but that would require me reading said book to know. IIRC Charnel Houses does not contain any of the big name Nazis, closest is a relatively high-ranking camp guy who has been forced into a position of servitude under his former victims. I believe the reasoning was 'they loving fell into the oblivion hole.'
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Jan 16, 2020 03:28
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Magechat: How much power does someone on the Hierarch's council really have? In my mage game the Consilium has the unusual measure that the Hierarch nominates one person of each order (including themselves), to be on their council. And also, one person of each path. But these have to be the same person. So the Hierarch right now also fills the Obrimos slot. And the Free Council guy also fills the Thyrsus slot. The Guardian of the Veil PC has decided that the current Hierarch is awfully corrupt and her FC lackey even moreso and wants to bring them down. Her mentor happens to be the GotV Moros on the council. So naturally, following certain other events in the chronicle, that mentor is going to have to step down and the Hierarch is going to say "Well, I don't feel like reshuffling my entire council and you're the only other eligible GOTV Moros around... step on up." Giving the player what they want in the most entertaining possible way. But my question is, what opportunities does this really give the player? The Hierarch is free to ignore their counsel, though they might be invited to meetings at least for the sake of appearances. Her own Order is likewise probably going to be more suspicious of her than appreciative. Beyond the initial "wow what a surprise!" moment (though the players might catch on in advance if they look too closely at my spreadsheet of NPCs), what new opportunities does this have?
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Jan 16, 2020 03:38
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bewilderment posted:Magechat: So, prefacing this with "I have not read Sanctum and Sigil" my impression from the Order books is, basically, 'it depends a huge amount on the local customs and precedent of your Consilium.' Hierarch and Councilor are positions that the general structure of the Diamond respects, but an individual Hierarch could be the first among equals on the council, or they could be a petty tyrant like the Nemean. Similarly, a Councilor could have a lot of sway and specific responsibilities, or they could just be an advisory board to the Hierarch. Figure out what works best for your specific story needs, is my advice.
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Jan 16, 2020 04:21
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I had a flip through Sanctum and Sigil long long ago and didn't find it helpful but it was super long ago. From what I've established so far I guess my Consilium's system is as follows: - As above, they have the wacky "one of each order and path, but still only five people" setup - The role of Hierarch is basically for life (until abdication) with any contest determined by "take it if you think you can" with no real holds barred - The prior Hierarch established a reasonably strict and stifling rule of law, right up until he was killed under mysterious circumstances (prior to campaign start) - The new Hierarch is, outside of 'emergency circumstances', bound by existing law and has declined to remove any, but is relatively hands off and encourages cabals in their personal projects so long as they appear to be working for the betterment of the city - The Sentinels are directed by the Hierarch, but as above, she's much less inclined to call them on anybody than her predecessor. - Very campaign specific: almost any punishment short of death can be exchanged with exile to Tasmania, should the guilty party feel that exile is preferable to apologising to the wronged party or whatever. That much is relatively set and can't be easily retconned. As for the rest, my rough guidelines for how the system works is as follows, but which can be changed: - The Hierarch appoints their own council, and can dismiss them pretty much at will. Because new appointees could require a full reshuffle, this isn't done without a lot of consideration. - The Hierarch is bound by any existing laws, but there's no real mechanism for putting them on trial and this is yet to be really tested. As long as its 'within the law' they can do whatever they like, though. - New laws are subject to a whole council vote with the Hierarch acting only as a tiebreaker. This is somewhere I feel like I can give the PC power - the Hierarch appears to be a stickler for their own ideals so while they would love to cast a vote themselves, they can't do so without losing a lot of face. This also encourages the PC to get others on their side. - Appointments to Herald or Sentinel also require a vote. - The position of 'Provost' isn't really an official thing in this Consilium. Councilors may have trusted aides but they only have power insomuch as they're assumed to speak for their superior.
