|
Superb writeup. This is a really strong late series ep.Jerusalem posted:Oh? So he's ARGUING with Tony now, is he? Chris, right behind Perry, taking it all in for the screenplay  Other things I liked: John's "instructions" to Eric to call him Dad. "DON'T EAT THAT PEPPER!!" Paulie's tattoo- did that used to say "Mother"/"Mom" before he got it blacked out and had "Good Luck" done above it? CharlestheHammer posted:I like the Tony fight because it’s anime as gently caress lol Kinda weird how they used a song from the previous episode- The Three Bells- never really dug it but idk Also the only place near where I work that I could get a bialy was Starbucks and I learned recently they don't have it anymore! Though I think it could have used more onions... I also thought the place he ends up was the cushy lock-up for the reason that in Made in America Janice comes to Tony and says Junior is out of money and will have to be transferred to a state-run facility, where he later visits him. Harold Stassen fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 15, 2020 |
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 00:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:26 |
|
|
Man...I was dreading this write up because I know the Vito storyline was controversial and divisive but... I like it. I was a closeted bi man at the time and seeing the show at least try to deal with the issue, especially in the context of the mafia, to me felt like Chase trying to do something even more contemporary with the idea of The Modern Mob. I guess you could argue it got played out too much but I thought overall it was brave, especially using an actor who's not physically attractive and who plays against stereotypes in that way. That whole collection scene in the gay bar is cringey and awkward in the worst way, recalling times I got "caught" outside of my comfort zone when I was married and Vito's reaction is hard to watch. Adding the layer of toxic masculinity to it and Tony's approach, informed not only by therapy but by how much MONEY Vito made and how few problems he created (unlike Ralph and Ritchie or other big earners), was an interesting angle to take. I've heard a lot of rumors and gossip that the Vito actor was not well liked on the show and that his story line was shoe horned in in ways that pissed off the rest of the cast but I can never confirm it. I didn't think it felt shoe horned but parts of it were semi over the top. I brought up the lack of stereotypes but then again you had to put Vito in leather with a leash so...I can see people's problems with it but overall I thought it was a courageous story to explore. And is it that weird for a father to cry at his daughter's wedding? I've cried at weddings before. Or was it what Phil said?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 00:20
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:And is it that weird for a father to cry at his daughter's wedding? I've cried at weddings before. Or was it what Phil said? It's not unusual at all, and if Johnny had cried at any point during the ceremony or the dance or anything like that nobody would have blinked. It's the fact that he breaks down crying at the end as he's being cuffed that throws Phil and the others for a loop. Tony is more sympathetic but his efforts to couch it as Johnny just being overwhelmed by the day itself don't hold any water for Phil in this context, and you can see Tony start to worry that now HE is the one potentially being looked at as soft. I really, really love this episode. The wedding itself is so strong that I'm always surprised that it also includes Tony beating up poor Perry to re-establish his standing in the eyes of the crew, and especially surprised to remember it's when the Vito storyline really kicks into high gear. COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:I also thought the place he ends up was the cushy lock-up for the reason that in Made in America Janice comes to Tony and says Junior is out of money and will have to be transferred to a state-run facility, where he later visits him. I think the sad thing is that the place they send Junior is probably one of the better public facilities, and that the section in your spoiler refers to him being sent to an even worse place once he's out of money and the Government has basically stopped caring about doing anything with him. I can't imagine any private facility just dumping a new patient into his room for a doctor to eventually find and do a check-up on when they get around to it. Maybe I'm wrong though, and if that IS the "cushy lockup" then the mental healthcare facilities in America are even worse than I thought they were.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 01:08
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:It's not unusual at all, and if Johnny had cried at any point during the ceremony or the dance or anything like that nobody would have blinked. It's the fact that he breaks down crying at the end as he's being cuffed that throws Phil and the others for a loop. Tony is more sympathetic but his efforts to couch it as Johnny just being overwhelmed by the day itself don't hold any water for Phil in this context, and you can see Tony start to worry that now HE is the one potentially being looked at as soft. Yeah, the idea is you need to be a Man to do the kind of hard time John is looking at and he kind of ruined the illusion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 01:14
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Maybe I'm wrong though, and if that IS the "cushy lockup" then the mental healthcare facilities in America are even worse than I thought they were. Yeah, it's not great. There was a big thing in the early '80s with Reagan closing a lot of the publicly run mental health facilities and essentially turning those without a support system out into the street. What remains I'm sure is far from "cushy"- and I would say because of that particular word being used in the headline that it is more or less an invention of the media. In their parlance probably anything other than a concrete cell (which, his room- with a view of a tree no less- is admittedly better than) would qualify as "cushy".
