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Neodoomium posted:Red Shoes v. Bullet Club is an ongoing storyline that has never failed to entertain me. The Young Bucks selling Red Shoes’ Suck It, forever and ever
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Jan 13, 2020 09:54
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I think the problem with ref gimmicks in WWE/WCW and the like is that they need to go all in on them in order to be consistent, but this is nigh-impossible with the amount of screen time there is to cover in those promotions. Like, Nick Patrick was WCW's de facto Evil Ref from the NWO onwards, and as such he ended up reffing every single match on the first Souled Out pay-per-view, because it was supposed to be an NWO show. The problem was that he couldn't do his shenanigans in every single match without just compromising the whole thing, so he ended up officiating most of the matches normally and saving most of his antics for the main event, which I think even the all-heel commentary team of Eric Bischoff (essentially the PROMOTER) and Ted Dibiase questioned out loud. When he went to WWE for the Invasion it sort of happened again. He was an Evil Ref because he wouldn't count the falls when a WWE guy had a WCW guy pinned for a WCW title, through a variety of wheezes like faking injuries and falsely disqualifying people (Michael Cole repeatedly referred to him as "somewhat biased" in response). Earl Hebner took umbrage with this (actually he just objected to the WCW refs putting their stupid smelly bags on the WWE side of the changing room!) and had a "match" with Patrick at the Invasion pay-per-view. This ended with Patrick getting his comeuppance via Mick Foley and Mr Socko. The Invasion, however, still wouldn't end for a number of months, so Patrick had to do his heel schtick sometimes - but not all the time. Basically whenever it was needed for a screwy finish. In fairness, his "CURSES! FOILED AGAIN!!" mannerisms whenever the WWE guys would win (which was always) were pretty funny, but it still didn't make much sense. But then you have even more eye-rolling cases, like Slick Johnson in TNA was an Evil Ref because he took sexual favours from Evil Women. Because it was TNA.
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Jan 13, 2020 13:06
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Hedgehog Pie posted:But then you have even more eye-rolling cases, like Slick Johnson in TNA was an Evil Ref because he took sexual favours from Evil Women. Because it was TNA.  How did anyone take TNA seriously?
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Jan 13, 2020 13:18
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extradite THIS! posted:
No one ever did
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Jan 13, 2020 13:28
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Son of Man posted:No one ever did I've heard enough about rabid TNA hardcore fans to know this isn't the case!
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Jan 13, 2020 13:31
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They let the X-Division guys go wild in the openers for like 5 years. That's it, that's why there were ardent TNA fans. Then Russo started writing for them.
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Jan 13, 2020 14:26
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TriffTshngo posted:They let the X-Division guys go wild in the openers for like 5 years. That's it, that's why there were ardent TNA fans. Then Russo started writing for them. They also had AJ Styles in his prime as one of their main event guys for a while. TNA always had its share of problems, but it had its good points prior to Hogan & Bischoff showing up.
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Jan 13, 2020 15:09
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Hogan got rid of that stupid ring, so he'll always be better than what came before
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Jan 13, 2020 15:42
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rujasu posted:They also had AJ Styles in his prime as one of their main event guys for a while. TNA always had its share of problems, but it had its good points prior to Hogan & Bischoff showing up. AJ would get brief main event runs and then immediately be shuffled down for the real stars after a month or two. The real stars being Jeff Jarrett mostly but at least by 2007 he was being made a mid card geek for someone like Christian who was actually entertaining.
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Jan 13, 2020 15:58
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I remember the FSN era being really great. Am I misremembering? In my hazy memory, it was when the X Division was getting a lot of attention and we got those crazy tag team matches (including the tag team cage match) between AMW and XXX. My timeline is most likely off and just mashing together all of the stuff I liked.
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Jan 13, 2020 16:00
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Ganso Bomb posted:I remember the FSN era being really great. Am I misremembering? In my hazy memory, it was when the X Division was getting a lot of attention and we got those crazy tag team matches (including the tag team cage match) between AMW and XXX. It was a mixed bag. The show was OK and had better wrestling than the Russo era, but the company's direction was incredibly boring in 2004. It only got worse as they brought in Hall, Nash, Savage, DDP and pushing some really bad projects. But there were still some great matches to counter the bad stuff. But maybe half of the PPVs were good? It was the 4-5 months between going off FSN and then debuting on Spike where the company fired on all cylinders because they looked at those months as inconsequential and let someone other than Jarrett have the belt and actually let the X Division main event.
