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There are a lot of things in this game I appreciated that smarter, more articulate people were able to describe perfectly, but there's one very ugly facet of the detective's character that kept coming up that really stuck with me, as someone who has struggled with suicidal ideation on the daily for the majority of my sham life. I feel like that's just not something really touched on in video games, for frankly good loving reason, and in a way it was kind of refreshing to have that mirror held up, too, alongside other relatable traumas like addiction and ex-somethings. For instance, when examining the ledger, the random text option to "just loving kill yourself you rear end in a top hat" inexplicably popping up alongside the more mundane options rang so true to the intrusive sort of thoughts that can plague you when you're really catastrophically depressed -- those felt like exact words I've used to speak to myself a million times, for even the most minor of situations I've balked at. Wanting to avoid what you know is inevitable but frankly momentary pain with the most final of all solutions instead, as some hosed up coping mechanism... that's one of the standout moments of the game to me. That fact that this persistent pattern of ideation can be internalized as thought, too, was incredible to me. Finger on the Eject Button, which I earned after telling the twins in the fishing village that there was nothing wrong with suicide and my particularly sensitive Harry was planning to do so himself -- all after they'd mentioned that's how they lost their dad. Kim was absolutely livid with my Harry for saying so, and then I got this insane thought I couldn't believe was put into the game. I was simultaneously shocked but also, I guess, amused when I saw that was an option at all as dialogue. It's such a heinous thing to say to a couple of kids, one of whom was crying, and yet it spoke to me. Kim's rightful rebuke and the ensuing thought for my addled sorry, apocalyptic communist cabinet really drove home the idea that just because it was such a casual, laughable-in-its-regularity option to me didn't mean it was entirely appropriate nor near as funny to those around me who'd had to hear this bile I'd internalized as "totally fine" and "inevitable." All this to say that Disco Elysium made me go back to therapy and I think about it constantly and love it a lot for affecting me in a way no other game has. Also please don't ban me; I'm not in crisis, I'm getting treatment. I just have a lot of fond feelings for this game's depiction of the heavier topics. It's kind of nice to play as an unrepentant messy piece of poo poo, for once.
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Jan 16, 2020 04:14
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 23:16 |
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JARATE CURES SPIES posted:There are a lot of things in this game I appreciated that smarter, more articulate people were able to describe perfectly, but there's one very ugly facet of the detective's character that kept coming up that really stuck with me, as someone who has struggled with suicidal ideation on the daily for the majority of my sham life. I feel like that's just not something really touched on in video games, for frankly good loving reason, and in a way it was kind of refreshing to have that mirror held up, too, alongside other relatable traumas like addiction and ex-somethings. I like all of this, although it does raise the question of the portrayals of suicide and depression in media. I always worry about it, because of stuff like the suicide contagion effect or the romanticizing of depression. I'm curious how others feel this game does with those issues. The other game I played that related to depression was Doki Doki Literature Club, and hoo boy do I have some thoughts on that. My character ends up walking in on another character having hung themselves, and it's done in a way that was clearly intended for maximum shock value. I actually ended up fainting shortly afterwards because the image was so upsetting and, for lack of a better word "triggering". I guess it gave me a panic attack. Then, later on you get a character who self-harms escalate to violently stabbing themselves, and you realize a lot of the discussions of depression and mental illness were more for shock value, rather than discussing them in any sort of helpful way, and I ended up feeling pretty angry about how exploitative it felt. Disco Elysium doesn't feel exploitative to me. It feels like something that's very personal and real, without being sensationalistic about it.
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Jan 16, 2020 06:27
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Has there been anymore talk about the upcoming expansion for this yet? I need more!
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Jan 16, 2020 06:33
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Entorwellian posted:Has there been anymore talk about the upcoming expansion for this yet? I need more! Wait is that a thing?
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Jan 16, 2020 06:34
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Wait is that a thing?
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Jan 16, 2020 06:38
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Wait is that a thing? Sequel and a tabletop PnP game too in the future. Think the devs said that they want the sequel to do what Baldurs Gate 2 did to Baldurs Gate 1. Entorwellian fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 06:39
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This game has ruined ham sandwiches for me. I can't enjoy a honey baked on rye without feeling like my race has been superceded.
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Jan 16, 2020 07:29
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Zero VGS posted:This game has ruined ham sandwiches for me. I can't enjoy a honey baked on rye without feeling like my race has been superceded.