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 01:14
|
|
|
When I remembered it I thought the Vito thing was way earlier, way before the final season. In that regard, I dislike how much focus it got and that one could suggest it even set off the endgame.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 01:36
|
|
|
Great write-up for a great episode. BiggerBoat posted:
Fist bump. Samesies.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 06:11
|
|
|
codo27 posted:When I remembered it I thought the Vito thing was way earlier, way before the final season. In that regard, I dislike how much focus it got and that one could suggest it even set off the endgame. Well technically it started when Finn caught Vito in the parking lot so maybe you're remembering that?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 12:30
|
|
|
Things get pretty fast and loose in the final season, dont they. So many things happening so fast, people appearing out of nowhere. We watched Stage 5 last night. I was going to see the credits out but she made me turn it off because the music made her uncomfortable
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 13:15
|
|
|
Also note carefully that it’s the same clip of Tony vomiting shown twice. It’s done in such a way that you don’t even notice.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 13:23
|
|
|
Milo and POTUS posted:Were there any other mob guys who were faithful besides Bobby Jr? I could have sworn there was another. I've been reading the fan wikis for the last few days because I'm bored depends on your definition of faithful and your interpretation of the show there's a scene with the icelandic air stewardesses where johnny's in his undershirt, smoking a cigarette, watching two of these naked who-ers make out me, personally, i choose believe he engaged in Sex Acts
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 13:23
|
|
|
Thats Tony not Johnny Johnny left with Carmine
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 14:00
|
|
|
I remember when this episode came out I was very close to becoming a college drop out and I was working at Blockbuster. So it was kinda demoralizing to watch, but of course at the time I didn't have the perspective to understand that yea, working at a Blockbuster(or any retail gig) is an honest job that shouldn't be a source of shame and the only reason Tony might feel that way is because he's a sad, broken person.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 16:27
|
|
|
The Vito storyline is worth it just for that scene where he tries to work a normal job.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 17:33
|
|
|
Big Dick Cheney posted:The Vito storyline is worth it just for that scene where he tries to work a normal job. Treat yahself! 