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Jan 13, 2020 16:29
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The storylines were always bad in TNA, but yeah, I remember enjoying the mid-card stuff on FSN. I remember a lot of AMW vs. Team Canada (even in the mid-2000's it was totally nuts that Petey Williams was allowed to do that flip-over piledriver move in an actual televised wrestling promotion) and yeah, the X-Division was actually fantastic for a while when Joe, AJ, and Daniels were all part of it. They looked like they might really be going somewhere when Christian & Sting showed up. Sure, Sting was in his 40's, but even at that age he was more compelling than most guys you were going to see on TV. Also I was the one guy who actually liked the hexagonal ring
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Jan 13, 2020 18:45
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The ring was fine, especially when the roster was mostly smaller guys who had worked in TNA for years. Part of it was the six sided ring in the Impact Zone was a huge upgrade over the 4 sided ring in the atrociously low rent Asylum, but it was an OK production look at first.
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Jan 13, 2020 19:27
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"Shooter" Mark Curtis was the best referee. "Pee Wee" Randy Anderson was good too.
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Jan 13, 2020 19:38
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TriffTshngo posted:They let the X-Division guys go wild in the openers for like 5 years. That's it, that's why there were ardent TNA fans. Then Russo started writing for them.
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Jan 13, 2020 19:50
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As a kid I always liked Joey Marella as a referee.
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Jan 13, 2020 19:57
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I like how Earl Hebner smacked the mat for a three count, good full arm extension. Nick Patrick did a stupid little T-rex flailing forearm slap that I always hated. Tim White always sounded like he was counting the 1 when he dropped to the floor, leading to many confusing 2-counts that sounded like 3-counts, or actual 3-counts that sounded like 4-counts and hurt the finish a little.
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Jan 13, 2020 20:19
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MassRafTer posted:AJ would get brief main event runs and then immediately be shuffled down for the real stars after a month or two. The real stars being Jeff Jarrett mostly but at least by 2007 he was being made a mid card geek for someone like Christian who was actually entertaining. The only memorable TNA promo I saw was Hogan talking to reporters backstage then Jarrett assaulted him with a guitar, laying out on the floor and leaving. Hogan groans in pain, cut.
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Jan 13, 2020 23:56
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Schneider Heim posted:The only memorable TNA promo I saw was Hogan talking to reporters backstage then Jarrett assaulted him with a guitar, laying out on the floor and leaving. Hogan groans in pain, cut. OK but name one pro wrestler from the 2000's who wasn't hit by one of Jarrett's guitars at some point
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Jan 13, 2020 23:59
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MassRafTer posted:It was a mixed bag. The show was OK and had better wrestling than the Russo era, but the company's direction was incredibly boring in 2004. It only got worse as they brought in Hall, Nash, Savage, DDP and pushing some really bad projects. But there were still some great matches to counter the bad stuff. But maybe half of the PPVs were good? Ahh that's right. I totally forgot about that period between FSN and Spike.
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Jan 14, 2020 00:57
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I’ve always wanted a ref who never got down and counted, he just stood there and yelled out 1 2 3. It’s how they do count outs why not pins?
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Jan 14, 2020 03:59
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They need to see the shoulder, to slide their hands neath
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Jan 14, 2020 04:14
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Question about Chris Jericho: Was he known for anything before WCW? I remembered him in WCW before his heel turn as basically being a solid babyface and having good matches but not much else. Then the heel turn happened (Which was a treat to watch in real time) then he suddenly became amazing.