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Jan 16, 2020 04:39
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Nessus posted:I mean you can't get too mad that they address that. It's like how both the vampire games had to address Dracula. Or how any wraith-based game will have to engage with the broad question of "Will there be Ghost Hitler?" I really liked how Requiem handled Dracula as the (sort of) founder of the Ordo Dracul. This would be like if Dark Eras 3 had an era for 15th century Wallachia, but gave it to Promethean, Demon, and Mummy, and in a footnote it mentioned that Vlad the Tepes was in all likelihood a vampire. Camelot and Merlin had references in Mage the Awakening sourcebooks going back to the earliest supplements. Medraut (Mordred) was the face of the Aeon of Fate. I want to say at least one of the books flat out stated that Camelot was a timeline excised from reality by the exarchs. It's just a bummer that due to the method OPP chose to match eras to splats, Mage missed out on something that had been long in the cards. Still, like I said above, the book was worth its $20 pre-order rate just to get the brilliant Pirate era. Flavorful, gameable material that hooks into the history in the Awakening 2e core.
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Jan 16, 2020 04:42
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Dawgstar posted:I wonder if Wraith touched on it at all. They might have in Charnel Houses of Europe, but that would require me reading said book to know. It did not, no, at least as memory serves. Hitler came up in some of the non-wraith content here and there but for Wraith purposes they just went 'nah, gently caress that guy' and didn't put him in.
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Jan 16, 2020 05:06
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A lot of nazis were canonically soul-forged into the gates of the Dark Kingdom fo Wire. There's group fo wraiths that hunt their ghosts across the world to bring them back and be added to the list.
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Jan 16, 2020 06:26
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So, I've been toying with some ideas, and since I never get a chance to ST (and never have time for it), maybe someone here running W20 can use it. It's Bone Gnawer in origin. Requires some storyteller fiat/exploiting a note in the Revised Strider tribebook that was never fleshed out, namely: some talk of a 'mobile caern,' which made me start thinking about underground raves from the 90s/early aughts. Then I got to thinking about what urban Garou would do to try cleaning up the messes around cities, or getting people out to rural areas to just breathe for a while. The rave scene has some quintessentially Gnawer touches. Modern techno as we know it was born in the urban neighborhoods of Detroit. Inspired by Kraftwerk, et al, because: "it was just classy and clean, and to us it was beautiful, like outer space. Living around Detroit, there was so little beauty... everything is an ugly mess in Detroit, and so we were attracted to this music. It (...) ignited our imagination!" The tech required to do it wasn't as expensive as "real" instruments, which made them more accessible. A drum machine was cheaper than a drum set, etc etc, the list goes on. Made the creation of music accessible to people for whom getting their hands on a decent guitar was a pipe dream. I could go into more of the roots of the rave scene, but it basically boils down to a community that fostered a lot of non-violent protests, a lot of hoodwinking cops, and a lot of partying until the sun came up. Booze was banned from a vast majority of them (through MDMA was there in abundance), and it wasn't uncommon for a lot of ravers to just be stone-cold sober for a lot of events that took place. The vibe from those days is described as welcoming, intense, and highly energetic-- easy to get swept up in, even if you weren't too fond of electronic music. Naturally, UK authorities hated it so much that they tried to make it illegal, even going so far as to ban large gatherings in which people listened to "sounds wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats." So, yeah, people in a position to really dislike anti-war, anti-authoritarianism (and minorities/poor people) loving hated it, deriding the participants as just a bunch of 'modern hippies'/sexual deviants. Things changed, obviously. Raves became more mainstream. Booze entered the scene, harder drugs. But there's still an appetite for it floating around out there, people who want to escape from commercial parties with ludicrous entry fees (as can be said with things like Burning Man). Enter the mobile caern-- what effectively boils down to a group of underground electronic artists that appear in random states around the US, and very possibly elsewhere. Creating it probably took figuring out it was even possible, ferreting the secret out of a Strider that actually had some idea of how it was done, and was actually willing to sign off on it in the first place. That it could be done at all might be enough to pique one's interest, and could establish a Strider presence in the sept, especially if there's a ready source of energy to draw from. Namely, the participants of the raves, themselves. Notes on the structure of the place:
And how does this thing function, anyway? Glad you asked! I have only sparing thoughts on that, but here's some poo poo that might help to pad that out:
Entirely possible they might recruit some trustworthy ~namebreakers~ to help out with preserving the veil, but that might be pushing things even further out of bounds. Also, given word of mouth, stories about these raves can and will spread, so intermittent events popping up on a seemingly random basis would be about the best cover they could hope for, rendering word of mouth to 'weird rumors.' Still, they run a very real risk of being discovered, and have definitely run afoul of something nasty more than once. How they dealt with it, and managed to preserve the Veil, is a big ??? that I didn't really have time to develop. Nonetheless, I'd been kicking this around on account of the idea that White Wolf/OPP never really gave the Garou credit for attempting to adapt to the world as it continues to crumble. True, there's structures put in place that practically murder adaptation before it's allowed to flourish, but it's hard to imagine that there aren't a few creative types out there both trying to keep pace with a dying world, as well as capture a sense of raw humanity that isn't often seen. There's a lot of people out there, and using them as little spiritual batteries of Good Vibes seems like an experiment worth trying. I'd imagine there'd be a loving lot of pushback if they were found out, just on the basis of the Veil alone. Then comes the accusations of Smells Like Weaver, and if they were caught negotiating with other supernaturals in the area to make things happen, that adds even more reason for The Establishment crashing down on their ~~sick beats~~, but that's why I like it. It invites a sense of creativity, and conflict, and could give characters a lot of room for debate as to how to deal with it. If, ultimately, the caern creates net positives in spite of what hardliners would see as obvious dealbreakers, is it worth saving? At the very least, the secret to creating mobile spiritual sites is a huge motivator to figure out what the gently caress, and it raises the question: why aren't they sharing this with other Garou? What the hell else is going on that they aren't saying? Is it 'too good to be true,' as in, all these guys are seriously corrupt, or is it running as-advertised? Anyway. Idea could just be me making GBS threads all over the rules, but, in fairness, White Wolf started it with their little unexplored footnotes. I haven't thought about how it is that it wakes up/goes to sleep, how it is that it was created, given the absurdly high stakes of the Rite of Caern Building, and whatnot, but see above re: I don't really have time to ST. If I did, I'd probably put in the footwork to mash it into the ruleset without it going all bull in a china shop. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 16:09
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I might use that idea, and I'm running a Mage Awakening 2e game. That's a sick idea. Clearly, I have fewer issues with destroying china shops with mashing things together. It fits the world we're playing in really well, and as they won't ever discover all the deep meanings part, it would be a really nice way to have some werewolves drop by for a while.
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Jan 16, 2020 16:59
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Dude!! That idea loving rules. I don't think I'm old enough to do the idea justice (born in '92) but that's really drat cool and I like it lots. Might tangentially mention something like it in my game; the need for an underground anti-authoritarian wild party scene is already served by the local Brujah clan's rants and raves, and a traveling caern like that probably wouldn't want to hang out in a city where vampires have a stranglehold on the working class. Or, hell, maybe they'd want to come in and shake up the status quo.
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Jan 16, 2020 18:17
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:How's the WW1 Dark Era with Geists and Werewolves shaking out? It was the only one of the new batch that looked particularly interesting to me. As someone who didn't know much about the war it's pretty informative about the things that are going to affect you (the Wire of Death is real, brutal). It's well written with story options and suggestions for handling different tiers (one - trench level, two - no man's land, three - the war room). It's Geist, Werewolf and Promethean, and I'm not that strong on my Promethean stuff but I've heard complaints about the new Lineage there (they seem to have solely come forth in WW1 and are otherwise a lost Lineage). The werewolf section is suitably chaotic and war-like, with a nice tie-in to the plot going on in ancient Egypt, and the Sin-eaters are in abundance, it would be hard to imagine not finding things for a krewe to do even without the offered plot hooks (the gas-bone chemist is a Bound who has thrown in his lot with death and destruction), along with a briefly covered Domain nearby called La Terre Des Héros with its Kerberos and go-to reaper. Nazi Hunting is a big part of the Golden Age of Sci-Fi era. Taking place during/around WW2 but in America (specifically LA and New York), Nazi sympathizers are trying to curry support (or acting as parts of conspiracies, in the Deviant section). Deviant really doubles down on the Nazi punching here (the core was great for it). nofather fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 19:23
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MonsieurChoc posted:A lot of nazis were canonically soul-forged into the gates of the Dark Kingdom fo Wire. There's group fo wraiths that hunt their ghosts across the world to bring them back and be added to the list. Nazi hunting ghosts is awesome and one of the few "Okay that owns" things from Charnell houses that wasn't just depressing as gently caress.