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Jan 16, 2020 08:19
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We have tried many slurs to bring the white race low, and no one could have predicted that "ham sandwich" would emerge the victor.
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Jan 16, 2020 09:16
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Ham sandwich sounds more like a slur against horny cops to me.
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Jan 16, 2020 10:31
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Zero VGS posted:This game has ruined ham sandwiches for me. I can't enjoy a honey baked on rye without feeling like my race has been superceded. I am seriously considering adopting this insult in real life. Only thing that stops me is that most people around me are potatoes and I am not racist enough to tell the difference between us and the ham sandwiches on first glance.
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Jan 16, 2020 10:59
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Caufman posted:We have tried many slurs to bring the white race low, and no one could have predicted that "ham sandwich" would emerge the victor. 
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Jan 16, 2020 14:13
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VictualSquid posted:OK, ham sandwich. Maybe if you got skull measurements tattooed somewhere that might help...
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Jan 16, 2020 14:31
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Xanderkish posted:Disco Elysium doesn't feel exploitative to me. It feels like something that's very personal and real, without being sensationalistic about it. Same. I appreciate that it is actually mature, or adult, whereas most "mature" content is depressingly juvenile and superficial. The last time I've felt like that was a Croteam game, of all things. The snippets of mails, diary entries, and chat logs in The Talos Principle were written in a way that made the characters feel very human, unwilling to directly directly mention the looming apocalypse that would kill them all in the end. I have never before played a game that felt so utterly bleak and desolate, and it's a first person puzzle game of all things…
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Jan 16, 2020 15:12
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"Ham sandwich race" was creatively insulting. Just beat it with the "Thinker" archtype and started doing well after getting the "Guillaume le Million" thought helped smooth over my lack of psyche stats. I ended up finishing it with Cuno becoming a junior detective and had a good laugh at that ending, and the phasmid part was magical when it happened. I was sad that I didn't get to talk to Kim, as he got hit by the mercenary's bullet. All of that stuff at the end about how you were a gym teacher and were happy, then your ex put impossibly high living standards that your salary couldn't match plus the stress of the job she wanted you to have. During most of the game I was trying to figure out what she did that made Harry turn out the way he did, and the explanation during the Dolores Dei dream summarizing the answer: "she was middle class" really hit harder than I thought it would. I felt like it should have been just a *little* bit longer, as the Tribunal part, as well as the fallout from it was over too fast and the game was pushing me to finish things off. It was such a good game and I'll definitely want to replay this as another copotype in the future. I am curious to know how much stuff I missed, which is probably a *lot*. I am curious about one thing that was ambiguous: did your character try to conceive children with your ex and she had miscarriages, or did she actually abort your child because you are a member of the working class? That part seemed exceedingly cruel if it was the latter. Entorwellian fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 15:16
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Entorwellian posted:I am curious about one thing that was ambiguous:
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Jan 16, 2020 16:17
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Entorwellian posted:I am curious about one thing that was ambiguous: did your character try to conceive children with your ex and she had miscarriages, or did she actually abort your child because you are a member of the working class? That part seemed exceedingly cruel if it was the latter. it's almost definitely not the latter. "dolores" is the personification of harry's madonna/whore complex over dora ingerlund, and very little of what she says is an accurate depiction of the woman herself. it's why dolores keeps pleading with harry to stop thinking of her this way and let her be an actual human in between her bouts of matter-of-fact pity and sneering animus. class issues did play a part in their breakup, but harry's blown out every part of their relationship into this towering, world-ending thing that's eaten up all the remaining space in his head, hence why he tried to drink himself into Nowhereland to get rid of it all
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Jan 16, 2020 16:21
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Oxxidation posted:it's almost definitely not the latter. "dolores" is the personification of harry's madonna/whore complex over dora ingerlund, and very little of what she says is an accurate depiction of the woman herself. it's why dolores keeps pleading with harry to stop thinking of her this way and let her be an actual human in between her bouts of matter-of-fact pity and sneering animus. class issues did play a part in their breakup, but harry's blown out every part of their relationship into this towering, world-ending thing that's eaten up all the remaining space in his head, hence why he tried to drink himself into Nowhereland to get rid of it all Ah. That puts it into perspective a bit more. I really like how the very few instances of combat are done in the game too, where you are having to make choices second by second and things are happening fast. I've never played anything quite like it, except for Planescape: Torment. Disco Elysium really feels like a breath of fresh air; it's so innovative in every area that I think other RPG's are going to have to play catch-up.