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 17:36
|
|
|
Johnnycakes do sound pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 17:40
|
|
|
He took a serious gamble with that fight too, leaning heavy on Perry's hothead to fight back, but not being so hotheaded as to drive a fist down the centerline at his surgical site.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 22:01
|
|
|
Maybe because I'm straight I don't know but I feel like the gay bar scene was written by very straight dudes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 22:35
|
|
|
Keep in mind we're creeping up on 15 years ago now. But the leather get ups cant be that common among the gays can it? Theme night at the bar?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 23:12
|
|
|
This was in New York City where places like that absolutely exist, I’ve been in a few of them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 23:20
|
|
|
BrotherJayne posted:He took a serious gamble with that fight too, leaning heavy on Perry's hothead to fight back, but not being so hotheaded as to drive a fist down the centerline at his surgical site. To a point. He was well aware he had ample backup if Perry got the upper hand. His crew would have been all over him. Bip Roberts posted:Maybe because I'm straight I don't know but I feel like the gay bar scene was written by very straight dudes. It kind of was but I HAVE been in bars like that and had a gay roommate for a while that was into leather , S&M, bondage and self hatred so it wasn't entirely made up so much as it was heavy handed. I don't know. As a bi man who's something like 80% straight and who prefers women sexually, sometimes the urge to explore the other side can be strong, especially if things aren't going well with your wife/girlfriend and I always took that scene as Vito being triggered by the wedding. His wife even said "he always gets that way at weddings" so I read it as him being trapped in the marriage and the masculine nature of the mob. Also, it was a convenient plot device for why fellow mobsters would show up and bust him red handed, so to speak. I guess you could have them find out by finding a Craigslist history in a shared laptop or something but those dudes collecting just finding him having coffee or chilling out having drinks with another man would have been too easily explained. Butching him out in that locale was a way of not giving him plausible deniability or being able to make up a story so if they were going to go there with the plot they needed something more than Finn who just wanted nothing to do with it and didn't even care as far as I could tell.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 23:21
|
|
|
Yeah, the old man blurting out to Aunt Louise "Don't eat that peppa!!!" is one of those little moments in this show that gets me every time. And also, yeah the crazy song at the end of Stage Five is absolutely chilling, as it plays while Phil is saying "No more, Butchie." It evokes such an incredible feeling of doom, and you just know the big mob war that's been teased for several seasons, but never actually happened, is now on the horizon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2020 23:26
|
|
|
Yeah the impression I got was definitely that the wedding was really hitting Vito hard in terms of him kind of being forced to face the fact that his own marriage is largely (not entirely, next episode he takes a photo of he and his wife with him, he does genuinely love/have affection for her) a sham covering up his real identity.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2020 02:49
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Yeah, the idea is you need to be a Man to do the kind of hard time John is looking at and he kind of ruined the illusion. And Phil ended up being proven right. Johnny does end up pleading guilty and breaking Omertà by admitting the existence of the family and his role in it. It's barbaric and twisted masculinity, but there is a savage logic for why they have these codes of conduct. It's like how Tony feels the need to beat up Perry for no reason. Its mean and stupid, but Tony is ultimately successful in reclaiming his authority by being a bully.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2020 09:11
|
|
|
Bip Roberts posted:Maybe because I'm straight I don't know but I feel like the gay bar scene was written by very straight dudes. Yeah it was very police academy  I felt like I was seeing my religious grandmother's idea of how homosexuals spend their free time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2020 11:17
|
|
|
The whole arc has some real eye-rolly bits like that one and then a ep or two later when Johnny Cakes dude rolls up to a burning building in his firemans gear on his harley and immediately runs off to save some kid and is the hero of the day.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2020 23:14
|
|
|
Pretty convenient that he high tails it out of town as he's outed and the first person he runs into is Mr. Handlebars. There some stereotype about NH I'm not aware of? I just tried to conjure his image in my head (and I just seen this poo poo days ago) and all I can see is.. What's the guys name from Office Space? Main characters neighbor?