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Jan 16, 2020 19:31
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I'm not into running oWoD anymore, except maybe Wraith if the planets align, but I would totally steal that spirit rave idea for Awakening maybe with some Forsaken crossover. Very cool.
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Jan 16, 2020 20:09
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nofather posted:As someone who didn't know much about the war it's pretty informative about the things that are going to affect you (the Wire of Death is real, brutal). It's well written with story options and suggestions for handling different tiers (one - trench level, two - no man's land, three - the war room). It's Geist, Werewolf and Promethean, and I'm not that strong on my Promethean stuff but I've heard complaints about the new Lineage there (they seem to have solely come forth in WW1 and are otherwise a lost Lineage). The werewolf section is suitably chaotic and war-like, with a nice tie-in to the plot going on in ancient Egypt, and the Sin-eaters are in abundance, it would be hard to imagine not finding things for a krewe to do even without the offered plot hooks (the gas-bone chemist is a Bound who has thrown in his lot with death and destruction), along with a briefly covered Domain nearby called La Terre Des Héros with its Kerberos and go-to reaper. Guess it's time to wait for this one to hit drivethru huh?
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Jan 16, 2020 20:14
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:This sounds cool as hell, thanks for the info! Considering the price of PoD for such big books, nevermind the at-best "okay" quality of the PoD binding, it might cost the same or even a little less to hit the preorder on the Kickstarter/Backerkit if that's still open.
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Jan 16, 2020 20:25
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That Old Tree posted:Considering the price of PoD for such big books, nevermind the at-best "okay" quality of the PoD binding, it might cost the same or even a little less to hit the preorder on the Kickstarter/Backerkit if that's still open.
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Jan 16, 2020 20:32
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Yeah from what I hear you can do the Backerkit for $20 and get the PDF pretty instantly, or pre-order the hardback from it whenever it might come out. Nice that they've streamlined the process so but outside of Hunter it seems like they might be winding down the Kickstarters at this point.
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Jan 16, 2020 20:33
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That Old Tree posted:I'm not into running oWoD anymore, except maybe Wraith if the planets align, but I would totally steal that spirit rave idea for Awakening maybe with some Forsaken crossover. Very cool. I will note that 2nd NWoD Geist gives rules for PC Ghosts if you wanted to go that route. Unless you were a KS backer, it'll probably be a little bit before that's available even in pdf, though.
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Jan 16, 2020 20:51
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Now that I've got Dark Eras 2, I'm looking at the last section (golden age of science) and wondering: What is this "Platonic Body" Variation they refer to for Deviant? The sample character has it, it's an option for Supersoldiers, and it doesn't exist in any of the Deviant backer PDFs I have.
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Jan 16, 2020 20:59
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Now that I've got Dark Eras 2, I'm looking at the last section (golden age of science) and wondering: What is this "Platonic Body" Variation they refer to for Deviant? The sample character has it, it's an option for Supersoldiers, and it doesn't exist in any of the Deviant backer PDFs I have. Searched for it and on the Discord the developer (Eric) said before the Kickstarter Platonic Body got renamed to Rapid Healing. nofather fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 21:56
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Everyone posted:I will note that 2nd NWoD Geist gives rules for PC Ghosts if you wanted to go that route. Unless you were a KS backer, it'll probably be a little bit before that's available even in pdf, though. Should finally be dropping for non-backers soon, as they're preparing to ship hardcovers out for backers now. Typically those two things happen at the same time, since they need the post-errata layout to print the hardcover, and that's the stage where they release for non-backers. Going to pay close attention to the post-errata version of Geist. I spotted some serious errors in the errata phase, and spotted a couple more only very recently, too late to really submit for errata. (Example submitted erratum: the Integrity trait recurs several times, but the rules section does not actually explain what Integrity is or does, a problem for a stand-alone corebook. Example unsubmitted error: the benefit of the Veined Merit for playable ghosts lets you spend Essence as if you were one Rank higher, but ghostly Rank explicitly does not limit how much Essence you can spend in the first place.)
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Jan 16, 2020 22:27
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