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Jan 16, 2020 16:57
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Oxxidation posted:it's almost definitely not the latter. "dolores" is the personification of harry's madonna/whore complex over dora ingerlund, and very little of what she says is an accurate depiction of the woman herself. it's why dolores keeps pleading with harry to stop thinking of her this way and let her be an actual human in between her bouts of matter-of-fact pity and sneering animus. class issues did play a part in their breakup, but harry's blown out every part of their relationship into this towering, world-ending thing that's eaten up all the remaining space in his head, hence why he tried to drink himself into Nowhereland to get rid of it all Not that anyone in this thread is doing it but I wish people would think a bit more about unreliable narrators and subject perspective when it comes to understanding things like this. People really seem to struggle with ideologies being explicitly present in this game (and they're never quite 1:1 with our world either) or that the main character may who has amnesia might not be the most reliable source of information.
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Jan 16, 2020 17:13
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I think turning combat into a text-based system actually makes a lot of sense for giving fights weight. In a game like Dragon Age, every battle is essentially a puzzle with only one allowable outcome -- you win. Your health, exp, and number of items may be different at the end, but it's straightforward, and as a consequence there's a bit less tension, because every time you fail, you reload, unless you're doing an iron man run. Plus combat tends to involve near identical fights with near identical enemies Combat in Disco Elysium is much more dramatic, because it's rare, and it's based around a range of possible decisions where every one of them can change the trajectory of the fight. Plus, having them be based around chance modified by your skill adds to the tension and makes your build a lot more consequential. If you put points into Intelligence instead of strength in Baldur's gate, it just means you get to be a cool rear end mage instead of a fighter. In Disco Elysium, it means you're more likely to fumble with your gun when lives are on the line.
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Jan 16, 2020 17:14
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Dreylad posted:Not that anyone in this thread is doing it but I wish people would think a bit more about unreliable narrators and subject perspective when it comes to understanding things like this. People really seem to struggle with ideologies being explicitly present in this game (and they're never quite 1:1 with our world either) or that the main character may who has amnesia might not be the most reliable source of information. There's no outside source for confirmation, the other end of this is elevating an interpretation of events as being canonical simply because it's the interpretation you like.
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Jan 16, 2020 18:39
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My interpretation is Harry's ex shot JFK.
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Jan 16, 2020 18:42
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The signs are all there, you cowards
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Jan 16, 2020 18:44
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Antigravitas posted:Same. I appreciate that it is actually mature, or adult, whereas most "mature" content is depressingly juvenile and superficial. Thanks for reminding me of how much I love that game. The bleakness of the world being presented for you is amazing, my favorite moment is the audio log where the lead scientist realizes the simulation is wrong, but the disease is killing her already and she's too tired to figure out how to fix it. The tired sorrow in her knowing that, after all that, she probably failed, is one of the must gut wrenching moments I've experienced in gaming.
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Jan 16, 2020 22:40
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Just finished the tribunal... I failed all of the red checks except the one to save Kim. A Hardie Boy and Titus are presumably dead. What other possible outcomes are there? I luckily saved right before it started, but dont really want to redo it over again until my next playthrough. Re: Ruby and Klassje I let both of them go. I didnt really feel the need to arrest either of them just for lying or staging the lynching. Dont believe either killed him. Kim got upset I didnt arrest them. Two questions? 1. Would arresting Klassje have changed the tribunal? If so, how? 2. I assume the only thing gained by arresting Ruby (if she allows you to without killing herself) is that you are somehow protecting her from being hunted by the mob? I don't think Ive ever been so nervous selecting dialogue options in a video game. Kudos to the design team.
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Jan 17, 2020 00:31
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TommyGun85 posted:Just finished the tribunal... Possible outcomes: Perfect Tribunal: All 3 Mercs dead - Harry shot once, Kim unharmed. Titus and one Hardie boy dead. Mediocre Tribunal: More Hardie boys die - if you fail a pre shootout red check you can get Elizabeth shot. Harry shot twice. One or two Mercs still alive. Terrible Tribunal: Elizabeth and several Hardie boys dead. Kim hospitalized due to being shot. Harry shot twice. Two mercs still alive. If you earned The Cuno's respect he joins you as a replacement companion. Re: Your Questions If you arrest Klaasje then she won't leave town and leave behind a reconstructed trajectory for the bullet. No effect on the Tribunal whatsoever, though Kim seems a bit more optimistic after the Tribunal that they still have Klaasje in custody. Ruby cannot be arrested. The two outcomes is that Ruby runs for the wind or shoots herself. If you let her go without loving with the machine/talking her down from suicide then Kim is a bit negative. He's a bit more understanding if Ruby threatened suicide. If Ruby commits suicide you have to store her body in her sleeping bag and Kim counts her as one of the total casualties from the investigation. He is most definitely not happy about her being dead, even if it was self inflicted. Ruby never really shows up or is mentioned after her escape/suicide. Arianya fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 00:46
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Conot posted:Possible outcomes: This is incorrect. Titus can survive the Tribunal.