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Jan 14, 2020 04:58
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Unlucky7 posted:Question about Chris Jericho: Was he known for anything before WCW? I remembered him in WCW before his heel turn as basically being a solid babyface and having good matches but not much else. Then the heel turn happened (Which was a treat to watch in real time) then he suddenly became amazing. He was being very good in Japan and Mexico. And ECW for a bit.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:03
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Karl Ontario posted:I think it is a nostalgia thing, most people associate him with their first memories of watching wrestling and assume he must have been good since he was in WWF/WWE for so long. I kinda like refs who have character, and she knows when to turn it on and off in a way that adds to a match instead of distracts from it imo. She’s effective and when she calls people on poo poo it holds more meaning than some random ref the fans have no reason to respect
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Jan 14, 2020 05:46
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Unlucky7 posted:Question about Chris Jericho: Was he known for anything before WCW? I remembered him in WCW before his heel turn as basically being a solid babyface and having good matches but not much else. Then the heel turn happened (Which was a treat to watch in real time) then he suddenly became amazing. Him and Lance Storm in SMW was his first US breakout and basically what got him any attention that lead to later booking, he literally got hired cause Cornette saw him on a Lance Storm tape
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Jan 14, 2020 05:50
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Karl Ontario posted:I think it is a nostalgia thing, most people associate him with their first memories of watching wrestling and assume he must have been good since he was in WWF/WWE for so long. this is why paul turner is secretly the best referee
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Jan 14, 2020 05:53
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Unlucky7 posted:Question about Chris Jericho: Was he known for anything before WCW? I remembered him in WCW before his heel turn as basically being a solid babyface and having good matches but not much else. Then the heel turn happened (Which was a treat to watch in real time) then he suddenly became amazing. He was a pretty big star in CMLL at a time when they were building new stars after so many top stars left to form AAA. He was doing more WAR but was still in Mexico pretty regularly.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:57
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oldpainless posted:I’ve always wanted a ref who never got down and counted, he just stood there and yelled out 1 2 3. It’s how they do count outs why not pins? They did this in old school British Wrestling, as personified by the legendary Max Ward.  Not so much 1 2 3 as ONE-EHHHHH TWO-EHHHHHH THREEEEEEHHH
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Jan 14, 2020 09:18
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just as long as nobody steals my ref gimmick of counting pins and count outs in 1-Mississippi 2-Mississippi
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Jan 14, 2020 17:09
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I remember hearing somewhere that watching old matches with Earl Hebner refereeing, he kinda kicks his leg when it isn't the real finish and the guy is gonna kick out. And once you see it you can never unsee it. But I never bothered to verify if that is true because I don't care enough. But one of you might!
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Jan 15, 2020 00:48
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JK! posted:If you read his diaries you'd know how great he is. 
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Jan 15, 2020 03:58
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When did Delirious lose the book at ROH?
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Jan 15, 2020 19:45
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I think Meltzer said he’s still lead booker but Marty Scurll is on the booking team now.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:01
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Nystral posted:When did Delirious lose the book at ROH? I can tell you when he should have lost the book, which is 3 seconds after he got it.
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Jan 15, 2020 20:18
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Ganso Bomb posted:Ahh that's right. I totally forgot about that period between FSN and Spike. It was also, for some reason, when they decided to bring Joe in and push him with the undefeated gimmick, which unsurprisingly got over big. (I think he even worked Liger during this)
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Jan 16, 2020 00:12
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Q: is Marty Scurll taking the book at RoH the right move for him? The guy could go anywhere and do well. WWE would want him and pay him handsomely, AEW is his natutal home and would also pay him a bunch. Why is he sticking with Ring of Honor? Can he even book?
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Jan 16, 2020 00:19
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:Q: is Marty Scurll taking the book at RoH the right move for him? The guy could go anywhere and do well. WWE would want him and pay him handsomely, AEW is his natutal home and would also pay him a bunch. Why is he sticking with Ring of Honor? Can he even book? They're throwing stupid money at him to work 40 dates a year and book. Its a great short term move for him, and AEW will probably be waiting for him if it doesn't work. Also, because AEW has a larger roster than ROH they may not be able to match what Sinclair threw at him. AEW might have been more personally satisfying but I bet every other member of the Elite 100% understands him doing what's best for his long term finances.
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Jan 16, 2020 00:26
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Honestly they might see him as an ace in the hole. Play out what they've got booked for a year while he works on his storytelling and makes good money, and then in early 2021 the AEW thread fills up with "it is Wednesday, my villains" frogs in plague doctor masks. Wrestling has a tendency to toss away its old toys for new ones before finishing the game, so I'm content for Marty to be a later surprise.
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Jan 16, 2020 00:32
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In a year the competition may heat up to the point where he'd get more for jumping ship then than he would now.
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Jan 16, 2020 00:32
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