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2020 23:35
|
|
|
Every time I see him I think its the dude who made the Supersize Me documentary. For all the gay people in that one little town he sure does settle for Vito the parade float pretty quick.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2020 00:08
|
|
|
Rudager posted:The whole arc has some real eye-rolly bits like that one and then a ep or two later when Johnny Cakes dude rolls up to a burning building in his firemans gear on his harley and immediately runs off to save some kid and is the hero of the day. Even before he meets Johnny Cakes, Vito goes into an antique store and the guy working there is like "wow you're a natural at picking out expensive antiques", as if that's like a super power that all gay men have.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2020 16:05
|
|
|
At least The Sopranos' depiction of gay people is leagues ahead of Oz.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2020 16:16
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Even before he meets Johnny Cakes, Vito goes into an antique store and the guy working there is like "wow you're a natural at picking out expensive antiques", as if that's like a super power that all gay men have. There are also the other gay fire fighters in the bar whose couple dialog could have been written for Family Guy 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2020 23:47
|
|
|
3 episodes left on my first rewatch. It's definitely the weak point of the series. Jesus it's all so fast. I mean god drat there's a little tension but no different than we've had all series but big heads gotta roll in the next 3 hours.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2020 04:30
|
|
|
AJ is such a tragic figure all his life he's being simultaneously fed this hosed up vision of what a man is supposed to be, while at the same time being refused the sort of experiences and risks that conforms to that image, e.g. the aborted fight in school. so he slacks - he's not allowed to be who he's supposed to be, but never given any encouragement in another direction either. he only really comes into his own when he plays dad to hector and gets a measure of recognition and respect based on his own merits and actions as a person which lets him shape up a bit he's a really good character imo
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2020 16:31
|
|
|
Yes the circumstances are sorta tragic but he is still a lazy stupid bag of poo poo* and I hate him. * this proven beyond any shadow of a doubt by his insta flip once he gets the cushy job and M3 Finished rewatch #1 the other night. Spoilers really necessary? Who hasn't seen it by this time? Anyway, This time I 100% believe he bought it. Like Chase said, "its all there". Cant tell you how tense I was though beginning that final scene, even knowing the outcome. The way it seems so uplifting once the music changes, like you are getting that happy ending after all. The cues in how the lyrics are matched to the images on screen was brilliant as well. Of course you have your arguments against it, Tony himself remarking that "the family isn't touched", would it be done in their presence like that? Why the suspense though with Meadow parking if not to suggest that maybe she could have prevented it had she been there. You've all speculated on this a million times I'm sure. The flashback with Bobby's comment about "not even hearing it" (ya know I had forgotten he died) Whats it all for? I know one thing. gently caress Phil. No respect for that man, he can take his 20 years in the can and shove em up his rear end. Ornery entitled prick. Glad he got it the way he did, only not soon enough. Gf was mostly upset Sil got shot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2020 17:06
|
|
|
codo27 posted:Yes the circumstances are sorta tragic but he is still a lazy stupid bag of poo poo* and I hate him. They also redid the back wall in the diner, even though they didn't have to. The numbers on the 2 football players that flank Tony are 22 and 38. There's also a tiger mascot and Tony has a tiger tattoo. There's the member's only jacket and the repeated door chime (for whom the bell tolls). "It's all there" indeed I think.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2020 18:08
|
|
|
codo27 posted:I know one thing. gently caress Phil. No respect for that man, he can take his 20 years in the can and shove em up his rear end. Ornery entitled prick. Glad he got it the way he did, only not soon enough. gently caress Phil for sure, but they did his rear end too dirty they blew his brains out in front of his grandkids! Also, two gunshots in a gas stations would send people running and ducking, it always bugged me that all those bystanders are just standing around during that scene. I forgot the guy who pulls the trigger is Garnier from Band of Brothers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2020 18:22
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:They also redid the back wall in the diner, even though they didn't have to. The numbers on the 2 football players that flank Tony are 22 and 38. There's also a tiger mascot and Tony has a tiger tattoo. There's the member's only jacket and the repeated door chime (for whom the bell tolls). "It's all there" indeed I think. Are those supposed to infer bullet calibers? Kinda weak if they're supposed to penetrate Tony's portly rear end.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2020 19:16
|
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:Are those supposed to infer bullet calibers? Kinda weak if they're supposed to penetrate Tony's portly rear end. That was my read. Struck me as an odd coincidence at least.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2020 20:27
|
|
|
ruddiger posted:gently caress Phil for sure, but they did his rear end too dirty they blew his brains out in front of his grandkids! Also, two gunshots in a gas stations would send people running and ducking, it always bugged me that all those bystanders are just standing around during that scene.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2020 20:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 23:26 |
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:They also redid the back wall in the diner, even though they didn't have to. The numbers on the 2 football players that flank Tony are 22 and 38. There's also a tiger mascot and Tony has a tiger tattoo. There's the member's only jacket and the repeated door chime (for whom the bell tolls). "It's all there" indeed I think. Oh trust me, I'm well aware of all the details like that
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2020 21:51
|
|