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Jan 17, 2020 00:47
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Horizon Burning posted:This is incorrect. Titus can survive the Tribunal. I'm surprised - I actually reloaded the Tribunal a few times because I hosed up a really high chance roll. What's the condition on getting him to survive?
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Jan 17, 2020 00:49
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Conot posted:I'm surprised - I actually reloaded the Tribunal a few times because I hosed up a really high chance roll. What's the condition on getting him to survive? that's a good question because seeing these posts made me do a double take because i got elizabeth shot and killed and most of the hardie boys died but titus 100% lived edit: i had all but titus and one other hardie boy die, elizabeth died, harry only shot once, kim unharmed, all three mercenaries dead
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Jan 17, 2020 00:52
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Conot posted:I'm surprised - I actually reloaded the Tribunal a few times because I hosed up a really high chance roll. What's the condition on getting him to survive? I did it by shooting Kortanaer in the face on the first try.
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Jan 17, 2020 00:53
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Also for the record some of the individual outcomes there aren't linked, so you can end up with a final result that's a mix of those 3 states listed. (In my playthrough Kim and I got shot, but only 3 of the Hardies died and all the mercs died.
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Jan 17, 2020 00:54
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Conot posted:Possible outcomes: If you do arrest her, does she point you in the direction of the island? What if you arent able to find Ruby? Is there another trigger for the Tribunal or do you have to find her? I thought someone mentioned finishing the game without ever running into her?
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Jan 17, 2020 01:01
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TommyGun85 posted:If you do arrest her, does she point you in the direction of the island? If you arrest Klaasje she kinda looks downtrodden during the arrest like her life is over, but she doesn't resist or offer any info. Kim disappears for the rest of the current day to take her in. While the fact she's in custody is referenced, no intel that I could see came from it. So far as I know Ruby is a hard requirement - hence why the game feeds you so many rerolls for the Shivers check to find her den. I guess theoretically you could softlock if you hosed up all your rerolls and ran out of skillpoints? But the game makes it very hard to get to that point, since the bonuses you get to the roll make even low PHYS characters roll in the 90s IIRC. But I never really ran up against a wall with Ruby, so possibly there is an alternative another goon can comment on? Arianya fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 01:19
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Conot posted:If you arrest Klaasje she kinda looks downtrodden during the arrest like her life is over, but she doesn't resist or offer any info. Kim disappears for the rest of the current day to take her in. While the fact she's in custody is referenced, no intel that I could see came from it. How do you get tipped to the island if you arrest her? Also, I found her den by 'teleporting' to the roof. Are there other ways?
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Jan 17, 2020 01:23
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TommyGun85 posted:How do you get tipped to the island if you arrest her? It's less tipped and more process of elimination - you and Kim discuss the case, and re-examine the shot window, and come to the conclusion the only place uninvestigated that the shot could have come from is the island, and that also lines up with no one having heard a gunshot, so even though it seems unlikely, you go there. Teleporting to the roof is how I got in - but Shivers roll was the one that tipped me off she was in that building and kicked off trying to get in - possibly there are other ways to get tipped off?
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Jan 17, 2020 01:26
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TommyGun85 posted:
That's an easy one: look down
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Jan 17, 2020 01:29
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Mr. Dick posted:That's an easy one: look down this is actually the only way to find this if you're playing as a dog
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Jan 17, 2020 01:36
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Conot posted:I'm surprised - I actually reloaded the Tribunal a few times because I hosed up a really high chance roll. What's the condition on getting him to survive? Don't bother trying to talk them down, even just to distract them. Shoot first.
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Jan 17, 2020 01:48
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Don't bother trying to talk them down, even just to distract them. Shoot first. Distracting them increased your red check percentage though.
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Jan 17, 2020 01:49
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You can do a little at least. But mostly having high Motorics, being high as a kite lets you do it regardless.
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Jan 17, 2020 01:51
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